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	<title>Comments on: Thursday Vote; Friday Meetup</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Brody</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-24374</link>
		<dc:creator>Brody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-24374</guid>
		<description>3gB9v7lX3r8te</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3gB9v7lX3r8te</p>
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		<title>By: John Jensen</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5964</link>
		<dc:creator>John Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5964</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if we should bash on Tony, he sounds like a good guy who knows his stuff.

I think with the First Hill Connector, ST is keeping its word to serve that community as well as connect thousands more around the streetcar project to the Light Rail stops in both Chinatown/ID and Capitol Hill. It would have been better if we knew this when approving Sound Move, but this agency is different and better than the one in 1996. We won&#039;t see the same issues crop up when ST2 passes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if we should bash on Tony, he sounds like a good guy who knows his stuff.</p>
<p>I think with the First Hill Connector, ST is keeping its word to serve that community as well as connect thousands more around the streetcar project to the Light Rail stops in both Chinatown/ID and Capitol Hill. It would have been better if we knew this when approving Sound Move, but this agency is different and better than the one in 1996. We won&#8217;t see the same issues crop up when ST2 passes.</p>
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		<title>By: EnemyAtTheGates</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5961</link>
		<dc:creator>EnemyAtTheGates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5961</guid>
		<description>&quot;A more legitimate concern is the Sound Transit staff, who would be out of a job if the agency were to dissolve. This is the same staff that convinced the board to cut out the First Hill Link stop.&quot;

Tony, those people are called engineers.  They are like doctors or scientists.  You may not always like what they have to say - but using the George W Bush approach, and writing off the advice of professionals...that&#039;s not a smart thing to do.  ST took the lessons they learned in a very difficult geotech environment under Beacon Hill, and they applied it to an even more challenging situation with an even deeper First Hill station.  Apparently, learning from experience is now a bad thing?

&quot;Now it is possible that the state will authorize the creation of a new regional road building agency and transfer sound transit’s taxing authority to it, but the legislature would almost certainly require that the public approve the creation of such an entity at the ballot box, so we’d have plenty of opportunity to campaign against it then.&quot;

Tony, continually fighting against bad roads-oriented measures (the inevitable result of the Stanton / Discovery Institute regional governance &quot;reform&quot; effort) doesn&#039;t move us forward.  Not an inch.  They didn&#039;t build the excellent multi-modal systems in Vancouver and Portland by fighting off bad things...

One step forward and two steps backwards does not equal progress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A more legitimate concern is the Sound Transit staff, who would be out of a job if the agency were to dissolve. This is the same staff that convinced the board to cut out the First Hill Link stop.&#8221;</p>
<p>Tony, those people are called engineers.  They are like doctors or scientists.  You may not always like what they have to say &#8211; but using the George W Bush approach, and writing off the advice of professionals&#8230;that&#8217;s not a smart thing to do.  ST took the lessons they learned in a very difficult geotech environment under Beacon Hill, and they applied it to an even more challenging situation with an even deeper First Hill station.  Apparently, learning from experience is now a bad thing?</p>
<p>&#8220;Now it is possible that the state will authorize the creation of a new regional road building agency and transfer sound transit’s taxing authority to it, but the legislature would almost certainly require that the public approve the creation of such an entity at the ballot box, so we’d have plenty of opportunity to campaign against it then.&#8221;</p>
<p>Tony, continually fighting against bad roads-oriented measures (the inevitable result of the Stanton / Discovery Institute regional governance &#8220;reform&#8221; effort) doesn&#8217;t move us forward.  Not an inch.  They didn&#8217;t build the excellent multi-modal systems in Vancouver and Portland by fighting off bad things&#8230;</p>
<p>One step forward and two steps backwards does not equal progress.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5911</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5911</guid>
		<description>Hell yes. It was a $350 million station that would have lost us a $750 million grant - we saved $1.1 billion and lost only 5,000 daily boardings. U Link will get us 70,000 daily boardings in 2020 without it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hell yes. It was a $350 million station that would have lost us a $750 million grant &#8211; we saved $1.1 billion and lost only 5,000 daily boardings. U Link will get us 70,000 daily boardings in 2020 without it!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5908</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5908</guid>
		<description>So, pointing out the Governor appointing a commission of anti-transit folks to recommend dissolving ST and replacing it with an elected agency... is a scare tactic? Um, yeah. It&#039;s pretty common knowledge that (some of) the legislature wants Sound Transit&#039;s banked East Link money to help replace 520.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, pointing out the Governor appointing a commission of anti-transit folks to recommend dissolving ST and replacing it with an elected agency&#8230; is a scare tactic? Um, yeah. It&#8217;s pretty common knowledge that (some of) the legislature wants Sound Transit&#8217;s banked East Link money to help replace 520.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon K.</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5901</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 05:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5901</guid>
		<description>Tony, dropping the First Hill station was a sound engineering decision to avoid unneeded risk that could put the whole project in jeopardy. Please, get over it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony, dropping the First Hill station was a sound engineering decision to avoid unneeded risk that could put the whole project in jeopardy. Please, get over it!</p>
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		<title>By: Oran</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5886</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5886</guid>
		<description>I love the idea of a wiki and would gladly contribute to it as much as I can. Also, in lieu of an Seattle Transit Wiki we can go improve the ones on Wikipedia and then link to the STW for more detailed information.

I&#039;m coming to the meetup this Friday. I&#039;ll try to come up with some ideas but I won&#039;t be surprised at all if any of you have already figured out the same thing. At least I&#039;ll be the cheerleader.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the idea of a wiki and would gladly contribute to it as much as I can. Also, in lieu of an Seattle Transit Wiki we can go improve the ones on Wikipedia and then link to the STW for more detailed information.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m coming to the meetup this Friday. I&#8217;ll try to come up with some ideas but I won&#8217;t be surprised at all if any of you have already figured out the same thing. At least I&#8217;ll be the cheerleader.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5885</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5885</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s clarify a couple things:

First, the disillusion of sound transit does not in any way affect the employment status of anyone on the Sound Transit Board of Directors. Each of them is an elected official that will continue to be an elected official until they are voted out of office by their direct constituents.

A more legitimate concern is the Sound Transit staff, who would be out of a job if the agency were to dissolve. This is the same staff that convinced the board to cut out the First Hill Link stop.

Second, a failure of this measure does not necessarily mean the disillusion of Sound Transit. Though a failure might make such an eventuality more likely, it would take an act of the legislature to dissolve the agency.

Third, the failure of this measure, or even the disillusion of sound transit does not necessarily mean that the money will be spent on roads. Sound Transit is asking the voters to approve new taxes. If the measure fails, the money will be left in the hands of the tax payers, not in some transportation account that road warriors can tap. Now it is possible that the state will authorize the creation of a new regional road building agency and transfer sound transit&#039;s taxing authority to it, but the legislature would almost certainly require that the public approve the creation of such an entity at the ballot box, so we&#039;d have plenty of opportunity to campaign against it then.

If this measure fails, any number of things could happen, and one of those things is that a new better transit plan will be proposed. Recall that everyone on this blog warned that if Proposition 1 failed that we would never get another chance to build light rail in this region again. Of course, another possibility is that we will shift spending to road construction. It could go either way.

I am not saying I&#039;m opposed to this plan, nor am I saying I&#039;m for it, but the scare tactics only undermine our credibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s clarify a couple things:</p>
<p>First, the disillusion of sound transit does not in any way affect the employment status of anyone on the Sound Transit Board of Directors. Each of them is an elected official that will continue to be an elected official until they are voted out of office by their direct constituents.</p>
<p>A more legitimate concern is the Sound Transit staff, who would be out of a job if the agency were to dissolve. This is the same staff that convinced the board to cut out the First Hill Link stop.</p>
<p>Second, a failure of this measure does not necessarily mean the disillusion of Sound Transit. Though a failure might make such an eventuality more likely, it would take an act of the legislature to dissolve the agency.</p>
<p>Third, the failure of this measure, or even the disillusion of sound transit does not necessarily mean that the money will be spent on roads. Sound Transit is asking the voters to approve new taxes. If the measure fails, the money will be left in the hands of the tax payers, not in some transportation account that road warriors can tap. Now it is possible that the state will authorize the creation of a new regional road building agency and transfer sound transit&#8217;s taxing authority to it, but the legislature would almost certainly require that the public approve the creation of such an entity at the ballot box, so we&#8217;d have plenty of opportunity to campaign against it then.</p>
<p>If this measure fails, any number of things could happen, and one of those things is that a new better transit plan will be proposed. Recall that everyone on this blog warned that if Proposition 1 failed that we would never get another chance to build light rail in this region again. Of course, another possibility is that we will shift spending to road construction. It could go either way.</p>
<p>I am not saying I&#8217;m opposed to this plan, nor am I saying I&#8217;m for it, but the scare tactics only undermine our credibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Ferris</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5877</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Ferris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5877</guid>
		<description>STB meetups are always weekends I&#039;m out of town...

I&#039;d definitely like to help.  I&#039;m admittedly not as well-versed in transit as some... which leads me to an idea:

I think a Seattle Transit Wiki might be a useful resource.  Specifically, STB readers and other interested parties would construct a living document that outlines Seattle transportation projects, issues, players, history, etc, ideally in a neutral point-of-view ala Wikipedia (I said ideally).

All the projects both past and present, funded and failed, with a different acronym for each, start to run together in my head.  Think of how the average voter must approach this stuff.  This would be a good resource for voters who are going to have a lot of questions about the pros-and-cons of the transit proposals they are voting on this fall.

Also, I think you&#039;re more likely to get general internet linkage and google cred for a general resource wiki.  There will be a time and place for &quot;rail is awesome&quot; sites, but I think the wiki could be a great start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>STB meetups are always weekends I&#8217;m out of town&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d definitely like to help.  I&#8217;m admittedly not as well-versed in transit as some&#8230; which leads me to an idea:</p>
<p>I think a Seattle Transit Wiki might be a useful resource.  Specifically, STB readers and other interested parties would construct a living document that outlines Seattle transportation projects, issues, players, history, etc, ideally in a neutral point-of-view ala Wikipedia (I said ideally).</p>
<p>All the projects both past and present, funded and failed, with a different acronym for each, start to run together in my head.  Think of how the average voter must approach this stuff.  This would be a good resource for voters who are going to have a lot of questions about the pros-and-cons of the transit proposals they are voting on this fall.</p>
<p>Also, I think you&#8217;re more likely to get general internet linkage and google cred for a general resource wiki.  There will be a time and place for &#8220;rail is awesome&#8221; sites, but I think the wiki could be a great start.</p>
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		<title>By: ericn</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5875</link>
		<dc:creator>ericn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5875</guid>
		<description>I really want to come to this meetup, but unfortunately it&#039;s at the same time as the Capitol Hill Block Party! It sounds like it should be an interesting discussion though, so I&#039;ll look for a post about it and any related volunteer opportunities the next day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really want to come to this meetup, but unfortunately it&#8217;s at the same time as the Capitol Hill Block Party! It sounds like it should be an interesting discussion though, so I&#8217;ll look for a post about it and any related volunteer opportunities the next day.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5864</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5864</guid>
		<description>Next November. Larry Phillips will hopefully run against him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Next November. Larry Phillips will hopefully run against him.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5863</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5863</guid>
		<description>Thanks! I just saw it and wrote a post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks! I just saw it and wrote a post.</p>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5862</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5862</guid>
		<description>Sims advocating reducing the number of local stops and very slightly increasing capacity? Imagine that.

With Light Rail + Feeder service, you get all your local stops AND a rapid dedicated collector service. That&#039;s getting your cake and eating it, too.

When&#039;s the next KC Executive election? November?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sims advocating reducing the number of local stops and very slightly increasing capacity? Imagine that.</p>
<p>With Light Rail + Feeder service, you get all your local stops AND a rapid dedicated collector service. That&#8217;s getting your cake and eating it, too.</p>
<p>When&#8217;s the next KC Executive election? November?</p>
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		<title>By: phantom</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5861</link>
		<dc:creator>phantom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5861</guid>
		<description>Mayor Nickels even gives this blog a shoutout!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mayor Nickels even gives this blog a shoutout!</p>
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		<title>By: phantom</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5860</link>
		<dc:creator>phantom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5860</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Ron Sims, the Seattle Times just posted two op-ed pieces on ST Expansion, one by Greg Nickels and one by Sims.

Guess where Sims thinks the ST money would be better spent?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Ron Sims, the Seattle Times just posted two op-ed pieces on ST Expansion, one by Greg Nickels and one by Sims.</p>
<p>Guess where Sims thinks the ST money would be better spent?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5851</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5851</guid>
		<description>I think Ladenburg and von Reichbauer are onboard. We can probably safely leave Roberts to Reardon - I doubt Reardon and Dawson want Snohomish to appear split, and I think Reardon will ensure Roberts&#039; vote.

Hammond and Sims aren&#039;t going to change their minds. Hammond is on orders from Gregoire, and Sims has just gone insane - which is why we&#039;re going to replace him with Larry Phillips next year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Ladenburg and von Reichbauer are onboard. We can probably safely leave Roberts to Reardon &#8211; I doubt Reardon and Dawson want Snohomish to appear split, and I think Reardon will ensure Roberts&#8217; vote.</p>
<p>Hammond and Sims aren&#8217;t going to change their minds. Hammond is on orders from Gregoire, and Sims has just gone insane &#8211; which is why we&#8217;re going to replace him with Larry Phillips next year.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5850</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5850</guid>
		<description>I hope you can help. :)

The campaign this year is going to need all the support it can get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope you can help. :)</p>
<p>The campaign this year is going to need all the support it can get.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5849</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5849</guid>
		<description>Indeed, and this year a bit more of the ST plan does address immediate needs, adding bus service across the board and hopefully increasing the length of Sounder trains and the number of runs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, and this year a bit more of the ST plan does address immediate needs, adding bus service across the board and hopefully increasing the length of Sounder trains and the number of runs.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5848</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5848</guid>
		<description>As we&#039;re not the campaign, I don&#039;t really want to invite newspaper staff, Barnett, etc. I&#039;m sure Joni Earl will show up eventually, but let&#039;s take some action first to make ourselves visible! Bus Chick knows we meet, and I&#039;d love it if she showed up, that&#039;s a great idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As we&#8217;re not the campaign, I don&#8217;t really want to invite newspaper staff, Barnett, etc. I&#8217;m sure Joni Earl will show up eventually, but let&#8217;s take some action first to make ourselves visible! Bus Chick knows we meet, and I&#8217;d love it if she showed up, that&#8217;s a great idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Schroeder</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/22/thursday-vote-friday-meetup/#comment-5847</link>
		<dc:creator>Schroeder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=921#comment-5847</guid>
		<description>&quot;Who says there’s no good news? About time these “visionaries” were put out to pasture or into the hard-core unemployed group.&quot;

I am not exactly sure what the term &quot;visionaries&quot; is supposed to represent in the phrase above? It almost seems like it attacks the notion to have progressive ideas about expanding rail transit throughout our region, which is the primary focus of ST. Or is it supposed to mean that those ST board members who don&#039;t vote for this measure ought to be put out to pasture? I am just not sure. 

At any rate, we really can&#039;t afford to let ST dissolve or be replaced with officials who will shift resources and funds to roads over transit. 

I really hope this package passes in the fall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Who says there’s no good news? About time these “visionaries” were put out to pasture or into the hard-core unemployed group.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am not exactly sure what the term &#8220;visionaries&#8221; is supposed to represent in the phrase above? It almost seems like it attacks the notion to have progressive ideas about expanding rail transit throughout our region, which is the primary focus of ST. Or is it supposed to mean that those ST board members who don&#8217;t vote for this measure ought to be put out to pasture? I am just not sure. </p>
<p>At any rate, we really can&#8217;t afford to let ST dissolve or be replaced with officials who will shift resources and funds to roads over transit. </p>
<p>I really hope this package passes in the fall.</p>
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