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	<title>Comments on: A Re-introduction</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Legislative Preview - Seattle Transit Blog</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-87053</link>
		<dc:creator>Legislative Preview - Seattle Transit Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-87053</guid>
		<description>[...] the Transportation Choices Coalition is probably the one organization most closely aligned with the principles of STB.  The man they send to Olympia to take all the bullets is Policy Director Bill LaBorde, who will [...]</description>
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[...] the Transportation Choices Coalition is probably the one organization most closely aligned with the principles of STB.  The man they send to Olympia to take all the bullets is Policy Director Bill LaBorde, who will [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Seattle Transit Blog &#187; Endorsements</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-13572</link>
		<dc:creator>Seattle Transit Blog &#187; Endorsements</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 03:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-13572</guid>
		<description>[...] A Re-introduction [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[...] A Re-introduction [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Seattle Transit Blog &#187; Nominations</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-12962</link>
		<dc:creator>Seattle Transit Blog &#187; Nominations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 02:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-12962</guid>
		<description>[...] A Re-introduction [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[...] A Re-introduction [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Seattle Transit Blog &#187; Times Fact-Checking</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-10042</link>
		<dc:creator>Seattle Transit Blog &#187; Times Fact-Checking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-10042</guid>
		<description>[...] A Re-introduction [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[...] A Re-introduction [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Martin H. Duke</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-6019</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin H. Duke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-6019</guid>
		<description>Brad,

Link to one -- really, just one -- example of me launching a personal attack, rather than a criticism of their arguments and policy prescriptions.

You&#039;ll probably find one -- I&#039;m not perfect -- but once you go through some, I think you&#039;ll find out how off base your comment is.</description>
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Brad,</p>
<p>Link to one &#8212; really, just one &#8212; example of me launching a personal attack, rather than a criticism of their arguments and policy prescriptions.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll probably find one &#8212; I&#8217;m not perfect &#8212; but once you go through some, I think you&#8217;ll find out how off base your comment is.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-6003</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-6003</guid>
		<description>Sound Transit doesn&#039;t spend on advertising - the campaign is totally separate, and you&#039;ll be hearing from them soon.

Sound Transit does open their projects up to bidders. That&#039;s how contractors win contracts for the various parts of our transit system!

And this package includes big increases in bus service in the near term as well as light rail for the long term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Sound Transit doesn&#8217;t spend on advertising &#8211; the campaign is totally separate, and you&#8217;ll be hearing from them soon.</p>
<p>Sound Transit does open their projects up to bidders. That&#8217;s how contractors win contracts for the various parts of our transit system!</p>
<p>And this package includes big increases in bus service in the near term as well as light rail for the long term.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-6002</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-6002</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ll hear some about it if you come to the meetup on Friday!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
You&#8217;ll hear some about it if you come to the meetup on Friday!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-6001</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-6001</guid>
		<description>&quot;As a percentage of income&quot; is pretty different than use &quot;as a percentage of daily miles traveled&quot;. You&#039;re basically saying that because concrete is expensive, they&#039;re building a lot of highways. They&#039;re really not. Look at Curitiba on google maps! Their one highway through the city is two lanes each way. A lot of the snaking concrete you&#039;re seeing is their BRT system.

I&#039;m not belittling them. Their system worked. It just can&#039;t work here, because we aren&#039;t top-down, and that is a requirement for their planning methods.</description>
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&#8220;As a percentage of income&#8221; is pretty different than use &#8220;as a percentage of daily miles traveled&#8221;. You&#8217;re basically saying that because concrete is expensive, they&#8217;re building a lot of highways. They&#8217;re really not. Look at Curitiba on google maps! Their one highway through the city is two lanes each way. A lot of the snaking concrete you&#8217;re seeing is their BRT system.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not belittling them. Their system worked. It just can&#8217;t work here, because we aren&#8217;t top-down, and that is a requirement for their planning methods.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: chh</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-5997</link>
		<dc:creator>chh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-5997</guid>
		<description>yes, cheaper labor costs, but that is also proportionate to smaller government budgets. lower wages (labor costs) = less tax revenue (income/sales/property) = smaller government budget for things like transit. so no, that is not a great point.</description>
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yes, cheaper labor costs, but that is also proportionate to smaller government budgets. lower wages (labor costs) = less tax revenue (income/sales/property) = smaller government budget for things like transit. so no, that is not a great point.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-5989</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-5989</guid>
		<description>You convince them by mentioning it costs less than $6 a month per person on average.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
You convince them by mentioning it costs less than $6 a month per person on average.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-5988</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-5988</guid>
		<description>Consumers will still have to use roads to head to entertainment centers, shopping, groceries, family functions and such. Reducing options is willfully creating dependence on automobiles and environmentally unsound.

Also, do you realize what sort of costs are associated with getting started with Telecommuting? Ongoing costs are lower than the costs associated with in-office employment, but the starting and capital costs are high enough that you create a situation similar to the one you&#039;re proposing will happen with light rail-- lack of support due to delayed results.

Now, with your mention of projects running up against overruns and being late, have you noticed that a lot of recent rail projects have come in under the wire and a lot of recent bus projects have incurred heavy overruns? My key example is Valley Metro, Phoenix, Arizona&#039;s light rail system. They faced several problems like cracked steel but are still on time and on budget.

Don&#039;t forget that Metro is currently charging 0.9% sales tax and their Transit Now! Initiative is taking FIFTEEN YEARS to be completed with a ridership increase of only 40-50k.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Consumers will still have to use roads to head to entertainment centers, shopping, groceries, family functions and such. Reducing options is willfully creating dependence on automobiles and environmentally unsound.</p>
<p>Also, do you realize what sort of costs are associated with getting started with Telecommuting? Ongoing costs are lower than the costs associated with in-office employment, but the starting and capital costs are high enough that you create a situation similar to the one you&#8217;re proposing will happen with light rail&#8211; lack of support due to delayed results.</p>
<p>Now, with your mention of projects running up against overruns and being late, have you noticed that a lot of recent rail projects have come in under the wire and a lot of recent bus projects have incurred heavy overruns? My key example is Valley Metro, Phoenix, Arizona&#8217;s light rail system. They faced several problems like cracked steel but are still on time and on budget.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget that Metro is currently charging 0.9% sales tax and their Transit Now! Initiative is taking FIFTEEN YEARS to be completed with a ridership increase of only 40-50k.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: C Burger</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-5986</link>
		<dc:creator>C Burger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-5986</guid>
		<description>Been following with interest the last several months.  I would vote for a rail system for mostly ideological reasons, but it will probably come down to money for most voters.  How do you convince people to put money in for something 10-15 yrs in the future, especially in difficult financial times?  If sound transit puts this on the ballot in November, where do advertising dollars come from?  How much have they spent in the past?  Is Sound Transit completely publicly funded?  Why not open the project up to bidders?  Lots of other questions, but I&#039;ll save those for later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Been following with interest the last several months.  I would vote for a rail system for mostly ideological reasons, but it will probably come down to money for most voters.  How do you convince people to put money in for something 10-15 yrs in the future, especially in difficult financial times?  If sound transit puts this on the ballot in November, where do advertising dollars come from?  How much have they spent in the past?  Is Sound Transit completely publicly funded?  Why not open the project up to bidders?  Lots of other questions, but I&#8217;ll save those for later.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Don S</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-5984</link>
		<dc:creator>Don S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-5984</guid>
		<description>The best reason to not vote for the light rail initiative has to do with the real need if we want to effect a positive impact on climate change.  Lack of light rail results in more difficult commutes, and anything that motivates people to either work at jobs closer to home (move closer to work) or replace physical commuting with virtual commuting (telecommuting) is a positive for us all.

On the other hand, asking taxpayers to fund very expensive projects with projected completion dates over a decade away is extremely unlikely to get support.  We all have seen that the initial projections are always overrun on cost and completion, and that the usual result is more expensive, delivered late, and without all the promised features.  The result is that we taxpayers have lost any confidence in the local governments&#039; (any of them) ability to deliver on their promises, and promises made for things 10 years out are fantasy at best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
The best reason to not vote for the light rail initiative has to do with the real need if we want to effect a positive impact on climate change.  Lack of light rail results in more difficult commutes, and anything that motivates people to either work at jobs closer to home (move closer to work) or replace physical commuting with virtual commuting (telecommuting) is a positive for us all.</p>
<p>On the other hand, asking taxpayers to fund very expensive projects with projected completion dates over a decade away is extremely unlikely to get support.  We all have seen that the initial projections are always overrun on cost and completion, and that the usual result is more expensive, delivered late, and without all the promised features.  The result is that we taxpayers have lost any confidence in the local governments&#8217; (any of them) ability to deliver on their promises, and promises made for things 10 years out are fantasy at best.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: The Overhead Wire</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-5983</link>
		<dc:creator>The Overhead Wire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-5983</guid>
		<description>Houston did not reject years of BRT planning for LRT.  The people of Houston voted FOR light rail in 2003.  Yet Tom Delay and John Culbertson told them they would only get them money for BRT so they changed.  But when they modeled the Network of 5 LRT lines instead of the BRT they were forced to plan (which was going to be rail ready BRT with rails in the ground for a quick conversion), they got the needed ridership that would allow them to get a match from the FTA for LRT.  Just before that, Tom Delay lost his re-election because of skulduggery and Culbertson lost effectiveness when the democrats came into congress.  No one ever wanted BRT there, it was forced on them by Republican ideologues.  

Toronto is also planning for 5 new spine light rail lines.  It&#039;s also one of the few cities that did not get rid of its streetcar networks, and look, its a place that people often list as most livable.

As to all the BRT points, Curitiba is quite a remarkable place.  They, like the Orange Line in LA, are at capacity.  Why not just do it right and with electricity the first time?  Why waste people&#039;s time and money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Houston did not reject years of BRT planning for LRT.  The people of Houston voted FOR light rail in 2003.  Yet Tom Delay and John Culbertson told them they would only get them money for BRT so they changed.  But when they modeled the Network of 5 LRT lines instead of the BRT they were forced to plan (which was going to be rail ready BRT with rails in the ground for a quick conversion), they got the needed ridership that would allow them to get a match from the FTA for LRT.  Just before that, Tom Delay lost his re-election because of skulduggery and Culbertson lost effectiveness when the democrats came into congress.  No one ever wanted BRT there, it was forced on them by Republican ideologues.  </p>
<p>Toronto is also planning for 5 new spine light rail lines.  It&#8217;s also one of the few cities that did not get rid of its streetcar networks, and look, its a place that people often list as most livable.</p>
<p>As to all the BRT points, Curitiba is quite a remarkable place.  They, like the Orange Line in LA, are at capacity.  Why not just do it right and with electricity the first time?  Why waste people&#8217;s time and money.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Joe G</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-5981</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-5981</guid>
		<description>Ok.  I look forward to it!</description>
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Ok.  I look forward to it!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: John Jensen</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-5980</link>
		<dc:creator>John Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-5980</guid>
		<description>Not yet, Joe G, but let&#039;s get organized here soon! Stay tuned...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Not yet, Joe G, but let&#8217;s get organized here soon! Stay tuned&#8230;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Joe G</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-5979</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-5979</guid>
		<description>I was just curious as to wether anyone here participates in any sort of activisim on behalf transit?  I am very interested.  Please someone get back to me.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I was just curious as to wether anyone here participates in any sort of activisim on behalf transit?  I am very interested.  Please someone get back to me.</p>
<p>Thanks.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-5976</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-5976</guid>
		<description>Ken Schram gave the Schrammie to Mayor Nickels for his piece. I admit it was snarky on the Mayor&#039;s part, but Ken (as always) regurgitates and reiterates the assertion that there&#039;s not enough bus service.

Can he help us find the mystery bus service Metro is implementing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Ken Schram gave the Schrammie to Mayor Nickels for his piece. I admit it was snarky on the Mayor&#8217;s part, but Ken (as always) regurgitates and reiterates the assertion that there&#8217;s not enough bus service.</p>
<p>Can he help us find the mystery bus service Metro is implementing?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: cjh</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-5975</link>
		<dc:creator>cjh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-5975</guid>
		<description>What the devil are you talking about?  Highway investment is huge in Brazil as a percentage of income and Curitiba is a middle income city (Bogota is even more well off) where car ownership is not out of the reach of the ordinary family.  And planners with similar or even more extensive tools in top-down planning environments have failed in spectacular ways so I do not understand the belittling of one of the great urban planning success stories of the last century.  Compare it to spectacular failures like Pyongyang or Brasilia or merely the unwieldy like Canberra or Quezon City or the monotony of industry oriented Wolfsburg, Nowa Huta or Belo Horizonte and it comes out looking pretty special to me.

Except that the enemies of transit want to use it as a cudgel so you need to tear it down instead of turning their arguments back at them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
What the devil are you talking about?  Highway investment is huge in Brazil as a percentage of income and Curitiba is a middle income city (Bogota is even more well off) where car ownership is not out of the reach of the ordinary family.  And planners with similar or even more extensive tools in top-down planning environments have failed in spectacular ways so I do not understand the belittling of one of the great urban planning success stories of the last century.  Compare it to spectacular failures like Pyongyang or Brasilia or merely the unwieldy like Canberra or Quezon City or the monotony of industry oriented Wolfsburg, Nowa Huta or Belo Horizonte and it comes out looking pretty special to me.</p>
<p>Except that the enemies of transit want to use it as a cudgel so you need to tear it down instead of turning their arguments back at them.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/07/23/a-re-introduction/#comment-5974</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=924#comment-5974</guid>
		<description>Yeah, great point. I think a bus is about half labor and half fuel/maintenance?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Yeah, great point. I think a bus is about half labor and half fuel/maintenance?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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