Comments on: $700 Billion…

By: Infrastructure improvements could help economy « Cambridge Rail

Infrastructure improvements could help economy « Cambridge Rail — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 04:59:48 +0000

[...] Express. Tags: $700 billion, investment, Northern Lights Express, transporation trackback In a September 29 article, Ben Schiendelman argues that we could do a whole lot of high-speed rail for $700 billion. [...]

By: Infrastructure improvements could help economy « Cambridge Rail

Infrastructure improvements could help economy « Cambridge Rail — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 04:59:48 +0000

By: Lloyd

Lloyd — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:15:21 +0000

Sadly, Congress and the GAO have never in 3 1/2 decades held Amtrak accountable for their very questionable accounting procedures, their bizarre allocations of the free money they’ve received from the Congress, and worst of all, the at best uneven customer service and food services on their trains. Further, b y he 1971 enabling legislation, the “host” railroads were meant to grant Amtrak trains priority in scheduling. Some have, many have not. A wrecking bar? NARP? No, an enabler of the worst kind, Ben. If you don’t already subscribe to This Week at Amtrak from URPA, please sign on – it’ll be an eye opener for all friends of passenger trains.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:13:39 +0000

We’ll do it. Let’s worry about it after we fund SOMETHING.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:12:57 +0000

They pay for themselves in economic benefit, just like most transportation investments do, especially things like light rail. The discussion never gets that far for your average joe voter, though.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:11:39 +0000

If you need a bulldozer and all you have is a wrecking bar, you still don’t throw out the wrecking bar. You just buy a bulldozer.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:10:32 +0000

Indeed, but beating the *best* driving time gets people’s attention. Folks assume they can drive better than everyone else, remember that.

By: joshuadf

joshuadf — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 19:53:44 +0000

Even current Amtrak speeds beat driving during rush hour or Sunday afternoon or some holidays. I-5 is a complete mess from Portland past Vancouver and all the way from Olympia to Seattle. Just take the Cascades (which starts in Portland), and not the Coast Starlight (which is often delayed).

By: Steve

Steve — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 19:18:43 +0000

Well, hey, now that we’ve gotten $6 million from the feds for Seattle-Portland rail (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008218067_railmoney01m.html), we’re only about 6.494 billion short of the 2023 plan.

In all seriousness, Amtrak Cascades speed and reliability improvements are incredibly valuable for the region and should easily pay for themselves. As a state, we should definitely be doing this.

By: Loren Petrich

Loren Petrich — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 09:39:55 +0000

Distances?
Redding – Eugene: 300 mi
Redding – Portland: 400 mi
Sacramento – Eugene: 450 mi
Sacramento – Portland: 550 mi

Between the distances and the mountains, it will be hard to justify building a California-Pacific-Northwest connecting line.

As to more recent proposals, the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative and the Ohio Hub proposal cover most of the Chicago Hub Network. The Ohio Hub also includes connections to Pittsburgh and Buffalo, thus connecting to the Keystone and Empire Corridors.

By: Loren Petrich

Loren Petrich — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 09:31:37 +0000

Distances?
Redding – Eugene: 300 mi
Redding – Portland: 400 mi
Sacramento – Eugene: 450 mi
Sacramento – Portland: 550 mi

Between the distances and the mountains, it will be hard to justify building a California-Pacific-Northwest connecting line.

The Chicago Hub Network will likely be implemented by:

The Midwest Regional rail Initiative (radiating out from Chicago)

The Ohio Hub (Cleveland – Columbus – Cincinnati, the 3C’s):

The latter one has proposals for
Cleveland – Buffalo
Cleveland – Pittsburgh
Columbus – Pittsburgh

Thus connecting to the Empire and Keystone Corridors.

The Rocky Mountain Rail Authority
North-south through Denver
West from Denver into the mountains.

Canada high-speed-rail advocacy:
Windsor – Toronto – Ottawa – Montreal – Quebec City
Edmonton – Calgary in Alberta

Note the splendid isolation of the Colorado and Alberta proposals, while the eastern-Canada proposed line is right across the border from the northeast-US proposed lines.

By: Loren Petrich

Loren Petrich — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 09:23:10 +0000

I agree that those gaps are rather odd — the eastern-US ones look easily bridgable.

As to the Pacific Northwest and California, there is a little problem that I have seen firsthand from Amtrak’s Coast Starlight train:

The California-Oregon mountains.

The existing track there is *very* twisty, and straighter track would require construction of *lots* of viaducts and tunnels.

By: Loren Petrich

Loren Petrich — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 08:56:57 +0000

The Chicago Hub Network will likely be implemented by:

The Midwest Regional Rail Initiative (radiating out from Chicago):
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/passengerrail/onepagers/midwest.html#mwmap

The Ohio Hub (Cleveland – Columbus – Cincinnati, the 3C’s):
http://www2.dot.state.oh.us/ohiorail/Ohio%20Hub/Website/ordc/maps.html

The latter one has proposals for
Cleveland – Buffalo
Cleveland – Pittsburgh
Columbus – Pittsburgh

Thus connecting to the Empire and Keystone Corridors.

Rocky Mountain Rail Authority
http://rockymountainrail.org/Rail_Feasibility_Study.html
North-south through Denver, west from Denver into the mountains.

Canada high-speed-rail advocacy:
http://highspeedrail.ca/
Windsor – Toronto – Ottawa – Montreal – Quebec City
Edmonton – Calgary in Alberta

Note the splendid isolation of the Colorado and Alberta proposals, while the eastern-Canada proposed line is right across the border from the northeast-US proposed lines.

By: Lloyd

Lloyd — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 04:15:54 +0000

Finally, someone gets it – thanks Empact. NARP is a semi-official Amtrak cheerleading group – “anything Amtrak wants they ought to get” is their mantra. Amtrak is a dysfunctional, mongrel that needs to be euthanized as soon as possible. We must start completely anew with a map and a plan and minimum levels of service and travel times. It may mean nationalizing what’s left of the right of way, and if so, so be it. Band-aids (3 times a week trains, 50 mph average speeds) will no longer suffice.

By: John Charles Wilson

John Charles Wilson — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 02:15:31 +0000

The map shows so many corridors which *almost* touch. Maybe the Chicago Hub Network should extend to Buffalo, the Florida to Jacksonville, the Gulf Coast to San Antonio, and the South Central to Kansas City. Connecting the California and Pacific Northwest lines would be a stretch but doable, but I agree those two can’t reasonably connect with the Eastern ones….

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:36:32 +0000

It’s a start. It can’t pay for everything, not by far, but WSDOT’s figures show that they can pay for a lot more of their operating costs if they have the capital investment they need to operate regularly.

By: Matt the Engineer

Matt the Engineer — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:54:43 +0000

My point is more that if they really do make Sea–>Port an hourly train, we’ll quickly see a huge jump in ridership. Once it becomes a better choice to take the train (by any standard, really), you suddenly have entire planes of people that could switch.

Actually, looking just at Alaskan Air, that has to be at least 100 people an hour per direction. Charging each of them just $30 a way would yield $6,000 a train per round trip. It sounds like a good business plan to me.

By: AJ

AJ — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:42:27 +0000

Some people are afraid of flying, and some people dislike intrusive security searches.

By: Matt the Engineer

Matt the Engineer — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:10:30 +0000

At that speed and frequency there would be no reason to fly. My wife travels to Portland constantly, but always flies because she knows she can be on a plane in an hour no matter when her meeting ends.

The raw travel time from downtown Seattle to downtown Portland is the same for each mode (maybe even quicker via rail) – it’s the frequency that makes the difference.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:57:51 +0000

Even 110mph is a lot faster than driving. And Chris – yes, I’d be happy with the incremental upgrades the state is supposed to be funding for Cascades. We’ll just eventually have to turn it into real HSR.