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	<title>Comments on: Rapid Ride Buses May Not Materialize</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14821</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 08:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14821</guid>
		<description>Yes, Ben, in the long run we can build rails to every doorstep, but in the long run, we&#039;re all dead. Given the speed at which ST is being built out, it will take over 100 years to reach &quot;everywhere&quot; in this region, and we will all, quite literally be dead by then.

While living a life of eternal self-sacrifice for the sake of our great-great-great grandchildren may give you the piece of mind to endure our current transportation system while you dream of the utopia that you will never live to see, many of us consider this to be untenable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Ben, in the long run we can build rails to every doorstep, but in the long run, we&#8217;re all dead. Given the speed at which ST is being built out, it will take over 100 years to reach &#8220;everywhere&#8221; in this region, and we will all, quite literally be dead by then.</p>
<p>While living a life of eternal self-sacrifice for the sake of our great-great-great grandchildren may give you the piece of mind to endure our current transportation system while you dream of the utopia that you will never live to see, many of us consider this to be untenable.</p>
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		<title>By: John Jensen</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14437</link>
		<dc:creator>John Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14437</guid>
		<description>There are two scenarios, RapidRide to Ballard and West Seattle within a few years or light rail to them &lt;i&gt;maybe&lt;/i&gt; within twenty. I have been unwilling to bring out this cliche up until now, but the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Those BRT lines will of course be converted to light rail in the future, but ignore short term solutions necessitates ignoring short term problems. Transit in most forms is better than driving an SOV.

Now, if we had to choose between BRT and light rail -- well of course light rail would win. But RapidRide and Prop. 1 aren&#039;t asking us to make that choice. And the opposition campaign, as cjh notes, doesn&#039;t use BRT in nearly any of their arguments to the public at large.

I can see the point about investing in BRT and that not creating the political conditions that necessitate light rail, but I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the best way to plan a transit system with the resources we do have at our disposal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are two scenarios, RapidRide to Ballard and West Seattle within a few years or light rail to them <i>maybe</i> within twenty. I have been unwilling to bring out this cliche up until now, but the perfect is the enemy of the good.</p>
<p>Those BRT lines will of course be converted to light rail in the future, but ignore short term solutions necessitates ignoring short term problems. Transit in most forms is better than driving an SOV.</p>
<p>Now, if we had to choose between BRT and light rail &#8212; well of course light rail would win. But RapidRide and Prop. 1 aren&#8217;t asking us to make that choice. And the opposition campaign, as cjh notes, doesn&#8217;t use BRT in nearly any of their arguments to the public at large.</p>
<p>I can see the point about investing in BRT and that not creating the political conditions that necessitate light rail, but I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the best way to plan a transit system with the resources we do have at our disposal.</p>
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		<title>By: joykiller</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14435</link>
		<dc:creator>joykiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14435</guid>
		<description>IF my argument worked?  Why do you think more and more people are moving to Seattle&#039;s neighborhoods, prompting construction of new apt. buildings and condos?  Why are so few downtown workers looking for homes in the exurbs?  Because traffic sucks.

People adapt their lifestyles based on current realities.  Someone who refuses to adapt in a manner well within their control -- and then complains about it -- gets no sympathy from me.  If your commute sucks, see what you can easily do to fix it first.  Don&#039;t come looking for a huge subsidy from me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IF my argument worked?  Why do you think more and more people are moving to Seattle&#8217;s neighborhoods, prompting construction of new apt. buildings and condos?  Why are so few downtown workers looking for homes in the exurbs?  Because traffic sucks.</p>
<p>People adapt their lifestyles based on current realities.  Someone who refuses to adapt in a manner well within their control &#8212; and then complains about it &#8212; gets no sympathy from me.  If your commute sucks, see what you can easily do to fix it first.  Don&#8217;t come looking for a huge subsidy from me.</p>
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		<title>By: cjh</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14433</link>
		<dc:creator>cjh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14433</guid>
		<description>Actually, I am very much suggesting raising taxes, John.

Within our current regulatory structure we can either have low taxes and weak services/terrible infrastructure or higher taxes and better services/infrastructure.  Privately run bridges and transit services have a barrier to entry that is too high for everyone outside of, well, Microsoft.

There was a post on this very blog on this subject, basically, why do most other high income countries have better roads, rails, mass transit (rail and bus!), airports, sewers, etc than us?  Because they either a) levy sufficient taxes to pay for them, b) have a regulatory structure that supports non-governmental investment in infrastructure (the classic example is France&#039;s privatized water supply), or c) some combination of the above.

I know there are legal constraints to many state and county taxes but they are not insurmountable, just difficult.  This really isn&#039;t even an R vs. D issue (see how much our D supermajority did last session) but rather an issue of finding a new taxing consensus in the legislature as a whole.  Rural districts certainly have their share of infrastructure issues as well (and the burden is far worse per resident).  All easier said than done but, as I said above, it&#039;s not like saying &quot;If E=mc^3.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I am very much suggesting raising taxes, John.</p>
<p>Within our current regulatory structure we can either have low taxes and weak services/terrible infrastructure or higher taxes and better services/infrastructure.  Privately run bridges and transit services have a barrier to entry that is too high for everyone outside of, well, Microsoft.</p>
<p>There was a post on this very blog on this subject, basically, why do most other high income countries have better roads, rails, mass transit (rail and bus!), airports, sewers, etc than us?  Because they either a) levy sufficient taxes to pay for them, b) have a regulatory structure that supports non-governmental investment in infrastructure (the classic example is France&#8217;s privatized water supply), or c) some combination of the above.</p>
<p>I know there are legal constraints to many state and county taxes but they are not insurmountable, just difficult.  This really isn&#8217;t even an R vs. D issue (see how much our D supermajority did last session) but rather an issue of finding a new taxing consensus in the legislature as a whole.  Rural districts certainly have their share of infrastructure issues as well (and the burden is far worse per resident).  All easier said than done but, as I said above, it&#8217;s not like saying &#8220;If E=mc^3.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14420</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14420</guid>
		<description>Joykiller, if your argument worked, we wouldn&#039;t have traffic in the first place. Reality doesn&#039;t change just because you will it so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joykiller, if your argument worked, we wouldn&#8217;t have traffic in the first place. Reality doesn&#8217;t change just because you will it so.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14418</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14418</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the opposite. I really think you don&#039;t realize how this has worked historically. When buses have their own right of way, there&#039;s pressure to REMOVE that right of way, not pressure for more of it - because the majority are driving.

Here&#039;s the alternative (although we&#039;re not really choosing between the two, it&#039;s just an equivalency thing):

1) Choose buses. This eats your money to build rail, which means you&#039;re stuck with ONLY buses. That&#039;s what Metro is doing. Ever heard of COMET? We tried to avoid this situation.

2) Choose rail. You build it, you operate it, and there&#039;s never a situation like this - and then, when you&#039;ve paid off the construction, you free up money to build more.

It will ALWAYS be better in the short term to choose 1, and it will ALWAYS be a bad choice in hindsight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the opposite. I really think you don&#8217;t realize how this has worked historically. When buses have their own right of way, there&#8217;s pressure to REMOVE that right of way, not pressure for more of it &#8211; because the majority are driving.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the alternative (although we&#8217;re not really choosing between the two, it&#8217;s just an equivalency thing):</p>
<p>1) Choose buses. This eats your money to build rail, which means you&#8217;re stuck with ONLY buses. That&#8217;s what Metro is doing. Ever heard of COMET? We tried to avoid this situation.</p>
<p>2) Choose rail. You build it, you operate it, and there&#8217;s never a situation like this &#8211; and then, when you&#8217;ve paid off the construction, you free up money to build more.</p>
<p>It will ALWAYS be better in the short term to choose 1, and it will ALWAYS be a bad choice in hindsight.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14417</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14417</guid>
		<description>Actually, we can have it everywhere. It&#039;s just that we can&#039;t build it all at once.

You know why I blast BRT? Because BRT keeps us from ever getting rail, and then BRT is gone with the financial winds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, we can have it everywhere. It&#8217;s just that we can&#8217;t build it all at once.</p>
<p>You know why I blast BRT? Because BRT keeps us from ever getting rail, and then BRT is gone with the financial winds.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14416</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14416</guid>
		<description>Whoa, whoa. This RapidRide thing is METRO. And I&#039;ve pointed out in the past that it&#039;s not going to happen - this isn&#039;t new news, it&#039;s just reality setting in.

Prop 1 is Sound Transit. They&#039;re not having these problems because buses aren&#039;t their bread and butter - building capital projects is.

The things that are putting Metro into such bad shape are leading to lower land prices and lower construction costs - exactly what we need to make Prop 1 happen.

And none of this has anything to do with the city. Please be careful not to confuse city government, county government, and sound transit. They&#039;re totally different - often, in fact, they don&#039;t even get along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoa, whoa. This RapidRide thing is METRO. And I&#8217;ve pointed out in the past that it&#8217;s not going to happen &#8211; this isn&#8217;t new news, it&#8217;s just reality setting in.</p>
<p>Prop 1 is Sound Transit. They&#8217;re not having these problems because buses aren&#8217;t their bread and butter &#8211; building capital projects is.</p>
<p>The things that are putting Metro into such bad shape are leading to lower land prices and lower construction costs &#8211; exactly what we need to make Prop 1 happen.</p>
<p>And none of this has anything to do with the city. Please be careful not to confuse city government, county government, and sound transit. They&#8217;re totally different &#8211; often, in fact, they don&#8217;t even get along.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14415</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14415</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re still on the high side by a lot. Prices aren&#039;t about to start going up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re still on the high side by a lot. Prices aren&#8217;t about to start going up.</p>
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		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14346</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14346</guid>
		<description>Trolling is so much fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trolling is so much fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14339</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 07:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14339</guid>
		<description>Me, too! That&#039;s why I started this blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me, too! That&#8217;s why I started this blog!</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14338</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 07:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14338</guid>
		<description>I love you, too, L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love you, too, L</p>
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		<title>By: L</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14324</link>
		<dc:creator>L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 05:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14324</guid>
		<description>Joykiller, perhaps &lt;i&gt;your&lt;/i&gt; friend should try working in Tacoma or living in Seattle. Then he could take the new revese-commute Sounder.


Oh, and it&#039;s &quot;Humungus&quot; Lake, not &quot;HUMONGOUS&quot; Lake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joykiller, perhaps <i>your</i> friend should try working in Tacoma or living in Seattle. Then he could take the new revese-commute Sounder.</p>
<p>Oh, and it&#8217;s &#8220;Humungus&#8221; Lake, not &#8220;HUMONGOUS&#8221; Lake.</p>
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		<title>By: L</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14322</link>
		<dc:creator>L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 05:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14322</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll celebrate your demise, Andrew. Over Rapid Ride&#039;s dead body.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll celebrate your demise, Andrew. Over Rapid Ride&#8217;s dead body.</p>
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		<title>By: L</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14321</link>
		<dc:creator>L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 05:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14321</guid>
		<description>or even &quot;like Mexicans and the French.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>or even &#8220;like Mexicans and the French.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: L</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14320</link>
		<dc:creator>L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 05:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14320</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d pay 150% of x any day! I freaking love transit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d pay 150% of x any day! I freaking love transit!</p>
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		<title>By: L</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14319</link>
		<dc:creator>L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 05:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14319</guid>
		<description>yeah they are!! they dont know what they&#039;re doing. I think they&#039;re grasping at straws here to make ever possible extra penny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah they are!! they dont know what they&#8217;re doing. I think they&#8217;re grasping at straws here to make ever possible extra penny.</p>
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		<title>By: Seattle Transit Blog &#187; Re: Rapid Ride Buses May Not Materialize</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14260</link>
		<dc:creator>Seattle Transit Blog &#187; Re: Rapid Ride Buses May Not Materialize</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14260</guid>
		<description>[...] Rapid Ride Buses May Not Materialize [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Rapid Ride Buses May Not Materialize [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14247</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14247</guid>
		<description>I am not celebrating rapid ride&#039;s demise. I want rapid ride.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not celebrating rapid ride&#8217;s demise. I want rapid ride.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/10/24/rapid-ride-buses-may-not-materialize/#comment-14245</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1211#comment-14245</guid>
		<description>Sound Transit does&#039;t have that problem. King County keeps blowing their cahs on buses, trying to use them when only rail will do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sound Transit does&#8217;t have that problem. King County keeps blowing their cahs on buses, trying to use them when only rail will do.</p>
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