Comments on: Seattle Streetcar Expansion Passes City Council

By: Portland Streetcar Expansion Gets Large Federal Grant - Seattle Transit Blog

Portland Streetcar Expansion Gets Large Federal Grant - Seattle Transit Blog — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:41:27 +0000

[...] ever since the Viaduct tunnel decision came down there hasn’t been much discussion about the 1st Ave/Central streetcar line. City leaders agree that now’s the time to invest in our infrastructure, but [...]

By: Seattle Transit Blog » More Transit Lanes

Seattle Transit Blog » More Transit Lanes — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:01:20 +0000

[...] Seattle Streetcar Expansion Passes City Council [...]

By: SR Das

SR Das — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:15:07 +0000

Yes, I saw that. Maybe the Birney car could also get a run for its money with the necessary mods as well. But MEHVA has been inducting new additions to their historical fleet as they are retired. Only three years ago did they add an original Dual-Powered Breda tunnel bus (with its diesel engine intact, unlike the 59 that were stripped of their engines and coverted to pure trolley buses) and a MAN “Americana.” So it may work.

By: Pete

Pete — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:32:26 +0000

Thanks for the link. Looking at their site it looks like they already own a vintage Seattle streetcar. It’s a Birney Safety Car purchased from the American Car Company in 1919 for the Seattle Municipal Street Railway.

By: SR Das

SR Das — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:56:08 +0000

EvergreenRailfan, you read my mind! We can resurrect the Melbourne streetcars with necessary modifications, and can be inducted into the fleet for the Metro Employees Historic Vehicles Association (MEHVA, http://www.mehva.org) for use on public excursions five times a year. I had already sent an e-mail to MEHVA, but still no reply.

By: Steve

Steve — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:41:17 +0000

Yeah, I’d second this — dedicated lanes are a much easier sell when there are known to be trains running every couple of minutes.

That said, it’s better if the route can be chosen in such a way that it can later be made exclusive in sections — that is, making the track exclusive shouldn’t block turn lanes, etc.

By: Steve

Steve — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:26:38 +0000

Pete —

I’m pretty sure the bridges can’t handle the load of a modern streetcar (which heavier on a per-axle basis than streetcars used to be), or at least that’s what the streetcar report said.

I believe one of the newish streetcar systems (maybe Tampa?) runs some kind of recently-built streetcar stylized to look older. These are shorter and lighter than the streetcars we’re looking at, so in theory we could use something like that and not need to re-build the bridges. Personally, I think smaller streetcars would be a poor investment for Seattle — they won’t hold as many people and so would likely hit crush loads at peak times — but it is a possibility.

By: striatic

striatic — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:19:32 +0000

that’s a joke, i hope.

surely i can be forgiven a “u” that i’ve been writing for decades now.

anyway, thanks Tim.

By: EvergreenRailfan

EvergreenRailfan — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:20:27 +0000

Might give the City Attorney some work looking into it. That could be one of the biggest stumbling blocks operating the W-class cars on other routes would be the ADA Compliance. Whether the trolley poles will be compatible is no problem, I have seen the 70 cross the streetcar wire, and in Melbourne, the W-class trams still in service , have mostly had the trolleypoles replaced with pantographs, except on one route.

By: alexjonlin

alexjonlin — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 23:57:17 +0000

I agree with you on the Rainier streetcar, but the Central Line should still go on 1st. 4th & 5th are much cheaper and faster because they’re a few blocks away from where all the tourist attractions are and where everything’s happening. Maybe in the future (perhaps for a Rainier line) they could put them on 4th & 5th, but they should build them on 1st and 3rd first.

By: alexjonlin

alexjonlin — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 23:53:51 +0000

In San Francisco, the stops are kinda weird. A lot of them are just yellow lines on the ground next to the tracks, and are quite a bit lower than the bottom step on the streetcar. Only certain stops on the MUNI can accommodate wheelchairs; I’m not sure if that would be legal in Seattle.

By: EvergreenRailfan

EvergreenRailfan — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:35:15 +0000

I have always wondered if it were possible to modify the W-class streetcars/trams that used to run on the Waterfront for operation without their high platforms. Would a wheelchair lift have to be installed(supposedly to put them aboard the PCCs for Route 15, SEPTA in Philadelphia they used lifts taken off of decommissioned buses)? Steps need to be installed? I was wondering how they are operated in the other cities in the U.S. that have W-class cars running, mainly Memphis and San Francisco. I found this photo of one in Memphis.

http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13343

It has to be done somehow if the variety of streetcars running in Memphis can be used interchangebly on the 3 lines that make up the Main Street Trolley. Especially to service stops like these.

http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13344

By: John Jensen

John Jensen — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:04:37 +0000

Okay grumps, cut it out.

By: Matt the Engineer

Matt the Engineer — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:01:14 +0000

As a Mechanical Engineer I can tell you they definitely could. Any counterbalance system we build would be custom, and therefore our choice of the trains we build the system for is our choice. The cars would likely need some modification – this could be as simple as an eye welded to the frame for a hook to fit in, or as complex (though really still simple) as an electromagnet mounted on the base and tied into the car’s electric system.

By: AJ

AJ — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:22:20 +0000

What’s your idea in terms of bold leadership in getting businesses and residents to approve the removal of multiple lanes through the entire length of the alignment?

First you get the streetcar running, and when you prove it isn’t going to destroy businesses, THEN you take the lane to a BAT setup and THEN you make it entirely dedicated.

You have to remember that the politics involved is staggering, especially since it runs through residential highrises, each person with a say on taxation. Do you think Mark Baerwaldt would vote yes if we said “we’re taking 3 lanes for this thing”?

By: Tim Whittome

Tim Whittome — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:46:27 +0000

That’s not a very Seattle welcome!

I’ll say welcome to the neighborhood or neighbourhood as they say in England as well as Canada!

You’ll have a great view of the Space Needle firework display at New Year – assuming we still have the money to burn at this point:)

Tim

By: chh

chh — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:36:00 +0000

If we aren’t building this with dedicated right of way, it is a waste of money. For all the talk of “bold leadership” on this issue coming from the council, they’d better actually do it right and get the streetcars out of the flow (gridlock) of traffic.

By: Pete

Pete — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:43:12 +0000

Why would lines that cross the cut be automatically out? all of our bascule bridges (drawbridges) originally had streetcars on them: Montlake, University, Fremont, Ballard. If you drive over any of them you can see the welded plates in the center lanes that cover up the hole left by the rail slot at the transitioon plates (though the grate decking has since been replaced). My point being that the bridges can handle the loads, and the design for laying rails across the bridges already exists, so I don’t see why this alone should be an impediment.

By: Brian Bundridge

Brian Bundridge — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:43:08 +0000

The only one I am aware of that was even remotely dedicated would be the Rainier one if that ever was to happen.

If the new trail didn’t open SSN could have used the old ROW for a streetcar and freight service from Interbay to South Lake Union warehouses.

I need to dig for the old study… I’ll dig for that after lunch.

By: Al

Al — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:29:22 +0000

Oh wait, is the streetcar going to have dedicated lanes or not? If not, it’s not rapid…