Comments on: ST Considers Distance-Based Light Rail Fares http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/ Transit in the Greater Seattle Area Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:21:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: John Thacker http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-36569 John Thacker Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:18:50 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-36569 That's true for Central Link, AIUI. However, I remember reading a Sound Transit document that indicated that once University Link and East Link were open, more buses (and perhaps all of them) would have to leave to the tunnel.
That’s true for Central Link, AIUI. However, I remember reading a Sound Transit document that indicated that once University Link and East Link were open, more buses (and perhaps all of them) would have to leave to the tunnel.

]]> By: ST to Decide on $1.75 Base Link Fare, No Free Ride - Seattle Transit Blog http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-36090 ST to Decide on $1.75 Base Link Fare, No Free Ride - Seattle Transit Blog Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:01:21 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-36090 [...] a distance-based surcharge of $.05 per mile rounded to the nearest quarter (you can read about the introduction of the distance-based fare in our archives). The maximum fare from Downtown Seattle to Seatac Airport would be [...]
[...] a distance-based surcharge of $.05 per mile rounded to the nearest quarter (you can read about the introduction of the distance-based fare in our archives). The maximum fare from Downtown Seattle to Seatac Airport would be [...]

]]> By: John Thacker http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-25535 John Thacker Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:55:28 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-25535 The DC Metro has fare adjustment machines for the old paper passes (that still exist), but the Exitfare machines that let you add money to one of the old passes don't work with the smart card, and Metro hasn't replaced them. So to avoid people being trapped inside, you're allowed to leave the system with a negative balance on your card; you just can't use it to enter again until you make the balance positive. But then so people wouldn't just get new free cards to replace their negative balance cards, they charge $5 for the card, more than the highest possible fare. That way there's no way to try to game the system. I suppose with Orca it'll be you swipe once, it deducts the max fare from your card, and then you swipe a second time in order to replace the value where you actually went.
The DC Metro has fare adjustment machines for the old paper passes (that still exist), but the Exitfare machines that let you add money to one of the old passes don’t work with the smart card, and Metro hasn’t replaced them.

So to avoid people being trapped inside, you’re allowed to leave the system with a negative balance on your card; you just can’t use it to enter again until you make the balance positive. But then so people wouldn’t just get new free cards to replace their negative balance cards, they charge $5 for the card, more than the highest possible fare. That way there’s no way to try to game the system.

I suppose with Orca it’ll be you swipe once, it deducts the max fare from your card, and then you swipe a second time in order to replace the value where you actually went.

]]> By: John Thacker http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-25534 John Thacker Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:47:08 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-25534 The DC Metro charges $5 to get a smart card as well. That's (largely?) because the Exitfare machines that let you add money to one of the old passes don't work with the smart card, and Metro hasn't replaced them all. So to avoid people being trapped inside, you're allowed to leave the system with a negative balance on your card; you just can't use it to enter again until you make the balance positive. But then so people wouldn't just get new free cards to replace their negative balance cards, they charge $5 for the card, more than the highest possible fare. That way there's no way to try to game the system.
The DC Metro charges $5 to get a smart card as well. That’s (largely?) because the Exitfare machines that let you add money to one of the old passes don’t work with the smart card, and Metro hasn’t replaced them all. So to avoid people being trapped inside, you’re allowed to leave the system with a negative balance on your card; you just can’t use it to enter again until you make the balance positive. But then so people wouldn’t just get new free cards to replace their negative balance cards, they charge $5 for the card, more than the highest possible fare. That way there’s no way to try to game the system.

]]> By: Fares in Minneapolis, Seattle, and Charlotte « the transport politic http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-24117 Fares in Minneapolis, Seattle, and Charlotte « the transport politic Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:16:00 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-24117 [...] which would mean increasing costs for the rider depending on the length of his or her ride. The Seattle Transit Blog reports that fares would start at $1.75 or $2 and increase to up to $2.75 for the full ride from [...]
[...] which would mean increasing costs for the rider depending on the length of his or her ride. The Seattle Transit Blog reports that fares would start at $1.75 or $2 and increase to up to $2.75 for the full ride from [...]

]]> By: Zelbinian http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23935 Zelbinian Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:35:54 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23935 The problem with zones, is the edge cases lead to mess scenarios: * A ride going completely through Zone A without going outside of it would be, say, $2. * A ride starting on -just- this side of A and ending on -just- this side of B would be $2.25. And that's bullshit. I shouldn't be penalized just because my grocery story happens to be on the opposite side of the zone. Then I will, ironically, travel farther, to a grocery store out of my local neighborhood, because it's cheaper. A distance-based fare is much more fair.
The problem with zones, is the edge cases lead to mess scenarios:

* A ride going completely through Zone A without going outside of it would be, say, $2.
* A ride starting on -just- this side of A and ending on -just- this side of B would be $2.25.

And that’s bullshit. I shouldn’t be penalized just because my grocery story happens to be on the opposite side of the zone. Then I will, ironically, travel farther, to a grocery store out of my local neighborhood, because it’s cheaper.

A distance-based fare is much more fair.

]]> By: Matt the Engineer http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23901 Matt the Engineer Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:34:18 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23901 At $5 each, yes that's a lot. At the real cost of well under a penny each? Not so much.
At $5 each, yes that’s a lot. At the real cost of well under a penny each? Not so much.

]]> By: Turnstiles - Seattle Transit Blog http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23781 Turnstiles - Seattle Transit Blog Sun, 04 Jan 2009 05:01:30 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23781 [...] this talk about fare structures has sparked some yearning for turnstiles.  I refer you to my post on the [...]
[...] this talk about fare structures has sparked some yearning for turnstiles.  I refer you to my post on the [...]

]]> By: eddiew http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23780 eddiew Sun, 04 Jan 2009 04:43:23 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23780 Chris Stefan wrote: "71, 72, 73, and 74x will be in the tunnel until U-link opens at which point all of the buses will be kicked out of the tunnel. Presumably at that point Metro will do some service revisions to free service hours for other things." The extent of Link LRT does not kick the buses out of the tunnel; a tight headway does. Joint operation may continue as long as the LRT headway is four minutes or longer. It is a two agency decision. We shall see. Link LRT is expected to reach UW stadium station in 2016. The restructure of routes 71, 72, 73, and 74 has not been decided and probably will not until that year. It is more certain those routes will be restructured when Link LRT serves the NE 45th Street station in about 2020. There are significant logistical issues with truncating those routes at the UW stadium station, including the walk distance for transfers for routes on Stevens Way, the wait times, and lack of layover. The layover factor brings Seattle and the UW to the table.
Chris Stefan wrote: “71, 72, 73, and 74x will be in the tunnel until U-link opens at which point all of the buses will be kicked out of the tunnel. Presumably at that point Metro will do some service revisions to free service hours for other things.”

The extent of Link LRT does not kick the buses out of the tunnel; a tight headway does. Joint operation may continue as long as the LRT headway is four minutes or longer. It is a two agency decision. We shall see.

Link LRT is expected to reach UW stadium station in 2016. The restructure of routes 71, 72, 73, and 74 has not been decided and probably will not until that year. It is more certain those routes will be restructured when Link LRT serves the NE 45th Street station in about 2020. There are significant logistical issues with truncating those routes at the UW stadium station, including the walk distance for transfers for routes on Stevens Way, the wait times, and lack of layover. The layover factor brings Seattle and the UW to the table.

]]> By: Oran Viriyincy http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23768 Oran Viriyincy Sun, 04 Jan 2009 03:25:25 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23768 Here's bad news from the Bay Area, the cards might not be free. <a href="https://www.translink.org/TranslinkWeb/getTranslinkOrderCard.do" rel="nofollow">TransLink</a> is charging $5 to get a card. The card is free if you set up Autoload which means giving your credit card or bank account number to them. I read from the smart card contractor's website that they expect to issue 400,000 ORCA smart cards. That's a lot!
Here’s bad news from the Bay Area, the cards might not be free. TransLink is charging $5 to get a card. The card is free if you set up Autoload which means giving your credit card or bank account number to them.

I read from the smart card contractor’s website that they expect to issue 400,000 ORCA smart cards. That’s a lot!

]]> By: Oran Viriyincy http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23766 Oran Viriyincy Sun, 04 Jan 2009 03:14:08 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23766 It is the same technology from the same company. TransLink chose <a href="http://www.erggroup.com/worldwide/details.asp?pid=44&r=5" rel="nofollow">ERG</a>. If you thought our region had too many agencies and ORCA is taking forever, looks like TransLink is going to be used on 26 transit agencies in the Bay Area and their contract was signed back in 1999; as of 2009 they still don't have BART and Muni on it yet.
It is the same technology from the same company. TransLink chose ERG.

If you thought our region had too many agencies and ORCA is taking forever, looks like TransLink is going to be used on 26 transit agencies in the Bay Area and their contract was signed back in 1999; as of 2009 they still don’t have BART and Muni on it yet.

]]> By: Matt the Engineer http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23744 Matt the Engineer Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:48:22 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23744 I highly recommend that MSG150 site - it's a lunch group that is trying to document eating at every single ID restaurant. It's a great resource.
I highly recommend that MSG150 site – it’s a lunch group that is trying to document eating at every single ID restaurant. It’s a great resource.

]]> By: Oran Viriyincy http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23742 Oran Viriyincy Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:46:20 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23742 If I had a Seattle Transit System token, I would polish it and put it in a showcase or sell it on EBay. It's worth much more than a bus fare.
If I had a Seattle Transit System token, I would polish it and put it in a showcase or sell it on EBay. It’s worth much more than a bus fare.

]]> By: Oran Viriyincy http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23741 Oran Viriyincy Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:42:33 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23741 Matt, you're making me hungry! I gotta try those out sometime.
Matt, you’re making me hungry! I gotta try those out sometime.

]]> By: Oran Viriyincy http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23737 Oran Viriyincy Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:31:59 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23737 There are no readers on the trains. They should be on the platform, otherwise what's to stop you from boarding traveling half-way and then tapping the card on the train. In the DSTT, particularly Westlake, you will notice yellow poles installed near the stairs leading to the platform. Those are for the ORCA readers. King Street Station has two readers that I've noticed, one on the Weller St Bridge and one right after you come down the north side stairs to the platform.
There are no readers on the trains. They should be on the platform, otherwise what’s to stop you from boarding traveling half-way and then tapping the card on the train.

In the DSTT, particularly Westlake, you will notice yellow poles installed near the stairs leading to the platform. Those are for the ORCA readers. King Street Station has two readers that I’ve noticed, one on the Weller St Bridge and one right after you come down the north side stairs to the platform.

]]> By: Andrew Hitchcock http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23735 Andrew Hitchcock Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:27:12 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23735 Oh wait, U-Link, that isn't for a really long time. Nevermind.
Oh wait, U-Link, that isn’t for a really long time. Nevermind.

]]> By: SeattleHound » Light Rail Fares http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23734 SeattleHound » Light Rail Fares Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:18:30 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23734 [...] rail system that’s going to run from downtown to the airport. Yesterday they reported that Sound Transit was considering calculating the fares based on the distance you travel: a base fee, plus a certain charge per mile. in this case, $2 plus [...]
[...] rail system that’s going to run from downtown to the airport. Yesterday they reported that Sound Transit was considering calculating the fares based on the distance you travel: a base fee, plus a certain charge per mile. in this case, $2 plus [...]

]]> By: Andrew Hitchcock http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23733 Andrew Hitchcock Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:17:13 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23733 Noooo! I ride from the University District to the International District daily. When the bus tunnel was closed that route was a pain in the ass, especially when I decided to leave during peak (normally I ride after the peaks). We'll be moving to SLU in 2010, so I should wish for a speedy expansion of the trolley line up Eastlake… or move out of the U-District.
Noooo! I ride from the University District to the International District daily. When the bus tunnel was closed that route was a pain in the ass, especially when I decided to leave during peak (normally I ride after the peaks). We’ll be moving to SLU in 2010, so I should wish for a speedy expansion of the trolley line up Eastlake… or move out of the U-District.

]]> By: max http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23730 max Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:06:15 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23730 i dont see how turnstyles could work for at-grade outdoor stations. underground and elevated? sure. but those threeb down in the valley and the sodo and stadium stations, that wont work.
i dont see how turnstyles could work for at-grade outdoor stations. underground and elevated? sure.

but those threeb down in the valley and the sodo and stadium stations, that wont work.

]]> By: anonymouse http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/02/st-considers-distance-based-light-rail-fares/#comment-23728 anonymouse Sat, 03 Jan 2009 22:58:03 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=1796#comment-23728 Yeah, Translink will be great when it comes. Last I heard it will be implemented on BART in summer of 2008. I can't wait!
Yeah, Translink will be great when it comes. Last I heard it will be implemented on BART in summer of 2008. I can’t wait!

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