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	<title>Comments on: I Hate This Tunnel</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: marjorie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-100720</link>
		<dc:creator>marjorie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-100720</guid>
		<description>I oppose the tunnel for many reasons.  First, it flies in the face of democracy.  A whopping 70% of Seattle voters voted &#039;no&#039; on this.  For Christine Gregoire, Greg Nickels, et al, to have pushed forth in trying to get this tunnel built over and above the objections of the people definitly goes against democracy, because a democracy is supposed to be a government by the people, not a dictatorship by the politicians.  But we did fire Greg Nickels, didn&#039;t we?

There are also many safety issues involved here but to enumerate these would take a lot of space.

And isn&#039;t it interesting that even though American politicians want &quot;We the People&quot; to be paranoid about terrorism so that the politicians can strip us of our constitutional rights, they don&#039;t mention terroism and tunnel in the same breath.  Why?  Because the pro-tunnel politicians know that the tunnel would be a prime target for terrorism, and there&#039;s not much the government can do to prevent it.  What&#039;s the government going to do: make all the cars pass through a metal detector?

Then there&#039;s cost: 4 and a 1/4 billion dollars for starters + cost over-runs.  And anytime the politicians conspire with big business this way to fleece the public, there are always cost over-runs.

And who would use this tunnel?  I&#039;ve read that 100,000 motorists per day use the viaduct.  Oh?  Is this 100,000 different motorists each day making a one way trip, driving off into the sunset never to be seen or heard from again?  Or is it more like 50,000 motorists per day making a round trip?  This is an example of how statistics don&#039;t lie but liars (big business/government) can learn to manipulate statistics.  And for the most part, it&#039;s probably the same 50,000 per day.

Then let&#039;s talk about environment.  Is this tunnel supposed to help get people to stop using their cars and start thinking about our planet?  Not hardly!  Our government is determined to keep people IN cars.  For instance, our federal government was giving tax breaks to people to buy new cars, even though &quot;energy saving&quot; cars are very bad for the environment.  How so?  It takes a lot of energy and uses a lot resources and causes a lot of pollution just to manufacture a new car.  And that&#039;s before you even buy it and drive it.  New cars!  Tunnels!  This is all in an effort to boost the profits of corporate power: the auto industry, oil industry, etc.

Many people who gripe about higher taxes are among the first to vote these taxes in.  Of the 30% who voted &quot;yes&quot; on the tunnel, how many of them complain about big government spending and higher taxes?  How many of them, for instance, complain about welfare programs?  This tunnel would amount to welfare for the people who are too self-centered to stop driving their cars, or at least drive them less.  

PS  I was born in Seattle and am proud to say that I have never had a car.  And It&#039;s probably been several decades since the last time I was on the viaduct.</description>
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I oppose the tunnel for many reasons.  First, it flies in the face of democracy.  A whopping 70% of Seattle voters voted &#8216;no&#8217; on this.  For Christine Gregoire, Greg Nickels, et al, to have pushed forth in trying to get this tunnel built over and above the objections of the people definitly goes against democracy, because a democracy is supposed to be a government by the people, not a dictatorship by the politicians.  But we did fire Greg Nickels, didn&#8217;t we?</p>
<p>There are also many safety issues involved here but to enumerate these would take a lot of space.</p>
<p>And isn&#8217;t it interesting that even though American politicians want &#8220;We the People&#8221; to be paranoid about terrorism so that the politicians can strip us of our constitutional rights, they don&#8217;t mention terroism and tunnel in the same breath.  Why?  Because the pro-tunnel politicians know that the tunnel would be a prime target for terrorism, and there&#8217;s not much the government can do to prevent it.  What&#8217;s the government going to do: make all the cars pass through a metal detector?</p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s cost: 4 and a 1/4 billion dollars for starters + cost over-runs.  And anytime the politicians conspire with big business this way to fleece the public, there are always cost over-runs.</p>
<p>And who would use this tunnel?  I&#8217;ve read that 100,000 motorists per day use the viaduct.  Oh?  Is this 100,000 different motorists each day making a one way trip, driving off into the sunset never to be seen or heard from again?  Or is it more like 50,000 motorists per day making a round trip?  This is an example of how statistics don&#8217;t lie but liars (big business/government) can learn to manipulate statistics.  And for the most part, it&#8217;s probably the same 50,000 per day.</p>
<p>Then let&#8217;s talk about environment.  Is this tunnel supposed to help get people to stop using their cars and start thinking about our planet?  Not hardly!  Our government is determined to keep people IN cars.  For instance, our federal government was giving tax breaks to people to buy new cars, even though &#8220;energy saving&#8221; cars are very bad for the environment.  How so?  It takes a lot of energy and uses a lot resources and causes a lot of pollution just to manufacture a new car.  And that&#8217;s before you even buy it and drive it.  New cars!  Tunnels!  This is all in an effort to boost the profits of corporate power: the auto industry, oil industry, etc.</p>
<p>Many people who gripe about higher taxes are among the first to vote these taxes in.  Of the 30% who voted &#8220;yes&#8221; on the tunnel, how many of them complain about big government spending and higher taxes?  How many of them, for instance, complain about welfare programs?  This tunnel would amount to welfare for the people who are too self-centered to stop driving their cars, or at least drive them less.  </p>
<p>PS  I was born in Seattle and am proud to say that I have never had a car.  And It&#8217;s probably been several decades since the last time I was on the viaduct.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Why The Tunnel Is So Wrong &#124; hugeasscity</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-27188</link>
		<dc:creator>Why The Tunnel Is So Wrong &#124; hugeasscity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-27188</guid>
		<description>[...] questioning the sanity of a high cost of a viaduct replacement since the Nisqually Quake (see this STB post for current cost analysis).  Of the $2.8 billion that the State has committed (not including [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[...] questioning the sanity of a high cost of a viaduct replacement since the Nisqually Quake (see this STB post for current cost analysis).  Of the $2.8 billion that the State has committed (not including [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Week In Review - Seattle Transit Blog</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-26260</link>
		<dc:creator>Week In Review - Seattle Transit Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 06:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-26260</guid>
		<description>[...] Tuesday, I said I hated the tunnel, though I&#8217;m warming to it. The Viaduct picture also became more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[...] Tuesday, I said I hated the tunnel, though I&#8217;m warming to it. The Viaduct picture also became more [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: rick pezzner</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-26251</link>
		<dc:creator>rick pezzner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 04:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-26251</guid>
		<description>Is there a water pumping system when or if the Tunnel floods?  

Is there an emergency air system in case the Tunnel collapses?

Is there an evacuation system from the Tunnel and for people leaving the waterfront in case of earthquake or tsunami type event?

How many exit doors will be available in case of emergency?

Will there be a walk path built throughout the tunnel so handicap people can move in wheel chairs and biker use if needed.</description>
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Is there a water pumping system when or if the Tunnel floods?  </p>
<p>Is there an emergency air system in case the Tunnel collapses?</p>
<p>Is there an evacuation system from the Tunnel and for people leaving the waterfront in case of earthquake or tsunami type event?</p>
<p>How many exit doors will be available in case of emergency?</p>
<p>Will there be a walk path built throughout the tunnel so handicap people can move in wheel chairs and biker use if needed.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25777</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25777</guid>
		<description>The problem is those cranks want to replace the viaduct with another elevated structure.

Which would be worse urban planning, worse transportation planning, and also a bad use of scarce money.

I also don&#039;t want the preceedent because some anti-rail crank might try something similar to kill one or more of the Link alignments.</description>
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The problem is those cranks want to replace the viaduct with another elevated structure.</p>
<p>Which would be worse urban planning, worse transportation planning, and also a bad use of scarce money.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t want the preceedent because some anti-rail crank might try something similar to kill one or more of the Link alignments.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25770</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25770</guid>
		<description>I think the tunnel is so deep in order to avoid building foundations in Belltown, the BNSF tunnel, and a 8&#039; sewer line. Also from what I read on tunneling, 2x the tunnel diameter is the depth where settling on properties adjacent to the alignment becomes much less of an issue.

The tunnel would have to be quite a bit larger in order to accomidate 4 lanes plus two link tracks.

Since there is only one tunnel I do wonder what they are planning on doing for emergency exits/access.</description>
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I think the tunnel is so deep in order to avoid building foundations in Belltown, the BNSF tunnel, and a 8&#8242; sewer line. Also from what I read on tunneling, 2x the tunnel diameter is the depth where settling on properties adjacent to the alignment becomes much less of an issue.</p>
<p>The tunnel would have to be quite a bit larger in order to accomidate 4 lanes plus two link tracks.</p>
<p>Since there is only one tunnel I do wonder what they are planning on doing for emergency exits/access.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: A Pricey Tunnel of Love &#171; The Vigilant Lens</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25734</link>
		<dc:creator>A Pricey Tunnel of Love &#171; The Vigilant Lens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25734</guid>
		<description>[...] or two over Lake WA, finish the north south freeway in Spokane, end famine, abortion and pull rabbits out of his ass? All for like $198.000? I think Dino even left room in his fantastical budget&#8230;for the new I-5 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[...] or two over Lake WA, finish the north south freeway in Spokane, end famine, abortion and pull rabbits out of his ass? All for like $198.000? I think Dino even left room in his fantastical budget&#8230;for the new I-5 [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Free Lunch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25664</link>
		<dc:creator>Free Lunch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 03:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25664</guid>
		<description>Too bad this won&#039;t be &quot;shovel-ready&quot; for at least 3 years. No federal windfall for Washington state, I guess. Thanks for all the indecision, Gregoire!</description>
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Too bad this won&#8217;t be &#8220;shovel-ready&#8221; for at least 3 years. No federal windfall for Washington state, I guess. Thanks for all the indecision, Gregoire!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Free Lunch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25663</link>
		<dc:creator>Free Lunch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 03:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25663</guid>
		<description>Well, when the viaduct was closed for several weekdays for inspection after the Nisqually earthquake, I-5 came to a virtual halt at rush hour, as did 1st Ave, 4th Ave, Dexter Ave, Alaskan Way, Marginal Way, and every viable alternative. 

It&#039;s funny how people who don&#039;t use it think they don&#039;t need it. Hello??? You think the 110,000 cars that drive on it every day are just going to stay home?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Well, when the viaduct was closed for several weekdays for inspection after the Nisqually earthquake, I-5 came to a virtual halt at rush hour, as did 1st Ave, 4th Ave, Dexter Ave, Alaskan Way, Marginal Way, and every viable alternative. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s funny how people who don&#8217;t use it think they don&#8217;t need it. Hello??? You think the 110,000 cars that drive on it every day are just going to stay home?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Kate Martin</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25630</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25630</guid>
		<description>The 2 lane each direction tunnel--- which I liken to $4B indoor plumbing for the s**t verses the outhouse we currently use, either way it’s the same crap going through the system.  I wonder if as they&#039;re studying Rapid Ride for Aurora Ave N if it isn&#039;t okay now to take more of the right of way for sidewalks, transit, bike lanes, bus lanes and buffer?  That way the Mercer Mess can go down to 2 lanes each direction instead of 3 and we can get the bottleneck out of the way at the source which is when the cars are still in their garages and not delay it until South Lake Union / Uptown.   

Where on earth is the message to get out of your car in all this?  Yikes.   By the way, did you see the elephant in the room moon walking through that press conference with Gregoire, Sims, and Nickels?</description>
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The 2 lane each direction tunnel&#8212; which I liken to $4B indoor plumbing for the s**t verses the outhouse we currently use, either way it’s the same crap going through the system.  I wonder if as they&#8217;re studying Rapid Ride for Aurora Ave N if it isn&#8217;t okay now to take more of the right of way for sidewalks, transit, bike lanes, bus lanes and buffer?  That way the Mercer Mess can go down to 2 lanes each direction instead of 3 and we can get the bottleneck out of the way at the source which is when the cars are still in their garages and not delay it until South Lake Union / Uptown.   </p>
<p>Where on earth is the message to get out of your car in all this?  Yikes.   By the way, did you see the elephant in the room moon walking through that press conference with Gregoire, Sims, and Nickels?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Lor Scara</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25595</link>
		<dc:creator>Lor Scara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25595</guid>
		<description>A couple of alternate routes on the above.

After crossing I5 on Madison, turn north following Broadway, connecting to UW link at the Capitol Hill Station. At the Brooklyn station. seperate from North Link, and head West on 45th as per the above alignment.

Instead of continuing from UW Bothell to Woodinville, Follow 405 North West with a station at Canyon Park and Alderwood Mall, then follow 525 North with stations at 99 and the Mukilteo Ferry Terminal. This alignment gives us another intersection with Link (probably ST3), Sounder, and ESR (assuming that ESR is extended also to the UW Bothell campus)</description>
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A couple of alternate routes on the above.</p>
<p>After crossing I5 on Madison, turn north following Broadway, connecting to UW link at the Capitol Hill Station. At the Brooklyn station. seperate from North Link, and head West on 45th as per the above alignment.</p>
<p>Instead of continuing from UW Bothell to Woodinville, Follow 405 North West with a station at Canyon Park and Alderwood Mall, then follow 525 North with stations at 99 and the Mukilteo Ferry Terminal. This alignment gives us another intersection with Link (probably ST3), Sounder, and ESR (assuming that ESR is extended also to the UW Bothell campus)<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike D</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25588</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25588</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s ludicrous. When has consensus EVER been faster than decisions with limited decisionmakers? &quot;i.e. too many cooks in the kitchen&quot; or &quot;too many chiefs not enough [native americans.]&quot;</description>
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That&#8217;s ludicrous. When has consensus EVER been faster than decisions with limited decisionmakers? &#8220;i.e. too many cooks in the kitchen&#8221; or &#8220;too many chiefs not enough [native americans.]&#8220;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Streetsblog &#187; What Might Cities Look Like in a World Without Oil?</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25577</link>
		<dc:creator>Streetsblog &#187; What Might Cities Look Like in a World Without Oil?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25577</guid>
		<description>[...] The Bus Bench on buses gone wild in LA, no love for a tunnel from Seattle Transit Blog, and 51 bright ideas for the new president from The Sustainable Cities [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[...] The Bus Bench on buses gone wild in LA, no love for a tunnel from Seattle Transit Blog, and 51 bright ideas for the new president from The Sustainable Cities [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Matt the Engineer</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25572</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt the Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25572</guid>
		<description>Why would this tunnel need to be so deep?  Put it near the level of the bus tunnel, put light rail on the top level of the tunnel, and use the bus tunnel&#039;s street access - you&#039;d just need to ride up one more set of escalators.</description>
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Why would this tunnel need to be so deep?  Put it near the level of the bus tunnel, put light rail on the top level of the tunnel, and use the bus tunnel&#8217;s street access &#8211; you&#8217;d just need to ride up one more set of escalators.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Streetsblog &#187; Streetsblog.net What Might Cities Look Like in a World Without Oil?</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25554</link>
		<dc:creator>Streetsblog &#187; Streetsblog.net What Might Cities Look Like in a World Without Oil?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25554</guid>
		<description>[...] The Bus Bench on buses gone wild in LA, no love for a tunnel from Seattle Transit Blog, and 51 bright ideas for the new president from The Sustainable Cities [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[...] The Bus Bench on buses gone wild in LA, no love for a tunnel from Seattle Transit Blog, and 51 bright ideas for the new president from The Sustainable Cities [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25509</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25509</guid>
		<description>WSDOT has a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/eesc/cae/DesignVisualization/desviz.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Design Visualization Group&lt;/a&gt; that does these kinds of things. They had simulation videos for the viaduct options for at least a year now. I cannot recall if they used a private company to do the downtown 3-D model for them or not, shame on me for not paying attention in class.</description>
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WSDOT has a <a href="http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/eesc/cae/DesignVisualization/desviz.htm" rel="nofollow">Design Visualization Group</a> that does these kinds of things. They had simulation videos for the viaduct options for at least a year now. I cannot recall if they used a private company to do the downtown 3-D model for them or not, shame on me for not paying attention in class.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Daniel K</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25488</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 06:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25488</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a very interesting video.

Also interesting that it is from WSDOT.  I wonder how long it took to make and when the effort to make it was initiated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
That&#8217;s a very interesting video.</p>
<p>Also interesting that it is from WSDOT.  I wonder how long it took to make and when the effort to make it was initiated.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25449</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 04:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25449</guid>
		<description>Adding size to this tunnel may be difficult. If this tunnel were to be built, it would be the largest diameter tunnel in the world (54&#039;, current record is 52&#039; in Madrid).

Second issue: getting out of the tunnel. I assume you want LR to stop downtown, which means 160&#039; elevators. Yes, they pulled something like that off on Beacon Hill, but I have to imagine that it might present some trouble downtown. A new LR tunnel really should be close to the surface.

Third issue: it is absolutely vital that a Ballard to West Seattle Line INTERSECT the existing transit tunnel to facilitate easy transfers. That was one of the major problems with the monorail - it did not integrate well with the existing transit system.</description>
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Adding size to this tunnel may be difficult. If this tunnel were to be built, it would be the largest diameter tunnel in the world (54&#8242;, current record is 52&#8242; in Madrid).</p>
<p>Second issue: getting out of the tunnel. I assume you want LR to stop downtown, which means 160&#8242; elevators. Yes, they pulled something like that off on Beacon Hill, but I have to imagine that it might present some trouble downtown. A new LR tunnel really should be close to the surface.</p>
<p>Third issue: it is absolutely vital that a Ballard to West Seattle Line INTERSECT the existing transit tunnel to facilitate easy transfers. That was one of the major problems with the monorail &#8211; it did not integrate well with the existing transit system.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25437</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25437</guid>
		<description>Thank you JoshMahar.  Sam commented earlier that many are having difficulty seeing the forest from the trees.  You&#039;ve correctly and perfectly shown what others seem incapable of seeing - if we keep building highways &quot;we are doomed to decline dramatically in the decades to come&quot;  People:  Look ahead to the 2050s, not back to the 1950s, please!</description>
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Thank you JoshMahar.  Sam commented earlier that many are having difficulty seeing the forest from the trees.  You&#8217;ve correctly and perfectly shown what others seem incapable of seeing &#8211; if we keep building highways &#8220;we are doomed to decline dramatically in the decades to come&#8221;  People:  Look ahead to the 2050s, not back to the 1950s, please!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/13/i-hate-this-tunnel/#comment-25395</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=2118#comment-25395</guid>
		<description>It will worsen the already (IMHO) ridiculous RR West Seattle plan.  The current proposed RR route uses the viaduct, of which the bus would exit at Seneca.  It&#039;s immediately right downtown.  No surface street travel after West Seattle but for a block or two (hey, just like the current 54X!).

Based on the graphic video I&#039;ve seen, the &quot;new&quot; RR bus route would exit at Royal Brougham, travel surface streets through Pioneer Square (already a roadblock during rush hour) even if there&#039;s no stops until the downtown &quot;core&quot; and have to deal with the extra vehicular traffic that will not be using the tunnel (since it&#039;s down to two lanes with exits only before and after downtown) to get downtown.  This is not faster.  Only faster if dedicated bus lanes are installed (maybe it will use the bus corridor through SODO, even so, it&#039;s got to get on surface streets at some point) and lights are timed to let buses through and there&#039;s absolutely no traffic backups ever.</description>
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It will worsen the already (IMHO) ridiculous RR West Seattle plan.  The current proposed RR route uses the viaduct, of which the bus would exit at Seneca.  It&#8217;s immediately right downtown.  No surface street travel after West Seattle but for a block or two (hey, just like the current 54X!).</p>
<p>Based on the graphic video I&#8217;ve seen, the &#8220;new&#8221; RR bus route would exit at Royal Brougham, travel surface streets through Pioneer Square (already a roadblock during rush hour) even if there&#8217;s no stops until the downtown &#8220;core&#8221; and have to deal with the extra vehicular traffic that will not be using the tunnel (since it&#8217;s down to two lanes with exits only before and after downtown) to get downtown.  This is not faster.  Only faster if dedicated bus lanes are installed (maybe it will use the bus corridor through SODO, even so, it&#8217;s got to get on surface streets at some point) and lights are timed to let buses through and there&#8217;s absolutely no traffic backups ever.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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