Comments on: Why can’t I take a shuttle to the Mariners game? http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/ Transit in the Greater Seattle Area Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:58:11 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Senator Murray Comes Through Again - Seattle Transit Blog http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-88655 Senator Murray Comes Through Again - Seattle Transit Blog Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:17:02 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-88655 [...] of the P-I, Sen. Patty Murray has included a provision in the transportation bill that reverses the Bush-era decision to effectively eliminate special event bus service to the Mariners and Seahawks.  It still has to [...] [...] of the P-I, Sen. Patty Murray has included a provision in the transportation bill that reverses the Bush-era decision to effectively eliminate special event bus service to the Mariners and Seahawks.  It still has to [...]

]]> By: Obama Admin. Moves to Regulate Local Rail, Buses - Seattle Transit Blog http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-84295 Obama Admin. Moves to Regulate Local Rail, Buses - Seattle Transit Blog Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:42:24 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-84295 [...] (Consider the history of federal regulation of intercity rail, or the Bush FTA’s heinous decision to effectively kill special bus service to sporting events.)  Even well-intentioned rules can end [...] [...] (Consider the history of federal regulation of intercity rail, or the Bush FTA’s heinous decision to effectively kill special bus service to sporting events.)  Even well-intentioned rules can end [...]

]]> By: Metro to the Mariners Once Again? - Seattle Transit Blog http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-69944 Metro to the Mariners Once Again? - Seattle Transit Blog Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:40:52 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-69944 [...] Subcommittee, and she’s inserted language in the bill that would roll back a rule we’ve written about before – a rule preventing public transit agencies from providing (subsidized) bus service to [...] [...] Subcommittee, and she’s inserted language in the bill that would roll back a rule we’ve written about before – a rule preventing public transit agencies from providing (subsidized) bus service to [...]

]]> By: Stupid No-Compete Fed Rule Hurts Schools - Seattle Transit Blog http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-48380 Stupid No-Compete Fed Rule Hurts Schools - Seattle Transit Blog Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:03:36 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-48380 [...] is old news, but the ridiculous Bush-era holdover rule that prohibits public transit agencies from competing with private coach operators for sporting events also applies to public school buses. Many school districts that have high schools well served by [...] [...] is old news, but the ridiculous Bush-era holdover rule that prohibits public transit agencies from competing with private coach operators for sporting events also applies to public school buses. Many school districts that have high schools well served by [...]

]]> By: cuyahoga http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39464 cuyahoga Tue, 14 Apr 2009 03:28:47 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39464 I would just like to point out that this same rule also effects the Seahawks and UW football games. I would just like to point out that this same rule also effects the Seahawks and UW football games.

]]> By: Bernie http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39451 Bernie Tue, 14 Apr 2009 02:15:26 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39451 Obviously fans aren't riding from a Metro Base but I'd hope the buses are coming from the base closest to the pick-up and return point. That's got to be a whole lot better than deadheading all the way back to Federal Way or the eastside. I'm curious about the game time "out of service", do drivers get paid, paid straight time, OT or is there just a free admission bonus? The free admission might violate union rules but it seems like it would be a good deal for the Mariners and maybe a good deal for the drivers (free tickets that would count as nontaxable income since it is a work requirement that you attend the game). Obviously fans aren’t riding from a Metro Base but I’d hope the buses are coming from the base closest to the pick-up and return point. That’s got to be a whole lot better than deadheading all the way back to Federal Way or the eastside. I’m curious about the game time “out of service”, do drivers get paid, paid straight time, OT or is there just a free admission bonus? The free admission might violate union rules but it seems like it would be a good deal for the Mariners and maybe a good deal for the drivers (free tickets that would count as nontaxable income since it is a work requirement that you attend the game).

]]> By: The Dude http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39449 The Dude Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:56:37 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39449 deadhead is there - have to get to the pick-up points, then are out of service until end of gain, drop off and deadhead back deadhead is there – have to get to the pick-up points, then are out of service until end of gain, drop off and deadhead back

]]> By: EvergreenRailfan http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39444 EvergreenRailfan Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:04:43 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39444 Plus, these stadiums are built mostly with Public Money, often using blackmail tactics(build it or we leave town, and the voters will blame the mayor), the public should be able to use public resources to serve them. Few stadiums in baseball are built cheap, unless it is a minor league park, like Midway Stadium in St. Paul where the Independent Northern League St. Paul Saints play, cost $3 million to build, only seats 6000 though. Plus, these stadiums are built mostly with Public Money, often using blackmail tactics(build it or we leave town, and the voters will blame the mayor), the public should be able to use public resources to serve them. Few stadiums in baseball are built cheap, unless it is a minor league park, like Midway Stadium in St. Paul where the Independent Northern League St. Paul Saints play, cost $3 million to build, only seats 6000 though.

]]> By: Bernie http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39442 Bernie Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:44:51 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39442 This article "<a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008025764_webmariners30m.html" rel="nofollow">Metro to continue shuttle service to Mariners games</a>" claims Metro breaks even on the special shuttles. One commentor in the King5 article claimed (with no supporting evidence) that the $3 ride actually cost $15 to provide and tax payers were making up the difference. The fares plus the Mariners $150,000 contribution netted Metro about $350,000. Starline was asking for $560,000. That would double the price of the tickets ($6) assuming the Mariners didn't kick in additional money. Still cheaper than parking. Good ole Wikipedia provides the following: <blockquote> In 2007 it cost $3.64 per boarding to deliver service in the West (Seattle) subarea, $4.79 in the South subarea and $7.27 in the East subarea of King County. </blockquote> It seems ticket prices could go up and probably should be quite a bit more coming from the eastside (like a two zone fare). Still, it seems within reason that Metro, with the Mariners contribution breaks even on the deal. Metro of course has an advantage in the buses capital costs are being ignored. I have an issue too with considering a Mariners game a private event. This isn't a Skull & Bones meeting, an Elks convention or even a Boy Scout Jamboree. Anyone can buy a ticket and there's about as broad a cross section at a baseball game as you'll find anywhere in America. The buses were bought with public money and clearly the public wants to use that investment to get to the games. I hear the arguement for unfair competition but is this any different than the State offering campsites at State Parks that compete with private campgrounds? Isn't the stadium district public land? This article “Metro to continue shuttle service to Mariners games” claims Metro breaks even on the special shuttles. One commentor in the King5 article claimed (with no supporting evidence) that the $3 ride actually cost $15 to provide and tax payers were making up the difference. The fares plus the Mariners $150,000 contribution netted Metro about $350,000. Starline was asking for $560,000. That would double the price of the tickets ($6) assuming the Mariners didn’t kick in additional money. Still cheaper than parking.

Good ole Wikipedia provides the following:

In 2007 it cost $3.64 per boarding to deliver service in the West (Seattle) subarea, $4.79 in the South subarea and $7.27 in the East subarea of King County.

It seems ticket prices could go up and probably should be quite a bit more coming from the eastside (like a two zone fare). Still, it seems within reason that Metro, with the Mariners contribution breaks even on the deal. Metro of course has an advantage in the buses capital costs are being ignored.

I have an issue too with considering a Mariners game a private event. This isn’t a Skull & Bones meeting, an Elks convention or even a Boy Scout Jamboree. Anyone can buy a ticket and there’s about as broad a cross section at a baseball game as you’ll find anywhere in America. The buses were bought with public money and clearly the public wants to use that investment to get to the games. I hear the arguement for unfair competition but is this any different than the State offering campsites at State Parks that compete with private campgrounds? Isn’t the stadium district public land?

]]> By: Andrew Smith http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39437 Andrew Smith Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:26:36 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39437 Wikipedia has a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshima_Electric_Railway" rel="nofollow">photo of the 651 derailed</a> by the bomb and its current state, still in service. Wikipedia has a photo of the 651 derailed by the bomb and its current state, still in service.

]]> By: ericn http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39436 ericn Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:25:14 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39436 <a href="http://ussmariner.com/2009/04/12/bush-reg-feds-end-metro-special-service-to-games/" rel="nofollow">USS Mariner</a> also has a post about this from a non-transit perspective. The comments are extremely pro-shuttle, which is encouraging. Still, I can't wait until Link gets expanded to serve multiple shuttle P&Rs. USS Mariner also has a post about this from a non-transit perspective. The comments are extremely pro-shuttle, which is encouraging. Still, I can’t wait until Link gets expanded to serve multiple shuttle P&Rs.

]]> By: Andrew Smith http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39435 Andrew Smith Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:23:38 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39435 It's also decent advertising for metro as well. It’s also decent advertising for metro as well.

]]> By: EvergreenRailfan http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39429 EvergreenRailfan Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:23:32 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39429 According to Starline's CEO, can't blame here, blame the Mariners for abandoning their fans. <b> The Mariners are not required to provide transportation to games, but Starline complains the team is playing hardball. "I think the Mariners are motivated to walk away from any commitment to getting the fans to and from Seattle and their previous commitment to reduce congestion and traffic and parking," Starline CEO Gladys Gillis said. </b> http://www.king5.com/sports/mariners/stories/NW_041009SPB-mariners-bus-service-KS.c09ae329.html Last year, she(the Starline CEO) insulted ATU Local 587, this year the Seattle Mariners. At least ATU Local 587 for better or worse fights for their members.(They have to represent them at disciplinary actions, even if the driver broke safety rules) Local 587 has done other things besides fight for higher driver pay, benefits, and that includes organizing the memorial service for a driver killed on the job. As for insulting the Mariners for refusing to take her offer, can't she take a rejected bid. There should be other criteria. Now SF MUNI put out to bid restoration of Car No.1, only one bidder was allowed to bid, but that was because MUNI had some criteria, including a new one, a bond. THey want the car back next year, and they are worried about the company folding. (Brookeville Equipment won that one, by the way). According to Starline’s CEO, can’t blame here, blame the Mariners for abandoning their fans.

The Mariners are not required to provide transportation to games, but Starline complains the team is playing hardball.

“I think the Mariners are motivated to walk away from any commitment to getting the fans to and from Seattle and their previous commitment to reduce congestion and traffic and parking,” Starline CEO Gladys Gillis said.

http://www.king5.com/sports/mariners/stories/NW_041009SPB-mariners-bus-service-KS.c09ae329.html

Last year, she(the Starline CEO) insulted ATU Local 587, this year the Seattle Mariners. At least ATU Local 587 for better or worse fights for their members.(They have to represent them at disciplinary actions, even if the driver broke safety rules) Local 587 has done other things besides fight for higher driver pay, benefits, and that includes organizing the memorial service for a driver killed on the job.

As for insulting the Mariners for refusing to take her offer, can’t she take a rejected bid. There should be other criteria. Now SF MUNI put out to bid restoration of Car No.1, only one bidder was allowed to bid, but that was because MUNI had some criteria, including a new one, a bond. THey want the car back next year, and they are worried about the company folding. (Brookeville Equipment won that one, by the way).

]]> By: Squints http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39426 Squints Mon, 13 Apr 2009 22:37:27 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39426 Best kept secret in overseas travel :) Best kept secret in overseas travel :)

]]> By: Zach http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39414 Zach Mon, 13 Apr 2009 21:56:35 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39414 Right, check your inbox, Andrew! Right, check your inbox, Andrew!

]]> By: EvergreenRailfan http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39413 EvergreenRailfan Mon, 13 Apr 2009 21:49:11 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39413 I just got this news release pertaining to SOUNDER Home Run Services. The first train runs on April 19th. http://www.soundtransit.org/x10989.xml I just got this news release pertaining to SOUNDER Home Run Services. The first train runs on April 19th.

http://www.soundtransit.org/x10989.xml

]]> By: lavarock http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39411 lavarock Mon, 13 Apr 2009 21:24:15 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39411 Will this effect the extra buses they put on the 594 going north pregame and then south postgame? Will this effect the extra buses they put on the 594 going north pregame and then south postgame?

]]> By: Mike B http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39395 Mike B Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:51:49 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39395 The government seems to forget that we've already paid for Metro, Sound Transit, etc though sales tax. Why should we have to pay twice for the same service? The government seems to forget that we’ve already paid for Metro, Sound Transit, etc though sales tax. Why should we have to pay twice for the same service?

]]> By: Chris Stefan http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39394 Chris Stefan Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:50:33 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39394 I believe the rail services are exempt from the rule. So Sound Transit could run special Sounder service for Sounders games ("ride the Sounder to see the Sounders"). Not sure what sort of agreements there are between Sound Transit and say the Mariners or the Seahawks for special Sounder service. I assume a similar agreement would need to be made with the Sounders FC for special service. The bright spot is in 3 months people will be able to ride Link to Mariners, Sounders, and Seahawks games. I believe the rail services are exempt from the rule. So Sound Transit could run special Sounder service for Sounders games (“ride the Sounder to see the Sounders”).

Not sure what sort of agreements there are between Sound Transit and say the Mariners or the Seahawks for special Sounder service. I assume a similar agreement would need to be made with the Sounders FC for special service.

The bright spot is in 3 months people will be able to ride Link to Mariners, Sounders, and Seahawks games.

]]> By: Gary http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/13/why-cant-i-take-the-bus-to-the-mariners-game/#comment-39388 Gary Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:26:33 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=4307#comment-39388 It is a stupid rule. On one side of the coin you can claim that the city/transit shouldn't be allowed to subsidize sports. But look the stadium itself is a huge subsidy! And we could claim that businesses who employees ride transit to work are subsidized by Metro even though there are private carriers that "could" bid on it. On the other side of the coin, hasn't the region already contributed enough toward professional sports by providing the stadium? So shouldn't a private carrier be allowed to bid for the contract?.. Of course, I'd prohibit a private carrier from using a public park & ride without paying... Still, what is the point of public transit if we can't ride it to the things we want to go see/do? It is a stupid rule.

On one side of the coin you can claim that the city/transit shouldn’t be allowed to subsidize sports. But look the stadium itself is a huge subsidy!

And we could claim that businesses who employees ride transit to work are subsidized by Metro even though there are private carriers that “could” bid on it.

On the other side of the coin, hasn’t the region already contributed enough toward professional sports by providing the stadium? So shouldn’t a private carrier be allowed to bid for the contract?.. Of course, I’d prohibit a private carrier from using a public park & ride without paying…

Still, what is the point of public transit if we can’t ride it to the things we want to go see/do?

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