Comments on: P-I: Metro Assaults are Up

By: Bus Violence - Seattle Transit Blog

Bus Violence - Seattle Transit Blog — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:06:12 +0000

[...] on about a half dozen routes, it’s not only drivers who regularly face personal violence. Most transit assault victims are [...]

By: Lloyd

Lloyd — Thu, 14 May 2009 01:55:12 +0000

It is a fact of life in the city, indeed. This is NOT Bellevue; real cities are up late at night w/ all sorts wandering around. I’ve been a Metro pass carrier (now ORCA!) since 1980 and have seen one fight (on a #55 on the Viaduct no less) but more than a bus load or ten of weirdos of all kinds over the years. KC Sherifs should be much more visible on buses and in the tunnel – SPD as well on a “rental” basis spot checking troublesome areas. Hopefully if two car trains are running at night, there’ll be security in the 2nd car; again, police presence would be far superior.

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Wed, 13 May 2009 22:07:14 +0000

I’m not surprised to see the 358 or the 174 on the list. By far the majority of the scary/weird on-board incidents I’ve witnessed or been involved in are on those routes.

The 174 at least seems to be a bit mellower during the day. The 358 is a zoo even during peak commute hours.

Kind of surprised to see the 7 there, I’ve never really had a problem on that route any time of day or night.

The 3 & 4 can be a bit strange, but not typically in a scary way. I’ve had some interesting times on the #2 through Belltown too, mostly due to drunk/high homeless people. The First Hill/CD portion of the route was never a problem for me though.

I have to agree with those complaining about security along 3rd between Pike and Stewart. There really needs to be a visible police presence on those blocks between 5 PM and Midnight. Another area that can get pretty sketchy is the Union/ID Station area along Jackson after 5 PM.

By: John

John — Wed, 13 May 2009 13:38:03 +0000

The streetcar won’t take away Harborview :) As a relatively regular #3 rider (one of my two quickest routes downtown) I can say that most of the craziness I see on the 3 is totally Harborview-related.

By: Oran

Oran — Wed, 13 May 2009 07:04:10 +0000

The 194 isn’t an option after 9:30 pm when it stops running. On weekends it’s worse when the last trips on Saturday and Sunday are at 9:00 pm and 7:30 pm, respectively.

The 174 takes forever to get downtown and stops much more often, increasing your risk.

It’s a good thing Metro had a sign at the airport telling last week’s APTA conference attendees to take the 194 to downtown.

By: Oran

Oran — Wed, 13 May 2009 06:57:06 +0000

Unless, of course, the ORCA reader is down (= free ride, usually) but I hope they get those issues fixed.

At least paper transfers between agencies are going away this fall. Kitsap Transit plans to eliminate paper transfers. Everett Transit hasn’t had or accepted paper transfers since 2006. It’s a few steps towards a cashless, paperless fare collection system.

By: geekgirl

geekgirl — Wed, 13 May 2009 06:53:56 +0000

Well, I thought we were, but I get most of my transit info from this blog! The ORCA site just talks about the elimination of interagency transfers. Maybe metro is still going to have them for bus to bus? It’d be smart to get rid of them. Lots of people at the PI site were calling for the elimination of the Ride Free Area as the solution to crime. I think eliminating paper transfers would be similar but better, as the RFA has schedule and tourism benefits.

By: John

John — Wed, 13 May 2009 04:49:20 +0000

Oh that’s great news! I miss the back windows – they make the back of the bus feel more open, even if it’s just as crowded.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 13 May 2009 02:16:28 +0000

Good point, I hadn’t really considered that. Are we really getting rid of paper transfers?

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 13 May 2009 02:15:55 +0000

Sheesh, the 174! Take the 194, you get more business professionals. :)

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 13 May 2009 02:14:36 +0000

Are you on First Hill? Would the streetcar help you eventually?

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 13 May 2009 02:13:06 +0000

Fair enough. Light rail will have more people around in general, plus shorter wait times, so it should be safer, at least.

By: geekgirl

geekgirl — Wed, 13 May 2009 02:02:32 +0000

I wonder if the full implementation of ORCA and the elimination of paper transfers will have any effect on crime. I suspect that at least some of the people who cause trouble on buses are the people who get a transfer and use it all day because drivers rarely check the time the transfer expires. With ORCA the potential to ride cheaply and abuse the transfer is gone, which might decrease the number of troublemakers on the bus.

By: Jeff Welch

Jeff Welch — Tue, 12 May 2009 21:59:40 +0000

Mike,

Ever since cell phones, I’ve decided I’ll file an SIR even if I’m tired. Nothing worse than one or more anonymous calls describing distorted memories of an incident you never reported.

By: Jeff Welch

Jeff Welch — Tue, 12 May 2009 21:57:21 +0000

If the driver “locked the bus” you need to tell someone about this. Drivers are not to detain anyone. The exact wording of the policy is “Do not detain anyone, under any circumstances.” If the driver was attempting to keep people on-site until security arrived – they were in gross violation of procedure. Tell someone.

Actual procedure in the case of an on-board conflict is to stop the bus – preferably at a regular stop – and open both doors to allow the perpetrators and/or bystanders egress. What you appear to be describing is a termination-level offense.

By: Jeff Welch

Jeff Welch — Tue, 12 May 2009 21:53:24 +0000

While drivers aboard busses tend to be largely powerless to deal with on-board issues, if they’re at least aware of them they can take some action (calling for help, pulling the bus over, intervening verbally). This tends to be a bigger an issue the longer the bus as incidents retreat out of the driver’s view.

The “out of sight” of the one quasi-authority figure who will be aboard every train will very much be a security issue on-board the new trains, which is why an active security presence will be necessary to ensure rider safety.

By: Jeff Welch

Jeff Welch — Tue, 12 May 2009 21:50:30 +0000

Imagine how the driver must have felt. Taking the taxi tends not to be an option for the guy/gal behind the wheel.

By: Jojo

Jojo — Tue, 12 May 2009 17:37:19 +0000

Well I guess I’m not surprised about the 174. I tried saving money by taking that instead of a cab from the airport to downtown…boy will i never do that again!!

Some thug cornered me on the bus and tried to steal my iPod. I broke free, but then he started chasing me around Westlake Plaza and didn’t stop until I had to scream. The sad part was that despite all the people on the bus or outside, nobody helped or seemed to notice.

Obviously the number of reported crimes on the bus are lower than they actually are. I’m sure there are more people like me who never thought of reporting an assault…just focusing on trying to escape! So since then I’ve always avoided the bus. And if I HAD to, I’d sit up front (the assault happened in the back).

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Tue, 12 May 2009 17:02:31 +0000

It’s not safe to assume that. Just like discussions of ‘where car trips will go’ if we tore down the viaduct, or ‘what ridership will be’ on a line that goes through low density, there’s a basic assumption underlying your comment that ignores changes in land use or in trips.

There *will* be gentrification along Link. Some of the people causing those incidents will move to other routes. Some of them will do better financially or have new opportunities and get their lives together. More than anything, the opportunities will be there for fewer new kids to become violent adults. I think it’s safe to assume that the number of incidents per passenger mile will decrease dramatically with Link.

By: Jessica

Jessica — Tue, 12 May 2009 16:57:17 +0000

(yes, I was still in a wheelchair at the time)