Comments on: Sub-Regionalism Run Amok

By: ericn

ericn — Fri, 22 May 2009 05:01:23 +0000

To figure out distances, go to Google Maps and click the ‘My Maps’ link on the left side. You’ll see a link called ‘Distance Measurement Tool.’ From there, all you have to do is click on the map a few times, and it will tell you the total distance of the path.

By: Jon Morgan

Jon Morgan — Fri, 22 May 2009 03:43:09 +0000

I can tell you there’s a pretty strong consensus among pedestrian advocates that smaller blocks are better.

My Google abilities are a bit stunted (and I’m a policy wonk, not a techie ;). How do you figure out a distance like that 1800 foot one?

I’ll hope that 405 is someday narrowed or buried, as I do for I-5 in central Seattle.

By: Jon Morgan

Jon Morgan — Fri, 22 May 2009 03:36:59 +0000

Did you by chance attend Danish architect/designer Helle Soholt’s awesome talk at UW a couple weeks ago? I haven’t been to Bellevue in 10 years, but I can say plenty on Seattle–and Bellevue needs to be looking to do much of the same stuff Seattle does. Putting in a new Viaduct or I-405 would be exactly what NOT to do. Seattle has a long way to go on walkability, bikeability, and great active public spaces. But these noisy, ugly, obtrusive barriers like the Viaduct and other highways are part of the problem. Soholt found that the busiest pedestrian spot in the city is Westlake Park, with about 26,000 daily. That’s a fraction of what Copenhagen has, and there are lots of wasted places and opportunities. Both Seattle and Bellevue, as well as other cities in the region, can and must create great, vibrant public spaces that attract thousands of pedestrians.

By: Andrew Smith

Andrew Smith — Thu, 21 May 2009 20:29:52 +0000

6 years is still too long. You’re still asking Kemper Freeman to cough $15 million a year. Do it over on year or over six, it’s still too much.

They may be able to get something like $100 million total from a LID in downtown Bellevue, but that’s it. The area is just too small to raise $600 million in it over any reasonable amount of time.

By: DCodomo

DCodomo — Thu, 21 May 2009 17:51:44 +0000

I agree, if anything an at-grade option is the noisiest, with all the annoying crossing bells.

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Thu, 21 May 2009 15:15:45 +0000

The LID wouldn’t need to pay for the full $600 million in year 1. Even if bonds aren’t sold ST won’t necessarily need the money all at once. If you take the tax over even 6 years you only need $100 million per year. Sell 20 year bonds and you need about $50 million per year once financing costs are factored in.

For that matter Bellevue might have enough councilmatic bonding capacity to be able to fund a majority of the tunnel costs by just issuing General Obligation Bonds. (this is how Seattle paid for the Municipal tower, Justice Center, and new City Hall)

By: andrew smith

andrew smith — Thu, 21 May 2009 06:54:59 +0000

That’s definitely true. I hope they place them at the corners: the platforms have to be 400 feet long just to support the trains!

By: ericn

ericn — Thu, 21 May 2009 06:46:52 +0000

Good point about the lights. That’s probably why it takes so long for the 271 to get through downtown Bellevue too.

The proposed tunnel station will be at a corner (NE 6th and 108th), so the Manhattan distance to/from it will be about the same regardless of block length—this depends on where ST puts the station entrances, of course.

By: Andrew Smith

Andrew Smith — Thu, 21 May 2009 06:30:19 +0000

Well, honestly, what street in DT bellevue is a thriving plaza today? I was on the 230 through dt bellevue at 5:30 pm on a tuesday and I counted exactly 7 people on the street who weren’t smoking or waiting at the Bellevue transit center. And it was a nice day that day.

Seven people. It’s 11:30 pm right now and there’s more than that walking on the street in front of my house in the U district.

By: Andrew Smith

Andrew Smith — Thu, 21 May 2009 06:25:46 +0000

Those lights seem significantly longer, especially with the four-passed signals. A pedestrian there really only has one section of the signal period, with the two turn signals and the two straight on signals. And no jay-walking: there’s always cars and the streets are way wide.

Also that manhattan geometry only counts if you’re starting from a corner. Start at the middle of a LONG block, and you sometimes have to walk an extra half a long ass block.

By: ericn

ericn — Thu, 21 May 2009 06:12:28 +0000

Block length shouldn’t matter, since the Manhattan Distance is the same regardless of block size. Plus long blocks mean fewer crosswalks to wait at, so a faster walk for the same distance.

The real issue with having one station is that the residential area on Main Street west of Bellevue Way (south of Downtown Park) is kind of far away. A circulator bus/streetcar would fix that, though.

By: Andrew Smith

Andrew Smith — Thu, 21 May 2009 04:35:15 +0000

I think you would only need one station in DT bellevue if the blocks weren’t so long. When you’re dealing with 1000 foot blocks, however, a 2000′ as the bird flies walk could be 3000′ or maybe more.

By: ericn

ericn — Thu, 21 May 2009 03:28:22 +0000

Google Maps says the proposed tunnel station would be 1800 feet from 405. That’s not quite half a mile, but you have to remember that the station is equally far from 405 and Bellevue Square. Bellevue Square + Downtown Park is so big that moving the station farther west won’t get you much extra room for TOD, and would make it harder/more expensive to get the train back over 405 to Bel-Red.

By: Jon Morgan

Jon Morgan — Thu, 21 May 2009 02:40:50 +0000

But will it occupy the full 1/2 mile radius from the station, or will some of that land get wasted on proximity to the highway?

I don’t disagree on siting it in downtown Bellevue, just would like it nudged away from the highway if possible. Or better yet, change the highway. Admittedly, I’m not really familiar with Bellevue though.

By: alexjonlin

alexjonlin — Thu, 21 May 2009 01:37:36 +0000

DT Bellevue is close to I-405, so that’s the best place to put it.

By: ericn

ericn — Thu, 21 May 2009 00:35:03 +0000

I wouldn’t worry too much about TOD; it’s already happening. There are currently at least four big residential towers (two on the same superblock as the convention center, two on the same superblock as the Galleria) opening in the near future within a block of Bellevue Transit Center. There are also a bunch of new condos being built around NE 8th-12th, but those are also fairly close to I-405 and might even be better served by Ashwood/Hospital station.

By: Jon Morgan

Jon Morgan — Wed, 20 May 2009 23:52:54 +0000

it’s not exactly a thriving plaza either.

By: Jon Morgan

Jon Morgan — Wed, 20 May 2009 23:51:09 +0000

Isn’t that like asking why we all have to pay for the Viaduct replacement?

By: Jon Morgan

Jon Morgan — Wed, 20 May 2009 23:49:14 +0000

The idea that light rail is noisy is just obnoxious. Rail is quieter than bus service, and highways produce massive amounts of noise. If that’s their issue, they should bury 405 instead.

By: Jon Morgan

Jon Morgan — Wed, 20 May 2009 23:44:20 +0000

There should be no sub-regions to begin with. They’re only there for political expediency (placate Eastsiders to vote for ST). If Bellevue wants a tunnel, that’s fine, but they should pay for it. I remember a similar battle in the 90s in St. Louis. Clayton insisted on a tunnel, but the regional agency couldn’t afford it. Clayton was told they could have a tunnel if they found a way to pay for it themselves. They did, and their tunnel opened a couple years ago. http://www.cmt-stl.org

I’m really concerned that the main Bellevue station in any alignment is too close to I-405 to facilitate good TOD.