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	<title>Comments on: Time to Re-Think Zoning</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-48334</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-48334</guid>
		<description>Zipcar wasn&#039;t a real deal for me either. I end up renting from a traditional rental car company (Budget, Enterprise, etc), truck place (Budget, U-Haul) or taking a taxi if I don&#039;t need to haul much and don&#039;t need a vehicle for all-day or longer.</description>
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Zipcar wasn&#8217;t a real deal for me either. I end up renting from a traditional rental car company (Budget, Enterprise, etc), truck place (Budget, U-Haul) or taking a taxi if I don&#8217;t need to haul much and don&#8217;t need a vehicle for all-day or longer.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-48279</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-48279</guid>
		<description>I looked into Zipcar.  Owning my car is cheaper than Zipcar, even if I throw out their stupid comparison.  The major problem is that even if I only need to use the car for say, two hours, I still need to pay for the duration that I have it.  An all day trip could cost more than $60.  Here&#039;s their (monthly) comparison:

Car payment (including depreciation):  	$283
Finance charges: 	$62
Insurance: 	$80
Gas: 	$78
License, registration, taxes: 	$45
Maintenance and tires: 	$46
Parking: 	$175

My real monthly totals:
Car payment: $0
Depretation: negligible
Finance charges: N/A
Insurance: Don&#039;t remember the exact amount, but slightly less than their quote
Gas: $30 if I&#039;m lucky
License/registration: Whatever tabs cost for the current year
Maintenance/tires: $10 &lt;i&gt;maybe&lt;/i&gt;
Parking: $0


Their comparison assumes that I&#039;m still paying off my car and that it costs me to park it.  My car gets good mileage and due to its low odometer reading depreciates less than 10% a year.  Since I drive it only a few times a month, I don&#039;t need to change the tires very often.  An oil change every few months is whatever the local parts store is charging for a quart.
Plus the annual fee effectively cancels out the money spent on tabs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I looked into Zipcar.  Owning my car is cheaper than Zipcar, even if I throw out their stupid comparison.  The major problem is that even if I only need to use the car for say, two hours, I still need to pay for the duration that I have it.  An all day trip could cost more than $60.  Here&#8217;s their (monthly) comparison:</p>
<p>Car payment (including depreciation):  	$283<br />
Finance charges: 	$62<br />
Insurance: 	$80<br />
Gas: 	$78<br />
License, registration, taxes: 	$45<br />
Maintenance and tires: 	$46<br />
Parking: 	$175</p>
<p>My real monthly totals:<br />
Car payment: $0<br />
Depretation: negligible<br />
Finance charges: N/A<br />
Insurance: Don&#8217;t remember the exact amount, but slightly less than their quote<br />
Gas: $30 if I&#8217;m lucky<br />
License/registration: Whatever tabs cost for the current year<br />
Maintenance/tires: $10 <i>maybe</i><br />
Parking: $0</p>
<p>Their comparison assumes that I&#8217;m still paying off my car and that it costs me to park it.  My car gets good mileage and due to its low odometer reading depreciates less than 10% a year.  Since I drive it only a few times a month, I don&#8217;t need to change the tires very often.  An oil change every few months is whatever the local parts store is charging for a quart.<br />
Plus the annual fee effectively cancels out the money spent on tabs.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-48229</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-48229</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Just this past weekend I had to bring items to a BBQ.&lt;/i&gt;

Personally I would have just taken a taxi or rented a car for a day or two. Zipcar is also an option but their program just doesn&#039;t make sense for me. In any case even with cab fare and car rental costs I figure I come out ahead on owning a car I would rarely drive.

Besides with car rentals I can rent according to my needs and I get a reliable well-maintained vehicle for when I need to make a long road trip.</description>
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<i>Just this past weekend I had to bring items to a BBQ.</i></p>
<p>Personally I would have just taken a taxi or rented a car for a day or two. Zipcar is also an option but their program just doesn&#8217;t make sense for me. In any case even with cab fare and car rental costs I figure I come out ahead on owning a car I would rarely drive.</p>
<p>Besides with car rentals I can rent according to my needs and I get a reliable well-maintained vehicle for when I need to make a long road trip.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Smith</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-48206</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-48206</guid>
		<description>You sound exactly like the sort of person car-sharing services like zipcars were designed for: people who need cars only occasionally.</description>
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You sound exactly like the sort of person car-sharing services like zipcars were designed for: people who need cars only occasionally.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-48194</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-48194</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In fifteen years that development will be walking distance to two light rail stations. How many of the residents will need cars...?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I live in the U-District and would find it difficult to live without a car.  I only use it a few times a month, but those few times I use are necessary.  Just this past weekend I had to bring items to a BBQ.  It would have been impossible by foot or transit.  Other times I need to get places transit doesn&#039;t go, or get there at times that transit doesn&#039;t run.

But don&#039;t think I&#039;m anti-transit.  I moved here in order to limit my driving.  I walk to school, and use transit or walking for almost all errands.</description>
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<blockquote><p>In fifteen years that development will be walking distance to two light rail stations. How many of the residents will need cars&#8230;?</p></blockquote>
<p>I live in the U-District and would find it difficult to live without a car.  I only use it a few times a month, but those few times I use are necessary.  Just this past weekend I had to bring items to a BBQ.  It would have been impossible by foot or transit.  Other times I need to get places transit doesn&#8217;t go, or get there at times that transit doesn&#8217;t run.</p>
<p>But don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m anti-transit.  I moved here in order to limit my driving.  I walk to school, and use transit or walking for almost all errands.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: John Thacker</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-48169</link>
		<dc:creator>John Thacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-48169</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Maximum parking requirements might help to alleviate financing issues a developer not coupling a significant amount of parking would likely face.  If the developer is just following the regulations rather than leaving out parking in hopes of attracting “hippies” without cars, they may be less likely to receive flack from investors and banks. Just speculating.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I completely disagree.  Investors, banks, and developers have no problem whatsoever with leaving out parking.  More housing without wasting space for parking is more profit for the builders and the banks.  If people really need parking, they&#039;ll just take it from elsewhere in the neighborhood and impose costs elsewhere.  

The people who have the problem are the neighbors, the neighborhood association, the stakeholders, the community.  They don&#039;t want it to become harder to park in their neighborhood, they don&#039;t want their neighborhood transformed, they fear worse traffic, they fear crime with large apartment buildings where people don&#039;t know each other, etc.

I&#039;m in favor of higher density.  But realize that in this case the developers and banks and money would love to build higher density; it&#039;s way more profitable to stuff more housing on the same land.  It&#039;s the community and the environmental regulations and the zoning and all the involvement of the stakeholders in the process and other things that progressives usually love that prevent higher density.</description>
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<blockquote><p>Maximum parking requirements might help to alleviate financing issues a developer not coupling a significant amount of parking would likely face.  If the developer is just following the regulations rather than leaving out parking in hopes of attracting “hippies” without cars, they may be less likely to receive flack from investors and banks. Just speculating.</p></blockquote>
<p>I completely disagree.  Investors, banks, and developers have no problem whatsoever with leaving out parking.  More housing without wasting space for parking is more profit for the builders and the banks.  If people really need parking, they&#8217;ll just take it from elsewhere in the neighborhood and impose costs elsewhere.  </p>
<p>The people who have the problem are the neighbors, the neighborhood association, the stakeholders, the community.  They don&#8217;t want it to become harder to park in their neighborhood, they don&#8217;t want their neighborhood transformed, they fear worse traffic, they fear crime with large apartment buildings where people don&#8217;t know each other, etc.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in favor of higher density.  But realize that in this case the developers and banks and money would love to build higher density; it&#8217;s way more profitable to stuff more housing on the same land.  It&#8217;s the community and the environmental regulations and the zoning and all the involvement of the stakeholders in the process and other things that progressives usually love that prevent higher density.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: John Thacker</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-48168</link>
		<dc:creator>John Thacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-48168</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That’s essentially what has happened with the real estate bubble.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The bubble is a problem of not building enough housing.  So prices go up.  Prices go up in Seattle, so they go up in the suburbs because people are comparing to what they&#039;d pay in Seattle.  But in the suburbs they let people build, so prices go down.

Prices are still too high in Seattle.  We need more building, and we need lower prices.  But once you have inflated house prices, you build a political constituency of home owners who want to keep them high (understandably).  It&#039;s a hard problem to get rid of.

Seattle&#039;s high house prices are the result of years of zoning practices that keep density lower than it would be and force development to the suburbs.</description>
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<blockquote><p>That’s essentially what has happened with the real estate bubble.</p></blockquote>
<p>The bubble is a problem of not building enough housing.  So prices go up.  Prices go up in Seattle, so they go up in the suburbs because people are comparing to what they&#8217;d pay in Seattle.  But in the suburbs they let people build, so prices go down.</p>
<p>Prices are still too high in Seattle.  We need more building, and we need lower prices.  But once you have inflated house prices, you build a political constituency of home owners who want to keep them high (understandably).  It&#8217;s a hard problem to get rid of.</p>
<p>Seattle&#8217;s high house prices are the result of years of zoning practices that keep density lower than it would be and force development to the suburbs.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: John Thacker</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-48167</link>
		<dc:creator>John Thacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-48167</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If you do not have some form of personal transportation, your options for basic living are limited. If you can find a place that’s less than 6 blocks from a grocery store, you’re probably ok to forego an automobile.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That doesn&#039;t explain why the Roosevelt neighborhood association is protesting building tall buildings directly beside the upcoming light rail station, though.</description>
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<blockquote><p>If you do not have some form of personal transportation, your options for basic living are limited. If you can find a place that’s less than 6 blocks from a grocery store, you’re probably ok to forego an automobile.</p></blockquote>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t explain why the Roosevelt neighborhood association is protesting building tall buildings directly beside the upcoming light rail station, though.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: John Thacker</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-48165</link>
		<dc:creator>John Thacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-48165</guid>
		<description>Sure, but I take the other side of the chicken and the egg caveat.  In the Roosevelt neighborhood, the entire neighborhood association is up in arms because developers want to put taller housing adjacent to the future North Link light rail stop. Those same people gladly welcomed light rail, but then don&#039;t want to build the density to support it.

The city and the county needs to maintain a widespread commitment to density, and then &quot;reward&quot; the communities that support density with light rail.  If you commit to the light rail stop first, then the community will still fight the density later.  Perhaps make it a package deal, but I believe that if you have density, transit will come.  The higher the density, the most significant the transit it can support.

Building transit first ends up with underused boondoggles like the Buffalo light rail.</description>
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Sure, but I take the other side of the chicken and the egg caveat.  In the Roosevelt neighborhood, the entire neighborhood association is up in arms because developers want to put taller housing adjacent to the future North Link light rail stop. Those same people gladly welcomed light rail, but then don&#8217;t want to build the density to support it.</p>
<p>The city and the county needs to maintain a widespread commitment to density, and then &#8220;reward&#8221; the communities that support density with light rail.  If you commit to the light rail stop first, then the community will still fight the density later.  Perhaps make it a package deal, but I believe that if you have density, transit will come.  The higher the density, the most significant the transit it can support.</p>
<p>Building transit first ends up with underused boondoggles like the Buffalo light rail.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: geekgirl</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-47968</link>
		<dc:creator>geekgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-47968</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s what I mean by legally, moving it every three days.  People still get mad.  And of course, there&#039;s another problem.  When I have the move the car, I usually figure that since I&#039;m driving it around the block anyways, I may as well run to the grocery store, when that&#039;s a four-block trip I could easily walk. 

There&#039;s something to be said about the ability to just leave your car somewhere safe until you need to visit Grandma in Duvall or whatever and not have to worry about it.  Which is why the shared parking you mentioned worked for me. I lived for a while in a mixed use building with a parking garage and just left the car down there for weeks at a time.  

There&#039;s not a huge downside to underground parking garages that I can see.  They don&#039;t take up any horizontal space, they don&#039;t encourage sprawl the way parking lots do and they don&#039;t diminish the walkability of a neighborhood the way the parking for townhomes does.  Do they encourage car ownership? Some.  But as I pointed out above, they also help people transition to using cars less.  In 100 years if hardly anyone has a car, they might be empty, wasted spaces, but maybe the building could rent it out as storage or something.</description>
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That&#8217;s what I mean by legally, moving it every three days.  People still get mad.  And of course, there&#8217;s another problem.  When I have the move the car, I usually figure that since I&#8217;m driving it around the block anyways, I may as well run to the grocery store, when that&#8217;s a four-block trip I could easily walk. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s something to be said about the ability to just leave your car somewhere safe until you need to visit Grandma in Duvall or whatever and not have to worry about it.  Which is why the shared parking you mentioned worked for me. I lived for a while in a mixed use building with a parking garage and just left the car down there for weeks at a time.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s not a huge downside to underground parking garages that I can see.  They don&#8217;t take up any horizontal space, they don&#8217;t encourage sprawl the way parking lots do and they don&#8217;t diminish the walkability of a neighborhood the way the parking for townhomes does.  Do they encourage car ownership? Some.  But as I pointed out above, they also help people transition to using cars less.  In 100 years if hardly anyone has a car, they might be empty, wasted spaces, but maybe the building could rent it out as storage or something.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Smith</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-47638</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 07:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-47638</guid>
		<description>My childhood was very different (Capitol Hill and later Wallingford in the 90s). I would just walk to the bus stop and a bus would show up. I remember thinking *I should have checked a schedule before leaving* a couple of times, but those were usually the routes it wouldn&#039;t have mattered aka the old 43 which later split into the 43 and the 44, the old 7 which split into the 7 and the 49 and the ever infamous - but never split - 48.</description>
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My childhood was very different (Capitol Hill and later Wallingford in the 90s). I would just walk to the bus stop and a bus would show up. I remember thinking *I should have checked a schedule before leaving* a couple of times, but those were usually the routes it wouldn&#8217;t have mattered aka the old 43 which later split into the 43 and the 44, the old 7 which split into the 7 and the 49 and the ever infamous &#8211; but never split &#8211; 48.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Orr</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-47635</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Orr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 06:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-47635</guid>
		<description>The West Seattle part is irrelevant to the immediate point, true.  But Rainier Valley and Beacon Hill are kind of one-ended.  There&#039;s no place to go except downtown (and secondarily to the U-district).  The train will open up the south end a bit.  But south Seattle and west Seattle are really disconnected from each other because of the hills and the lack of crosstown transit.  Whereas in north Seattle you don&#039;t have to do much more than fall down and you&#039;re somewhere on 45th or 85th or 105th, if not downtown or in Snohomish County.  The same could be true in south Seattle too, look at how popular the 8 and 75 have been.</description>
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The West Seattle part is irrelevant to the immediate point, true.  But Rainier Valley and Beacon Hill are kind of one-ended.  There&#8217;s no place to go except downtown (and secondarily to the U-district).  The train will open up the south end a bit.  But south Seattle and west Seattle are really disconnected from each other because of the hills and the lack of crosstown transit.  Whereas in north Seattle you don&#8217;t have to do much more than fall down and you&#8217;re somewhere on 45th or 85th or 105th, if not downtown or in Snohomish County.  The same could be true in south Seattle too, look at how popular the 8 and 75 have been.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Orr</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-47634</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Orr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 06:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-47634</guid>
		<description>Edmunds, thanks.  I must have known that and forgotten.

The 39 is there, but with 45-minute frequencies it&#039;s almost as bad as not having a bus at all.  It reminds me of growing up in Bellevue in the 80s when the bus came once an hour, so if you missed it you had an hour to way, and you couldn&#039;t do things spontaneously without it taking a long time to get into town.  So you either waited, took another route (which may be the 7 in this case), drove, or didn&#039;t go at all.  If a lot of people don&#039;t go at all, it means they&#039;re not working or shopping or attending get-togethers, which is a loss to the entire economy and to the social dynamism of the city.  And non-residents who unexpectedly find themselves in the area, who don&#039;t happen to keep that route&#039;s schedule in their pocket, don&#039;t know what time the bus arrives till they get to the stop, at which point their options for making the waiting time useful are limited.  (Note to Metro: there are four #106 stops in a row on Othello, none of them with schedules.)

I remember the first time I visited a friend on the top of Queen Anne in high school, being amazed that the 2 ran every 30 minutes (20 minutes midday), and was electric too.  That seemed like the top of the world.  Along with the fact that you could walk all over Queen Anne, and there were businesses every few blocks to go to, and if you had other friends there you could walk to their houses too and round several people up. But now that I&#039;ve lived some more years and seen several transit systems, I&#039;ve come to the conclusion that 15 minutes is really the minimum reasonable frequency to make a city well-functioning.  30 minutes, at least it&#039;s something.  Not good if you get off a train that comes every 10 minutes and then have to wait 30 minutes for a bus.  45 minutes, hmm, need some more funding....</description>
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Edmunds, thanks.  I must have known that and forgotten.</p>
<p>The 39 is there, but with 45-minute frequencies it&#8217;s almost as bad as not having a bus at all.  It reminds me of growing up in Bellevue in the 80s when the bus came once an hour, so if you missed it you had an hour to way, and you couldn&#8217;t do things spontaneously without it taking a long time to get into town.  So you either waited, took another route (which may be the 7 in this case), drove, or didn&#8217;t go at all.  If a lot of people don&#8217;t go at all, it means they&#8217;re not working or shopping or attending get-togethers, which is a loss to the entire economy and to the social dynamism of the city.  And non-residents who unexpectedly find themselves in the area, who don&#8217;t happen to keep that route&#8217;s schedule in their pocket, don&#8217;t know what time the bus arrives till they get to the stop, at which point their options for making the waiting time useful are limited.  (Note to Metro: there are four #106 stops in a row on Othello, none of them with schedules.)</p>
<p>I remember the first time I visited a friend on the top of Queen Anne in high school, being amazed that the 2 ran every 30 minutes (20 minutes midday), and was electric too.  That seemed like the top of the world.  Along with the fact that you could walk all over Queen Anne, and there were businesses every few blocks to go to, and if you had other friends there you could walk to their houses too and round several people up. But now that I&#8217;ve lived some more years and seen several transit systems, I&#8217;ve come to the conclusion that 15 minutes is really the minimum reasonable frequency to make a city well-functioning.  30 minutes, at least it&#8217;s something.  Not good if you get off a train that comes every 10 minutes and then have to wait 30 minutes for a bus.  45 minutes, hmm, need some more funding&#8230;.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Martin H. Duke</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-47597</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin H. Duke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 21:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-47597</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s Edmunds St that&#039;s supposed to get the makeover, not Alaska.  It&#039;s no great shakes but it&#039;s a level street and has some nice street lights.

The Othello-Seward Park-Alaska part of the route is still there, as the 39.  The West Seattle part is gone, but that&#039;s irrelevant to your point.</description>
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It&#8217;s Edmunds St that&#8217;s supposed to get the makeover, not Alaska.  It&#8217;s no great shakes but it&#8217;s a level street and has some nice street lights.</p>
<p>The Othello-Seward Park-Alaska part of the route is still there, as the 39.  The West Seattle part is gone, but that&#8217;s irrelevant to your point.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Orr</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-47591</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Orr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 20:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-47591</guid>
		<description>Yesterday I took a walk through the Rainier Valley focusing on Alaska and Othello streets, the ones connecting the stations to Rainier Avenue.  The thing I notice is that the Columbia City station is pretty far outside Columbia City.  It&#039;s a six minute walk downhill to the library, with nothing in between (except single-family houses, unkempt lawns, a blind institute, and I think one apartment building).  I thought Sound Transit was going to put &quot;pedestrian amenities&quot; on Alaska Street to connect the station to the neighborhood, but I didn&#039;t see one amenity.  It gives the feeling of walking through a no-man&#039;s-land.  Maybe it will be well-traveled anyway given the high transit use in the Valley.  But it&#039;s a significant minus.

Othello is the same way, but that doesn&#039;t bother me as much because that area has never had much there anyway.  (Or to put it a more positive way, Othello has yet to assert its identity.)  Othello from Rainier to MLK is all single-family homes, but the terrain is more wide and open so it&#039;s more pleasant to walk, and there&#039;s a large grassy park near the station.  Three corners around the station have unbuilt condo projects (350 units each in two of them, and the third looks around the same size, so potentially 1000+ people when they&#039;re built).  Two of the condo lots are empty; one has an existing apartment building that&#039;s still renting.  The fourth corner is a Safeway.  Behind one lot is the New Holly townhouses.  So that all could conceivably become an Othello City someday.  It will be kind of difficult to connect Othello-MLK to Othello-Rainer because the intervening houses really look like they belong there, so I guess they&#039;ll have to evolve as two separate villages.

All this points to the important role of the Alaska &amp; Othello bus to connect these areas.  Elderly people can&#039;t walk five minutes uphill, and most people don&#039;t want to walk through no-man&#039;s-lands, so a frequent circulator would make a big difference in terms of making the stations more useful.  The Othello - Seward Park - Alaska - West Seattle bus that was axed would have been excellent.  I home Metro&#039;s long-term finances don&#039;t stay so bad that they can&#039;t put it on someday.

As for the 30 empty storefronts on Rainier mentioned in one of the newspaper articles, I don&#039;t think you can blame that on the train.  The ones on MLK, yes. But MLK is too far from Rainier to have much of a direct effect, unless you say that all those former customers used to drive down from Beacon Hill and now don&#039;t because it&#039;s so hard to cross MLK, but that&#039;s kind of ridiculous because there aren&#039;t that many people living up there anyway, and those that do can take the 3+ major cross-streets that still go through.</description>
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Yesterday I took a walk through the Rainier Valley focusing on Alaska and Othello streets, the ones connecting the stations to Rainier Avenue.  The thing I notice is that the Columbia City station is pretty far outside Columbia City.  It&#8217;s a six minute walk downhill to the library, with nothing in between (except single-family houses, unkempt lawns, a blind institute, and I think one apartment building).  I thought Sound Transit was going to put &#8220;pedestrian amenities&#8221; on Alaska Street to connect the station to the neighborhood, but I didn&#8217;t see one amenity.  It gives the feeling of walking through a no-man&#8217;s-land.  Maybe it will be well-traveled anyway given the high transit use in the Valley.  But it&#8217;s a significant minus.</p>
<p>Othello is the same way, but that doesn&#8217;t bother me as much because that area has never had much there anyway.  (Or to put it a more positive way, Othello has yet to assert its identity.)  Othello from Rainier to MLK is all single-family homes, but the terrain is more wide and open so it&#8217;s more pleasant to walk, and there&#8217;s a large grassy park near the station.  Three corners around the station have unbuilt condo projects (350 units each in two of them, and the third looks around the same size, so potentially 1000+ people when they&#8217;re built).  Two of the condo lots are empty; one has an existing apartment building that&#8217;s still renting.  The fourth corner is a Safeway.  Behind one lot is the New Holly townhouses.  So that all could conceivably become an Othello City someday.  It will be kind of difficult to connect Othello-MLK to Othello-Rainer because the intervening houses really look like they belong there, so I guess they&#8217;ll have to evolve as two separate villages.</p>
<p>All this points to the important role of the Alaska &amp; Othello bus to connect these areas.  Elderly people can&#8217;t walk five minutes uphill, and most people don&#8217;t want to walk through no-man&#8217;s-lands, so a frequent circulator would make a big difference in terms of making the stations more useful.  The Othello &#8211; Seward Park &#8211; Alaska &#8211; West Seattle bus that was axed would have been excellent.  I home Metro&#8217;s long-term finances don&#8217;t stay so bad that they can&#8217;t put it on someday.</p>
<p>As for the 30 empty storefronts on Rainier mentioned in one of the newspaper articles, I don&#8217;t think you can blame that on the train.  The ones on MLK, yes. But MLK is too far from Rainier to have much of a direct effect, unless you say that all those former customers used to drive down from Beacon Hill and now don&#8217;t because it&#8217;s so hard to cross MLK, but that&#8217;s kind of ridiculous because there aren&#8217;t that many people living up there anyway, and those that do can take the 3+ major cross-streets that still go through.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-47535</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 01:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-47535</guid>
		<description>Capitol Hill: 35,000 pp sq mi. Denser than NYC overall, 1/2 the density of Manhattan.

This metro region as a whole may not be dense, but there are pockets of density that are well beyond what is needed to support a car-free lifestyle. And, btw, I do live within 6 blocks of a fully functioning grocery store, along with another 15,000 people on Capitol Hill. I also use zipcar once every two weeks to do shopping at Costco, so I have no trouble getting groceries or anything else for that matter without owning a car in this neighborhood.</description>
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Capitol Hill: 35,000 pp sq mi. Denser than NYC overall, 1/2 the density of Manhattan.</p>
<p>This metro region as a whole may not be dense, but there are pockets of density that are well beyond what is needed to support a car-free lifestyle. And, btw, I do live within 6 blocks of a fully functioning grocery store, along with another 15,000 people on Capitol Hill. I also use zipcar once every two weeks to do shopping at Costco, so I have no trouble getting groceries or anything else for that matter without owning a car in this neighborhood.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-47510</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 22:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-47510</guid>
		<description>Which proves that you lose &quot;affordable&quot; housing when development is left to market forces. There are good reasons why SHA exists but it&#039;s not a free market supply and demand situation.

However, senior living centers are one type of development which could probably get waivers to reduce parking requirements and be financially profitable. With the flower power generation starting to retire I bet there&#039;s a lot of demand for such units in say the U-Dist. rather than the more traditional lower Queen Anne.</description>
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Which proves that you lose &#8220;affordable&#8221; housing when development is left to market forces. There are good reasons why SHA exists but it&#8217;s not a free market supply and demand situation.</p>
<p>However, senior living centers are one type of development which could probably get waivers to reduce parking requirements and be financially profitable. With the flower power generation starting to retire I bet there&#8217;s a lot of demand for such units in say the U-Dist. rather than the more traditional lower Queen Anne.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-47503</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 22:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-47503</guid>
		<description>That and charging (by permit) for on street parking makes a lot of sense. I&#039;ve never understood the rational for free on street parking and then complaining about too many cars.</description>
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That and charging (by permit) for on street parking makes a lot of sense. I&#8217;ve never understood the rational for free on street parking and then complaining about too many cars.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-47502</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 22:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-47502</guid>
		<description>That would be better but still not all that good. What Brian said about ridership makes more sense. Bellevue barely has enough density to make public transit work. Therefore it&#039;s share of service should be lower than it&#039;s population base. Besides, most people in Bellevue (except for commuting and even that&#039;s questionable) don&#039;t want to ride the bus. They want other people to ride the bus so they&#039;re not stuck in traffic. That&#039;s not to say there aren&#039;t transit needs that could be funded. Bellevue and the eastside is well suited to expansion of the van pool system for instance which recovers some 60% of the cost. Efficiency like that might bring the overall fare box recovery back up to a more reasonable 30% from it&#039;s current 20% which would mean more service for everybody.

It&#039;s really pretty simple. Empty buses don&#039;t do anybody any good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
That would be better but still not all that good. What Brian said about ridership makes more sense. Bellevue barely has enough density to make public transit work. Therefore it&#8217;s share of service should be lower than it&#8217;s population base. Besides, most people in Bellevue (except for commuting and even that&#8217;s questionable) don&#8217;t want to ride the bus. They want other people to ride the bus so they&#8217;re not stuck in traffic. That&#8217;s not to say there aren&#8217;t transit needs that could be funded. Bellevue and the eastside is well suited to expansion of the van pool system for instance which recovers some 60% of the cost. Efficiency like that might bring the overall fare box recovery back up to a more reasonable 30% from it&#8217;s current 20% which would mean more service for everybody.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s really pretty simple. Empty buses don&#8217;t do anybody any good.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/27/time-to-re-think-zoning/#comment-47501</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 22:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5379#comment-47501</guid>
		<description>One approach that has been used for parking in condo developments is to make parking spaces seprately titled from living units.  

The developer still gets financing, because the project as a whole has the parking spaces the finance company wants to see, but those parking spaces aren&#039;t thrown in as &quot;free&quot; with each unit.  Unit owners who want parking have the choice to buy a parking space.  Unit owners who don&#039;t want parking have the choice to save the cost of a parking space.  

After the initial unit sales, the association can choose whether to sell remaining parking spaces to non-unit-owners or keep title to them and rent parking by the month to non-unit-owners.  (Usually not hourly parking -- monthly parking rental is more compatible with secured parking garages.)  If the association decides to sell off excess spaces, neighbors without off-street parking in their own buildings are often among the buyers.

When a unit owner decides to sell their unit, any parking space they have can be sold with the unit, or it can be sold separately.  If they&#039;re sold together, the new unit owner still has the choice to sell the parking space if they don&#039;t want it.  If the association doesn&#039;t sell spaces to outsiders, then the excess space can be sold back to the association, or auctioned to other unit owners.

All of that allows a development to have &quot;enough&quot; parking spaces for financing requirements while still exposing unit owners to the cost of parking separately from the cost of housing.  

FWIW, this system can also work in lower-density developments, like garden-style townhouse condos, where on-site surface parking can be a huge part of the total land cost of the development.


Finally, it doesn&#039;t take much cost to influence parking choices.  I park at a commuter near the Auburn Sounder station for $20/month.  Many people will spend time and gas every day finding free on-street parking further away from the train station, rather than buying a monthly parking pass.  Personally, I look at the stress reduction of having guaranteed parking and a fixed time to get to the platform, and I&#039;d sooner give up my morning coffee if I really needed to save $20/month.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
One approach that has been used for parking in condo developments is to make parking spaces seprately titled from living units.  </p>
<p>The developer still gets financing, because the project as a whole has the parking spaces the finance company wants to see, but those parking spaces aren&#8217;t thrown in as &#8220;free&#8221; with each unit.  Unit owners who want parking have the choice to buy a parking space.  Unit owners who don&#8217;t want parking have the choice to save the cost of a parking space.  </p>
<p>After the initial unit sales, the association can choose whether to sell remaining parking spaces to non-unit-owners or keep title to them and rent parking by the month to non-unit-owners.  (Usually not hourly parking &#8212; monthly parking rental is more compatible with secured parking garages.)  If the association decides to sell off excess spaces, neighbors without off-street parking in their own buildings are often among the buyers.</p>
<p>When a unit owner decides to sell their unit, any parking space they have can be sold with the unit, or it can be sold separately.  If they&#8217;re sold together, the new unit owner still has the choice to sell the parking space if they don&#8217;t want it.  If the association doesn&#8217;t sell spaces to outsiders, then the excess space can be sold back to the association, or auctioned to other unit owners.</p>
<p>All of that allows a development to have &#8220;enough&#8221; parking spaces for financing requirements while still exposing unit owners to the cost of parking separately from the cost of housing.  </p>
<p>FWIW, this system can also work in lower-density developments, like garden-style townhouse condos, where on-site surface parking can be a huge part of the total land cost of the development.</p>
<p>Finally, it doesn&#8217;t take much cost to influence parking choices.  I park at a commuter near the Auburn Sounder station for $20/month.  Many people will spend time and gas every day finding free on-street parking further away from the train station, rather than buying a monthly parking pass.  Personally, I look at the stress reduction of having guaranteed parking and a fixed time to get to the platform, and I&#8217;d sooner give up my morning coffee if I really needed to save $20/month.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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