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	<title>Comments on: Sunday Open Thread</title>
	<atom:link href="http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48340</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48340</guid>
		<description>While one can go far enough out into the exurbs to find reasonably priced property any savings will be eaten up by the extra time and expense of commuting from a far-flung location.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
While one can go far enough out into the exurbs to find reasonably priced property any savings will be eaten up by the extra time and expense of commuting from a far-flung location.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48339</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48339</guid>
		<description>But how much sense does it make to pay a $2200/month mortgage on a condo that would rent for maybe $900/month? For that matter how much sense does it make to have to take some exotic loan to be able to afford a property (interest only, option ARM, etc.) instead of getting a 30 yr fixed with 10 or 20% down? What happens if you lose your job and can&#039;t find a new one that pays enough to afford the mortgage payment? What happens if you have to relocate for work and can&#039;t easily sell or have to do a short sale because you are underwater?

Besides most people even with a traditional loan aren&#039;t putting that much into equity during the first 5 or 10 years of their mortgage anyway. Long term it is foolish to expect the long-term property value to do more than match inflation. Sure you may get lucky and prices will appreciate faster, but it isn&#039;t a good idea to plan on that basis unless you know what you are doing in real-estate investment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
But how much sense does it make to pay a $2200/month mortgage on a condo that would rent for maybe $900/month? For that matter how much sense does it make to have to take some exotic loan to be able to afford a property (interest only, option ARM, etc.) instead of getting a 30 yr fixed with 10 or 20% down? What happens if you lose your job and can&#8217;t find a new one that pays enough to afford the mortgage payment? What happens if you have to relocate for work and can&#8217;t easily sell or have to do a short sale because you are underwater?</p>
<p>Besides most people even with a traditional loan aren&#8217;t putting that much into equity during the first 5 or 10 years of their mortgage anyway. Long term it is foolish to expect the long-term property value to do more than match inflation. Sure you may get lucky and prices will appreciate faster, but it isn&#8217;t a good idea to plan on that basis unless you know what you are doing in real-estate investment.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48289</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48289</guid>
		<description>I agree that renting can be more economical than owning, but then the renter needs to save the difference for emergencies, investments and retirement.  People tend not to do this.  Buying a home forces this, unless you take out equity lines of credit, etc. and through away the equity you have earned or gained through appreciation.  We all have seen what this foolishness has wrought(underwater mortgages).  Owning forces financial discipline and long term planning.  This is the reason our tax system subsidizes owners (interest deductions). It is good for individual and society.  Once one owns his/her home no landlord can evict them no gentrification will drive them out, as long as they arranged financing within their budget and pay their mortgage on time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I agree that renting can be more economical than owning, but then the renter needs to save the difference for emergencies, investments and retirement.  People tend not to do this.  Buying a home forces this, unless you take out equity lines of credit, etc. and through away the equity you have earned or gained through appreciation.  We all have seen what this foolishness has wrought(underwater mortgages).  Owning forces financial discipline and long term planning.  This is the reason our tax system subsidizes owners (interest deductions). It is good for individual and society.  Once one owns his/her home no landlord can evict them no gentrification will drive them out, as long as they arranged financing within their budget and pay their mortgage on time.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48233</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48233</guid>
		<description>With the cost of owning in King County recently being so high it makes more sense to rent than own. There are some widely accepted metrics for determining when the real-estate market is overpriced, most parts of King County still show as being too high by those measures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
With the cost of owning in King County recently being so high it makes more sense to rent than own. There are some widely accepted metrics for determining when the real-estate market is overpriced, most parts of King County still show as being too high by those measures.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: CriticalWonk</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48214</link>
		<dc:creator>CriticalWonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48214</guid>
		<description>ORCA does not work on the SLU line.  Boo Hoo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
ORCA does not work on the SLU line.  Boo Hoo.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48192</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48192</guid>
		<description>Also, &lt;i&gt;agencies&lt;/i&gt; are assigned a &lt;i&gt;zone preset&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; zones are assigned an agency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Also, <i>agencies</i> are assigned a <i>zone preset</i>, <b>not</b> zones are assigned an agency.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48190</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48190</guid>
		<description>In that case, there is no more room for buses in the tunnel due to Link&#039;s headways.  Metro already had to limit the number of buses that returned to the tunnel when it reopened in 2007.  The solution, of course, is to just ride something that goes down the busway and get off at any stop along there and wait for a 59N.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
In that case, there is no more room for buses in the tunnel due to Link&#8217;s headways.  Metro already had to limit the number of buses that returned to the tunnel when it reopened in 2007.  The solution, of course, is to just ride something that goes down the busway and get off at any stop along there and wait for a 59N.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: serial catowner</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48171</link>
		<dc:creator>serial catowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48171</guid>
		<description>The problem with Rob&#039;s comment is that for many years lenders were racially biased.  Even into the 90s redlining was a problem, and before that it was quite difficult to buy a home in a non-white neighborhood, &lt;i&gt;even if you yourself were white and had a good job and full down payment&lt;/i&gt;.  Been there, done that.

Nor was it economically &quot;better sense&quot; to buy a home in a cheap suburb.  In the mid-80s I was looking to buy a home and &#039;did the math&#039;.  At that time, any property more than three miles from the city center was pretty much the same on total costs- what you saved on house price you paid in commuting costs.

Nor is owning a home a safeguard against dependency.  For one thing, if you own more than 50% of the equity in your home, it can be taken from you in a bankruptcy proceeding- which often happens when people have a serious illness.

Be careful what you wish for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
The problem with Rob&#8217;s comment is that for many years lenders were racially biased.  Even into the 90s redlining was a problem, and before that it was quite difficult to buy a home in a non-white neighborhood, <i>even if you yourself were white and had a good job and full down payment</i>.  Been there, done that.</p>
<p>Nor was it economically &#8220;better sense&#8221; to buy a home in a cheap suburb.  In the mid-80s I was looking to buy a home and &#8216;did the math&#8217;.  At that time, any property more than three miles from the city center was pretty much the same on total costs- what you saved on house price you paid in commuting costs.</p>
<p>Nor is owning a home a safeguard against dependency.  For one thing, if you own more than 50% of the equity in your home, it can be taken from you in a bankruptcy proceeding- which often happens when people have a serious illness.</p>
<p>Be careful what you wish for.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike F</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48121</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 09:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48121</guid>
		<description>I believe it&#039;s clear Elliot Sander is a very strong transit advocate. However, I would agree that the mysterious author of the &lt;em&gt;Seattle P-I&lt;/em&gt; essay probably has an ulterior motive. That said, that doesn&#039;t mean a single transit authority is a bad idea. Sander elaborated on some valid, common sense reasons in his essay. I feel a single agency for our region is a wonderful concept, if for no other reason that I, for one, am fed up with the lack of coordination between the different agencies.

While ORCA is making the process of using different transit systems pretty seamless (in my experience, although I may be one of a lucky few who hasn&#039;t had any problems to date), when I sit down to map out a unique trip that might incorporate four or five different systems in one day, the planning seems to take an inordinate amount of time. Every agency has its own ancient quirks that are now set in stone, and the widely varying policies and fare structures are annoying.

And while ORCA seems to be taming the transfer and boarding beasts (note to certain users: don&#039;t &lt;em&gt;swipe&lt;/em&gt; your ORCA card, &lt;em&gt;tap it&lt;/em&gt;!), I could write a very long essay based solely on my recent misadventures while planning to load cash on my ORCA card on a Saturday. I like to plan my trips and itineraries so I have no rude surprises, and I like to think I&#039;m a pretty good researcher, so I can imagine what a casual rider has to face. The misinformation I was given on Friday, both verbally and in writing, was maddening, and the buck passing from agency to agency was inexcusable. I finally called Sound Transit&#039;s main number and insisted they let me talk to a staff member who could give me a straight answer. They wouldn&#039;t, but a receptionist spoke to somebody, somewhere, who appeared to know the answers, and relayed his/her responses to me. l&#039;m not going to detail my even more frustrating Saturday.

Despite the &lt;em&gt;new&lt;/em&gt; issues a single agency would have, its employees and the elected officials on its board would have to be on the same page, and I think, generally, in the end, the region would be better served. You make a very good point, though, about Sound Transit vs. Metro&#039;s 40-40-20 mess. That sort of monkey business would have to be addressed and firmly dealt with before any merger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I believe it&#8217;s clear Elliot Sander is a very strong transit advocate. However, I would agree that the mysterious author of the <em>Seattle P-I</em> essay probably has an ulterior motive. That said, that doesn&#8217;t mean a single transit authority is a bad idea. Sander elaborated on some valid, common sense reasons in his essay. I feel a single agency for our region is a wonderful concept, if for no other reason that I, for one, am fed up with the lack of coordination between the different agencies.</p>
<p>While ORCA is making the process of using different transit systems pretty seamless (in my experience, although I may be one of a lucky few who hasn&#8217;t had any problems to date), when I sit down to map out a unique trip that might incorporate four or five different systems in one day, the planning seems to take an inordinate amount of time. Every agency has its own ancient quirks that are now set in stone, and the widely varying policies and fare structures are annoying.</p>
<p>And while ORCA seems to be taming the transfer and boarding beasts (note to certain users: don&#8217;t <em>swipe</em> your ORCA card, <em>tap it</em>!), I could write a very long essay based solely on my recent misadventures while planning to load cash on my ORCA card on a Saturday. I like to plan my trips and itineraries so I have no rude surprises, and I like to think I&#8217;m a pretty good researcher, so I can imagine what a casual rider has to face. The misinformation I was given on Friday, both verbally and in writing, was maddening, and the buck passing from agency to agency was inexcusable. I finally called Sound Transit&#8217;s main number and insisted they let me talk to a staff member who could give me a straight answer. They wouldn&#8217;t, but a receptionist spoke to somebody, somewhere, who appeared to know the answers, and relayed his/her responses to me. l&#8217;m not going to detail my even more frustrating Saturday.</p>
<p>Despite the <em>new</em> issues a single agency would have, its employees and the elected officials on its board would have to be on the same page, and I think, generally, in the end, the region would be better served. You make a very good point, though, about Sound Transit vs. Metro&#8217;s 40-40-20 mess. That sort of monkey business would have to be addressed and firmly dealt with before any merger.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48107</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 06:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48107</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m sure some of the biggest supporters of keeping 20-40-40 are the very same people who blast metro for being inefficient and having such low farebox recovery.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Not me. I&#039;d not only junk 20/40/40 but return Seattle Transit to Seattle. Redmond and Bellevue can damn well provide their own transit. ST should continue to provide regional (i.e. commuter service).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --></p>
<blockquote><p>I’m sure some of the biggest supporters of keeping 20-40-40 are the very same people who blast metro for being inefficient and having such low farebox recovery.</p></blockquote>
<p>Not me. I&#8217;d not only junk 20/40/40 but return Seattle Transit to Seattle. Redmond and Bellevue can damn well provide their own transit. ST should continue to provide regional (i.e. commuter service).<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48106</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 06:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48106</guid>
		<description>people will not get ahead (rise to the occasion) if they don&#039;t own their dwelling.  This is another fact of ecomonic life.  Owning ones own dwelling is a forced savings plan and hence an investment plan and a retirement plan.  Those that spend all they get on rent and etc.  will be dependent on government when they are too old to work and a burden on us all.  Better to buy a home in a &quot;cheap&quot; subarb then to live in the city from an economic sense.  However there are other values then purely economics. Yet people do love their money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
people will not get ahead (rise to the occasion) if they don&#8217;t own their dwelling.  This is another fact of ecomonic life.  Owning ones own dwelling is a forced savings plan and hence an investment plan and a retirement plan.  Those that spend all they get on rent and etc.  will be dependent on government when they are too old to work and a burden on us all.  Better to buy a home in a &#8220;cheap&#8221; subarb then to live in the city from an economic sense.  However there are other values then purely economics. Yet people do love their money.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48078</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48078</guid>
		<description>The only passenger locomotive being produced in North American today is the WabTec MotivePower &quot;MPXpress&quot;:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPI_MPXpress

http://www.motivepower-wabtec.com/locomotives/commuter/mpxpress.php

The engine in the 3600 Horsepower is made by MotivePower.  The engine in the 4000 HP version is from EMD.

Boston&#039;s MBTA tried to order some new &quot;Euro 4000&quot; locomotives from Vossloh&#039;s Spanish subsidiary, but WabTec&#039;s lobbyists were able to get that stopped because of &quot;Buy America&quot; rules.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vossloh_Euro_4000</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
The only passenger locomotive being produced in North American today is the WabTec MotivePower &#8220;MPXpress&#8221;:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPI_MPXpress" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPI_MPXpress</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.motivepower-wabtec.com/locomotives/commuter/mpxpress.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.motivepower-wabtec.com/locomotives/commuter/mpxpress.php</a></p>
<p>The engine in the 3600 Horsepower is made by MotivePower.  The engine in the 4000 HP version is from EMD.</p>
<p>Boston&#8217;s MBTA tried to order some new &#8220;Euro 4000&#8243; locomotives from Vossloh&#8217;s Spanish subsidiary, but WabTec&#8217;s lobbyists were able to get that stopped because of &#8220;Buy America&#8221; rules.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vossloh_Euro_4000" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vossloh_Euro_4000</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Nathan from Tacoma</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48074</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan from Tacoma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48074</guid>
		<description>All of the F59PHI&#039;s were built way before GM was spun off- The F59 is a product of the Early 90&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
All of the F59PHI&#8217;s were built way before GM was spun off- The F59 is a product of the Early 90&#8242;s.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48066</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48066</guid>
		<description>Yet another reason to hate 20-40-40. I say junk this turkey and let metro allocate service hours to routes/runs that will generate the most revenue per hour over the operating cost.

I&#039;m sure some of the biggest supporters of keeping 20-40-40 are the very same people who blast metro for being inefficient and having such low farebox recovery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Yet another reason to hate 20-40-40. I say junk this turkey and let metro allocate service hours to routes/runs that will generate the most revenue per hour over the operating cost.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure some of the biggest supporters of keeping 20-40-40 are the very same people who blast metro for being inefficient and having such low farebox recovery.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48064</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48064</guid>
		<description>I do feel bad for the renter who gets driven out of the neighborhood due to gentrification.

However as someone who has always rented let me point out nobody shed a tear when the sort of cheap rentals in Wallingford, Ballard, Freemont, or Capitol Hill I used to live in got too expensive for my former income bracket or were torn down. There is no reason affordable housing should be something exclusive to Rainer Valley.

Workforce housing is a city-wide problem and needs city-wide solutions. One problem is by making single-family neighborhoods so sacrosanct in Seattle it limits the amount of land available for multi-family housing. Furthermore the current building and zoning codes keep the cost of new construction fairly high.

One quick way to drop the price of new units would be by dropping the parking requirements entirely and prohibiting developers from bundling parking with the unit. (note I think there should be no such thing as &quot;free parking&quot; within the Seattle City limits)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I do feel bad for the renter who gets driven out of the neighborhood due to gentrification.</p>
<p>However as someone who has always rented let me point out nobody shed a tear when the sort of cheap rentals in Wallingford, Ballard, Freemont, or Capitol Hill I used to live in got too expensive for my former income bracket or were torn down. There is no reason affordable housing should be something exclusive to Rainer Valley.</p>
<p>Workforce housing is a city-wide problem and needs city-wide solutions. One problem is by making single-family neighborhoods so sacrosanct in Seattle it limits the amount of land available for multi-family housing. Furthermore the current building and zoning codes keep the cost of new construction fairly high.</p>
<p>One quick way to drop the price of new units would be by dropping the parking requirements entirely and prohibiting developers from bundling parking with the unit. (note I think there should be no such thing as &#8220;free parking&#8221; within the Seattle City limits)<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Orr</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48063</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Orr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48063</guid>
		<description>My card worked this afternoon on two buses.  It looks like you have to hold it really low, right in front of the bottom part of the reader.  It was nice seeing the word &quot;Pass&quot; and knowing my card was OK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
My card worked this afternoon on two buses.  It looks like you have to hold it really low, right in front of the bottom part of the reader.  It was nice seeing the word &#8220;Pass&#8221; and knowing my card was OK.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48062</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48062</guid>
		<description>The Corvair was &quot;the poor man&#039;s Porche&quot;. The turbocharged Corsa was a legitimate sportscar for the era. GM redesigned the rear suspension of the Corvair after the first two years of production so that it was no longer the same as the VW Bug (VW stuck with the single pivot transaxle until the Super Beetle came out). They also had the Greenbriar van which offered about the same milage as a VW micro bus. Now if you want to talk unsafe at any speed I can&#039;t think of a better candidate than the old VW bus.

If you want to point to one thing that doomed GM was it&#039;s failure to take to heart quality control. That increased costs through increased scrap, warranty repairs, loss of brand loyalty, etc. I think Chrysler is in a better position to turn it around than GM because they have Fiat which has turned it&#039;s self around in the last five years. I have my doubts any future board or CEO appointed by the currently proposed ownership split will really have the guts or ability to invest in quality. It looks much more like a recipe for bean-counter soup. The decision to keep Chevy, Buick, GMC and Cadillac is based on past sales in a completely different market and because of costs associated with closing dealerships. If a buyer is found for Saturn I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if it outlasted it&#039;s parent company.</description>
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The Corvair was &#8220;the poor man&#8217;s Porche&#8221;. The turbocharged Corsa was a legitimate sportscar for the era. GM redesigned the rear suspension of the Corvair after the first two years of production so that it was no longer the same as the VW Bug (VW stuck with the single pivot transaxle until the Super Beetle came out). They also had the Greenbriar van which offered about the same milage as a VW micro bus. Now if you want to talk unsafe at any speed I can&#8217;t think of a better candidate than the old VW bus.</p>
<p>If you want to point to one thing that doomed GM was it&#8217;s failure to take to heart quality control. That increased costs through increased scrap, warranty repairs, loss of brand loyalty, etc. I think Chrysler is in a better position to turn it around than GM because they have Fiat which has turned it&#8217;s self around in the last five years. I have my doubts any future board or CEO appointed by the currently proposed ownership split will really have the guts or ability to invest in quality. It looks much more like a recipe for bean-counter soup. The decision to keep Chevy, Buick, GMC and Cadillac is based on past sales in a completely different market and because of costs associated with closing dealerships. If a buyer is found for Saturn I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if it outlasted it&#8217;s parent company.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: L. Smith</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48061</link>
		<dc:creator>L. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48061</guid>
		<description>I saw a sign on some tunnel posts today that said Ride Free Area 6am to 7pm.</description>
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I saw a sign on some tunnel posts today that said Ride Free Area 6am to 7pm.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: lloyd</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48054</link>
		<dc:creator>lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48054</guid>
		<description>Thee evidently, obviously in fact, did NOT learn the lesson of the first oil &quot;shortage&quot; but the troubles started well before 1973 - the Corvair was a response to the Volkswagen?  It is a 40 year legacy of nonsense and government &quot;subsidies&quot; of all kinds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Thee evidently, obviously in fact, did NOT learn the lesson of the first oil &#8220;shortage&#8221; but the troubles started well before 1973 &#8211; the Corvair was a response to the Volkswagen?  It is a 40 year legacy of nonsense and government &#8220;subsidies&#8221; of all kinds.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/05/31/sunday-open-thread/#comment-48050</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=5423#comment-48050</guid>
		<description>No, I was referring to the routes 590 thru 595 (or 596?) that ST took over from PT.  They were originally signed with an X after the route number.  I.E. The Seattle-Tacoma express, though many go to Lakewood or Gig Harbor (which is NOT in the CPSRTA district!)</description>
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No, I was referring to the routes 590 thru 595 (or 596?) that ST took over from PT.  They were originally signed with an X after the route number.  I.E. The Seattle-Tacoma express, though many go to Lakewood or Gig Harbor (which is NOT in the CPSRTA district!)<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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