Would not violate the constitution since it is not a “gasoline tax” it is a tax on a purchase.

Also peg the gas tax to inflation so that WSDOT can do its job and pay for WSP services too.

Boats can operate at about the same capital costs as a bus. Operating costs are somewhat higher, but people have shown they will pay for a premium service. The fare to West Seattle is $3.00 each way.

The Ferry District is joining the Orca system, so any claims of funny money will be moot.

If you want to raise the farebox recovery for boats and buses up to 30% you will see millions less riders at the higher fare. Metro is already raising fares again a quarter in January which will bring them up to about 25% farebox. All transit is subsidized heavily as are roads. We simply have a poor funding structure to support transit.

Wow. Can ST get some of these “Build America Bonds”?

Vashon to Seattle. Fare $3.75 (well above peak bus fares) 18% recovery. Somehow people living on five acres in Duval are evil denizens of sprawl so their property taxes should be used to subsidize a banker on Vashon to the tune of $30 a day to commute from downtown to his island estate.

The west seattle run is about the best of the bunch and it’s still a hole in the water the county is throwing money into. The fare recovery ratio isn’t anything close to what the ferry district wants you to believe. They’re counting bus transfers as cash. In other words they’re count the same money twice; once to calculate fare recovery for buses and then again for the boat. Even with the funny money accounting the fare recovery ratio for Metro buses is terrible. Holding boats up to that low standard is the mindset that has the county in the deep hole that it’s in. Instead of expanding into new and creative ways to tax and spend get the fare recovery at least up to the national average. Better yet mandate 30% fare recovery like Minnesota.

Ferries compete well because the right of way is free and docks are plentiful. They are adaptable to the crossing and market for service. And important to transit…people actually like them!

The average Metro bus in the system returns 21% of farebox revenue. The King County Water Taxi covered 46% of its costs and 32% when you factored in the free shuttle service that takes riders to the dense Junction and to Alki/Admiral. It carried 182,000 riders in five months and is already open a month earlier this year and has carried 60,000 riders in two months before summer even starts. It is entirely possible that the West Seattle boat will carry a half-million people annually a few years after it goes to year-round service next year.

The Vashon boat carries a consistent clientele that is cost-effective to serve. A car and driver to the island costs $18 bucks this summer. Islanders will pay a premium price for a good service. Would we rather have 500 more cars on the streets of Seattle? Farebox return has typically been strong.

As for the other demonstration routes, I believe this is a modest investment and a good idea. It is a ten-year plan to raise $200 million to fund West Seattle, Vashon, and five demonstration routes with the money to make them permanent. One boat would go from Shilshole to downtown. This route has the potential to stimulate development around the dock, attract cash-paying tourists, and help during viaduct unrest. Another would go from Des Moines to Seattle with high-speed catamarans that would compete well for relatively dense coastal neighborhoods and could help the downtown area.

The route from Kenmore offers relief for the 522 corridor which will be slammed during 520 construction. Kirkland to the UW makes sense with light rail and the huge employment center at the campus and hospital. And Renton is building a whole new dense urban core on former Boeing property and they want those people to have good connections to Seattle and elsewhere.

As other posters have said, there are lots of opportunities for ferries all over the Sound. The average Metro bus costs between 650,000 and 1.1 million for a 14 year life. Boats can be leased, bought, or commissioned at pretty competitive prices.

Oh, and did I mention, people like them!

The context of our discussion is when we can retire the Sound Move bonds. Most of those are already sold, so we’ve locked in relatively low interest rates. If the CPI takes off, that just boost sales tax revenues and lets us pay off the bonds faster. On the the other hand, that implies higher interest rates, so it would probably make more sense to hold the extra revenue to avoid issuing bonds for ST2 at a higher interest rate.

Now for ST2, no one knows what interest rates and inflation will be, so that may turn out to be a bad play. But it’s the Sound Move bonds that determine when we’ll have space for ST3.

Look at it this way. Why would they issue 30 year bonds with no payments for five years if they had extra cash? The best investment you could make with excess cash reserves would be to pay down debt. Putting money in CDs that pay 2-3% while running up 5% on the bonds would be silly. They have to keep a certain level of cash on reserve to make sure they can pay bills but if there was more they wouldn’t issue bonds with increasing principle.

The general thinking is borrowing for public capital infrastructure projects really isn’t a big deal since these tend to be one-shot expenses that last a long time. Where governments get into trouble is where they borrow money for operating expenses since in effect you are just digging the hole deeper.

The main reason I see the Vashon route making sense is a number of people who live on Vashon are commuting to downtown. With the auto ferries only many will either drive or walk-on then go to a commuter car parked somewhere near the ferry terminal (this is a real problem for all of the East Sound terminals other than downtown). I’d rather run a somewhat expensive passenger only ferry to downtown than have people drive from Fauntleroy to wherever they are going.

However, you still have to make the payments and the term over which you make those payments will have a big effect on when the system can be expanded. So while it looks good now that inflation that drives up costs is going to take a much bigger bite when you go to expand if you have to wait 35 years to retire the debt instead of 20. I just don’t think you get enough up front with a five year float before you start paying off 30 year money. The big advantage of a 30 year term is lower payments so you can buy more. By letting the interest add to principle for the first five years you end up with the same payment amount as if you’d financed with straight 20 year bonds. Actually the 20 year payments would be less because you get a better interest rate the shorter the term. It’s those payments that determine how much ST can bond so buying power at the front end is almost a wash.

You’re assuming that construction inflation < interest rates. I suspect that in over the period of Link construction that’s been a pretty bad bet, and with China still in infrastructure overdrive it’ll still be true.

Vashon’s a nice place to ride a bike and ferry service has never been a problem when I’ve wanted to get there. You’re out for a day trip, you plan around whenever the ferry runs. There’s nowhere to walk to on Vashon. There never will be. Blake Island, that would make sense but it’s a luxury. There’s enough pressure on the Parks budget that ferrying tourists around shouldn’t be a priority.

The boats they bought for the Bremerton-Seattle run were probably a bit large for the actual ridership too, but that was another horse of a different color. I’m guessing WSF would have moved the boats to a Kingston or Bainbridge to Seattle run if they proved too expensive for Bremerton to Seattle and the Rich Passage issues couldn’t be solved (the Clipper Navigation boats they leased a couple of times seemed to have less problems with scouring, something to do with the hull design).

I’d also like to point out that except for the Bainbridge to Seattle run none of the WSF routes take in more in fares than they cost to operate (Kingston to Edmonds supposedly comes close though). Like all forms of transit and roads ferries tend to require a subsidy. As long as passenger only ferry routes have a farebox recovery somewhere between buses and rail I don’t see the need for a subsidy as being a huge problem.

I think cross-Sound POF routes from Southworth, Bremerton, Bainbridge, and Kingston to Seattle make a certain amount of sense. However with the current funding structure those routes are the responsibility of Kitsap County. I’m not really sure where they are in their POF ferry program currently, but I suspect one problem they are having is the relatively small tax base in Kitsap County.

Another POF route that might make some sense is Port Townsend to Seattle. This seemed to work pretty well when WSF was running passenger only boats after the Steel Electrics were pulled from service and before they leased the current Pt. Townsend to Keystone boat from Pierce County. Again given the current funding this would most likely have to be paid for by a Jefferson County Ferry District and again I’m not sure if the tax base is enough to provide the operating subsidy that would be required.

As for King County, remember even if it was politically feasible a bridge to Vashon would require a substantial amount of up-front capital to construct. Keeping the rural character of Vashon is just as important as keeping the rural character of the parts of East King County outside the Urban Growth Boundary. The lack of direct highway access makes that much easier than it is proving to be in some parts of East King County.

In any case I believe a passenger only boat between Vashon and Seattle does make a fair bit of sense. Ideally it would be faster than driving onto the Vashon to Fauntleroy ferry and then into downtown Seattle. But even more important than speed is to ensure the service frequency and hours are sufficent to make it a viable commute option. That route has been in the downward spiral of service cuts leading to lower ridership, leading to more service cuts, etc. The current two AM and two PM peak-direction runs are a joke. Furthermore there are no weekend runs which might be used by tourists and people who want to visit Vashon for the day.

The only other King County Passenger Only Ferry route I see as making much sense is the Elliot Bay Water Taxi. Even with year-round service this route is likely to have a pretty good farebox recovery compared to bus or rail. I don’t see the other proposed routes as making much sense though. On the other hand the ferry districts plan to do two year demonstrations for the 5 additional proposed routes should show how much real demand there is if any.