Comments on: Regional Rapid Transit news

By: Nathan

Nathan — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:27:10 +0000

I can’t wait to see it

By: Nathan

Nathan — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:26:50 +0000

The guy I just agreed to rent an apt from during the olympics (well part of them anyway) is an engineering tech working on the Evergreen line. So cool.

By: Oran Viriyincy

Oran Viriyincy — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:17:57 +0000

Basically, BNSF says to City of Renton “screw you!!!”

By: Brian Bundridge

Brian Bundridge — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 02:57:54 +0000

Correct. The Canada Line is expandable to a 3 car long train if they decide to purchase the “C” section. Trains on configured in a A-B section currently (A and B being the control cars, C-Z being extra cars.

By: Brian Bundridge

Brian Bundridge — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 02:56:24 +0000

Just to make one thing very much clear, The City of Renton has ZERO say about what BNSF or any other rail carrier can do through the City of Renton. There are no agreements that state they can only run x train and it has to be x length and needs to be at x time. They can cry, complain, threaten to sue but they have no legal standing since the railway owns that street and could close that entire section should they decide to do so.

The City of Renton balks at the thought of not having a ton of buses running through their city and wants BRT service. BNSF can run a 110 car long grain train at 10mph and there isn’t anything that the City of Renton could do. Whomever said or believes that the City has control of that ROW is full of it and needs to get their information rechecked. As it was, BNSF had to run several detours over this line in the early 2000′s that was 60+ car long intermodal and grain trains.

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 00:26:23 +0000

But I still thought local governments couldn’t ban the use of a existing interstate (meaning under FRA jurisdiction) rail line.

I suppose a DMU up the BNSF ROW would be a new service subject to some approval, not to mention that I don’t think any of the local transit agencies is too keen on antagonizing the Renton City council.

On the other hand a little bit of hardball could be played by Sound Transit. Allow a couple trips a day of commuter rail or you can forget about ever seeing link.

By: romulus

romulus — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:40:25 +0000

Canada Line looks pretty awesome on the map, it did make driving through Richmond a little painful but not much, and they built it FAST. As for it being privately funded, I didn’t know that, but it’s fair to mention that they are gearing up for a huge influx of visitors this coming winter, and that probably helped to encourage private investment in infrastructure.

By: Lor Scara

Lor Scara — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:35:29 +0000

For thoes who say that ESR does not go where people want to go, here is an idea.
1. Get an FRA Waiver allowing DMU’s to run on Link track (In Bellevue)
2. Instead of rebuilding the Wilberton Tressel and 405 bridge, build a track (probably less than 1 mile) to connect from the current turminus of the South leg of the ESR with Link in Bellevue (all on the west side of 405), Conect ESR to Link on the north end of Bellevue

Yes the DMU’s are higher floor than the link cars, we can work that out, by either having seperate stops for link and ESR, or having the vehicle stop at precise spots at a station so that ramps/stairs will allign with DMU doors, but not block Link doors

If Link does end up in a tunnel under Bellevue, we would need to look at HMU’s (Hybrid Diesel/Electric) instead of DMU’s

Lor Scara

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:08:25 +0000

Some are as long as 120-150. They’re not all 90.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:07:40 +0000

Actually, yes, the city of Renton does have a say. These people all have agreements between each other!

By: poncho

poncho — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:28:39 +0000

plus the waterfront trolley provided an intermodal link between the train station and the WSF & victoria clipper ferries

By: Bernie

Bernie — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:18:51 +0000

Not really. If BNSF decided it was going to use the line to bring 737 fusalages in again from the north there is nothing Renton can do about it. Auburn threw a hissy fit when BNSF decided to re-open the Stampede Pass route. Tough cookies.

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:02:48 +0000

Does the City of Renton even have a say in what runs down an existing 100 year old rail right of way? After all I can think of any number of cities who might try to ban freight and passenger trains within their borders if the Federal government let them get away with it.

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:54:44 +0000

One reason I feel the ESR study by the PSRC got such low ridership figures is the South end of the line studied ended in North Renton rather than passing through downtown and either connecting to Sounder at Tukwilla station or continuing on to Seattle at King Street. Even with longer travel times from Bellevue or Kirkland to Downtown Seattle over express buses or Link I suspect there are at least a few people who would be attracted to a train using DMU’s with a reliable schedule.

The PSRC study also assumed a bit of a gold plated rebuild of the corridor including replacing the Wilburton Trestle.

Given the amount of money likely to be spent by the King County Ferry district on demonstration foot ferry routes I don’t see the harm in trying a 2 year demonstration from King Street to Woodinville along the ESR corridor using spare Sounder equipment.

As for Link reaching Issaquah or Redmond there is money in ST2 for studying an extension East along I-90 to Issaquah, the East link EIS covers the Redmond extension as well, and I believe there is money in ST2 for ROW acquisition and preservation for both corridors.

I have no doubt that as more of Link gets completed and opens for service we’ll see more support both from the public at large and from elected officials for further expansions of Link.

By: Martin H. Duke

Martin H. Duke — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:52:43 +0000

The City of Renton flat out won’t let heavy rail run through their city streets, and anyway the existing cost & ridership estimates don’t assume that’s built out. So any existing model does not connect with Sounder.

[UPDATE: I was in error when making the above assertion about Renton. I regret my mistake.]

I understand that ESR is in the rough vicinity of stuff; but the point is it doesn’t directly take you to anything. Transfers kill ridership.

I used to commute on 405 daily so I know there’s traffic. But there’s a reason ridership on the 545+550 more than doubles 532+535+564+565 despite drawing from a much smaller area. It’s because they serve dense, transit-oriented populations and workplaces, and serve workers traveling in both directions.

Furthermore, if you assume ridership from Snohomish you’re getting a lot of cash from somewhere outside the ST district. Good luck winning a transit vote out there, especially given the size of tax base and the amount of cash you’re talking about.

By: Bernie

Bernie — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:15:53 +0000

Yeah, no upzoning except in Bel-Red they have to be assuming future development. Likewise with East Link they make assumptions about building multi story parking garages (or not when it’s convenient) that aren’t in the project budget or EIS. It’s pretty obvious the ridership numbers can be cooked to get a desired result. Probably why the methodology is such a closely guarded secret.

ESR connects with Sounder. It goes right through Renton including the “Landing”. It is exactly in line with one of the proposed East Main station locations and Eastside Medical (or Ashwood) where it would meet up with Link. It forms the northern boarder of the Kirkland P&R. It goes through Totem Lake where it could easily become the third leg in the Flyer Stop/Evergreen Medical Center shuttle and then goes within a block of the Woodinville P&R where 405, SR-522, SR202 and Hwy 9 all converge. Finally terminates in Snohomish. Like there’s no traffic coming in from anywhere north or south of Bellevue? I guess not because Link won’t go there for 20-30 years if ever. The only places ESR bypasses on the eastside are Issaquah and Redmond. Link has no plan to reach Issaquah and there’s no money in the budget to complete the line to Redmond either.

Maybe we need to add a tunnel under I-5 at Wilburton to up the cost. Then the project would probably become instantly viable. Nobody’s interested in infrastructure projects unless they control billions of dollars in taxes.

By: Martin H. Duke

Martin H. Duke — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:26:57 +0000

FTA ridership projections aren’t allowed to assume upzoning and development along the corridor. Since the BNSF corridor misses all the real dense housing and job centers (requiring a transfer), ridership takes a big hit.

Although many of colleagues disagree with me, I think that development would eventually make ECR a success if the money could be found.

Which isn’t to say it should be a priority over East Link.

By: Gary

Gary — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:03:37 +0000

That and this analysis about investing in high speed trains without taking care of the basic system we have:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2009/06/too-stupid-to-survive.html#more

By: Bernie

Bernie — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:56:14 +0000

It’s really hard for me to believe that a rail line which parallels the I-405 corridor the entire length of Lake Washington (connecting Renton, Bellevue and Bothel) is only going to generate a handful of riders. But then I don’t see the thousands of people ST project using the two stations in Bel-Red either. If you build rail people will come but if people are already there they won’t use it??

By: jcdk

jcdk — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:47:30 +0000

oh wait, that’s just a passenger and a guy with a vest behind him.