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	<title>Comments on: Car Turns in Front of Link Train</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52947</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 02:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52947</guid>
		<description>Gary, here you claim to be a CETA member:
http://www.monorail.org/discussions/2003/02/10/10</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Gary, here you claim to be a CETA member:<br />
<a href="http://www.monorail.org/discussions/2003/02/10/10" rel="nofollow">http://www.monorail.org/discussions/2003/02/10/10</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52771</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52771</guid>
		<description>What kind of person drives a PT Cruiser?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->What kind of person drives a PT Cruiser?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52756</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 05:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52756</guid>
		<description>They&#039;re lucky no one sued them when they got into an accident because of the location of their driveway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->They&#8217;re lucky no one sued them when they got into an accident because of the location of their driveway.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: MarkS</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52706</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52706</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s also no surprise Chris Van Dyk signed up to &#039;represent&#039; these auto-oriented businesses. Not only is that guy an avowed rail opponent &amp; Kemperite, but he also likes to brag about his gas-guzzling muscle car on occassion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->It&#8217;s also no surprise Chris Van Dyk signed up to &#8216;represent&#8217; these auto-oriented businesses. Not only is that guy an avowed rail opponent &amp; Kemperite, but he also likes to brag about his gas-guzzling muscle car on occassion.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52676</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52676</guid>
		<description>Gosh, &quot;we all hope&quot;. Nice jab.

Notice about how often it happens in Portland - where it&#039;s far less separated than it is here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Gosh, &#8220;we all hope&#8221;. Nice jab.</p>
<p>Notice about how often it happens in Portland &#8211; where it&#8217;s far less separated than it is here?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52665</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52665</guid>
		<description>Are you going to complain until we don&#039;t have cars? Because if we turn that street into a pedestrian thoroughfare, we can eliminate most of these accidents...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Are you going to complain until we don&#8217;t have cars? Because if we turn that street into a pedestrian thoroughfare, we can eliminate most of these accidents&#8230;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52661</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52661</guid>
		<description>A lot of things would prevent collisions, but make the area unlivable. You can&#039;t just force things on people that don&#039;t want them - those residents have a right to say how their community should look. And barriers aren&#039;t going to stop plenty of these drivers.

Building light rail prevents collisions. Yes, read it again. The accidents light rail has will be *far lower* than the no-build scenario.

You&#039;ll get a good system too, help us push for one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->A lot of things would prevent collisions, but make the area unlivable. You can&#8217;t just force things on people that don&#8217;t want them &#8211; those residents have a right to say how their community should look. And barriers aren&#8217;t going to stop plenty of these drivers.</p>
<p>Building light rail prevents collisions. Yes, read it again. The accidents light rail has will be *far lower* than the no-build scenario.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll get a good system too, help us push for one!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52660</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52660</guid>
		<description>Maybe if they don&#039;t want the c-curbs, those business owners want to pay for the damages when someone gets into an accident? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Maybe if they don&#8217;t want the c-curbs, those business owners want to pay for the damages when someone gets into an accident? :)<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: serial catowner</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52633</link>
		<dc:creator>serial catowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52633</guid>
		<description>What we really have here is a &quot;perfect storm&quot; of driver ignorance.  In the old days we had our share of bad drivers, but if you screwed up, you felt terrible- and I mean that literally.  Even if you didn&#039;t stab yourself with the steering wheel or dash your brains out on the dashboard, accidents were something to try to avoid.

But today, cars are safe.  Run them off the road, cross the centerline, whatever, the worst you&#039;re likely to feel is a ringing in your ears from the airbags.  It&#039;s evolution going backwards.

The one thing that might help would be to put a front on the streetcar of big rusty saw blades, axe blades, and oversized barbed wire.  The same person who calmly contemplates complete disaster in his airbagged car will scream like a child at the thought of the paint getting scratched.

A friend of mine replaced a front bumper with a rusty I-beam once, and he said it was just wonderful, how careful the other drivers were around him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->What we really have here is a &#8220;perfect storm&#8221; of driver ignorance.  In the old days we had our share of bad drivers, but if you screwed up, you felt terrible- and I mean that literally.  Even if you didn&#8217;t stab yourself with the steering wheel or dash your brains out on the dashboard, accidents were something to try to avoid.</p>
<p>But today, cars are safe.  Run them off the road, cross the centerline, whatever, the worst you&#8217;re likely to feel is a ringing in your ears from the airbags.  It&#8217;s evolution going backwards.</p>
<p>The one thing that might help would be to put a front on the streetcar of big rusty saw blades, axe blades, and oversized barbed wire.  The same person who calmly contemplates complete disaster in his airbagged car will scream like a child at the thought of the paint getting scratched.</p>
<p>A friend of mine replaced a front bumper with a rusty I-beam once, and he said it was just wonderful, how careful the other drivers were around him.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: John Niles</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52627</link>
		<dc:creator>John Niles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52627</guid>
		<description>AJ: In the long run, all kinds of vehicles on urban streets -- cars, trucks, buses, trains -- will have better anti-collision technologies installed that reduce the risk of collisions. Some high-end automobiles already have radar-assisted cruise control and automatic braking. I suspect that over time -- many years -- the frequency of train-vehicle collisions on the MLK segment of Central Link will decrease.  That hope is counterbalanced by whatever implications come out of the investigation of last week&#039;s awful tragedy on the WMATA Metro Rail Red Line when the combination of an automated system and a train operator looking ahead failed to prevent a fatal collision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->AJ: In the long run, all kinds of vehicles on urban streets &#8212; cars, trucks, buses, trains &#8212; will have better anti-collision technologies installed that reduce the risk of collisions. Some high-end automobiles already have radar-assisted cruise control and automatic braking. I suspect that over time &#8212; many years &#8212; the frequency of train-vehicle collisions on the MLK segment of Central Link will decrease.  That hope is counterbalanced by whatever implications come out of the investigation of last week&#8217;s awful tragedy on the WMATA Metro Rail Red Line when the combination of an automated system and a train operator looking ahead failed to prevent a fatal collision.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52619</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52619</guid>
		<description>Of course, it&#039;s not &quot;always&quot; the cross traffic&#039;s fault.

http://www.co.washington.or.us/sheriff/media/max_cart.htm

Tri Met Light rail vs Fire truck. 

My guess would be that the light rail operator expected the light to change for them as it normally would.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Of course, it&#8217;s not &#8220;always&#8221; the cross traffic&#8217;s fault.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.co.washington.or.us/sheriff/media/max_cart.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.co.washington.or.us/sheriff/media/max_cart.htm</a></p>
<p>Tri Met Light rail vs Fire truck. </p>
<p>My guess would be that the light rail operator expected the light to change for them as it normally would.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: rex</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52613</link>
		<dc:creator>rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52613</guid>
		<description>Why? Why would the driver do that and take such a risk?  Why? It&#039;s so senseless!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Why? Why would the driver do that and take such a risk?  Why? It&#8217;s so senseless!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52604</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52604</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t know how you can say that. While Rainier Valley has a higher proportion of African-Americans than the city as a whole, it also has a large number of Asians, Hispanics, and yes even whites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I really don&#8217;t know how you can say that. While Rainier Valley has a higher proportion of African-Americans than the city as a whole, it also has a large number of Asians, Hispanics, and yes even whites.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Erik G.</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52601</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52601</guid>
		<description>Damien,

Is that you?

http://www.fixexpo.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Damien,</p>
<p>Is that you?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fixexpo.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.fixexpo.org/</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52599</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52599</guid>
		<description>Some of the comments I&#039;ve read on a few of the local media sites about this accident since yesterday make it sound as if this sort of thing will only happen in Seattle.

Of course most of us know better...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=821302</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Some of the comments I&#8217;ve read on a few of the local media sites about this accident since yesterday make it sound as if this sort of thing will only happen in Seattle.</p>
<p>Of course most of us know better&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=821302" rel="nofollow">http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=821302</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52586</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52586</guid>
		<description>More on the LA Blue line here:
http://fixexpo.blogspot.com/2009/01/meshkatis-op-ed-expo-line-approval.html

looks like 821 accidents in 18 years is approx 45 accidents/year over 22 miles of track, is 2year/mile. If we translate that to the LINK...that&#039;s 5 miles of ungated track on MLK, or 11 or so a year. (slightly less than 1 a month) Which is lower than the 1999 EIS forecast by more than 60%. We should be so lucky! And it&#039;s looking like we are on par for it. (1 a month..)

&quot;This is the third incident involving a test train in Rainier Valley, where tracks run in a median at street level. Two were crashes with cars, and in one case, a person walked into the side of a train, according to Sound Transit.

&quot;We&#039;ve been running 20 hours a day for over a month here.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->More on the LA Blue line here:<br />
<a href="http://fixexpo.blogspot.com/2009/01/meshkatis-op-ed-expo-line-approval.html" rel="nofollow">http://fixexpo.blogspot.com/2009/01/meshkatis-op-ed-expo-line-approval.html</a></p>
<p>looks like 821 accidents in 18 years is approx 45 accidents/year over 22 miles of track, is 2year/mile. If we translate that to the LINK&#8230;that&#8217;s 5 miles of ungated track on MLK, or 11 or so a year. (slightly less than 1 a month) Which is lower than the 1999 EIS forecast by more than 60%. We should be so lucky! And it&#8217;s looking like we are on par for it. (1 a month..)</p>
<p>&#8220;This is the third incident involving a test train in Rainier Valley, where tracks run in a median at street level. Two were crashes with cars, and in one case, a person walked into the side of a train, according to Sound Transit.</p>
<p>&#8220;We&#8217;ve been running 20 hours a day for over a month here.&#8221;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: pissed</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52582</link>
		<dc:creator>pissed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52582</guid>
		<description>[removed]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->[removed]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52571</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52571</guid>
		<description>A single stop bus shuttle seems like a reasonable solution to a problem we all hope happens infrequently. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->A single stop bus shuttle seems like a reasonable solution to a problem we all hope happens infrequently. Thanks.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52568</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52568</guid>
		<description>There are gates along the intersections in the SODO area.. They could have put them in place on MLK. If noise is the issue, stop the bell clanging after 9pm and just use flashing lights. Better to be hit by the bar than the train.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->There are gates along the intersections in the SODO area.. They could have put them in place on MLK. If noise is the issue, stop the bell clanging after 9pm and just use flashing lights. Better to be hit by the bar than the train.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/06/29/car-turns-in-front-of-link-train/#comment-52566</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6058#comment-52566</guid>
		<description>The problem is people still run gates. I&#039;ve seen this where there is a four segment gate guarding a RR crossing and some idiot will still try to drive around. Thankfully I&#039;ve never seen anyone hit by a train but anyone trying that stunt is in the running for a Darwin award.

On another note for anyone who thinks conflicts between transit ROW and and regular traffic are unique to rail take a look at the Orange line BRT in LA. There are frequent collisions between buses and drivers who ignore the signals. Note this line should have been built as rail, the ridership is so high buses really can&#039;t handle it, even with 80 double articulated coaches the transit agency is trying to get a waiver from Caltrans for. Unfortunately they will need to find funding to build it and change a stupid state law pushed through by a NIMBY legislator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->The problem is people still run gates. I&#8217;ve seen this where there is a four segment gate guarding a RR crossing and some idiot will still try to drive around. Thankfully I&#8217;ve never seen anyone hit by a train but anyone trying that stunt is in the running for a Darwin award.</p>
<p>On another note for anyone who thinks conflicts between transit ROW and and regular traffic are unique to rail take a look at the Orange line BRT in LA. There are frequent collisions between buses and drivers who ignore the signals. Note this line should have been built as rail, the ridership is so high buses really can&#8217;t handle it, even with 80 double articulated coaches the transit agency is trying to get a waiver from Caltrans for. Unfortunately they will need to find funding to build it and change a stupid state law pushed through by a NIMBY legislator.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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