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	<title>Comments on: Metro to Fund RapidRide with No Net Tax Increase</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57642</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57642</guid>
		<description>Yes they can. 15% of Metro&#039;s fleet are equipped with an Automatic Passenger Counting system. They are rotated to collect a sample of ridership for every route. In conjunction with the bus location system, they can have counts at the stop level. They count how many people get &lt;b&gt;on&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; get &lt;b&gt;off&lt;/b&gt; at each stop.

An example of APC/AVL reports at http://www.psrc.org/boards/advisory/rtf_62008_KCMetro.pdf

Now I wish there was an easy way for us to have a look at that data.</description>
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Yes they can. 15% of Metro&#8217;s fleet are equipped with an Automatic Passenger Counting system. They are rotated to collect a sample of ridership for every route. In conjunction with the bus location system, they can have counts at the stop level. They count how many people get <b>on</b> <i>and</i> get <b>off</b> at each stop.</p>
<p>An example of APC/AVL reports at <a href="http://www.psrc.org/boards/advisory/rtf_62008_KCMetro.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.psrc.org/boards/advisory/rtf_62008_KCMetro.pdf</a></p>
<p>Now I wish there was an easy way for us to have a look at that data.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57583</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57583</guid>
		<description>P&amp;R utilization is good for the outlying areas. Overlake Village has been a perennial laggard in utilization compared to all of the other lots in Redmond, Bellevue and Kirkland which makes me wonder why planners seem to think it&#039;s such an important Link destination. There might be privacy issues involved but I think it would be great for Metro to use some sort of automated license plate capture technique and map origination of cars based on vehicle registration. I know not every registration is where cars are actually parked but overall trends should be easy to see and provide an idea of where new lots or feeder service would be viable.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Metro’s Route Performance Reports do not include rides within the Ride Free Area in the evaluation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;m not following. Are you saying that they can differentiate rides within the RFZ. How do they know if someone boarding in the RFZ is getting off again or actually boarding to go somewhere? I would imagine that a large percentage of all trips originate in the RFZ.

Another point of confusion is SLUT. I understand there are sensors (pressure or optical) which measure boardings on buses but on SLUT I&#039;ve read that &lt;i&gt;ridership&lt;/i&gt; is quoted based on operator surveys and it&#039;s been impossible to replicate those figures by independent parties.  Why no automated boarding sensors on SLUT, or are there?

Boardings are a great thing to measure but they shouldn&#039;t be reported as something they&#039;re not. A boarding does not equate to number of passengers and a 20% increase in boardings doesn&#039;t equate to a 20% increase in ridership. What&#039;s important are percentage of fare recovery, passenger miles provided, vehicle trip reduction,etc. It&#039;s fine to report number of boardings but it&#039;s not really very useful unless it&#039;s translated into something more tangible. For example, what&#039;s going to happen to boardings when Link is fully phased in? Will boardings increase because there will be lots of short haul trips to and from stations or will they decrease because bus service is replaced by light rail? What if boardings remain unchanged? It obviously wouldn&#039;t be a valid conclusion that Link had no effect.</description>
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P&amp;R utilization is good for the outlying areas. Overlake Village has been a perennial laggard in utilization compared to all of the other lots in Redmond, Bellevue and Kirkland which makes me wonder why planners seem to think it&#8217;s such an important Link destination. There might be privacy issues involved but I think it would be great for Metro to use some sort of automated license plate capture technique and map origination of cars based on vehicle registration. I know not every registration is where cars are actually parked but overall trends should be easy to see and provide an idea of where new lots or feeder service would be viable.</p>
<blockquote><p>Metro’s Route Performance Reports do not include rides within the Ride Free Area in the evaluation.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not following. Are you saying that they can differentiate rides within the RFZ. How do they know if someone boarding in the RFZ is getting off again or actually boarding to go somewhere? I would imagine that a large percentage of all trips originate in the RFZ.</p>
<p>Another point of confusion is SLUT. I understand there are sensors (pressure or optical) which measure boardings on buses but on SLUT I&#8217;ve read that <i>ridership</i> is quoted based on operator surveys and it&#8217;s been impossible to replicate those figures by independent parties.  Why no automated boarding sensors on SLUT, or are there?</p>
<p>Boardings are a great thing to measure but they shouldn&#8217;t be reported as something they&#8217;re not. A boarding does not equate to number of passengers and a 20% increase in boardings doesn&#8217;t equate to a 20% increase in ridership. What&#8217;s important are percentage of fare recovery, passenger miles provided, vehicle trip reduction,etc. It&#8217;s fine to report number of boardings but it&#8217;s not really very useful unless it&#8217;s translated into something more tangible. For example, what&#8217;s going to happen to boardings when Link is fully phased in? Will boardings increase because there will be lots of short haul trips to and from stations or will they decrease because bus service is replaced by light rail? What if boardings remain unchanged? It obviously wouldn&#8217;t be a valid conclusion that Link had no effect.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Zed</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57505</link>
		<dc:creator>Zed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57505</guid>
		<description>Well, the &quot;Discovery&quot; Institute also thinks that dinosaurs roamed the earth four-thousand years ago. They&#039;re not exactly a powerhouse of rational thought.</description>
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Well, the &#8220;Discovery&#8221; Institute also thinks that dinosaurs roamed the earth four-thousand years ago. They&#8217;re not exactly a powerhouse of rational thought.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: GLewis</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57504</link>
		<dc:creator>GLewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57504</guid>
		<description>No, multimodalman - it&#039;s not boarding which cout. It&#039;s passenger miles. If a homeless person gets on at Pio Square and gets off three blocks away, that&#039;s a boarding. If somebody gets on a train at SeaTac and travels to Westlake Station, that&#039;s 16 passenger miles. Distance us what counts. Nit bums who are too lazy to walk a couple blocks.</description>
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No, multimodalman &#8211; it&#8217;s not boarding which cout. It&#8217;s passenger miles. If a homeless person gets on at Pio Square and gets off three blocks away, that&#8217;s a boarding. If somebody gets on a train at SeaTac and travels to Westlake Station, that&#8217;s 16 passenger miles. Distance us what counts. Nit bums who are too lazy to walk a couple blocks.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: GLewis</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57499</link>
		<dc:creator>GLewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57499</guid>
		<description>Love this story. 

First off, Sims and BRT caucus are shown to have over-promised Rapid Ride in order to make a bOgus comparison with light rail. 

Second, the light rail-hating Discovery Institute gets their you-know-what handed to them for pushing the ridiculous &quot;least cost planning&quot; micro ferry concept. Considering the fact these jokers pushed monorail, BRT, DMU&#039;s, Mag-Lev, and passenger ferries as &quot;alternatives&quot; to light rail, their record is now 0 for 5. 

Thank you, Bruce Agnew and Bruce Chapman.  And a big thanks to Microsoft, for wasting $10 million on these idiots.  Seriously, who is in charge of their money burning machine?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Love this story. </p>
<p>First off, Sims and BRT caucus are shown to have over-promised Rapid Ride in order to make a bOgus comparison with light rail. </p>
<p>Second, the light rail-hating Discovery Institute gets their you-know-what handed to them for pushing the ridiculous &#8220;least cost planning&#8221; micro ferry concept. Considering the fact these jokers pushed monorail, BRT, DMU&#8217;s, Mag-Lev, and passenger ferries as &#8220;alternatives&#8221; to light rail, their record is now 0 for 5. </p>
<p>Thank you, Bruce Agnew and Bruce Chapman.  And a big thanks to Microsoft, for wasting $10 million on these idiots.  Seriously, who is in charge of their money burning machine?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: justin</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57481</link>
		<dc:creator>justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 05:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57481</guid>
		<description>I still think they should not be rolling out anything new when they are cutting service hours.  Foot ferries and rapid ride are great if we could afford them, but it appears we can not.</description>
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I still think they should not be rolling out anything new when they are cutting service hours.  Foot ferries and rapid ride are great if we could afford them, but it appears we can not.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Multimodal Man</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57465</link>
		<dc:creator>Multimodal Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57465</guid>
		<description>YouTube tells how many views and people find that acceptable. Boardings is what every agency in the US uses so it works as a comparison even though the news media don&#039;t get the difference between unique riders and boardings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
YouTube tells how many views and people find that acceptable. Boardings is what every agency in the US uses so it works as a comparison even though the news media don&#8217;t get the difference between unique riders and boardings.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike F</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57447</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57447</guid>
		<description>A bunch of us have been wondering why Kitsap County was locked out of the proceeds of the Chinook/Snohomish sale. Interestingly, nobody at Kitsap Transit seemed to know the answer. I suppose we should be reading &lt;em&gt;The Seattle Times&lt;/em&gt; a little more closely; that article explained a lot.

Cannibalization of WSF passengers and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.psrc.org/projects/ferry/Task8FullReport.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;funding the systems&lt;/a&gt; have been major issues hovering over planning for Central Puget Sound passenger ferry service. We&#039;ve been told that select WSF runs will likely be cut if passenger ferries siphon off too many passengers from WSF, due to the decrease in revenue. Part of this equation, though, is the perennial complaint that ferry and bus schedules don&#039;t mesh, although all we&#039;ve gotten for years are excuses and finger-pointing from the transit agencies involved. A lot of folks have said they&#039;d definitely leave their cars at home &lt;em&gt;if&lt;/em&gt; buses met the ferries &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; the buses got them where they needed to go in a reasonable amount of time. As long as that&#039;s not happening, I don&#039;t think people will willingly give up their vehicles.

This might not matter for the foreseeable future, at least in Kitsap County. Even if Kitsap Transit&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kitsaptransit.com/Board/BoardMeetingMinutes/2009MeetingMinutes/1-20-09.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;problem-plagued&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bellinghamherald.com/602/story/881388.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;long-delayed&lt;/a&gt; passenger ferry prototype eventually passes muster, there are no funds to operate &lt;em&gt;one&lt;/em&gt; boat, let alone a fleet. Two separate Kitsap County ballot measures funding fast passenger ferries have failed, and Kitsap Transit just announced a &lt;em&gt;new&lt;/em&gt; round of service cuts to its already exceedingly inadequate bus service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
A bunch of us have been wondering why Kitsap County was locked out of the proceeds of the Chinook/Snohomish sale. Interestingly, nobody at Kitsap Transit seemed to know the answer. I suppose we should be reading <em>The Seattle Times</em> a little more closely; that article explained a lot.</p>
<p>Cannibalization of WSF passengers and <a href="http://www.psrc.org/projects/ferry/Task8FullReport.pdf" rel="nofollow">funding the systems</a> have been major issues hovering over planning for Central Puget Sound passenger ferry service. We&#8217;ve been told that select WSF runs will likely be cut if passenger ferries siphon off too many passengers from WSF, due to the decrease in revenue. Part of this equation, though, is the perennial complaint that ferry and bus schedules don&#8217;t mesh, although all we&#8217;ve gotten for years are excuses and finger-pointing from the transit agencies involved. A lot of folks have said they&#8217;d definitely leave their cars at home <em>if</em> buses met the ferries <em>and</em> the buses got them where they needed to go in a reasonable amount of time. As long as that&#8217;s not happening, I don&#8217;t think people will willingly give up their vehicles.</p>
<p>This might not matter for the foreseeable future, at least in Kitsap County. Even if Kitsap Transit&#8217;s <a href="http://www.kitsaptransit.com/Board/BoardMeetingMinutes/2009MeetingMinutes/1-20-09.pdf" rel="nofollow">problem-plagued</a>, <a href="http://www.bellinghamherald.com/602/story/881388.html" rel="nofollow">long-delayed</a> passenger ferry prototype eventually passes muster, there are no funds to operate <em>one</em> boat, let alone a fleet. Two separate Kitsap County ballot measures funding fast passenger ferries have failed, and Kitsap Transit just announced a <em>new</em> round of service cuts to its already exceedingly inadequate bus service.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57445</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57445</guid>
		<description>What do you think of P&amp;R lot utilization as a metric? In 2008 Q4, 18,382 spaces were used in King County which is 75% of total capacity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
What do you think of P&amp;R lot utilization as a metric? In 2008 Q4, 18,382 spaces were used in King County which is 75% of total capacity.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57443</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57443</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget the UW and BCC students! Those figures above are for weekdays only.

Other routes on 520 (the peak hour routes) are 167, 242, 243, 250, 252, 256, 257, 260, 261, 265, 266, 268, 272, 277, 311, 555/556. Given my daily experience waiting at Montlake, I would guess around 1,500 additional commuters. Also, 280 suburban night owl service but that&#039;s negligible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Don&#8217;t forget the UW and BCC students! Those figures above are for weekdays only.</p>
<p>Other routes on 520 (the peak hour routes) are 167, 242, 243, 250, 252, 256, 257, 260, 261, 265, 266, 268, 272, 277, 311, 555/556. Given my daily experience waiting at Montlake, I would guess around 1,500 additional commuters. Also, 280 suburban night owl service but that&#8217;s negligible.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57430</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57430</guid>
		<description>So the numbers are pretty evenly split with Metro providing a little over half (~53%) of the trips. If you take all Metro boardings as being trips across SR520 you come up with 4,000 people a day. That&#039;s a little less than the 5,500 I derived from the press release numbers (i.e. 1 million = 35% increase) but I only counted work days, not weekends. So the number of daily commuters on the SR520 corridor served by Metro looks to be right around 5,000 give or take. Given that that&#039;s both young urban professionals commuting to Redmond and Bellevue and yokels from the hicks going into the big city the numbers seem surprisingly low to me. OTOH, somewhere around 50-60 thousand people use SR520 every day so Metro and ST combined account for 10-15% which is pretty good. I think even the most dyed in the wool SUV/SOV driver would have to acknowledge that that many additional cars on the road would adversely impact their god given right to drive ;-)</description>
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So the numbers are pretty evenly split with Metro providing a little over half (~53%) of the trips. If you take all Metro boardings as being trips across SR520 you come up with 4,000 people a day. That&#8217;s a little less than the 5,500 I derived from the press release numbers (i.e. 1 million = 35% increase) but I only counted work days, not weekends. So the number of daily commuters on the SR520 corridor served by Metro looks to be right around 5,000 give or take. Given that that&#8217;s both young urban professionals commuting to Redmond and Bellevue and yokels from the hicks going into the big city the numbers seem surprisingly low to me. OTOH, somewhere around 50-60 thousand people use SR520 every day so Metro and ST combined account for 10-15% which is pretty good. I think even the most dyed in the wool SUV/SOV driver would have to acknowledge that that many additional cars on the road would adversely impact their god given right to drive ;-)<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Zed</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57422</link>
		<dc:creator>Zed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57422</guid>
		<description>But boardings are the only thing that can be counted and the only number that would be accurate. Anything else would just be an estimate and then they could be accused of over-estimating. Metro has plenty of statistics available for internal planning use, but they&#039;re not going to cram them all into a press release. I think you&#039;re over analyzing things and looking for a problem that doesn&#039;t exist.</description>
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But boardings are the only thing that can be counted and the only number that would be accurate. Anything else would just be an estimate and then they could be accused of over-estimating. Metro has plenty of statistics available for internal planning use, but they&#8217;re not going to cram them all into a press release. I think you&#8217;re over analyzing things and looking for a problem that doesn&#8217;t exist.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57417</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57417</guid>
		<description>Metro&#039;s Route Performance Reports do not include rides within the Ride Free Area in the evaluation.</description>
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Metro&#8217;s Route Performance Reports do not include rides within the Ride Free Area in the evaluation.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57415</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57415</guid>
		<description>The bulk of Metro buses on 520 are peak hour commuter routes. There&#039;s one CT route to Snohomish/Monroe.

The only all day buses across 520 are the 255, 271, 540, 545.

From Bejan&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flickr.com/photos/bgtothen/2529555618/sizes/o/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;2007 average weekday ridership chart&lt;/a&gt;, the 271 and 255 each had almost 4,000 boardings, the 545 had almost 5,000 boardings, and the 540 almost 2,000 boardings. So the 545 has 1/3 of the boardings. This is for entire routes not just 520.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
The bulk of Metro buses on 520 are peak hour commuter routes. There&#8217;s one CT route to Snohomish/Monroe.</p>
<p>The only all day buses across 520 are the 255, 271, 540, 545.</p>
<p>From Bejan&#8217;s <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/bgtothen/2529555618/sizes/o/" rel="nofollow">2007 average weekday ridership chart</a>, the 271 and 255 each had almost 4,000 boardings, the 545 had almost 5,000 boardings, and the 540 almost 2,000 boardings. So the 545 has 1/3 of the boardings. This is for entire routes not just 520.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57414</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57414</guid>
		<description>Sure there&#039;s all sorts of edge cases but I think there&#039;s enough tools available that Metro could come up with an reasonably accurate estimate for the number of trips and even a good estimate for number of people. Boardings on the other hand is really a pretty useless statistic if you can&#039;t place it in context. How many boardings are just people hopping on and off in the ride free zone? How many boardings are just someone riding two blocks to lunch because they have a pass? Rearranging routes can force a transfer and increase boardings. Is this a good thing? Maybe, if the same number of trips is being made more efficiently. On the other hand you might have more boardings but actually be losing ridership because the extra hassle pushed some people back into driving. So if Metro is claiming ridership is up 20% just because boardings are up by that much I call BS.</description>
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Sure there&#8217;s all sorts of edge cases but I think there&#8217;s enough tools available that Metro could come up with an reasonably accurate estimate for the number of trips and even a good estimate for number of people. Boardings on the other hand is really a pretty useless statistic if you can&#8217;t place it in context. How many boardings are just people hopping on and off in the ride free zone? How many boardings are just someone riding two blocks to lunch because they have a pass? Rearranging routes can force a transfer and increase boardings. Is this a good thing? Maybe, if the same number of trips is being made more efficiently. On the other hand you might have more boardings but actually be losing ridership because the extra hassle pushed some people back into driving. So if Metro is claiming ridership is up 20% just because boardings are up by that much I call BS.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mickymse</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57407</link>
		<dc:creator>Mickymse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57407</guid>
		<description>Bernie, I agree that the terms used can seem misleading to non-transit types...

That said, you don&#039;t get to just make guesses as to what numbers feel right to you, either. 

Most planners I know DO assume most transit trips are return, and not just one-way. OTOH, I actually regularly commute only one way and get picked up to return home depending upon what I do after work. I&#039;m sure I&#039;m not the only one. And while many non-commute trips make involve multiple stops, you&#039;re providing no data to assess how many vs. folks like my husband who takes the bus round trip to work twice a week for medical appointments, making one and only one stop. 

Of course, just to really mix things up with something I hate about Metro: Does he count as two trips or one, since he can often use a transfer to make the return trip home? (I think transfers here should be directional.)</description>
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Bernie, I agree that the terms used can seem misleading to non-transit types&#8230;</p>
<p>That said, you don&#8217;t get to just make guesses as to what numbers feel right to you, either. </p>
<p>Most planners I know DO assume most transit trips are return, and not just one-way. OTOH, I actually regularly commute only one way and get picked up to return home depending upon what I do after work. I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m not the only one. And while many non-commute trips make involve multiple stops, you&#8217;re providing no data to assess how many vs. folks like my husband who takes the bus round trip to work twice a week for medical appointments, making one and only one stop. </p>
<p>Of course, just to really mix things up with something I hate about Metro: Does he count as two trips or one, since he can often use a transfer to make the return trip home? (I think transfers here should be directional.)<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57404</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57404</guid>
		<description>The other metric which can be measured accurately is revenue. You can get pretty close guessing how many trips each pass equates to and you can come close figuring out the number of cash fares (I think there&#039;s a pretty good handle on the number of &lt;a href=&quot;http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/07/17/five-million-metro-riders-dont-pay-fare&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fare evaders&lt;/a&gt; if you want to count them). Adding these together would give you a rough idea of number of trips taken.</description>
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The other metric which can be measured accurately is revenue. You can get pretty close guessing how many trips each pass equates to and you can come close figuring out the number of cash fares (I think there&#8217;s a pretty good handle on the number of <a href="http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/07/17/five-million-metro-riders-dont-pay-fare" rel="nofollow">fare evaders</a> if you want to count them). Adding these together would give you a rough idea of number of trips taken.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mickymse</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57400</link>
		<dc:creator>Mickymse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57400</guid>
		<description>A decrease in car traffic coming from the ferries and across the West Seattle Bridge in the morning would also be a HUGE benefit to everyone -- both transit and SOV users!</description>
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A decrease in car traffic coming from the ferries and across the West Seattle Bridge in the morning would also be a HUGE benefit to everyone &#8212; both transit and SOV users!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57389</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57389</guid>
		<description>Exactly, an official press release shouldn&#039;t muck up the water with misinformation. I think it&#039;s all useful information. If you increase the number of discretionary trips you&#039;re not reducing VMT. Not to say that increased mobility is a bad thing but it&#039;s not saving the planet. Knowing the number of employees which use transit is very useful information and the County and Sound Transit use surveys to estimate those numbers. It&#039;s especially important to know where people are commuting from and what employment centers are gaining or lossing percentage so that land use and transit planning can be done intelligently.

The 50,000 is just a guess. I think the numbers County wide for commuting is about 2.5% (not sure on that) and there&#039;s roughly a million jobs in King County. I&#039;m figuring half of transit use is purely commuting, could be more or less. Non-commute transit dependent riders are going to see more boardings per day because they make multiple trips. Anyway that puts it somewhere around 50,000 people that ride Metro. If someone can make a more refined guesstimate that would be great. I know everyone gets some benefit from public transit whether they use it or not but it would be useful to compare the amount of tax dollars spend per person on transit vs other needs (like schools) which must all be funded by the same pool of tax payers.</description>
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Exactly, an official press release shouldn&#8217;t muck up the water with misinformation. I think it&#8217;s all useful information. If you increase the number of discretionary trips you&#8217;re not reducing VMT. Not to say that increased mobility is a bad thing but it&#8217;s not saving the planet. Knowing the number of employees which use transit is very useful information and the County and Sound Transit use surveys to estimate those numbers. It&#8217;s especially important to know where people are commuting from and what employment centers are gaining or lossing percentage so that land use and transit planning can be done intelligently.</p>
<p>The 50,000 is just a guess. I think the numbers County wide for commuting is about 2.5% (not sure on that) and there&#8217;s roughly a million jobs in King County. I&#8217;m figuring half of transit use is purely commuting, could be more or less. Non-commute transit dependent riders are going to see more boardings per day because they make multiple trips. Anyway that puts it somewhere around 50,000 people that ride Metro. If someone can make a more refined guesstimate that would be great. I know everyone gets some benefit from public transit whether they use it or not but it would be useful to compare the amount of tax dollars spend per person on transit vs other needs (like schools) which must all be funded by the same pool of tax payers.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Matt L</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/07/23/metro-to-fund-rapidride-with-no-net-tax-increase/#comment-57380</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=6643#comment-57380</guid>
		<description>Right.  He&#039;s saying that they can&#039;t tell how many people ride per day, so they shouldn&#039;t represent the number of boardings as the number of people.</description>
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Right.  He&#8217;s saying that they can&#8217;t tell how many people ride per day, so they shouldn&#8217;t represent the number of boardings as the number of people.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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