Comments on: Capitol Hill Tunnel Bid 12% Under Estimates http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/ Transit in the Greater Seattle Area Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:33:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Zed http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-66044 Zed Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:32:08 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-66044 No. There is no extra money and if there were it would have to be spent in the sub-area in which it was raised.
No. There is no extra money and if there were it would have to be spent in the sub-area in which it was raised.

]]> By: Nathanael http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-66024 Nathanael Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:24:26 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-66024 'No, it doesn’t work that way. They have a mandate to build certain light rail lines, and if it costs less than they expect it just means that less of the cost will have to be financed and they can roll back the taxes sooner. There’s no “extra” money.' However, could the "extra" money from lower bids on University Link go to cover the increased costs of Sounder to Lakewood (for instance), which is also part of the same mandate? That would be *extremely* worthwhile, since that bridge over Pacific Ave. just keeps getting more expensive.
‘No, it doesn’t work that way. They have a mandate to build certain light rail lines, and if it costs less than they expect it just means that less of the cost will have to be financed and they can roll back the taxes sooner. There’s no “extra” money.’

However, could the “extra” money from lower bids on University Link go to cover the increased costs of Sounder to Lakewood (for instance), which is also part of the same mandate? That would be *extremely* worthwhile, since that bridge over Pacific Ave. just keeps getting more expensive.

]]> By: octopus http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64963 octopus Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:21:26 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64963 Its more about the permitting though isn't it? The city still can drag its feet on granting the appropriate permits. I believe that was Nickles' threat with the Viaduct.
Its more about the permitting though isn’t it? The city still can drag its feet on granting the appropriate permits. I believe that was Nickles’ threat with the Viaduct.

]]> By: Metro Links 8/28/09 | NextStop STL http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64898 Metro Links 8/28/09 | NextStop STL Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:51:59 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64898 [...] at the Seattle Transit Blog looks at tunnel construction cost bids and price fluctuations that impact a project’s final [...]
[...] at the Seattle Transit Blog looks at tunnel construction cost bids and price fluctuations that impact a project’s final [...]

]]> By: mike http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64835 mike Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:41:28 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64835 actually, it would take a lot of inflation to make the cost of a project increase significantly. estimators build in inflation and escalation costs into an estimate report. cost overruns are issues of oversight (botched soils reports, scope creep), poor decisions regarding payouts and bad management. it's very rarely an issue of material cost.
actually, it would take a lot of inflation to make the cost of a project increase significantly.

estimators build in inflation and escalation costs into an estimate report.

cost overruns are issues of oversight (botched soils reports, scope creep), poor decisions regarding payouts and bad management. it’s very rarely an issue of material cost.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64792 Ben Schiendelman Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:14:50 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64792 You would, actually, see that from McGinn, I suspect.
You would, actually, see that from McGinn, I suspect.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64791 Ben Schiendelman Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:14:35 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64791 Mallahan would likely try to stop the streetcar, as I understand it. I hope we have the streetcar planning wrapped up before Nickels is out of office.
Mallahan would likely try to stop the streetcar, as I understand it.

I hope we have the streetcar planning wrapped up before Nickels is out of office.

]]> By: Bernie http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64787 Bernie Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:59:23 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64787 <blockquote>I suppose Mallahan, given his previous comments about them blocking traffic, might actually be that anti-streetcar.</blockquote> Or maybe he's so anti sharing traffic lanes that he'd push for dedicated ROW :*)

I suppose Mallahan, given his previous comments about them blocking traffic, might actually be that anti-streetcar.

Or maybe he’s so anti sharing traffic lanes that he’d push for dedicated ROW :*)

]]> By: Christopher Stefan http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64782 Christopher Stefan Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:23:30 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64782 The final decision on the routing of the First Hill SC is supposed to happen this year from what I understand. I have no idea if McGinn, Mallahan, or Murray would put up city money to get the line open earlier. Probably not given the current tight budgets. I doubt any of them would actively try to stop it. Though I suppose Mallahan, given his previous comments about them blocking traffic, might actually be that anti-streetcar.
The final decision on the routing of the First Hill SC is supposed to happen this year from what I understand.

I have no idea if McGinn, Mallahan, or Murray would put up city money to get the line open earlier. Probably not given the current tight budgets. I doubt any of them would actively try to stop it. Though I suppose Mallahan, given his previous comments about them blocking traffic, might actually be that anti-streetcar.

]]> By: Bernie http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64771 Bernie Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:30:29 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64771 I doubt there will be any money offered up by the city to accelerate the Pill Hill Streetcar. I doubt there will even be a consensuses on the route by 2012. I would expect that at least if Mallahan wins in November there will be a major shake-up at SDOT and at least a year before new personnel can be brought in and be effective. It seems like it would be wise to include a terminus at the Capitol Hill station. I suppose if it were brought on line earlier it could be turned around short of there until construction is complete. It will be a big job to do it right.
I doubt there will be any money offered up by the city to accelerate the Pill Hill Streetcar. I doubt there will even be a consensuses on the route by 2012. I would expect that at least if Mallahan wins in November there will be a major shake-up at SDOT and at least a year before new personnel can be brought in and be effective. It seems like it would be wise to include a terminus at the Capitol Hill station. I suppose if it were brought on line earlier it could be turned around short of there until construction is complete. It will be a big job to do it right.

]]> By: lazarus http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64763 lazarus Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:17:09 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64763 Ah, but the city might not want to speed up the First Hill SC under M or M. Yes, it's in the ST2 plan so I can't imagine the new Mayor being able to stop it directly, but he sure could make things messy if he wasn't onboard.
Ah, but the city might not want to speed up the First Hill SC under M or M.

Yes, it’s in the ST2 plan so I can’t imagine the new Mayor being able to stop it directly, but he sure could make things messy if he wasn’t onboard.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64722 Ben Schiendelman Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:45:47 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64722 datajunkie, I wouldn't worry too much. We just need a big public outreach to come up with a project and fund it.
datajunkie, I wouldn’t worry too much. We just need a big public outreach to come up with a project and fund it.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64693 Ben Schiendelman Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:49:51 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64693 I don't know where you heard that about U-Link. The "they" who want to speed up the streetcar is the city. Sound Transit has money programmed into their budget for 2015-ish (for an opening date around the same time as U-Link, I think) but the city wants to fund it earlier, perhaps for service as early as 2012. We haven't had any news on that in a bit.
I don’t know where you heard that about U-Link.

The “they” who want to speed up the streetcar is the city. Sound Transit has money programmed into their budget for 2015-ish (for an opening date around the same time as U-Link, I think) but the city wants to fund it earlier, perhaps for service as early as 2012. We haven’t had any news on that in a bit.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64691 Ben Schiendelman Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:48:08 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64691 Not 2050? :)
Not 2050? :)

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64690 Ben Schiendelman Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:47:48 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64690 Colin: Zed's exactly right.
Colin: Zed’s exactly right.

]]> By: Zed http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64685 Zed Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:29:42 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64685 "I mean, doesn’t ST have a mandate to collect and spend a certain amount of money for the system, and if they can get it done cheaper, they can spend the rest of that money on other things?" No, it doesn't work that way. They have a mandate to build certain light rail lines, and if it costs less than they expect it just means that less of the cost will have to be financed and they can roll back the taxes sooner. There's no "extra" money.
“I mean, doesn’t ST have a mandate to collect and spend a certain amount of money for the system, and if they can get it done cheaper, they can spend the rest of that money on other things?”

No, it doesn’t work that way. They have a mandate to build certain light rail lines, and if it costs less than they expect it just means that less of the cost will have to be financed and they can roll back the taxes sooner. There’s no “extra” money.

]]> By: Zed http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64683 Zed Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:22:32 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64683 Plus a Ballard to Seattle route would have stops in Lower Queen Anne and Belltown, which would generate significant ridership on their own.
Plus a Ballard to Seattle route would have stops in Lower Queen Anne and Belltown, which would generate significant ridership on their own.

]]> By: Colin http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64658 Colin Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:21:36 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64658 Well, isn't there more money overall? I mean, doesn't ST have a mandate to collect and spend a certain amount of money for the system, and if they can get it done cheaper, they can spend the rest of that money on other things? As for the reason for the low bids, I'm in the construction industry, and this is standard right now. Bidders are HUNGRY, and you often see MUCH more competition for projects these days. A bid that would have gotten 2 or 3 GC's bidding suddenly gets 8 or 10. Every project i've seen bid in the past year has been below budget. One project I'm on came in 37% below budget. I just hope they can get the North Link bids out while the environment is so competitive. But, i understand with less money coming in, it's tough for them to hire enough staff.
Well, isn’t there more money overall? I mean, doesn’t ST have a mandate to collect and spend a certain amount of money for the system, and if they can get it done cheaper, they can spend the rest of that money on other things?

As for the reason for the low bids, I’m in the construction industry, and this is standard right now. Bidders are HUNGRY, and you often see MUCH more competition for projects these days. A bid that would have gotten 2 or 3 GC’s bidding suddenly gets 8 or 10. Every project i’ve seen bid in the past year has been below budget. One project I’m on came in 37% below budget.

I just hope they can get the North Link bids out while the environment is so competitive. But, i understand with less money coming in, it’s tough for them to hire enough staff.

]]> By: Michael http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64657 Michael Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:18:47 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64657 Anyone heard of any news on the First Hill Streetcar? I thought they wanted to speed up completion from 2014 to 2012? Also, I thought ST was speeding up the U-Link to 2014?
Anyone heard of any news on the First Hill Streetcar? I thought they wanted to speed up completion from 2014 to 2012? Also, I thought ST was speeding up the U-Link to 2014?

]]> By: Jennifer http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/08/26/capitol-hill-tunnel-bid-12-under-estimates/#comment-64653 Jennifer Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:02:40 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7570#comment-64653 Good point, Ben, and one that should be made more often. When a project this big is completed, though, several years down the road from the initial cost estimate, people see the reports on the "final" numbers and if they exceed the initial estimate, then it's assumed someone screwed up. But it doesn't take much inflation or even that big a jump in the price of steel for a big project's cost to quickly increase! And that doesn't even account for all of the changes that are inevitably made as people review the project & add features, or encounter on-the-ground situations and adjust to them appropriately.
Good point, Ben, and one that should be made more often. When a project this big is completed, though, several years down the road from the initial cost estimate, people see the reports on the “final” numbers and if they exceed the initial estimate, then it’s assumed someone screwed up. But it doesn’t take much inflation or even that big a jump in the price of steel for a big project’s cost to quickly increase! And that doesn’t even account for all of the changes that are inevitably made as people review the project & add features, or encounter on-the-ground situations and adjust to them appropriately.

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