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	<title>Comments on: Real-Time Arrival Information: It Really Pays Off</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-66559</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-66559</guid>
		<description>Try the text-only or iPhone version from your computer.  I use the iPhone version for everything and I don&#039;t even have an iPhone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Try the text-only or iPhone version from your computer.  I use the iPhone version for everything and I don&#8217;t even have an iPhone.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-66429</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 06:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-66429</guid>
		<description>After using One Bus Away for a few minutes, sorry but I&#039;m going back to using the Metro Tracker. First, it works a lot better on my computer. I&#039;m an old fella and can&#039;t afford a new PC, and that One Bus Away thing is very slow on mine. It&#039;s only a 4 year old PC. 

Also, Tracker is much easier to understand. It took me lots of head scratching to figure out how to use One Bus Away and I still only have it partly figured out. Finally, by accident, a little white box thing popped up when I dragged the mouse around one of the tiny green dots. But the dots aren&#039;t labeled as to which dot is which bus stop so it was trial and error. It wasn&#039;t the right stop so I clicked on the &quot;look for other stop&quot; thing and it took me to an overview of the Puget Sound area, instead of back to the bus I was looking for. So I hit the back button a few times and after it stood there thinking for a while, it went back to more or less where I was. But this thing is not only slow as molasses but confusing to boot. 

The kicker was that I only noticed that it said in &quot;Nbound&quot; in the fine print after I wrote down the schedule time. But I was going southbound. Why can&#039;t it say both of the times, or at least let you (i.e. remind you) to pick which direction first? Or at least say which direction in big black bold type. Which direction it&#039;s going is VERY important! My memory isn&#039;t what it used to be which is one reason I ride the bus. It&#039;s too easy to make &quot;little&quot; mistakes like that without noticing it with this program, or get confused about the different pages. I just find it much easier to use Tracker. Further, I think the people who made Tracker actually thought about things like that, and whoever made One Bus Away didn&#039;t. Tracker is much less confusing and it helps me to be less error prone compared to this. Maybe you don&#039;t sympathize but you&#039;re young yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
After using One Bus Away for a few minutes, sorry but I&#8217;m going back to using the Metro Tracker. First, it works a lot better on my computer. I&#8217;m an old fella and can&#8217;t afford a new PC, and that One Bus Away thing is very slow on mine. It&#8217;s only a 4 year old PC. </p>
<p>Also, Tracker is much easier to understand. It took me lots of head scratching to figure out how to use One Bus Away and I still only have it partly figured out. Finally, by accident, a little white box thing popped up when I dragged the mouse around one of the tiny green dots. But the dots aren&#8217;t labeled as to which dot is which bus stop so it was trial and error. It wasn&#8217;t the right stop so I clicked on the &#8220;look for other stop&#8221; thing and it took me to an overview of the Puget Sound area, instead of back to the bus I was looking for. So I hit the back button a few times and after it stood there thinking for a while, it went back to more or less where I was. But this thing is not only slow as molasses but confusing to boot. </p>
<p>The kicker was that I only noticed that it said in &#8220;Nbound&#8221; in the fine print after I wrote down the schedule time. But I was going southbound. Why can&#8217;t it say both of the times, or at least let you (i.e. remind you) to pick which direction first? Or at least say which direction in big black bold type. Which direction it&#8217;s going is VERY important! My memory isn&#8217;t what it used to be which is one reason I ride the bus. It&#8217;s too easy to make &#8220;little&#8221; mistakes like that without noticing it with this program, or get confused about the different pages. I just find it much easier to use Tracker. Further, I think the people who made Tracker actually thought about things like that, and whoever made One Bus Away didn&#8217;t. Tracker is much less confusing and it helps me to be less error prone compared to this. Maybe you don&#8217;t sympathize but you&#8217;re young yet.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Adam B. Parast</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65997</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam B. Parast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65997</guid>
		<description>That is all good and dandy for Rapidride but that model makes it necessary to built a fiber network everywhere that they want to have real-time information. That is never going to happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
That is all good and dandy for Rapidride but that model makes it necessary to built a fiber network everywhere that they want to have real-time information. That is never going to happen.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jessics</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65869</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 00:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65869</guid>
		<description>I believe Intercity Transit does this at the Olympia Transit Center as well</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I believe Intercity Transit does this at the Olympia Transit Center as well<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65850</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 21:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65850</guid>
		<description>For RapidRide, Metro is deploying a 4.9 GHz 802.11 (Wi-Fi) + Fiber network for real-time communication between buses, traffic signals, bus stops (ORCA readers and reader boards), transit control center, and bases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
For RapidRide, Metro is deploying a 4.9 GHz 802.11 (Wi-Fi) + Fiber network for real-time communication between buses, traffic signals, bus stops (ORCA readers and reader boards), transit control center, and bases.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Adam B. Parast</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65848</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam B. Parast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 21:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65848</guid>
		<description>Thanks. Found it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Thanks. Found it.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: serial catowner</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65789</link>
		<dc:creator>serial catowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65789</guid>
		<description>Well, if a matter involves considerable expense and complexity, seems to me it&#039;s the people who want to do it that need to make the argument.

However, in this case I assume real-time information is (or should be) free, just sitting around waiting for someone to use it, as a result of GPS systems and more sophisticated scheduling tools.  Considering how long the over-the-road truckers have been using these tools (and more!) my only real question here is why it&#039;s taking so long.

However, I would sympathize with the transit system if they had a nightmare where people complain about buses that are one or two minutes late- &lt;i&gt;because they can&lt;/i&gt;.  After all, this is a system that makes it appear that &lt;i&gt;every minute counts&lt;/i&gt;.  Maybe people will be happy to learn exactly how late the bus is, maybe they&#039;ll be angry.

Time for another survey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Well, if a matter involves considerable expense and complexity, seems to me it&#8217;s the people who want to do it that need to make the argument.</p>
<p>However, in this case I assume real-time information is (or should be) free, just sitting around waiting for someone to use it, as a result of GPS systems and more sophisticated scheduling tools.  Considering how long the over-the-road truckers have been using these tools (and more!) my only real question here is why it&#8217;s taking so long.</p>
<p>However, I would sympathize with the transit system if they had a nightmare where people complain about buses that are one or two minutes late- <i>because they can</i>.  After all, this is a system that makes it appear that <i>every minute counts</i>.  Maybe people will be happy to learn exactly how late the bus is, maybe they&#8217;ll be angry.</p>
<p>Time for another survey.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: AndrewN</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65757</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65757</guid>
		<description>serial catowner:
I use OneBusAway for real-time info, and I make use of the extra few minutes. It&#039;s nice, but I don&#039;t think my adaptability is ‘amazing’ or unusual.

In the mornings, if my bus is late, I use that time to clean up a bit of my apartment or make some tea. While not super-productive, it&#039;s better than waiting...

And, using your example, in the afternoon, I check on my bus while at work. If it&#039;s late, I make use of that time to send an email or do a bit of work on one of my tasks. That&#039;s productivity and is an economic benefit.

Finally, don&#039;t you think that there is a correlation between people &#039;feel[ing] better&#039; about using transit and people using more transit? Honestly, I find your argument to be &#039;one of the least persuasive&#039; that I&#039;ve ever heard against real-time information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
serial catowner:<br />
I use OneBusAway for real-time info, and I make use of the extra few minutes. It&#8217;s nice, but I don&#8217;t think my adaptability is ‘amazing’ or unusual.</p>
<p>In the mornings, if my bus is late, I use that time to clean up a bit of my apartment or make some tea. While not super-productive, it&#8217;s better than waiting&#8230;</p>
<p>And, using your example, in the afternoon, I check on my bus while at work. If it&#8217;s late, I make use of that time to send an email or do a bit of work on one of my tasks. That&#8217;s productivity and is an economic benefit.</p>
<p>Finally, don&#8217;t you think that there is a correlation between people &#8216;feel[ing] better&#8217; about using transit and people using more transit? Honestly, I find your argument to be &#8216;one of the least persuasive&#8217; that I&#8217;ve ever heard against real-time information.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: serial catowner</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65729</link>
		<dc:creator>serial catowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65729</guid>
		<description>Well, so far, you&#039;ve implied that I take &quot;too narrow a view&quot;, that I want &quot;an 8-word answer&quot;, and that (amazingly enough, considering how narrow-minded and simple you seem to think I am) reading a 70-page paper will convince me that this system &quot;can&quot; increase ridership and make people &quot;more likely&quot; to ride.

Or at least that they will feel better- which is presumably cheaper than giving everyone a pony, but not explicitly stated.

Presumably this is a situation analogous to the automobile, which gets &lt;strike&gt;about the same&lt;/strike&gt; worse mileage than a 1959 Morris Minor, costs ten times as much, but is, I am assured by young people, ever so much better.

And to that judgement I will defer, and even stand in awe of somebody who can fashion anything meaningful out of five minutes of time that would otherwise be wasted.  I can do that when I&#039;m at work in my chosen profession, which involves a lot of multi-tasking, but doing it in response to learning the bus will be late- that&#039;s amazing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Well, so far, you&#8217;ve implied that I take &#8220;too narrow a view&#8221;, that I want &#8220;an 8-word answer&#8221;, and that (amazingly enough, considering how narrow-minded and simple you seem to think I am) reading a 70-page paper will convince me that this system &#8220;can&#8221; increase ridership and make people &#8220;more likely&#8221; to ride.</p>
<p>Or at least that they will feel better- which is presumably cheaper than giving everyone a pony, but not explicitly stated.</p>
<p>Presumably this is a situation analogous to the automobile, which gets <strike>about the same</strike> worse mileage than a 1959 Morris Minor, costs ten times as much, but is, I am assured by young people, ever so much better.</p>
<p>And to that judgement I will defer, and even stand in awe of somebody who can fashion anything meaningful out of five minutes of time that would otherwise be wasted.  I can do that when I&#8217;m at work in my chosen profession, which involves a lot of multi-tasking, but doing it in response to learning the bus will be late- that&#8217;s amazing.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65714</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65714</guid>
		<description>Perhaps a private company would be willing to provide the displays in public locations like bus stops and other suitable spots in exchange for the ability to use the displays for advertising.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Perhaps a private company would be willing to provide the displays in public locations like bus stops and other suitable spots in exchange for the ability to use the displays for advertising.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65710</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65710</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that Metro could find a cheaper solution than using the cellular network. For that matter the cost of using cell networks for data transmission has come way down in the past few years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
It seems to me that Metro could find a cheaper solution than using the cellular network. For that matter the cost of using cell networks for data transmission has come way down in the past few years.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65707</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65707</guid>
		<description>Yet another reason to maybe partner with a private company who gets the right to display some advertising and who will maintain the screens.

We might be able to get some modern large flat panel displays mounted where more than one person can read them too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Yet another reason to maybe partner with a private company who gets the right to display some advertising and who will maintain the screens.</p>
<p>We might be able to get some modern large flat panel displays mounted where more than one person can read them too.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65699</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65699</guid>
		<description>Overlake had one for a while, but these things are bottom priority for repair, so they tend to break and never get fixed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Overlake had one for a while, but these things are bottom priority for repair, so they tend to break and never get fixed.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Barman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65654</link>
		<dc:creator>Barman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 09:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65654</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s from the quarterly Metro employees newsletter &quot;In Transit&quot;. I can&#039;t seem to find a link to it right now, but I read the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
It&#8217;s from the quarterly Metro employees newsletter &#8220;In Transit&#8221;. I can&#8217;t seem to find a link to it right now, but I read the same thing.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Adam B. Parast</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65645</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam B. Parast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 07:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65645</guid>
		<description>Could you point me to where you found this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Could you point me to where you found this?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Adam B. Parast</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65644</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam B. Parast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 07:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65644</guid>
		<description>See what Brian said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
See what Brian said.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bern Grush</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65624</link>
		<dc:creator>Bern Grush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 04:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65624</guid>
		<description>Serial Catowner:
In fairness to Adam, he did not answer your question.  He suggested you&#039;d need to read the 70 page paper, where it is explained. We all want a simple eight-word answer to our questions, but transportation (and most other things) are just not that trivial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Serial Catowner:<br />
In fairness to Adam, he did not answer your question.  He suggested you&#8217;d need to read the 70 page paper, where it is explained. We all want a simple eight-word answer to our questions, but transportation (and most other things) are just not that trivial.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65611</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 03:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65611</guid>
		<description>The perfect place for that to happen would be in Columbia City&#039;s &quot;downtown&quot; area for Link. You would be able to know whether you had time to grab a cup of coffee or if you had to hightail it to the station.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
The perfect place for that to happen would be in Columbia City&#8217;s &#8220;downtown&#8221; area for Link. You would be able to know whether you had time to grab a cup of coffee or if you had to hightail it to the station.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Transport Gooru &#187; Bernie&#8217;s Transportation Communications Newsletter (TCN) &#8211; September 1, 2009</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65601</link>
		<dc:creator>Transport Gooru &#187; Bernie&#8217;s Transportation Communications Newsletter (TCN) &#8211; September 1, 2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 02:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65601</guid>
		<description>[...] http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[...] <a href="http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/" rel="nofollow">http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/</a> [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: serial catowner</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/09/01/real-time-info-pays-of/#comment-65577</link>
		<dc:creator>serial catowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 00:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=7620#comment-65577</guid>
		<description>For a variety of reasons, this is one of the least persuasive answers I&#039;ve ever read, but I can see everyone is very enthusiastic about this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
For a variety of reasons, this is one of the least persuasive answers I&#8217;ve ever read, but I can see everyone is very enthusiastic about this.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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