Comments on: Two Sound Transit Reports

By: Mike Orr

Mike Orr — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:20:43 +0000

Office shuttles to transit stations are more widespread in the Bay Area. Hopefully they will increase here. Boeing could be an example (but so far it hasn’t been).

By: joshuadf

joshuadf — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:55:53 +0000

Yeah, there’s a reason the station is “Olympia/Lacey”.

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:44:28 +0000

By “middle of nowhere” I was refering to the Olympia Amtrak station itself which is a couple of miles from downtown and bordered by fields on two sides and suburban sprawl on two others. Olympia the metro area is hardly in the middle of nowhere.

By: Bernie

Bernie — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:11:58 +0000

Yeah, B’ham at 60,000 is more of a surprise to me. I guess it’s because it’s the “end of the line” in many cases for a lot of folks headed to/from Canada. Oly’s not so much the middle of nowhere anymore. Lacey has mushroomed; the military presence and some major employers in Dupont I would guess driving much of it. It’s also the gateway to the Olympic Peninsula. I’m also surprised Tukwila was only 20,000; same as Kelso/Longview and Everett. Mt Vernon beats them all with 25,000 (outlet malls?). Or maybe it’s just the really cool hand dryers at Skagit Station ;-)

By: Bernie

Bernie — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:58:06 +0000

Yes, WWU students registered for 6 or more credit hours are automatically assessed $25 per quarter and receive a WTA bus pass.

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:56:13 +0000

Thanks I hadn’t looked at the data so I wasn’t sure. Still Olympia is pretty busy, especially considering the station is out in the middle of nowhere.

By: joshuadf

joshuadf — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:47:25 +0000

FYI, you can do Amtrak reservations literally minutes before getting on, even with amtrakguestrewards points. You can also cancel for no reason with no penalty. But, it doesn’t save you any money and you’re playing with fire if you want a seat on busy holidays. Check out amtrakguestrewards though: only 3000 points per coach ticket for Cascades. We take several free trips a year because we have the credit card. Just don’t give the card to your college kid. ;)

By: Mike Orr

Mike Orr — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:35:38 +0000

Amtrak charges based on how full the train is. You can get the minimum fare by booking 2-4 weeks in advance or riding on a weekday. The minimum was $20 the last time I rode to Vancouver, but that was several years ago. Amtrak can’t raise the fares much or budget-minded people like me will take Greyhound. I already take Greyhound more than I’d like because the Cascades schedules are so limited.

I think the $20 fare is pretty impressive compared to Amtrak’s other services, and I assume it’s because of the state subsidy. So take the train and put your tax dollars to a better cause than highways. :)

By: Kaleci

Kaleci — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:32:29 +0000

The fare between Bellingham and Mount Vernon is $2. But still a great deal from Bellingham to Bellevue (Total for $6.50). The “free” ride is probably because of the Western Washington University bus pass that costs $25 per quarter.

By: Bernie

Bernie — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:42:46 +0000

I wouldn’t be surprised if [Olympia] is the busiest stop between Seattle and Portland.

Actually from the on-offs data, Tacoma 90,000, Vancouver WA 60,000 and Olympia 40,000. The other stops, Kelso/Longview, Tukwila, Centralia are all 17.5-25 thousand.

By: Bernie

Bernie — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:34:35 +0000

Looking at the on-offs (latest data I found was 2006) I come up with only about 85 people average (I’m sure some time slots are way more popular) riding B’ham to Seattle. The train is the same length from B’ham to Seattle as from Seattle to Portland, right? So there must be quiet a bit of unused capacity on the northern leg. In the ridership report they mentioned several reasons ridership had dropped in ‘06 from ‘05 (floods, maintenance on rolling stock, poor on time performance) but they don’t list competition from buses. The $20 fare seems reasonable but it’s tough to compete with “free” (Whatcom Transit County Connector) or even $2 fares for 60 mile express bus trips. I understand why the county transit agencies are providing the subsidies (commutes from the hinterlands) but, if the train is cheaper and has untapped capacity, it seems like we’re missing out on something?

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:01:30 +0000

I don’t think the problem with Amtrak between Seattle and Bellingham/Vancouver has been ridership. If anything Amtrak could probably get away with raising the fares on most of the Cascade runs both North and South of Seattle.

For going to Olympia the train is faster and a much nicer ride though the bus is much cheaper. Still there is no lack of passengers getting on or off in Olympia. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if it is the busiest stop between Seattle and Portland.

By: Bernie

Bernie — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:55:14 +0000

The subsidies are a little out of whack. Our son just started at WWU in Bellingham. It costs $20 each way to take Amtrack from B’ham to Seattle. Then another couple of bucks to get a bus out to Bellevue Transit Center. He can take a free Whatcom County bus down to Skagit Transit Center. Then it’s $2-3 to get a Skagit Express bus to Everett where he can transfer to another express bus directly to Bellevue Transit Center.

Depart 3:08PM WWU Shuttle -> Whatcom X80 -> Skagit 90X -> ST 532 Arrive BTC 6:08PM

Granted the service hours aren’t as good as the train (have to leave B’ham in the evening and return in the AM, actually good for him) and the train is a nicer ride but time wise it’s a wash and the bus is an order of magnitude cheaper.

Amtrak requires reservations. Maybe they should start offering cheap “stand-by” tickets to fill seats that are empty? Airlines have made this work.

Interestingly, it doesn’t appear the train is too expensive. Private companies like Airporter run shuttles at Thanksgiving and Christmas break and charge the same as Amtrack. It’s the bus subsidies that are killing the train ridership.

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:26:37 +0000

With East Link there will also be network effects. With the full ST2 system how many people who might currently drive would take Link instead. Someone who lives in Shoreline or Federal Way who currently drives to Overlake might instead drive to a park & ride and take Link.

By: Carl

Carl — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:43:38 +0000

Why is the ST bus fare & monthly pass from Tacoma so much cheaper than Sounder? The fares should be structured to encourage people to ride Sounder since the marginal cost per passenger is so much lower. 200 people can fit in a railcar with no additional employee needed, whereas every 50 riders need another bus with another driver. At least the fares/passes should be equal. It is bad policy that the higher marginal cost service has lower fares.

By: Matt

Matt — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 00:07:55 +0000

That flood of people is the bane of my existence! The water analogy is apt – the Weller Street crossing from King Street Station to International District Station looks like a floodgate when the crossing signal changes. When the Sounder arrives like 30 seconds early, my 6:45 a.m. 72 from IDS gets packed… oh well, I guess high ridership is still good.

By: Martin H. Duke

Martin H. Duke — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:14:36 +0000

Yeah, I was trying to avoid getting into the weeds.

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:13:26 +0000

There is a huge flood of people walking between the ID Station and Sounder platforms during both the morning and evening commutes. I’m sure at least a few of those people are riding all the way from Tacoma Dome station.

Some Russel employees may choose to take the sometimes faster bus instead but others might go for the predictability and comfort of Sounder.

Also at least some Russel employees might actually be closer to the Puyallup, Summner, or Auburn stations in which case Sounder probably is the fastest public transit option.

By: Andrew Smith

Andrew Smith — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:48:21 +0000

I don’t agree, (other) Andrew. I used to commute from San Francisco to San Jose on Caltrain (an hour trip) with a ton of coworkers. eBay ran a shuttle from the Caltrain station to the office. Other people switched to the light rail from the caltrain station to the office.

1) What makes you believe RI wouldn’t run a shuttle from King Street to RI?
2) Why would few people walk the block to the ID station and then the 100 feet from the University Street station to the office?

I bet more people have 1+ hour commutes than you think.

By: Andrew Smith

Andrew Smith — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:45:41 +0000

Great post Martin!
It’s worth noting that there are a good number of metro routes from Seattle to the Eastside as well.