Comments on: The Bomb Shelter Called Sound Transit 2 http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/ Transit in the Greater Seattle Area Fri, 25 May 2012 20:50:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Infill Stations - Seattle Transit Blog http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-78970 Infill Stations - Seattle Transit Blog Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:48:15 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-78970 [...] Transit doesn’t have a lot of extra cash lying around right now, but should that change, surplus subarea funds might be used to construct an [...]
[...] Transit doesn’t have a lot of extra cash lying around right now, but should that change, surplus subarea funds might be used to construct an [...]

]]> By: Chris Stefan http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-73063 Chris Stefan Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:57:39 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-73063 I'd set the parking charge to whatever the "market clearing" rate is. That means the lot has a small number of spaces (say 2%) that stay open all day. For some lots that charge is still "free" but for a number of lots that fill quite early (Mercer Island) it might be $5 per day or so.
I’d set the parking charge to whatever the “market clearing” rate is. That means the lot has a small number of spaces (say 2%) that stay open all day. For some lots that charge is still “free” but for a number of lots that fill quite early (Mercer Island) it might be $5 per day or so.

]]> By: Mike Orr http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-73031 Mike Orr Sun, 11 Oct 2009 00:51:11 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-73031 A small charge at park n rides would be a good thing. But it needs to be small enough that people aren't discouraged from using them. We <i>want</i> people to use them because they shorten the car trip by 80% and keep those cars off the crowded highways. There may be some legal obstacles to charging though because they were built (and in some cases explicitly approved by voters) on the assumption that they would be free. The rate could start at 50c and rise gradually to $2 over four years. Remember that the total cost of the trip includes a transit fare on top of that.
A small charge at park n rides would be a good thing. But it needs to be small enough that people aren’t discouraged from using them. We want people to use them because they shorten the car trip by 80% and keep those cars off the crowded highways. There may be some legal obstacles to charging though because they were built (and in some cases explicitly approved by voters) on the assumption that they would be free.

The rate could start at 50c and rise gradually to $2 over four years. Remember that the total cost of the trip includes a transit fare on top of that.

]]> By: Zef Wagner http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72968 Zef Wagner Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:49:57 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72968 Amen. It is crazy to not charge for parking. Like you say, it is a reasonable user fee and it also would encourage other ways of getting to the stations.
Amen. It is crazy to not charge for parking. Like you say, it is a reasonable user fee and it also would encourage other ways of getting to the stations.

]]> By: alexjonlin http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72925 alexjonlin Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:16:40 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72925 I think they should keep that parking (as much as we don't like it most people have to drive to the stations), but they should charge a couple dollars a day for it. Parking costs a huge amount to build and maintain, so the users should pay part of the cost for it, just like transit riders pay part of the cost for transit.
I think they should keep that parking (as much as we don’t like it most people have to drive to the stations), but they should charge a couple dollars a day for it. Parking costs a huge amount to build and maintain, so the users should pay part of the cost for it, just like transit riders pay part of the cost for transit.

]]> By: alexjonlin http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72924 alexjonlin Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:15:27 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72924 I think it might be one of the cost-cutting measures. S 200th is already at 1/3 design so they could have that extension open soon, and it'll cost less to build in 2013 than 2020.
I think it might be one of the cost-cutting measures. S 200th is already at 1/3 design so they could have that extension open soon, and it’ll cost less to build in 2013 than 2020.

]]> By: eddiew http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72901 eddiew Sat, 10 Oct 2009 03:53:38 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72901 one easy place to reduce costs in ST2: cut the number of park-and-ride stalls at Link stations. those funds would attract more riders if used for service any way.
one easy place to reduce costs in ST2: cut the number of park-and-ride stalls at Link stations. those funds would attract more riders if used for service any way.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72887 Ben Schiendelman Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:12:41 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72887 What's really funny is that no, on the conference call, I asked if that was planned, and Lindblom got confused and thought it was one of the cost cutting measures.
What’s really funny is that no, on the conference call, I asked if that was planned, and Lindblom got confused and thought it was one of the cost cutting measures.

]]> By: Zed http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72847 Zed Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:20:22 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72847 UTA also received a lot of money to get the first light rail line open as part of the infrastructure built for the Olympics. They also seem to be extraordinarily good at getting grants from the Feds. In Salt Lake itself, the UTA collects a sales tax of 0.69%, it's in the outlying counties that the tax is lower. Utah also has an income tax, so it wouldn't surprise me if transit was also funded with income tax funds.
UTA also received a lot of money to get the first light rail line open as part of the infrastructure built for the Olympics. They also seem to be extraordinarily good at getting grants from the Feds.

In Salt Lake itself, the UTA collects a sales tax of 0.69%, it’s in the outlying counties that the tax is lower. Utah also has an income tax, so it wouldn’t surprise me if transit was also funded with income tax funds.

]]> By: Zef Wagner http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72823 Zef Wagner Fri, 09 Oct 2009 19:18:36 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72823 One interesting item in the Seattle Times article is that Sound Transit is considering extending the south line past the airport ahead of schedule. Apparently they have done most of the planning for that part already and if they build it sooner they can benefit from lower bids. Sounds pretty smart to me.
One interesting item in the Seattle Times article is that Sound Transit is considering extending the south line past the airport ahead of schedule. Apparently they have done most of the planning for that part already and if they build it sooner they can benefit from lower bids. Sounds pretty smart to me.

]]> By: Kenneth Parker http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72822 Kenneth Parker Fri, 09 Oct 2009 19:15:21 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72822 Land prices are alot cheaper in Salt Lake. It's not like ST can buy right of way at Utah prices.
Land prices are alot cheaper in Salt Lake. It’s not like ST can buy right of way at Utah prices.

]]> By: Lloyd http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72800 Lloyd Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:28:49 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72800 Diesel prices have only subsided temproarily - look for increase to US$5/gallon in the next couple of years, and US$10/gallon or more by 2020.
Diesel prices have only subsided temproarily – look for increase to US$5/gallon in the next couple of years, and US$10/gallon or more by 2020.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72786 Ben Schiendelman Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:19:44 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72786 We're not building now. Most of the ST2 projects don't even go to bid until 2015, which is long after this recession is projected to end. So where we're expecting to be saving for some of these projects, we won't be able to, and when the projects finally go to bid, the project costs will be high again.
We’re not building now. Most of the ST2 projects don’t even go to bid until 2015, which is long after this recession is projected to end. So where we’re expecting to be saving for some of these projects, we won’t be able to, and when the projects finally go to bid, the project costs will be high again.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72784 Ben Schiendelman Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:17:57 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72784 UTA serves a lot fewer people with a lot less service. They also receive state money, which we don't, and they build at grade (without any sort of separation, largely) and almost exclusively in existing right of way. We're paying more tax in Washington (really just in the RTA), but we're getting a lot more too.
UTA serves a lot fewer people with a lot less service. They also receive state money, which we don’t, and they build at grade (without any sort of separation, largely) and almost exclusively in existing right of way.

We’re paying more tax in Washington (really just in the RTA), but we’re getting a lot more too.

]]> By: Ed R. http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72776 Ed R. Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:01:24 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72776 One commenter claims that "ST and Metro impose a staggeringly high sales tax rate of 1.8% for bus and train service" and that Portland's TriMet makes do with far less tax revenue. I thought that the ST rate was 0.9%? Does Metro add another 0.9% on top of that? Either way, that's still a lot higher than, for example, Utah Transit Authority's sales tax rate of 0.3%, soon to increase to 0.55% to build three new rail lines, on top of continuing to pay for the existing rail lines and the buses. Utah's sales tax is of course collected from a smaller population to boot (although UTA didn't have to bore any tunnels). What's more, UTA increased fares last year when diesel went up, and then reduced fares again when diesel went down, while Metro seems to expect to be able to keep its fare increase even after the spike in fuel prices subsided. Is it just lies and statistics, or are we paying more tax in Washington and getting less rail than our neighbors are paying and getting?
One commenter claims that “ST and Metro impose a staggeringly high sales tax rate of 1.8% for bus and train service” and that Portland’s TriMet makes do with far less tax revenue.

I thought that the ST rate was 0.9%? Does Metro add another 0.9% on top of that?

Either way, that’s still a lot higher than, for example, Utah Transit Authority’s sales tax rate of 0.3%, soon to increase to 0.55% to build three new rail lines, on top of continuing to pay for the existing rail lines and the buses. Utah’s sales tax is of course collected from a smaller population to boot (although UTA didn’t have to bore any tunnels).

What’s more, UTA increased fares last year when diesel went up, and then reduced fares again when diesel went down, while Metro seems to expect to be able to keep its fare increase even after the spike in fuel prices subsided.

Is it just lies and statistics, or are we paying more tax in Washington and getting less rail than our neighbors are paying and getting?

]]> By: justinf http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72775 justinf Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:00:04 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72775 while putting a significant dent in revenues, shouldn't the recession also lower the cost of the projects? materials and labor should both be cheaper now than when original cost estimates were made.
while putting a significant dent in revenues, shouldn’t the recession also lower the cost of the projects? materials and labor should both be cheaper now than when original cost estimates were made.

]]> By: Anonymous http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72720 Anonymous Fri, 09 Oct 2009 05:25:57 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72720 All the anti-rail haters are out again on the Seattle Times comments. I really hope that Sound Transit can get light rail done on time or even early.
All the anti-rail haters are out again on the Seattle Times comments. I really hope that Sound Transit can get light rail done on time or even early.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72690 Ben Schiendelman Fri, 09 Oct 2009 01:44:28 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72690 It's not a 20% service cut.
It’s not a 20% service cut.

]]> By: joshuadf http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/08/the-bomb-shelter-called-sound-transit-2/#comment-72684 joshuadf Fri, 09 Oct 2009 01:03:50 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8452#comment-72684 I'm not sure if the loss of padding is "pretty good", though it's not bad.
I’m not sure if the loss of padding is “pretty good”, though it’s not bad.

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