Comments on: 2+1 > 2+2 http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/ Transit in the Greater Seattle Area Thu, 18 Mar 2010 02:50:59 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Chris Stefan http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-74558 Chris Stefan Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:44:42 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-74558 We're only talking 5 seats. Taking those 5 seats out increases the standing capacity by more than 5 people. We’re only talking 5 seats. Taking those 5 seats out increases the standing capacity by more than 5 people.

]]> By: Mike http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-74549 Mike Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:24:31 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-74549 But the city buses I take are already jam packed. So it *will be* a huge difference because even more people will be standing. We don't need more standing space on already uncomfortable, crowded buses. But the city buses I take are already jam packed. So it *will be* a huge difference because even more people will be standing. We don’t need more standing space on already uncomfortable, crowded buses.

]]> By: brandonhn http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-74151 brandonhn Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:04:47 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-74151 I think that we can get more space if we use a long bench instead of using a single seat facing to the bus driver. Besides, we can have at least 7 seats with a long bench, instead of 5 single seats. I think that we can get more space if we use a long bench instead of using a single seat facing to the bus driver. Besides, we can have at least 7 seats with a long bench, instead of 5 single seats.

]]> By: eddiew http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-74089 eddiew Sat, 17 Oct 2009 03:03:34 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-74089 Vancouver had the one plus two seating on the last generation of electric trolleybuses as well, so that example has been available for several decades. The concept has been discussed for many years. Seats have been very important at Metro. That may have helped lead to the Gillig trolleys being high floor instead of low floor. Maybe speed of service is gaining in importance. Vancouver had the one plus two seating on the last generation of electric trolleybuses as well, so that example has been available for several decades. The concept has been discussed for many years. Seats have been very important at Metro. That may have helped lead to the Gillig trolleys being high floor instead of low floor. Maybe speed of service is gaining in importance.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-74030 Ben Schiendelman Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:31:08 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-74030 I agree with all those points. Just the existence of the driver makes people less likely to evade, even if the driver doesn't actually do anything. Same reason there's less violent crime when there are people around... I agree with all those points.

Just the existence of the driver makes people less likely to evade, even if the driver doesn’t actually do anything. Same reason there’s less violent crime when there are people around…

]]> By: Kevin Futhey http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-74009 Kevin Futhey Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:07:12 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-74009 Oh boy is right! There is a box for money payment next to the driver, but over 95% of passengers (based on my observation) use smart cards attached primarily to their cellphones. Bus far is based on distance traveled. You badge in coming in the front door and you badge out when exiting the back door. Passengers can only come in the front and out the back... I think the minimum bus fare was W500 (less than 50 cents) and then increases by W100 at some interval that I never did figure out... Oh boy is right! There is a box for money payment next to the driver, but over 95% of passengers (based on my observation) use smart cards attached primarily to their cellphones.

Bus far is based on distance traveled. You badge in coming in the front door and you badge out when exiting the back door. Passengers can only come in the front and out the back…

I think the minimum bus fare was W500 (less than 50 cents) and then increases by W100 at some interval that I never did figure out…

]]> By: Chris Stefan http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73991 Chris Stefan Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:36:51 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73991 It isn't a huge difference in the number of seats but adds a lot of standing space. It isn’t a huge difference in the number of seats but adds a lot of standing space.

]]> By: Adam B. Parast http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73973 Adam B. Parast Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:44:43 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73973 Yeah very good point. That is why doing trials like this are so important. Yeah very good point. That is why doing trials like this are so important.

]]> By: archie http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73966 archie Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:49:38 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73966 That's an interesting and important point that I hope doesn't get overlooked. That’s an interesting and important point that I hope doesn’t get overlooked.

]]> By: Oran Viriyincy http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73954 Oran Viriyincy Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:34:29 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73954 I took several interior photos of 6000 (the RapidRide prototype) during APTA. The general layout is similar to a typical 6800 series bus (the new 60-ft hybrids). The big difference is the middle door. There are 2 front-facing single seats across from the middle door instead of the double seats. They are in a <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/viriyincy/sets/72157605890044530/" rel="nofollow">Flickr photoset</a>. I took several interior photos of 6000 (the RapidRide prototype) during APTA. The general layout is similar to a typical 6800 series bus (the new 60-ft hybrids). The big difference is the middle door. There are 2 front-facing single seats across from the middle door instead of the double seats.

They are in a Flickr photoset.

]]> By: mike http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73952 mike Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:13:19 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73952 definitely. the city we lived in had about half as many seats as most metro buses, and crammed nearly 3x as many people. during rush hour, they also folded up all the benches to fit even more people (or baggage, buggies, etc) metro is not very efficient w/ movement of people (or travel times) and has been a big annoyance for my wife and i. definitely.

the city we lived in had about half as many seats as most metro buses, and crammed nearly 3x as many people.

during rush hour, they also folded up all the benches to fit even more people (or baggage, buggies, etc)

metro is not very efficient w/ movement of people (or travel times) and has been a big annoyance for my wife and i.

]]> By: Alex http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73951 Alex Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:12:36 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73951 I rode this bus several weeks ago. Caught me completely off guard. Although I've only been on that one trip, I'm not a fan of the design. There is one really annoying problem for those of us who are tall enough (I'm 6'0"). The left-side overhead handrail is at head-height for anyone who is ~5'10" or taller (a fairly sizeable percentage of the population). You can't stand in the area where the seats used to be without hitting your head. The handrail is the same height as on every other bus, but with the 2x2 seating, you never stand right under it (I've managed to hit it anyways, of course). On this particular trip, the standees were mostly men who were too tall to comfortably stand under the handrail. Most of the extra space was wasted and the bus was consequently more crowded than usual. I rode this bus several weeks ago. Caught me completely off guard. Although I’ve only been on that one trip, I’m not a fan of the design.

There is one really annoying problem for those of us who are tall enough (I’m 6′0″). The left-side overhead handrail is at head-height for anyone who is ~5′10″ or taller (a fairly sizeable percentage of the population). You can’t stand in the area where the seats used to be without hitting your head. The handrail is the same height as on every other bus, but with the 2×2 seating, you never stand right under it (I’ve managed to hit it anyways, of course).

On this particular trip, the standees were mostly men who were too tall to comfortably stand under the handrail. Most of the extra space was wasted and the bus was consequently more crowded than usual.

]]> By: EvergreenRailfan http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73948 EvergreenRailfan Fri, 16 Oct 2009 05:51:53 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73948 That's what I expected, especially since I have also noticed 798 parked there as well. Transporting the old PCF-Brill by flatbed or tow truck should be an extra careful move, 798 is priceless. Another bus I have seen riding LINK past Metro South is the Rapid Ride Prototype. I wonder if that one has the seating layout of a normal 2600 or 6800, but with the third door, or does it have fewer seats? That’s what I expected, especially since I have also noticed 798 parked there as well. Transporting the old PCF-Brill by flatbed or tow truck should be an extra careful move, 798 is priceless.

Another bus I have seen riding LINK past Metro South is the Rapid Ride Prototype. I wonder if that one has the seating layout of a normal 2600 or 6800, but with the third door, or does it have fewer seats?

]]> By: Mike B http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73929 Mike B Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:18:16 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73929 Because we can wait for a better idea! Because we can wait for a better idea!

]]> By: Jeff Welch http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73925 Jeff Welch Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:14:09 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73925 Yep. They're called "vandals". Yep. They’re called “vandals”.

]]> By: Jeff Welch http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73924 Jeff Welch Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:11:58 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73924 Sure would eliminate the problem of all those pesky folks with mobility problems who can't stand in a moving vehicle. Now if it just weren't for that annoying Americans with Disabilities Act and the general idea that everyone deserves access to public transportation, we could move on that idea of yours. Sure would eliminate the problem of all those pesky folks with mobility problems who can’t stand in a moving vehicle. Now if it just weren’t for that annoying Americans with Disabilities Act and the general idea that everyone deserves access to public transportation, we could move on that idea of yours.

]]> By: Jeff Welch http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73922 Jeff Welch Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:10:46 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73922 No trolleys run out of South Base. No wires down there either. If 4186 was there - it was transported via flatbed. No trolleys run out of South Base. No wires down there either. If 4186 was there – it was transported via flatbed.

]]> By: Jeff Welch http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73921 Jeff Welch Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:09:37 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73921 It will probably increase nonpayment issues, as there will be no conventional farebox at the back door, even though folks without Orca passes will be boarding there. Also no way to effectively communicate with or monitor passengers whose passes are expired, or whose e-purse is empty - though God forbid it would ever be acknowledged that drivers are actually supposed to be monitoring the fares people pay. It will probably increase nonpayment issues, as there will be no conventional farebox at the back door, even though folks without Orca passes will be boarding there. Also no way to effectively communicate with or monitor passengers whose passes are expired, or whose e-purse is empty – though God forbid it would ever be acknowledged that drivers are actually supposed to be monitoring the fares people pay.

]]> By: Kaleci http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73920 Kaleci Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:07:18 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73920 In Istanbul, I saw some articulated buses with all the seats removed from behind the back door (it wasn't a low-floor) They had straps and a leaning rail. In Istanbul, I saw some articulated buses with all the seats removed from behind the back door (it wasn’t a low-floor) They had straps and a leaning rail.

]]> By: Matt http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/15/2-plus-1/#comment-73914 Matt Fri, 16 Oct 2009 02:42:35 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=8506#comment-73914 Are there people who remove seats from buses for free? Are there people who remove seats from buses for free?

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