Comments on: Passenger Rail Roundup (I): North of Downtown

By: Bruce

Bruce — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:05:56 +0000

While the report may characterize long-distance trains as money losers, reality may be different. How costs are apportioned can radically affect what is perceived to be the profit or loss of these trains.

How about looking at revenue versus operating costs?

By: Lloyd

Lloyd — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:20:25 +0000

If we count Camano Island (with its growing number of retirees) and if we feel that driving SOVs is to be encouraged, then why not stop at Stanwood? There is more than enough slack in the Cascades’ schedules for a stop here and eventually one in Blaine for exactly the same reasons.

By: Brian Bundridge

Brian Bundridge — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:17:05 +0000

It isn’t just about Stanwood but also its surrounding communities that will use this station.

Stanwood, Camano Island, Conway, etc all will utilize this station instead of driving to Everett or Mt. Vernon. Population for Stanwood is actually just above 6,000 http://www.city-data.com/city/Stanwood-Washington.html

According to the Camano Island Fire Department – roughly 18,000 people are in this area.

By: Steve

Steve — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:54:28 +0000

Too bad about the rail; Anandakos is right that twice-daily Seattle-Pasco service makes a lot of sense from a tourism and political perspective.

Are there other trainsets that can handle jointed rail better?

By: Dave F

Dave F — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:37:25 +0000

In Stanwood? The town has 4,000 people! It shouldn’t even have an Amtrak stop!

By: aw

aw — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:58:42 +0000

“What more could anyone ask for!”

Attended station with ticket counter, restaurant, newsstand and rental car counter?

Less grandiously, Quik-Trak machine?

By: Mike Skehan

Mike Skehan — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:06:17 +0000

Just stopped by the New Stanwood station yesterday to check it out. Very nice. Bare bones, but a nice long Sounder style platform, a couple of big metalic canopies, ADA, bus queue, and new street. The track and passing siding are all new concrete ties.
What more could anyone ask for!

By: Jim Cusick

Jim Cusick — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:01:36 +0000

The 30year figure was based on the physical lifespan of the road surface before it needed rebuilding.

Of course, the shorter the lifespan, the worse it looks!

By the way, has anyone played with the numbers I posted in the other thread?

http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/26/the-highway-vs-fixed-transit-debate/#comments

I was just wondering what others come up with.

Jim

By: Andy

Andy — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:42:59 +0000

I thought this post is about an additional Sounder station “north of downtown” near Broad Street… :-p

By: Lloyd

Lloyd — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 01:20:24 +0000

Those long distance trains would be carrying vastly greater numbers of passengers if there were connectively timed short distance feeder trains connecting to/from them. As an example, imagine the following “feeder” trains connecting to/from a daily Sunset (trains #1 and #2): Grand Canyon Nat’l Park and Phoenix; Denver, Colo Spgs, Pueblo and Albuquerque at El Paso; Dallas, Ft Worth, Midland-Odessa at El Paso; Laredo at San Antonio; Ft Worth, Dallas at Houston. Multiply these possibilities times the dozen or so long distance trains currently operating, add a second train in each direction so that cities and towns traversed in the night have daytime service too, and you would see a huge increase in Amtrak revenue and passenger count.

By: Bernie

Bernie — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:42:36 +0000

The off road diesel and on road diesel are dyed a different color. State Patrol can stop people and do spot checks (happens a lot down around Shelton, logging country). Marine fuels pay a hefty tax that goes into maintaining “the marine highway”. There’s different parts of the federal excise taxes on diesel so railroads likely pay some but not the portion that goes to the highway fund. I wonder if the railroads have to kick in State sales tax proportional to the amount of fuel used in the State? I know rental companies have to spread around licenses for cars and trucks based on how much presence they have in different states.

By: Andy Walker

Andy Walker — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:06:40 +0000

Since taxes are different for ‘on-road’ vs. ‘off-road’ diesel (and I think for gasoline), I would assume that the all railroad and marine users would use off-road fuel, and not that tax collected (but still have other (state and?) federal taxes paid).

By: aw

aw — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:51:30 +0000

One thing I’ve wondered about amendment 18; do the freight railroads pay fuel taxes? And if so, do those taxes get diverted to paying for roads? How about marine vessels?

By: Mickymse

Mickymse — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:44:33 +0000

I wonder if one way to take on Amendment 18′s restriction of gas tax for roads would be to lobby to amend it to include heavy rail.

Yeah, I would love to just have it open for transit or roads, but that’s going to be quite a fight for us.

But could we make the argument to allow gas tax monies to be spent on upgrading rails and re-establishing passenger service around the State?

By: Brian Bundridge

Brian Bundridge — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:35:12 +0000

As of 5 weeks ago, that section is also jointed rail.

I’m frankly surprised there are so many lines that are still jointed rail. The line from TR Jct to Freighthouse Square is still jointed rail, though it is in fair better condition that Stampede is.

By: Anandakos

Anandakos — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:27:23 +0000

Thanks for the info about the jointed rail; I’m surprised at that. The article in Trains about the re-opening made it sound like they had done a fairly complete make-over between Ellensburg and the junction east of Auburn where the short-line ownership started. Is Yakima to Tri-Cities welded rail? I would expect that it may be, because I believe they kept the ownership there and do a pretty good business there.

By: Zach Shaner

Zach Shaner — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:03:30 +0000

The Renfe AVE trains (Talgo-made) are beyond fantastic. I’ve never had a better travel experience. The nonstop Madrid-Malaga train I was on traveled 335 miles in 2 hours and 20 minutes. And the queue to buy tickets at Madrid Atocha station for the Barcelona trains was exceptionally long. It’s an incredibly popular service.

By: Zach Shaner

Zach Shaner — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:31:59 +0000

Yeah, I agree with the Yglesias article as well. However, even if SubsidyScope/Pew inflated the numbers by including total depreciation in order to carry out a hit job on Amtrak, I still think we should have the conversation about Amtrak disinvesting from certain long-distance routes in order to invest more heavily in corridor service.

For instance, as much as I love riding over the Pecos River bridge in Texas or through the Moffat Tunnel in Colorado, I feel forced to admit that the Sunset Limited and California Zephyr are indulgent and wasteful. I feel that Amtrak could do wonders for both service quality and public relations (and thus ridership) through such a reinvestment. How about Fort Collins-Boulder-Denver-Colorado Springs? Phoenix-Tucson? Seattle-Tri-Cities? Cleveland-Columbus-Cincy? Etc…Keep the lines short and run them frequently.

By: Brian Bundridge

Brian Bundridge — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:18:13 +0000

Mike,

This sounds exactly like what happened when the Spain AVE opened between Madrid and Barcelona and the TGV Est route. Flights dropped almost 60% !

By: Brian Bundridge

Brian Bundridge — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:15:09 +0000

Anandakos,

The only issue is that 80% of Stampede is still jointed rail, which is very uncomfortable on the Talgo, even at speed. Much worse at lower speeds.

BN did a lot of upgrades to welded rail in curves but most of the straights are still all jointed/bolted rail. BNSF has done the majority of the Yakima Canyon to concrete ties and welded rail.

The other issue is that the entire line is still considered “dark terrority” with CTC siding “islands”

According to the North Coast Hiawatha study, it would be around $70 million to upgrade the line to a full CTC system. It did not state how much it would be to upgrade the line to continuous welded rail.