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	<title>Comments on: Kitsap Transit to Replace Paper Transfers with ORCA</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-78556</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-78556</guid>
		<description>Mickymse,

&lt;b&gt;Why can’t we have a new rule that encourages drivers to remind riders that passes need to be swiped?&lt;/b&gt;

Probably because Metro has taken this &quot;no fare disputes&quot; policy to a paradoxical extreme where any and all mention of fares or payment to customers is considered a &quot;fare dispute&quot; (and therefore the driver is at fault) any time a customer calls or e-mails to complain that a driver inappropriately confronted them about a fare.

I&#039;m with you - the &quot;flash pass&quot; thing is largely if not entirely an outgrowth of sheer laziness on the part of passengers (drivers are still supposed to hit the &quot;8&quot; key when shown a pass that isn&#039;t swiped).

I think that there&#039;s a lot going on here - from genuine concern about putting drivers in a position where conflict might occur, to wanting to make riding the bus as convenient as possible to continue to encourage ridership.  At the same time, less and less is being asked of passengers, and one would think that appropriate fare payment might be the ONE thing that folks can agree should definitely be happening.

A conversion to an all ORCA type payment system might go a ways towards changing rider culture, but I doubt it.  In the old days, if you didn&#039;t pay, you didn&#039;t ride, and drivers made change.  Go figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Mickymse,</p>
<p><b>Why can’t we have a new rule that encourages drivers to remind riders that passes need to be swiped?</b></p>
<p>Probably because Metro has taken this &#8220;no fare disputes&#8221; policy to a paradoxical extreme where any and all mention of fares or payment to customers is considered a &#8220;fare dispute&#8221; (and therefore the driver is at fault) any time a customer calls or e-mails to complain that a driver inappropriately confronted them about a fare.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m with you &#8211; the &#8220;flash pass&#8221; thing is largely if not entirely an outgrowth of sheer laziness on the part of passengers (drivers are still supposed to hit the &#8220;8&#8243; key when shown a pass that isn&#8217;t swiped).</p>
<p>I think that there&#8217;s a lot going on here &#8211; from genuine concern about putting drivers in a position where conflict might occur, to wanting to make riding the bus as convenient as possible to continue to encourage ridership.  At the same time, less and less is being asked of passengers, and one would think that appropriate fare payment might be the ONE thing that folks can agree should definitely be happening.</p>
<p>A conversion to an all ORCA type payment system might go a ways towards changing rider culture, but I doubt it.  In the old days, if you didn&#8217;t pay, you didn&#8217;t ride, and drivers made change.  Go figure.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mickymse</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-78468</link>
		<dc:creator>Mickymse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-78468</guid>
		<description>Well, there&#039;s a BIG part of the problem right there, Jeff...

Why can&#039;t we have a new rule that encourages drivers to remind riders that passes need to be swiped? I&#039;ve never understood why it&#039;s okay to &quot;flash&quot; something at the driver.

The only good exception I have seen to this is when the bus is overcrowded and the driver lets riders off through the back doors. Some will walk to the front to &quot;flash&quot; the driver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Well, there&#8217;s a BIG part of the problem right there, Jeff&#8230;</p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t we have a new rule that encourages drivers to remind riders that passes need to be swiped? I&#8217;ve never understood why it&#8217;s okay to &#8220;flash&#8221; something at the driver.</p>
<p>The only good exception I have seen to this is when the bus is overcrowded and the driver lets riders off through the back doors. Some will walk to the front to &#8220;flash&#8221; the driver.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike F</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-78423</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-78423</guid>
		<description>As Monday (November 2) was Kitsap Transit&#039;s first day without paper transfers, I hit as many “transfer points” as I could (that&#039;s where I expected any problems to be) while running several errands in Bremerton. From my vantage point, things couldn&#039;t have gone any smoother. Every driver was cool, calm, and in control – none of the stress over the transition I had seen even a couple of weeks ago. Part of the reason may be that, collectively, their attitude towards the ORCA project is a sea change from last Spring. For whatever reason, most of the drivers seem to have finally bought into ORCA, and have buckled down and are making it work.

The vast majority of riders on the routes I was on were using paper passes or ORCA cards (and every single person used their cards correctly!). Boarding and deboarding was quick and problem-free for the first time in my memory; it was like watching well-directed scenes in a film. I saw only five parties pay cash. Two folks asked for transfers, and I don&#039;t know what the drivers said, but both riders nodded and sat down. One couple – &lt;em&gt;very&lt;/em&gt; regular riders, so they had no excuse – were extremely upset when told they couldn&#039;t have a transfer, but sat down and didn&#039;t argue with the driver. A couple of ORCA cards didn&#039;t work on one route, and the driver waved the riders on. There were, amazingly, none of the fare scofflaws that are frequently seen on Central and South county routes.

I observed only two minor incidents. A clueless gansta-wannabe (he didn&#039;t even know what bus he was supposed to be on) got &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; upset when the driver wouldn&#039;t give him a transfer, turned on his tough-boy act, and started ranting at the totally unimpressed driver. I didn&#039;t see how it ended, but considering that the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.globeticket.com/InventoryD.asp?loc=EGV&amp;item_no=600091&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;transfer cutters&lt;/a&gt; appeared to have been removed over the weekend (two individual transfer cutters per bus had been the norm), and no transfers were visible, I suspect the driver won the round. Finally, to mar the end of a pleasant, full-moon travel day, on my last trip the driver wasn&#039;t in her seat when passengers boarded at a transfer point in the middle of nowhere, so she made everybody pull out their pass or ORCA card and show her – &lt;em&gt;after&lt;/em&gt; everyone was seated and had put away their passes and cards. She had no reason to pull such an annoying and unnecessary stunt, so hopefully somebody will have a chat with her, soon, about the new system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
As Monday (November 2) was Kitsap Transit&#8217;s first day without paper transfers, I hit as many “transfer points” as I could (that&#8217;s where I expected any problems to be) while running several errands in Bremerton. From my vantage point, things couldn&#8217;t have gone any smoother. Every driver was cool, calm, and in control – none of the stress over the transition I had seen even a couple of weeks ago. Part of the reason may be that, collectively, their attitude towards the ORCA project is a sea change from last Spring. For whatever reason, most of the drivers seem to have finally bought into ORCA, and have buckled down and are making it work.</p>
<p>The vast majority of riders on the routes I was on were using paper passes or ORCA cards (and every single person used their cards correctly!). Boarding and deboarding was quick and problem-free for the first time in my memory; it was like watching well-directed scenes in a film. I saw only five parties pay cash. Two folks asked for transfers, and I don&#8217;t know what the drivers said, but both riders nodded and sat down. One couple – <em>very</em> regular riders, so they had no excuse – were extremely upset when told they couldn&#8217;t have a transfer, but sat down and didn&#8217;t argue with the driver. A couple of ORCA cards didn&#8217;t work on one route, and the driver waved the riders on. There were, amazingly, none of the fare scofflaws that are frequently seen on Central and South county routes.</p>
<p>I observed only two minor incidents. A clueless gansta-wannabe (he didn&#8217;t even know what bus he was supposed to be on) got <em>really</em> upset when the driver wouldn&#8217;t give him a transfer, turned on his tough-boy act, and started ranting at the totally unimpressed driver. I didn&#8217;t see how it ended, but considering that the <a href="http://www.globeticket.com/InventoryD.asp?loc=EGV&amp;item_no=600091" rel="nofollow">transfer cutters</a> appeared to have been removed over the weekend (two individual transfer cutters per bus had been the norm), and no transfers were visible, I suspect the driver won the round. Finally, to mar the end of a pleasant, full-moon travel day, on my last trip the driver wasn&#8217;t in her seat when passengers boarded at a transfer point in the middle of nowhere, so she made everybody pull out their pass or ORCA card and show her – <em>after</em> everyone was seated and had put away their passes and cards. She had no reason to pull such an annoying and unnecessary stunt, so hopefully somebody will have a chat with her, soon, about the new system.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-78192</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-78192</guid>
		<description>Not following you, Matt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Not following you, Matt.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-78191</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-78191</guid>
		<description>Matt,

Actually my job title is &quot;Operator&quot;.  Our manual (called &quot;the book&quot;) contains over 5 pages of material having to do with the collection of fares, recognition of passes, etc.  That thingy to my right is called a &quot;fare box&quot; and requires logging in, setting up, and entry for all passengers who choose to show rather than swipe their card, are a juvenile or senior, or pay in addition to having a reduced fare or off-peak card.

That other thingy to my right is called &quot;Orca&quot;, and its sole purpose is the collection of fares from boarding passengers.  We Operators receive several hours of training not only on collecting cash and pass based fars, but on operation of the Orca system to collect individual and multiple fares.

So fare collection IS a responsibility of bus Operators - always has been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Matt,</p>
<p>Actually my job title is &#8220;Operator&#8221;.  Our manual (called &#8220;the book&#8221;) contains over 5 pages of material having to do with the collection of fares, recognition of passes, etc.  That thingy to my right is called a &#8220;fare box&#8221; and requires logging in, setting up, and entry for all passengers who choose to show rather than swipe their card, are a juvenile or senior, or pay in addition to having a reduced fare or off-peak card.</p>
<p>That other thingy to my right is called &#8220;Orca&#8221;, and its sole purpose is the collection of fares from boarding passengers.  We Operators receive several hours of training not only on collecting cash and pass based fars, but on operation of the Orca system to collect individual and multiple fares.</p>
<p>So fare collection IS a responsibility of bus Operators &#8211; always has been.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: alexjonlin</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-78137</link>
		<dc:creator>alexjonlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-78137</guid>
		<description>California Line should be alright.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
California Line should be alright.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-78060</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-78060</guid>
		<description>There are cheating bums &lt;i&gt;at&lt;/i&gt; the Atlantic Base?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
There are cheating bums <i>at</i> the Atlantic Base?!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-78059</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-78059</guid>
		<description>Your job? Ha, they don&#039;t realize your job is called bus &lt;i&gt;driver&lt;/i&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Your job? Ha, they don&#8217;t realize your job is called bus <i>driver</i>?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-78058</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-78058</guid>
		<description>Good luck with the three cable car rides – waiting in line for those will take your whole weekend. I pity the people whose ancestors used to actually commute using those things. They sure are cool though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Good luck with the three cable car rides – waiting in line for those will take your whole weekend. I pity the people whose ancestors used to actually commute using those things. They sure are cool though.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-78056</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-78056</guid>
		<description>Even by professionals? Isn&#039;t someone trying to ride the bus for free off someone else&#039;s ORCA account about as close to professional as one can get with this sort of thing? Or is there a way to make a living off ORCA hacking? How many professional ORCA hackers are there, especially if they&#039;re all failing at their job?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Even by professionals? Isn&#8217;t someone trying to ride the bus for free off someone else&#8217;s ORCA account about as close to professional as one can get with this sort of thing? Or is there a way to make a living off ORCA hacking? How many professional ORCA hackers are there, especially if they&#8217;re all failing at their job?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-78048</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-78048</guid>
		<description>At any rate - if these passes stick around, could be that &quot;tourist solution&quot;.  That would of course mean actually publicizing it, and there&#039;d be nothing stopping locals from using it.

Or perhaps it could be re-branded as a 1-day Orca card that gets used as a swipe or flash pass rather than a tap pass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
At any rate &#8211; if these passes stick around, could be that &#8220;tourist solution&#8221;.  That would of course mean actually publicizing it, and there&#8217;d be nothing stopping locals from using it.</p>
<p>Or perhaps it could be re-branded as a 1-day Orca card that gets used as a swipe or flash pass rather than a tap pass.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-77956</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-77956</guid>
		<description>I never knew that!

I think they don&#039;t call it a Day Pass because they don&#039;t want people using it as one = lost revenue. It&#039;s the best deal in town. Get a $2.50 day pass for $5 and ride Link, 2-zone ST Express, 2-zone Metro peak as much you like.

No idea if those will still work come New Year 2010. I didn&#039;t mention in the post that Metro fares are increasing by 25¢ on Jan 1, 2010.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I never knew that!</p>
<p>I think they don&#8217;t call it a Day Pass because they don&#8217;t want people using it as one = lost revenue. It&#8217;s the best deal in town. Get a $2.50 day pass for $5 and ride Link, 2-zone ST Express, 2-zone Metro peak as much you like.</p>
<p>No idea if those will still work come New Year 2010. I didn&#8217;t mention in the post that Metro fares are increasing by 25¢ on Jan 1, 2010.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-77952</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-77952</guid>
		<description>By the way - those passes scan as valid on bus fare boxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
By the way &#8211; those passes scan as valid on bus fare boxes.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-77951</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-77951</guid>
		<description>Yeah - and hence my confusion.  The pass pictured in that photo says &quot;Puget Pass&quot; right on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Yeah &#8211; and hence my confusion.  The pass pictured in that photo says &#8220;Puget Pass&#8221; right on it.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-77948</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-77948</guid>
		<description>Drivers have been instructed to honor non-functioning, and even &quot;insufficient funds&quot; reading ORCA cards as &quot;flash-passes&quot; (show the driver) for that trip.  Since there are known inefficiencies in the system - like new cards not reading as activated for 24-48 hours, newly loaded E-purse balances not updating for the same time period, etc., it&#039;s unreasonable to ask someone who has already paid for the convenience of using an ORCA card to pay cash as well because system bugs can&#039;t confirm the validity of their card.

If anyone encounters a driver not honoring their ORCA card or asking them to pay cash due to an &quot;insufficient funds&quot; or other non-read error, they should contact Metro customer service and/or use the online form.

Every single customer comment - and believe me, some of them are out there and a real pain and humiliation for drivers to have to deal with - are addressed one on one with the driver if they can be identified.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Drivers have been instructed to honor non-functioning, and even &#8220;insufficient funds&#8221; reading ORCA cards as &#8220;flash-passes&#8221; (show the driver) for that trip.  Since there are known inefficiencies in the system &#8211; like new cards not reading as activated for 24-48 hours, newly loaded E-purse balances not updating for the same time period, etc., it&#8217;s unreasonable to ask someone who has already paid for the convenience of using an ORCA card to pay cash as well because system bugs can&#8217;t confirm the validity of their card.</p>
<p>If anyone encounters a driver not honoring their ORCA card or asking them to pay cash due to an &#8220;insufficient funds&#8221; or other non-read error, they should contact Metro customer service and/or use the online form.</p>
<p>Every single customer comment &#8211; and believe me, some of them are out there and a real pain and humiliation for drivers to have to deal with &#8211; are addressed one on one with the driver if they can be identified.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-77945</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-77945</guid>
		<description>Some folks also over-pay, and I&#039;m not sure what the metrics are on that one.  Quite often folks will pay $2.00 for an off-peak fare, simply because sliding two dollar bills in is easier than one bill plus change or all change.

I&#039;m never really sure what to do with the folks who ask permission to ride for free.  Riding without paying is a crime - and I don&#039;t believe that I&#039;m empowered by the County to give anyone permission to commit a crime.  Usually I just tell them what the fare is, and that I can&#039;t prevent them from riding even if they can&#039;t or won&#039;t pay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Some folks also over-pay, and I&#8217;m not sure what the metrics are on that one.  Quite often folks will pay $2.00 for an off-peak fare, simply because sliding two dollar bills in is easier than one bill plus change or all change.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m never really sure what to do with the folks who ask permission to ride for free.  Riding without paying is a crime &#8211; and I don&#8217;t believe that I&#8217;m empowered by the County to give anyone permission to commit a crime.  Usually I just tell them what the fare is, and that I can&#8217;t prevent them from riding even if they can&#8217;t or won&#8217;t pay.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-77943</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-77943</guid>
		<description>Fare *enforcement* isn&#039;t a driver&#039;s job, but letting folks know what the correct fare is - and tracking non-payments - is part of a driver&#039;s job.  

Sometimes I&#039;ll wait to move on as someone digs for a pass or fare - but only because I don&#039;t want a person with their hands jammed in their pockets to fall when the bus starts moving.  Usually I&#039;ll tell folks to have a seat and bring their fare up when/if they find it, usually accompanied by a (sincere) &quot;Take your time&quot; from me.  

I&#039;ve heard tell of Pierc and CT drivers doing as you suggest - refusing to move the bus unless and until a passenger who is obviously bent on not paying &quot;ponies up&quot;, but my understanding is that those systems policies have a stronger expectation of fare collection enforcement as a part of driver duties.

One thing that I struggle with is this concept of &quot;fare dispute&quot;, particularly as a customer complaint issue.  What you describe - delaying a bus for the purpose of hard-lining someone trying to wiggle out of paying a fare - meets the definition and isn&#039;t acceptable.  Were I a customer on a bus so delayed, I&#039;d likely call customer service or use the online form to describe what I observed.  This won&#039;t necessarily result in a driver reprimand, but at a minimum would be logged as a &quot;service request&quot;, and the driver would have a discussion with a chief about it.

However, I don&#039;t believe that every interaction about fares (i.e. telling a customer that peak fare is $2.00 not $1.75; asking a customer if they have the current transfer rather than yesterdays, or one that is the right color or wrong letter; asking a customer to take their pass out of their wallet (some just flash the top quarter inch that pokes over the sleeve in their wallet - often bogus), etc. are &quot;fare disputes&quot;.  I&#039;ve also had customers complain to me when I&#039;ve to their view not said enough - or anything at all - to folks who have leapt off the bus without paying, or announced in advance that they had no intention of paying but would ride anyway.  Usually these comments are along the lines of &quot;Why don&#039;t you do your job!  I paid MY fare - why don&#039;t they have to!  Kick them off the bus!&quot;

At any rate - I think that some on-board enforcement sweeps, even random, infrequent (but well-publicized) operations would go a long way to discourage fare evasion, and support drivers and the passengers who responsibly pay their fares.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Fare *enforcement* isn&#8217;t a driver&#8217;s job, but letting folks know what the correct fare is &#8211; and tracking non-payments &#8211; is part of a driver&#8217;s job.  </p>
<p>Sometimes I&#8217;ll wait to move on as someone digs for a pass or fare &#8211; but only because I don&#8217;t want a person with their hands jammed in their pockets to fall when the bus starts moving.  Usually I&#8217;ll tell folks to have a seat and bring their fare up when/if they find it, usually accompanied by a (sincere) &#8220;Take your time&#8221; from me.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard tell of Pierc and CT drivers doing as you suggest &#8211; refusing to move the bus unless and until a passenger who is obviously bent on not paying &#8220;ponies up&#8221;, but my understanding is that those systems policies have a stronger expectation of fare collection enforcement as a part of driver duties.</p>
<p>One thing that I struggle with is this concept of &#8220;fare dispute&#8221;, particularly as a customer complaint issue.  What you describe &#8211; delaying a bus for the purpose of hard-lining someone trying to wiggle out of paying a fare &#8211; meets the definition and isn&#8217;t acceptable.  Were I a customer on a bus so delayed, I&#8217;d likely call customer service or use the online form to describe what I observed.  This won&#8217;t necessarily result in a driver reprimand, but at a minimum would be logged as a &#8220;service request&#8221;, and the driver would have a discussion with a chief about it.</p>
<p>However, I don&#8217;t believe that every interaction about fares (i.e. telling a customer that peak fare is $2.00 not $1.75; asking a customer if they have the current transfer rather than yesterdays, or one that is the right color or wrong letter; asking a customer to take their pass out of their wallet (some just flash the top quarter inch that pokes over the sleeve in their wallet &#8211; often bogus), etc. are &#8220;fare disputes&#8221;.  I&#8217;ve also had customers complain to me when I&#8217;ve to their view not said enough &#8211; or anything at all &#8211; to folks who have leapt off the bus without paying, or announced in advance that they had no intention of paying but would ride anyway.  Usually these comments are along the lines of &#8220;Why don&#8217;t you do your job!  I paid MY fare &#8211; why don&#8217;t they have to!  Kick them off the bus!&#8221;</p>
<p>At any rate &#8211; I think that some on-board enforcement sweeps, even random, infrequent (but well-publicized) operations would go a long way to discourage fare evasion, and support drivers and the passengers who responsibly pay their fares.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-77942</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-77942</guid>
		<description>You mean the Sounder and Link round trip tickets?

Here&#039;s a photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/40563526@N04/3769837344/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
You mean the Sounder and Link round trip tickets?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a photo <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/40563526@N04/3769837344/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/40563526@N04/3769837344/</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-77940</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-77940</guid>
		<description>My bad - what&#039;s the one that folks can buy and use like a day pass system-wide?  I see them all the time but the name escapes me.  They&#039;re like the hard plastic cards with a magnetic stripe, but made of flimsy paper rather than plastic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
My bad &#8211; what&#8217;s the one that folks can buy and use like a day pass system-wide?  I see them all the time but the name escapes me.  They&#8217;re like the hard plastic cards with a magnetic stripe, but made of flimsy paper rather than plastic.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/kitsap-transit-to-replace-paper-transfers-with-orca-cards/#comment-77840</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 19:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9246#comment-77840</guid>
		<description>Getting back on the ORCA subject, for it to be successful, you need to install TVMs at every major transit center and P&amp;R lot to sell and reload these cards, plus a better way of updating the buses enroute, instead of nightly at the base. Not to mention a wider full-service retailer network, plus 24-7 phone support. When someones ORCA craps out at 3 AM saturday morning, and they have to pay for every trip all weekend until they can get it swapped out during business hours on monday i dont think they&#039;ll be very happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Getting back on the ORCA subject, for it to be successful, you need to install TVMs at every major transit center and P&amp;R lot to sell and reload these cards, plus a better way of updating the buses enroute, instead of nightly at the base. Not to mention a wider full-service retailer network, plus 24-7 phone support. When someones ORCA craps out at 3 AM saturday morning, and they have to pay for every trip all weekend until they can get it swapped out during business hours on monday i dont think they&#8217;ll be very happy.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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