Comments on: Not on our bus http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/ Transit in the Greater Seattle Area Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:58:11 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Long News Roundup (I) - Seattle Transit Blog http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-83530 Long News Roundup (I) - Seattle Transit Blog Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:09:31 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-83530 [...] Transit’s “Not on Our Bus” claiming its first victories, getting its first [...] [...] Transit’s “Not on Our Bus” claiming its first victories, getting its first [...]

]]> By: Jennifer http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-78419 Jennifer Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:09:59 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-78419 One of the biggest problems transit has here in St. Louis is that people perceive the buses & light rail as unsafe. Any type of disturbance is widely reported in the media and serves only to feed those fears, no matter how many safe and comfortable commutes people make every day. Visibly increasing security, or undertaking these kinds of initiatives, gives people the cues that the transit agency takes people's fears seriously and wants to help protect them from harm. Remember, some people are carless by choice but many are by necessity and depend on transit to access their job, school, family, doctor, grocery, you name it. Should those people be subjected to unruly, loud, rude, thuggish behavior? Of course not, no one should! Remember, Giuliani "cleaned up" New York by starting with quality-of-life offenses like public urination and vandalism. These seemingly small offenses matter tremendously to the feel and accessibility of a place, even if that place is on wheels. One of the biggest problems transit has here in St. Louis is that people perceive the buses & light rail as unsafe. Any type of disturbance is widely reported in the media and serves only to feed those fears, no matter how many safe and comfortable commutes people make every day. Visibly increasing security, or undertaking these kinds of initiatives, gives people the cues that the transit agency takes people’s fears seriously and wants to help protect them from harm. Remember, some people are carless by choice but many are by necessity and depend on transit to access their job, school, family, doctor, grocery, you name it. Should those people be subjected to unruly, loud, rude, thuggish behavior? Of course not, no one should! Remember, Giuliani “cleaned up” New York by starting with quality-of-life offenses like public urination and vandalism. These seemingly small offenses matter tremendously to the feel and accessibility of a place, even if that place is on wheels.

]]> By: Jeff Welch http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-78391 Jeff Welch Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:22:13 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-78391 Another good example - disruptive behavior on board buses (or spilling out onto the street from a bus) should not be tolerated. Unfortunately, drivers aren't empowered - and are even actively discouraged - from intervening in any conflict on or off the bus in any way, and do not have ready access to security, nor does security have an active presence on even problem bus routes. What happened to this couple was unfortunate and unacceptable. Regrettably, this lawsuit didn't solve anything, or result in any change in Metro policy regarding driver expectations of responding to incidents on board the bus. The policy remains that if a disruption is occurring on board a bus, the driver is to pull over at the next safe location and open all doors to allow perpetrators and/or potential victims to leave the captive environment of the bus - and that's about it. Another good example – disruptive behavior on board buses (or spilling out onto the street from a bus) should not be tolerated. Unfortunately, drivers aren’t empowered – and are even actively discouraged – from intervening in any conflict on or off the bus in any way, and do not have ready access to security, nor does security have an active presence on even problem bus routes.

What happened to this couple was unfortunate and unacceptable. Regrettably, this lawsuit didn’t solve anything, or result in any change in Metro policy regarding driver expectations of responding to incidents on board the bus. The policy remains that if a disruption is occurring on board a bus, the driver is to pull over at the next safe location and open all doors to allow perpetrators and/or potential victims to leave the captive environment of the bus – and that’s about it.

]]> By: Greg http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-78341 Greg Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:55:14 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-78341 That's an interesting anecdote. Here's another: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004057305_webbusverdict07m.html "A jury this afternoon found that a King County Metro bus driver failed to come to the aid of a young couple when they were attacked in 2005 by a group of violent passengers." That’s an interesting anecdote. Here’s another:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004057305_webbusverdict07m.html

“A jury this afternoon found that a King County Metro bus driver failed to come to the aid of a young couple when they were attacked in 2005 by a group of violent passengers.”

]]> By: Jeff Welch http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-78202 Jeff Welch Mon, 02 Nov 2009 04:24:43 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-78202 Erik G., So how much "unlawful and disruptive conduct" on board buses should be tolerated in your view, and why? Erik G.,

So how much “unlawful and disruptive conduct” on board buses should be tolerated in your view, and why?

]]> By: Erik G. http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-78100 Erik G. Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:01:22 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-78100 From the code: 10. Engages in conduct not described in subsections 1 through 9 which is inconsistent with the intended use and purpose of the transit station or transit vehicle and refuses to obey the lawful command(s) of an agent of the transit authority or a peace officer to cease such conduct. Yup, off to jail with Mike B! From the code:

10. Engages in conduct not described in subsections 1 through 9 which is inconsistent with the intended use and purpose of the transit station or transit vehicle and refuses to obey the lawful command(s) of an agent of the transit authority or a peace officer to cease such conduct.

Yup, off to jail with Mike B!

]]> By: Erik G. http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-78099 Erik G. Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:00:30 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-78099 Zero-tolerance means Zero! http://www.delawareliberal.net/2009/10/06/zero-tolerance-is-zero-intelligence/ Zero-tolerance means Zero!

http://www.delawareliberal.net/2009/10/06/zero-tolerance-is-zero-intelligence/

]]> By: Jeff Welch http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-77939 Jeff Welch Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:08:52 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-77939 Mike B. Why the quotes around the term "suspicious"? The word doesn't appear in the article. Two words that DO appear are "unlawful" and "disruptive". Are you seriously bent on arguing that there should be no enforcement action to discourage and/or penalize behavior that is unlawful and/or disruptive? Do tell. Mike B.

Why the quotes around the term “suspicious”? The word doesn’t appear in the article.

Two words that DO appear are “unlawful” and “disruptive”.

Are you seriously bent on arguing that there should be no enforcement action to discourage and/or penalize behavior that is unlawful and/or disruptive?

Do tell.

]]> By: Jeff Welch http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-77938 Jeff Welch Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:07:13 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-77938 Erik, I'm guessing that the non-juvenile commuter type is probably a bit more enthusiastic of this enforcement policy than you are. Folks who ride the bus shouldn't feel unsafe, and cutting down in disruptive behavior aboard buses - one of the ultimate captive audience situations with an add-in of speed and movement - should go a ways towards making folks worry less about their safety in that environment. A quick study (and what the heck - a review of all of those political science and history classes I took as an undergraduate) convinces me that encouraging folks to behave in a civilized manner aboard public transportation bears no resemblance to any known definition of "fascism". Erik,

I’m guessing that the non-juvenile commuter type is probably a bit more enthusiastic of this enforcement policy than you are. Folks who ride the bus shouldn’t feel unsafe, and cutting down in disruptive behavior aboard buses – one of the ultimate captive audience situations with an add-in of speed and movement – should go a ways towards making folks worry less about their safety in that environment.

A quick study (and what the heck – a review of all of those political science and history classes I took as an undergraduate) convinces me that encouraging folks to behave in a civilized manner aboard public transportation bears no resemblance to any known definition of “fascism”.

]]> By: VeloBusDriver http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-77870 VeloBusDriver Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:22:10 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-77870 Fascism? Please... Grow up. Fascism? Please… Grow up.

]]> By: Erik G. http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-77860 Erik G. Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:47:30 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-77860 "Zero-Tolerance", bringing Fascism to the USA one child at a time! “Zero-Tolerance”, bringing Fascism to the USA one child at a time!

]]> By: Mike B http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-77820 Mike B Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:35:37 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-77820 I wonder if they'll approach and/or arrest photographers for being "suspicious". I wonder if they’ll approach and/or arrest photographers for being “suspicious”.

]]> By: alexjonlin http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-77699 alexjonlin Sat, 31 Oct 2009 05:49:01 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-77699 Hope they won't use this as an excuse to target all youths whether or not they're doing anything wrong... Hope they won’t use this as an excuse to target all youths whether or not they’re doing anything wrong…

]]> By: TomK http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-77641 TomK Sat, 31 Oct 2009 01:28:31 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-77641 "Certain" high schools? The list consists of ALL the regular high schools in the Tacoma School Disrict. The only ones not on there are a couple of smaller alternative schools. “Certain” high schools? The list consists of ALL the regular high schools in the Tacoma School Disrict. The only ones not on there are a couple of smaller alternative schools.

]]> By: Matt http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/10/30/not-on-our-bus/#comment-77631 Matt Sat, 31 Oct 2009 00:49:08 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9238#comment-77631 Did Lars Erickson say what the incident was? Don't drop a bomb like that without details! Did Lars Erickson say what the incident was? Don’t drop a bomb like that without details!

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