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	<title>Comments on: The Biggest Loser: WSDOT?</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Cascadian</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-79145</link>
		<dc:creator>Cascadian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 01:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-79145</guid>
		<description>If that&#039;s their job, they&#039;re failing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
If that&#8217;s their job, they&#8217;re failing.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mark Dublin</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-79144</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Dublin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 01:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-79144</guid>
		<description>Add some serious railroad tracks and catenary to that rendering, and somebody could have a plan. A hundred years ago, there were trains all over the Waterfront, passenger and freight. Think surface rail transit has to be slow? Go ride the streetcars in Gotheburg, Sweden. Just remember to hang onto something soon as you board. Motormen achieve right of way by sheer aggression, and a long understanding it&#039;s your own fault if you get hit by a streetcar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Add some serious railroad tracks and catenary to that rendering, and somebody could have a plan. A hundred years ago, there were trains all over the Waterfront, passenger and freight. Think surface rail transit has to be slow? Go ride the streetcars in Gotheburg, Sweden. Just remember to hang onto something soon as you board. Motormen achieve right of way by sheer aggression, and a long understanding it&#8217;s your own fault if you get hit by a streetcar.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Art</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-79069</link>
		<dc:creator>Art</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-79069</guid>
		<description>A definitive balance is necessary between buses and rail. No matter how many (or how few) rail lines and stations can affordably be built, buses will still serve the larger urban/suburban area. Integrating the two modes is essential, not only to reduce rail costs and impacts and make building more of them possible, but to ideally guide development along each transit corridor. Huge park-n-rides and transit centers at rail stations offer less development potential than simply designed transfer stations. 

The first model I use as a study example is Denver&#039;s 16th Street Transit Mall. Surface light rail crosses this 1 mile &#039;car-free&#039; transit mall between Union Station and the State Capitol grounds. Specially designed hybrid buses run at 2 minute intervals. There is virtually no waiting time for a bus and no need for shelters. The district is completely developed and busy at all hours. No doubt, there were calls for an expensive subway instead by people obliviously convinced one was necessary.  

If Bellevue were to accept the Lake Washington RR Line route for Link LRT, a similarly designed shuttle could run the fraction of a mile from the closest station into town and perhaps even north to SR-520 where it could terminate at a light rail station there instead of another subway into downtown Bellevue. Or, Bellevue could refuse any consideration of this &#039;modal integration&#039; and end up building no light rail lines, ever. Surface and structured parking lots along such a shuttle line would serve &#039;double duty&#039; for transit users and adjacent commercial development. 

NYC has a great subway system, but terrible traffic and nowhere to park. Denver has a &#039;carfree&#039; transit mall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
A definitive balance is necessary between buses and rail. No matter how many (or how few) rail lines and stations can affordably be built, buses will still serve the larger urban/suburban area. Integrating the two modes is essential, not only to reduce rail costs and impacts and make building more of them possible, but to ideally guide development along each transit corridor. Huge park-n-rides and transit centers at rail stations offer less development potential than simply designed transfer stations. </p>
<p>The first model I use as a study example is Denver&#8217;s 16th Street Transit Mall. Surface light rail crosses this 1 mile &#8216;car-free&#8217; transit mall between Union Station and the State Capitol grounds. Specially designed hybrid buses run at 2 minute intervals. There is virtually no waiting time for a bus and no need for shelters. The district is completely developed and busy at all hours. No doubt, there were calls for an expensive subway instead by people obliviously convinced one was necessary.  </p>
<p>If Bellevue were to accept the Lake Washington RR Line route for Link LRT, a similarly designed shuttle could run the fraction of a mile from the closest station into town and perhaps even north to SR-520 where it could terminate at a light rail station there instead of another subway into downtown Bellevue. Or, Bellevue could refuse any consideration of this &#8216;modal integration&#8217; and end up building no light rail lines, ever. Surface and structured parking lots along such a shuttle line would serve &#8216;double duty&#8217; for transit users and adjacent commercial development. </p>
<p>NYC has a great subway system, but terrible traffic and nowhere to park. Denver has a &#8216;carfree&#8217; transit mall.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Adam B. Parast</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-79009</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam B. Parast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-79009</guid>
		<description>It was on the King 5 debate.</description>
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It was on the King 5 debate.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78979</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78979</guid>
		<description>I think we need to balance demand, speed, and funding in future rail lines. On the one end you have local bus type service with streetcars running in mixed traffic. It doesn&#039;t buy you much other than increased capacity and larger investments from developers. On the other you have 100% grade separated alignments with gentle curves, shallow grades, direct routing, and widely spaced stations. You get plenty of speed, but it is extremely expensive, limiting how much you can build. Furthermore you may miss some major transit markets and transfer points due to direct routing and wide station spacing. You have a number of options in-between with varying costs, potential ridership, and travel time savings. The trick is to strike the right balance for each corridor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I think we need to balance demand, speed, and funding in future rail lines. On the one end you have local bus type service with streetcars running in mixed traffic. It doesn&#8217;t buy you much other than increased capacity and larger investments from developers. On the other you have 100% grade separated alignments with gentle curves, shallow grades, direct routing, and widely spaced stations. You get plenty of speed, but it is extremely expensive, limiting how much you can build. Furthermore you may miss some major transit markets and transfer points due to direct routing and wide station spacing. You have a number of options in-between with varying costs, potential ridership, and travel time savings. The trick is to strike the right balance for each corridor.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78971</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78971</guid>
		<description>With McGinn a Seattle funded light rail plan is much more likely to happen, though Mallahan may not have much choice but to get on board with Council President Conlin pushing the idea.</description>
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With McGinn a Seattle funded light rail plan is much more likely to happen, though Mallahan may not have much choice but to get on board with Council President Conlin pushing the idea.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Orr</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78902</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Orr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78902</guid>
		<description>Exactly. The reason subways work so well in NY/DC/London/Paris/Moscow is they&#039;re allowed to function like freeways.  People take them because &quot;it&#039;s the fastest way to get somewhere&quot;.  You build some crappy surface line with traffic crossings and stops every half mile, and people are going to say, &quot;It&#039;s no faster than a bus, what&#039;s the point of it?&quot; If you really want to get people out of their cars, you have to go to the next level of transit infrastructure.  That&#039;s why most New Yorkers and Londoners don&#039;t drive, because they have that infrastructure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Exactly. The reason subways work so well in NY/DC/London/Paris/Moscow is they&#8217;re allowed to function like freeways.  People take them because &#8220;it&#8217;s the fastest way to get somewhere&#8221;.  You build some crappy surface line with traffic crossings and stops every half mile, and people are going to say, &#8220;It&#8217;s no faster than a bus, what&#8217;s the point of it?&#8221; If you really want to get people out of their cars, you have to go to the next level of transit infrastructure.  That&#8217;s why most New Yorkers and Londoners don&#8217;t drive, because they have that infrastructure.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: DJStroky</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78899</link>
		<dc:creator>DJStroky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78899</guid>
		<description>Yes and yes.  Things are going pretty well.  It looks like you&#039;re getting a great education on rail operations in Stockholm.  Bring back some high speed trains when you come back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Yes and yes.  Things are going pretty well.  It looks like you&#8217;re getting a great education on rail operations in Stockholm.  Bring back some high speed trains when you come back.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: alexjonlin</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78880</link>
		<dc:creator>alexjonlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78880</guid>
		<description>Subways, elevated segments, and park-n-rides make it so people actually ride it. When our system is built out we will have way more riders per mile than almost any other light rail system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Subways, elevated segments, and park-n-rides make it so people actually ride it. When our system is built out we will have way more riders per mile than almost any other light rail system.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Kenneth Parker</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78873</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenneth Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78873</guid>
		<description>They think that the gas tax covers all of it.  Too few people has been reminding tax payers that the gas tax isn&#039;t index to road building and repair inflation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
They think that the gas tax covers all of it.  Too few people has been reminding tax payers that the gas tax isn&#8217;t index to road building and repair inflation.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Art</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78858</link>
		<dc:creator>Art</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78858</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say McGinn has a chance to upset the entire rotten apple cart. The mega-projects WsDOT and SDOT have laid out are extremely overbuilt. No worries about future petroleum supplies nor carbon dioxide nor globalization from those highway robber barons. Their highways are all built to &#039;their&#039; expected future of increased motor vehicle travel, no problemo! McGinn may also gain some control over Sound Transit, whose light rail expansions are similarly overbuilt with subways and elevated segments and park-n-rides. Sound Transit doesn&#039;t work well with other transit agencies. Incorporating bus route designs in light rail plans you&#039;d think should be a priority, but noooo...</description>
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I&#8217;d say McGinn has a chance to upset the entire rotten apple cart. The mega-projects WsDOT and SDOT have laid out are extremely overbuilt. No worries about future petroleum supplies nor carbon dioxide nor globalization from those highway robber barons. Their highways are all built to &#8216;their&#8217; expected future of increased motor vehicle travel, no problemo! McGinn may also gain some control over Sound Transit, whose light rail expansions are similarly overbuilt with subways and elevated segments and park-n-rides. Sound Transit doesn&#8217;t work well with other transit agencies. Incorporating bus route designs in light rail plans you&#8217;d think should be a priority, but noooo&#8230;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: alexjonlin</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78850</link>
		<dc:creator>alexjonlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78850</guid>
		<description>Really? I didn&#039;t hear the bus/rail thing mentioned anywhere before.</description>
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Really? I didn&#8217;t hear the bus/rail thing mentioned anywhere before.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: alexjonlin</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78849</link>
		<dc:creator>alexjonlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78849</guid>
		<description>No, the point of WSDOT is to unify the entire state&#039;s transportation system. We already have counties, cities, and local/regional transit systems to serve the specific metro areas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
No, the point of WSDOT is to unify the entire state&#8217;s transportation system. We already have counties, cities, and local/regional transit systems to serve the specific metro areas.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: alexjonlin</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78848</link>
		<dc:creator>alexjonlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78848</guid>
		<description>I agree that McGinn has better ideas in terms of transportation than Mallahan. But I don&#039;t think either of them, as mayor, will be able to &quot;stop jack&quot; or make anything new happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I agree that McGinn has better ideas in terms of transportation than Mallahan. But I don&#8217;t think either of them, as mayor, will be able to &#8220;stop jack&#8221; or make anything new happen.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Schiendelman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78824</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Schiendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78824</guid>
		<description>The 4 lane bridge idea is 4 lanes plus bus/rail (like the bus tunnel).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
The 4 lane bridge idea is 4 lanes plus bus/rail (like the bus tunnel).<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: gwen c.</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78795</link>
		<dc:creator>gwen c.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78795</guid>
		<description>Personally, i think tolling is pretty awesome. While I do use transit for about 80% of my mobility (the other 20% being roughly evenly split between car and bicycle), it affects me both as a transit user and an occasional driver. 

1)I&#039;m poor. I can&#039;t afford it when tax increases end up affecting the gas for my grocerygetter and getting passed along in things i buy. 
  1a)and being poor, i can&#039;t afford a dense or fashionable neighborhood; Seattle&#039;s ghettos lack reasonable supermarkets that sell healthy food. I generally am hiking four miles to a decent Safeway, not crossing the lake. Building the cost of the bridge into my taxes is unfair as it taxes me even though i don&#039;t really use it, bringing me to...

2)You pay to get your butt on the bus. You pay to play golf. You should pay for nice new roads.

3)When i do need to drive to the Eastside, it will be quick and i won&#039;t sit in traffic all day. $4 and not wasting half an hour in traffic (burning gas at 3 bucks a gallon getting 0 MPG) and the time i save counts. Really, the underclass loses more money in waiting for things; a half an hour late means i lose my job whereas it&#039;s less likely to be that way for people with more dosh, who also benefit by moving at higher speeds. Remember the Tacoma Narrows before the new bridge? That 2.whatever i pay with Good To Go! is worth every penny to not sit in interminible traffic.
  3a)The bus goes faster, too! Hopefully we&#039;ll have light rail but this will nevertheless mean faster buses. More people ride the bus when it&#039;s faster. 

4)There&#039;s an incentive to keep the toll road moving. WSDOT does a *great* job attending to less severe wrecks. That said, a toll can fund an extra tow truck, etc...the authority has a financial incentive to keep everyone moving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Personally, i think tolling is pretty awesome. While I do use transit for about 80% of my mobility (the other 20% being roughly evenly split between car and bicycle), it affects me both as a transit user and an occasional driver. </p>
<p>1)I&#8217;m poor. I can&#8217;t afford it when tax increases end up affecting the gas for my grocerygetter and getting passed along in things i buy.<br />
  1a)and being poor, i can&#8217;t afford a dense or fashionable neighborhood; Seattle&#8217;s ghettos lack reasonable supermarkets that sell healthy food. I generally am hiking four miles to a decent Safeway, not crossing the lake. Building the cost of the bridge into my taxes is unfair as it taxes me even though i don&#8217;t really use it, bringing me to&#8230;</p>
<p>2)You pay to get your butt on the bus. You pay to play golf. You should pay for nice new roads.</p>
<p>3)When i do need to drive to the Eastside, it will be quick and i won&#8217;t sit in traffic all day. $4 and not wasting half an hour in traffic (burning gas at 3 bucks a gallon getting 0 MPG) and the time i save counts. Really, the underclass loses more money in waiting for things; a half an hour late means i lose my job whereas it&#8217;s less likely to be that way for people with more dosh, who also benefit by moving at higher speeds. Remember the Tacoma Narrows before the new bridge? That 2.whatever i pay with Good To Go! is worth every penny to not sit in interminible traffic.<br />
  3a)The bus goes faster, too! Hopefully we&#8217;ll have light rail but this will nevertheless mean faster buses. More people ride the bus when it&#8217;s faster. </p>
<p>4)There&#8217;s an incentive to keep the toll road moving. WSDOT does a *great* job attending to less severe wrecks. That said, a toll can fund an extra tow truck, etc&#8230;the authority has a financial incentive to keep everyone moving.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78793</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78793</guid>
		<description>Opportunity cost. It&#039;s not always as simple as &quot;you do A you don&#039;t get B&quot; with restrictions on what money can get spent where, but arguably you could change those restrictions if you so desired. In a state where higher ed is looking at 14% tuition increases over 2 years and we cut 40,000 people off the basic health plan, I&#039;d say there are lots of things that may be more important than the tunnel.</description>
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Opportunity cost. It&#8217;s not always as simple as &#8220;you do A you don&#8217;t get B&#8221; with restrictions on what money can get spent where, but arguably you could change those restrictions if you so desired. In a state where higher ed is looking at 14% tuition increases over 2 years and we cut 40,000 people off the basic health plan, I&#8217;d say there are lots of things that may be more important than the tunnel.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Adam B. Parast</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78792</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam B. Parast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78792</guid>
		<description>Yes very true. For example PCL that won the Tukwila segment of Link won because they came up with an innovative concrete pumping technique for the support columns that I believe lowered their material costs or increased construction speed. That was from a tour a while ago and I don&#039;t remember all the specifics. 

I think everyone is worried about soil. The southern portal is built in what used to be a tide flat just 100 years ago. You just don&#039;t know what you will encounter. Just take a look at this tunnel in Sweden. It is expected to cost 10 times the initial estimates, and mostly because of poor soil conditions. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallandsås_Tunnel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Yes very true. For example PCL that won the Tukwila segment of Link won because they came up with an innovative concrete pumping technique for the support columns that I believe lowered their material costs or increased construction speed. That was from a tour a while ago and I don&#8217;t remember all the specifics. </p>
<p>I think everyone is worried about soil. The southern portal is built in what used to be a tide flat just 100 years ago. You just don&#8217;t know what you will encounter. Just take a look at this tunnel in Sweden. It is expected to cost 10 times the initial estimates, and mostly because of poor soil conditions. </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallandsås_Tunnel" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallandsås_Tunnel</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Adam B. Parast</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78787</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam B. Parast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78787</guid>
		<description>Yup sorry. McGinn wants a 4 lane bridge with light rail. He wouldn&#039;t even answer which West side alternative he supports because he sees them as all seriously flawed.</description>
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Yup sorry. McGinn wants a 4 lane bridge with light rail. He wouldn&#8217;t even answer which West side alternative he supports because he sees them as all seriously flawed.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/11/04/the-big-looser/#comment-78786</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=9367#comment-78786</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The bad part about then is that moving risk from the owner to builder is then presented in an increased bid cost.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I think this is supposed to be mitigated in part by the construction firm using specifications and methods with which they are most familiar and may potentially be able to reused portions of existing work. But, with the unexpected soils conditions encountered in our latest tunneling endeavor I suspect the cushion any contractor includes in the price will push the cost well in excess of the $2B the State pulled out of the ground for it&#039;s estimate. Especially since the firms will be attempting to bid without incurring any of the extensive engineering work which would all be for naught if they don&#039;t win the contract.</description>
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<blockquote><p>The bad part about then is that moving risk from the owner to builder is then presented in an increased bid cost.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think this is supposed to be mitigated in part by the construction firm using specifications and methods with which they are most familiar and may potentially be able to reused portions of existing work. But, with the unexpected soils conditions encountered in our latest tunneling endeavor I suspect the cushion any contractor includes in the price will push the cost well in excess of the $2B the State pulled out of the ground for it&#8217;s estimate. Especially since the firms will be attempting to bid without incurring any of the extensive engineering work which would all be for naught if they don&#8217;t win the contract.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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