Comments on: No One Is Dragging Their Feet

By: Mickymse

Mickymse — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:09:10 +0000

I’m not talking about Mike’s promise to put a light rail plan up for a vote, Ben. I’m talking about long overdue promises made by City Council members to make proposals.

And, sorry, I didn’t mean there was nothing in South Lake Union. I mean the SLUT doesn’t connect to any other streetcar line, has a terrible connection to light rail, and won’t connect to the next line we expect to build. I wasn’t knocking ridership here, but system planning.

By: Chris Stefan

Chris Stefan — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:26:11 +0000

In 2001 the City of Seattle conducted a Seattle Transit Study for Intermediate Capacity Transit. There is some interesting information in there for future transit planning be it for bus, BRT, ETB, streetcar, or light rail service. Seattle Transit Study for Intermediate Capacity Transit - Final Report Seattle Transit Study for Intermediate Capacity Transit - Stage II Ridership and Cost estimates There is also the Seattle Transit Plan which has the Urban Village Transit Network corridors in it. One map of particular interest is Map 3.1: 2000 Population/Employment Density with Transit Ridership. This map superimposes ridership per-mile over a density map.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 00:00:25 +0000

Michael – why do you keep asking when the city will deliver on something when the administration that made the promise won’t be seated for another month?

And the new streetcar connects to Link, Amazon, Gates Foundation, soon MOHAI, Fred Hutch, Zymogenetics, and many other employers – and Link and of course downtown on the other end. Quit with the rhetoric, it’s tired, and it just makes me not like you.

By: Mickymse

Mickymse — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:55:37 +0000

Thanks, Mike… but I’m talking only about planning for a light rail line in the corridor. Lord only knows when we could afford to build it.

And, Ben, of course ST stopped looking at the corridor when the Monorail vote passed. I’m talking about promises at least three current City Council members made directly to me and other monorail supporters when the project collapsed, and cited quotes from folks during the campaign cycle when it was voted down.

At the time, there was an understanding that we needed rapid, grade-separated transit inside the city limits; and that this need didn’t go away because some agency staff and board members completely fucked up the plan I helped work on.

So, where’s the study those City folks promised? If SDOT can’t do it, they can pay ST. And why has the result been the closing of one beloved streetcar line, the opening of a new one not connected to anything, and plans for Rapid Ride that may or may not be rapid in the corridor and certainly is not grade-separated?

By: Mickymse

Mickymse — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:47:47 +0000

For the record, the only thing “wrong” with the Seattle Monorail Project was funding. The Project needed either a larger tax base, a higher rate, or additional tax sources.

I’m not interested in repeating the countless mistakes that happened after the public transit agency came into being, either; but there was absolutely nothing wrong with the initial plan presented to voters. The engineering was sound and a contractor was ready to build it for a fixed contract price.

More importantly, there were technology comparison studies done for the corridor which could be referenced. There were also ridership and feasibility studies conducted that could be updated. There should even be documents regarding the bridge crossing to West Seattle and what can be done with the existing bridge or what’s necessary for building a new one.

By: Mike Lindblom

Mike Lindblom — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:46:25 +0000

For the record, the Seattle Monorail Project spent not $6 million but $124 million [the final net cost to taxpayers] to reach final negotiations with its contractor in Spring 2005. The total project budget of appx. $2.1b required 50 years of financing, because the SMP’s car-tab taxes weren’t robust enough to support a conventional 30-year funding. Ideally, the SMP might have planned its Green Line for tens of millions less, but nowhere near as low as $6m.
– Mike Lindblom, Seattle Times.

By: joshuadf

joshuadf — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:57:18 +0000

Amen on eliminating some of the stops!

The new Green/Yellow ROW seems better for signal priority, but the older MAX ROW stops all the time.

By: jeff

jeff — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:07:37 +0000

You are right. I should have also said that there are a lot of people who keep bringing up the monorail who have a pathological hatred of light rail. I never understood the hatred on either side.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 04:10:04 +0000

jeff (not Jeff Welch, I mean little j jeff here):

Maybe you missed this, but I’m replying to a comment blaming ST for not studying the corridor. From a former employee of SMP. Think through your position before replying again.

If I hate the monorail, it’s because people keep bringing up “what the monorail could have done” in trying to push our current agencies to make the same mistakes the SMP did.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 04:04:53 +0000

Brian, I spent all weekend riding MAX, and stopped at lights downtown (or had very long station stops due to lights) *constantly*. If they get signal priority, I couldn’t tell.

By: Jeff Welch

Jeff Welch — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:33:56 +0000

Michael DeBell was the activist who nobody is sure where is income comes from, BTW. Currently serving on the Seattle School Board, I believe.

By: Jeff Welch

Jeff Welch — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:32:36 +0000

The monorail – which I voted for before I voted against it – wound up being a stupid, wasteful idea. The final straw for me was when local activist of dubious income origin (nobody is quite sure how he makes his money) went on the Dave Ross show and called those who opposed the monorail “curmudgeonly”. It’s this attitude – which I sometimes see in some of the more ardent rail-uber-alles advocates – that turns me off. This “blue tower” idea that you lack vision simply because you don’t share THEIR vision.

I darn well DO hate the failed monorail – now – if only for the time and money wasted that could have been directed at completing something that people could be riding on by now.

They did have a cute little float that showed up in parades though. Kind of like a chinese dragon, only a monorail that danced around.

By: jeff

jeff — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:19:43 +0000

Of course the SMP told ST not to study the corridor. What where they supposed to do. Tell Sound Transit “We are going to fail. Why don’t you develop a plan to build a light rail line after we collapse.” The monorail project made a lot of mistakes but your hatred of it is pathological.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:01:30 +0000

And you know what? “Supposed to be done”? The SMP told Sound Transit not to study the corridor.

THE SMP TOLD SOUND TRANSIT NOT TO STUDY THE CORRIDOR.

If you’re going to blame anyone for ST not having done a West Seattle study, blame the monorail. ST had the funding to do it ten years ago, but was very clearly asked not to. Talk about short-sighted.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:00:21 +0000

rbc – you’re right on both counts. This will probably more than the monorail spent (especially because it probably needs to be done faster than 2 years to get something ready for ballot filing), but it won’t have to cover the entire corridor.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:59:18 +0000

Michael, it’s unclear yet whether McGinn even wants ST to do it, or to have SDOT do it. The ball is squarely in his court.

By: Ben Schiendelman

Ben Schiendelman — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:57:44 +0000

Sam, the City of Seattle isn’t exactly going to be paying for light rail where there are 4 housing units per acre when we have places in the city we can build rail where there are 20 housing units per acre.

By: lazarus

lazarus — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:55:00 +0000

Mickymse,

Yes, we all know what the monorail agency did in 2 years for just $6M. Unfortunately we also all know just how successful what they did was. That is now history – history that we can hopefully avoid repeating.

I think LR will eventually get built in the WS to Ballard corridor, but I personally hope it gets done right this time – and if that means taking a bit more time and spending a bit more money than the SMP spent on their plan, then so be it.

By: reality based commute

reality based commute — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:54:02 +0000

Mickymse is correct, the burden is on the city, not ST, to move up the funding. However, I would point out two things about the need for $12 million for the study. First, I believe the 12 million covers the entire corridor from Tukwila-Burien-West Seattle in the south and both Ballard-Interbay and Wallingford in the north. Second, perhaps in retrospect the monorail authority underbudgeted their planning effort given the ultimate results…

By: Brian Bundridge

Brian Bundridge — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:47:15 +0000

Yes it does. Never been stopped in Downtown except waiting for another MAX or the Portland Streetcar since they cross each other at-grade.

Come to think of it. I never have been delayed on any of MAX. Always been moving on it without the random stops at lights and such.

The biggest downer with the MAX is that there are so many stops in Downtown. If they eliminated half of them, it would feel much, much faster.