Comments on: Center Platforms http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/ Transit in the Greater Seattle Area Sat, 26 May 2012 01:58:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Nathanael http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-97814 Nathanael Sat, 16 Jan 2010 08:56:38 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-97814 I wonder if it could be used for an express track in the future?
I wonder if it could be used for an express track in the future?

]]> By: Casey http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93177 Casey Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:48:57 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93177 I think trains and buses mix fine, except for the occasionally breakdown. And I know it can be a little slower at peak hours, but so many of us Metro drivers love it the tunnel. Delays in the tunnel aren't too bad. I will be sad in 2016 when all tunnel routes will be back on the surface. Also, if you don't like buses in the tunnel now, I hate to break the news to you, but more routes are going into the tunnel in February. Now that the 174 and soon to be 194 are gone, a little space has become avalible. So in February Shake-up, Routes: 76, 77, 216, 218 and 316 will be added. Here's how I see it. In the PM Peak 3-7pm..... 174 in the past operated :30min service.....8 N/B trips, 8 S/B trips 194 currently operates at PM Peak...........15 N/B trips, 9 S/B trips. So combined deletion of 174/194 during PM peak is 23 N/B trips and 17 S/B trips. In February in the PM Peak 3-7pm(I'm going by current service levels on these routes) 76 operates 9 trips (N/B) 77 operates 9 trips (N/B) 316 operates 8 trips (N/B) 216 operates 6 trips (S/B) 218 operates 14 trips (S/B) Total of 26 N/B trips, 20 S/B trips So over the length of the PM Peak (4 hrs) that is only 3 extra trips in each direction. Should not be an issue. So I'm glad they are putting more routes in the tunnel replace the 174/194.
I think trains and buses mix fine, except for the occasionally breakdown. And I know it can be a little slower at peak hours, but so many of us Metro drivers love it the tunnel. Delays in the tunnel aren’t too bad. I will be sad in 2016 when all tunnel routes will be back on the surface.

Also, if you don’t like buses in the tunnel now, I hate to break the news to you, but more routes are going into the tunnel in February. Now that the 174 and soon to be 194 are gone, a little space has become avalible. So in February Shake-up, Routes: 76, 77, 216, 218 and 316 will be added.

Here’s how I see it.
In the PM Peak 3-7pm…..
174 in the past operated :30min service…..8 N/B trips, 8 S/B trips
194 currently operates at PM Peak………..15 N/B trips, 9 S/B trips.
So combined deletion of 174/194 during PM peak is 23 N/B trips and 17 S/B trips.

In February in the PM Peak 3-7pm(I’m going by current service levels on these routes)
76 operates 9 trips (N/B)
77 operates 9 trips (N/B)
316 operates 8 trips (N/B)
216 operates 6 trips (S/B)
218 operates 14 trips (S/B)
Total of 26 N/B trips, 20 S/B trips

So over the length of the PM Peak (4 hrs) that is only 3 extra trips in each direction. Should not be an issue. So I’m glad they are putting more routes in the tunnel replace the 174/194.

]]> By: Oran Viriyincy http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93170 Oran Viriyincy Wed, 30 Dec 2009 07:24:51 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93170 This video shows how the bus tunnel worked before the retrofit. You'll see the Bredas switch modes and pass each other at stations around 1:30. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etT_wVuKy_I
This video shows how the bus tunnel worked before the retrofit. You’ll see the Bredas switch modes and pass each other at stations around 1:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etT_wVuKy_I

]]> By: Casey http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93164 Casey Wed, 30 Dec 2009 05:40:43 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93164 What do you mean the center lane wasn't needed? Before the tunnel retrofit, the Breda's where allowed to pass in the station, with each station having a passing wire as the Breda's were electric. This was great if a coach had a wheelchair or it broke down for some reason. Now we aren't allowed to pass for two reasons. The trains. And the other reson, even before the trains. We are trained to operate the coach within a certain distance of the platform, about 6 inches. Because the curbs are high, the bus can be damaged if we touch the platform. When passing a coach, you have to turn out into the center lane. By doing this from the position of 6 inches from the curb, you can easily touch the platform with the coach because of tail swing. The center lane is needed to pass a coach or train that may be disabled in the station, but only with permission form Link Control. Also, if a center platform existed, the ablility to access the tube (oppostie direction) if the tube in your direction was blocked by a bus or train. When we tunnel trained, this was presented as an option that obviously only the buses could do, under direction of Link control and supervisors, if a tube segment was blocked. So yes, the the center lane was needed and was often used prior to the ST retrofit, but is still needed when the situation arrises, that a bus or train becomes disabled.
What do you mean the center lane wasn’t needed? Before the tunnel retrofit, the Breda’s where allowed to pass in the station, with each station having a passing wire as the Breda’s were electric. This was great if a coach had a wheelchair or it broke down for some reason.

Now we aren’t allowed to pass for two reasons. The trains. And the other reson, even before the trains. We are trained to operate the coach within a certain distance of the platform, about 6 inches. Because the curbs are high, the bus can be damaged if we touch the platform. When passing a coach, you have to turn out into the center lane. By doing this from the position of 6 inches from the curb, you can easily touch the platform with the coach because of tail swing.

The center lane is needed to pass a coach or train that may be disabled in the station, but only with permission form Link Control. Also, if a center platform existed, the ablility to access the tube (oppostie direction) if the tube in your direction was blocked by a bus or train. When we tunnel trained, this was presented as an option that obviously only the buses could do, under direction of Link control and supervisors, if a tube segment was blocked.

So yes, the the center lane was needed and was often used prior to the ST retrofit, but is still needed when the situation arrises, that a bus or train becomes disabled.

]]> By: NJL http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93118 NJL Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:54:20 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93118 The busses will go away eventually. By U-Link will make the 71-74 mostly redundant in the tunnel, expanding to Northgate will get rid of 41. East Link will replace the 550. Those make up the majority of busses going through the tunnel. Having the line both run through the tunnel won't be a disadvantage, it will enable a reduction of headways from Northgate to ID Station, maximizing capacity and user efficiency.
The busses will go away eventually. By U-Link will make the 71-74 mostly redundant in the tunnel, expanding to Northgate will get rid of 41. East Link will replace the 550. Those make up the majority of busses going through the tunnel.

Having the line both run through the tunnel won’t be a disadvantage, it will enable a reduction of headways from Northgate to ID Station, maximizing capacity and user efficiency.

]]> By: NJL http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93116 NJL Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:41:18 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93116 There won't be busses in the DSTT by the time East Link opens. Central Link and East Link trains will merge at the ID Station (as the trains and busses do now) and probably at Northgate Station (maybe further north).
There won’t be busses in the DSTT by the time East Link opens. Central Link and East Link trains will merge at the ID Station (as the trains and busses do now) and probably at Northgate Station (maybe further north).

]]> By: Matt http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93058 Matt Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:45:38 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93058 Wait, what? I transfer from Link to the 72 every workday. It's sweet!
Wait, what? I transfer from Link to the 72 every workday. It’s sweet!

]]> By: Matt http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93055 Matt Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:35:52 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93055 Stopping at Sea-Tac would be nice, but either a detour or a bored tunnel through all that runway fill (Do'h! Shoulda thought of that when they dumped it all there...) would be necessary.
Stopping at Sea-Tac would be nice, but either a detour or a bored tunnel through all that runway fill (Do’h! Shoulda thought of that when they dumped it all there…) would be necessary.

]]> By: Matt http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93047 Matt Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:11:14 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93047 Crossing at grade in that station, from center to side platforms, would be short and sweet.
Crossing at grade in that station, from center to side platforms, would be short and sweet.

]]> By: Andrew http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93039 Andrew Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:47:40 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93039 You've got to be kidding... Between the buses, Central link trains, and East Link Trains, it will be utter chaos! This is going to result in frequent collisions and delays! When will Sound Transit get a 'friggin brain?!
You’ve got to be kidding… Between the buses, Central link trains, and East Link Trains, it will be utter chaos! This is going to result in frequent collisions and delays!

When will Sound Transit get a ‘friggin brain?!

]]> By: Andrew http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93036 Andrew Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:35:48 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93036 When two light-rail lines intersect, there should be TWO stations. Once there is a vast network of subway/light-rail, the trains will be running too frequently to be sharing stations with other lines. AND... Get rid of the buses in the DSTT! Buses and Trains don't mix!
When two light-rail lines intersect, there should be TWO stations. Once there is a vast network of subway/light-rail, the trains will be running too frequently to be sharing stations with other lines.

AND… Get rid of the buses in the DSTT! Buses and Trains don’t mix!

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93021 Ben Schiendelman Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:13:02 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93021 We could just not allow people to drive on the tracks.
We could just not allow people to drive on the tracks.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93020 Ben Schiendelman Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:09:48 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93020 Page 1 is empty. Keep going.
Page 1 is empty. Keep going.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93019 Ben Schiendelman Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:03:48 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93019 We couldn't add a center platform until we got buses out of the tunnel anyway.
We couldn’t add a center platform until we got buses out of the tunnel anyway.

]]> By: Ben Schiendelman http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-93018 Ben Schiendelman Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:03:17 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-93018 Lucas, I don't think the intention is a crossing. Just a middle platform.
Lucas, I don’t think the intention is a crossing. Just a middle platform.

]]> By: Anandakos http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-92981 Anandakos Tue, 29 Dec 2009 08:48:31 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-92981 Dude, What you're saying is true of surface and elevated stations only. Bored tunnels are actually more stable if they're separated by a couple of dozen feet. So it makes sense to use center platforms with them for the health of the tunnels between stations as well as for the lesser volume of earth to be mined for the station.
Dude,

What you’re saying is true of surface and elevated stations only. Bored tunnels are actually more stable if they’re separated by a couple of dozen feet. So it makes sense to use center platforms with them for the health of the tunnels between stations as well as for the lesser volume of earth to be mined for the station.

]]> By: Kellen Donohue http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-92975 Kellen Donohue Tue, 29 Dec 2009 08:15:41 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-92975 If the U-Link and North Link station cross-section plans are representative those tunnel stations will all be center platform, which makes sense with the above-stated cost benefits for tunnel stations.
If the U-Link and North Link station cross-section plans are representative those tunnel stations will all be center platform, which makes sense with the above-stated cost benefits for tunnel stations.

]]> By: Alper http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-92968 Alper Tue, 29 Dec 2009 07:23:37 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-92968 I'm going to have to say that I really don't see this as a big deal. There's pros and cons about both, and the decision between the two is based on the environmental context of the station location more than anything else.
I’m going to have to say that I really don’t see this as a big deal. There’s pros and cons about both, and the decision between the two is based on the environmental context of the station location more than anything else.

]]> By: Mike http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-92931 Mike Tue, 29 Dec 2009 04:36:44 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-92931 Plenty of cities have these. No worries!
Plenty of cities have these. No worries!

]]> By: Mike http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/28/center-platforms/#comment-92929 Mike Tue, 29 Dec 2009 04:24:52 +0000 http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=10977#comment-92929 Nothing on the document. ?????
Nothing on the document.

?????

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