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	<title>Comments on: Extended New Year&#8217;s Eve Service</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-94485</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 12:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-94485</guid>
		<description>On the 358?

You&#039;re kidding - right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
On the 358?</p>
<p>You&#8217;re kidding &#8211; right?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bobby</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-94444</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 06:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-94444</guid>
		<description>Jeff, I don&#039;t hesitate to ride late night buses and would suspect that overall the New Year&#039;s crowd, while likely to be unruly, is probably no more dangerous than other non-peak hour crowds on any given route.  But I would not have wanted to be on that particular bus because I would not have wanted to worry all night about whether there would be space for me due to an ill-advised service reduction.

Earlier you mentioned that scheduling an exception into the reduced weekday schedule would be a challenge.  I think that they could do it the same way they add extra trips on game days.  In my opinion that is what they should be doing - advertising transit as a reliable post-celebration option and adding trips.  But, you&#039;re right - someone needs to pay for it.  Until that happens, maybe they could cut back little-used service on the east side and use that funding.

Anyway, happy new year!  We&#039;ve about gone round on this enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Jeff, I don&#8217;t hesitate to ride late night buses and would suspect that overall the New Year&#8217;s crowd, while likely to be unruly, is probably no more dangerous than other non-peak hour crowds on any given route.  But I would not have wanted to be on that particular bus because I would not have wanted to worry all night about whether there would be space for me due to an ill-advised service reduction.</p>
<p>Earlier you mentioned that scheduling an exception into the reduced weekday schedule would be a challenge.  I think that they could do it the same way they add extra trips on game days.  In my opinion that is what they should be doing &#8211; advertising transit as a reliable post-celebration option and adding trips.  But, you&#8217;re right &#8211; someone needs to pay for it.  Until that happens, maybe they could cut back little-used service on the east side and use that funding.</p>
<p>Anyway, happy new year!  We&#8217;ve about gone round on this enough.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-94166</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 05:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-94166</guid>
		<description>Bobby,

I hear you - but I have yet in 2 years driving routes at 3 different bases to see a police officer on board a bus - ever.

There were &quot;transit options&quot; for revelers - just not past a certain time.  Budget cuts being what they are, the &quot;reduced weekday&quot; plan has seen it&#039;s first year this last service period, and will continue to see them.

If you want more transit options scheduled during more hours (and more security), as I keep saying - all it takes is money.  Slamming &quot;planners&quot; for doing their jobs and making cuts during overall low-demand periods is what they get paid to do.

And other than the 174, I can&#039;t think of what bus I&#039;d least want to drive (or ride) than a 358 headed north from the Seattle Center after midnight on New Years.

Would YOU want to be on that bus?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Bobby,</p>
<p>I hear you &#8211; but I have yet in 2 years driving routes at 3 different bases to see a police officer on board a bus &#8211; ever.</p>
<p>There were &#8220;transit options&#8221; for revelers &#8211; just not past a certain time.  Budget cuts being what they are, the &#8220;reduced weekday&#8221; plan has seen it&#8217;s first year this last service period, and will continue to see them.</p>
<p>If you want more transit options scheduled during more hours (and more security), as I keep saying &#8211; all it takes is money.  Slamming &#8220;planners&#8221; for doing their jobs and making cuts during overall low-demand periods is what they get paid to do.</p>
<p>And other than the 174, I can&#8217;t think of what bus I&#8217;d least want to drive (or ride) than a 358 headed north from the Seattle Center after midnight on New Years.</p>
<p>Would YOU want to be on that bus?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bobby</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-94163</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 05:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-94163</guid>
		<description>Jeff, I wouldn&#039;t blame you for not picking that run.  But, someone drives those late trips, and night owl trips, and many other cities do things to try to encourage transit use on New Year&#039;s (i.e., SF Muni offers free rides from 12/31 evening till 1/1 morning).  It&#039;s not out of the realm of possibility that cops could be assigned to ride, and extra buses put out instead of canceling buses.  Failing to provide a transit option for revelers is just another example of transit riders being put on the back burner...</description>
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Jeff, I wouldn&#8217;t blame you for not picking that run.  But, someone drives those late trips, and night owl trips, and many other cities do things to try to encourage transit use on New Year&#8217;s (i.e., SF Muni offers free rides from 12/31 evening till 1/1 morning).  It&#8217;s not out of the realm of possibility that cops could be assigned to ride, and extra buses put out instead of canceling buses.  Failing to provide a transit option for revelers is just another example of transit riders being put on the back burner&#8230;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-94156</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 04:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-94156</guid>
		<description>Bobby,

You&#039;re referring to a series of trips cancelled due to &quot;reduced weekday&quot; scheduling.

I&#039;m not sure what would be required to make an exception for 1 run out of the entire week, but I&#039;m guessing it wouldn&#039;t be simple to schedule.

As a driver, I&#039;d be damned if I&#039;d want to drive the 358 at 12:30 a.m. on New Year&#039;s Day anyway - not without a SWAT team onboard at any rate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Bobby,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re referring to a series of trips cancelled due to &#8220;reduced weekday&#8221; scheduling.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what would be required to make an exception for 1 run out of the entire week, but I&#8217;m guessing it wouldn&#8217;t be simple to schedule.</p>
<p>As a driver, I&#8217;d be damned if I&#8217;d want to drive the 358 at 12:30 a.m. on New Year&#8217;s Day anyway &#8211; not without a SWAT team onboard at any rate.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bobby</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-94155</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 04:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-94155</guid>
		<description>The timetable lists it with an &quot;H&quot; symbol, which means that it was canceled for the whole week - check it out:  http://metro.kingcounty.gov/tops/bus/schedules/s358_0_.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
The timetable lists it with an &#8220;H&#8221; symbol, which means that it was canceled for the whole week &#8211; check it out:  <a href="http://metro.kingcounty.gov/tops/bus/schedules/s358_0_.html" rel="nofollow">http://metro.kingcounty.gov/tops/bus/schedules/s358_0_.html</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-94078</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 19:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-94078</guid>
		<description>What makes you say it was cancelled?</description>
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What makes you say it was cancelled?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bobby</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-94077</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 19:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-94077</guid>
		<description>True to form, Metro cancels the last run of the 358 (from Seattle Center area) to North Seattle on New Year&#039;s Eve...Metro service planners and there bosses are so out of touch with reality...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
True to form, Metro cancels the last run of the 358 (from Seattle Center area) to North Seattle on New Year&#8217;s Eve&#8230;Metro service planners and there bosses are so out of touch with reality&#8230;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-93667</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 01:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-93667</guid>
		<description>The tunnel ownership and finance is complicated to say the least. I think Oran&#039;s got it right that it was transferred from City ownership to County ownership when Metro became county wide and then it was decided that the county should retain ownership even though ST spent way more than the original construction costs in retrofitting for Link and has taken over the debt repayment based on percentage of use. It really doesn&#039;t make sense for ST to own it. It&#039;s public property and the ownership should be the directly elected government of King County. After Link is complete ST could disappear or be folded into some other agency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
The tunnel ownership and finance is complicated to say the least. I think Oran&#8217;s got it right that it was transferred from City ownership to County ownership when Metro became county wide and then it was decided that the county should retain ownership even though ST spent way more than the original construction costs in retrofitting for Link and has taken over the debt repayment based on percentage of use. It really doesn&#8217;t make sense for ST to own it. It&#8217;s public property and the ownership should be the directly elected government of King County. After Link is complete ST could disappear or be folded into some other agency.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Erik G.</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-93651</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 00:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-93651</guid>
		<description>SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/tran261.shtml

County to give bus tunnel to Sound Transit

Resulting traffic concerns downtown business owners

Wednesday, April 26, 2000

By GEORGE FOSTER
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

When workers convert the downtown bus tunnel to light rail, it will mean substantial changes in the way cars, trucks and buses get around in the central business core.

Yesterday, elected officials from King County and Seattle announced that that the county would give Sound Transit the 1.3-mile downtown tunnel so that it could make the conversion.

As part of that announcement, King County Executive Ron Sims said the county would try to minimize disruptions when work begins in 2004.

But business owners have raised concerns about the dual-powered, 60-foot coaches that would be driving on downtown streets once the tunnel is permanently closed to buses.

Although planners originally thought that some buses would have to be shifted to surface streets, they later said that sharing the tunnel with King County&#039;s Metro buses would not work.

&quot;We&#039;re furious,&quot; said Kate Joncas, president of the Downtown Seattle Association. &quot;We went through three years of very difficult construction . . . with the promise that we would be able to remove some of the buses from downtown streets.&quot;

(Rest at: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/tran261.shtml  )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER<br />
<a href="http://www.seattlepi.com/local/tran261.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.seattlepi.com/local/tran261.shtml</a></p>
<p>County to give bus tunnel to Sound Transit</p>
<p>Resulting traffic concerns downtown business owners</p>
<p>Wednesday, April 26, 2000</p>
<p>By GEORGE FOSTER<br />
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER</p>
<p>When workers convert the downtown bus tunnel to light rail, it will mean substantial changes in the way cars, trucks and buses get around in the central business core.</p>
<p>Yesterday, elected officials from King County and Seattle announced that that the county would give Sound Transit the 1.3-mile downtown tunnel so that it could make the conversion.</p>
<p>As part of that announcement, King County Executive Ron Sims said the county would try to minimize disruptions when work begins in 2004.</p>
<p>But business owners have raised concerns about the dual-powered, 60-foot coaches that would be driving on downtown streets once the tunnel is permanently closed to buses.</p>
<p>Although planners originally thought that some buses would have to be shifted to surface streets, they later said that sharing the tunnel with King County&#8217;s Metro buses would not work.</p>
<p>&#8220;We&#8217;re furious,&#8221; said Kate Joncas, president of the Downtown Seattle Association. &#8220;We went through three years of very difficult construction . . . with the promise that we would be able to remove some of the buses from downtown streets.&#8221;</p>
<p>(Rest at: <a href="http://www.seattlepi.com/local/tran261.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.seattlepi.com/local/tran261.shtml</a>  )<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Erik G.</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-93649</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 00:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-93649</guid>
		<description>Matt the Engineer:

There have been at least two cases of private vehicles using the bus tunnel.  One was a lost woman in a car, the other was a truck who thought he was &quot;transiting&quot; the city and so followed the &quot;Transit Only&quot; signage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Matt the Engineer:</p>
<p>There have been at least two cases of private vehicles using the bus tunnel.  One was a lost woman in a car, the other was a truck who thought he was &#8220;transiting&#8221; the city and so followed the &#8220;Transit Only&#8221; signage.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-93560</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 22:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-93560</guid>
		<description>Sherwin, he&#039;s right. After searching the County legislative database I found a new agreement that superseded the previous one in 2002. I posted it right after my other comment. Oh and the Wikipedia article needs to be corrected also. I was the one who wrote that section.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Sherwin, he&#8217;s right. After searching the County legislative database I found a new agreement that superseded the previous one in 2002. I posted it right after my other comment. Oh and the Wikipedia article needs to be corrected also. I was the one who wrote that section.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Sherwin Lee</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-93551</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherwin Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 21:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-93551</guid>
		<description>Let, please check your facts before telling me I&#039;m wrong.  As Oran already posted, the County transferred ownership of the DSTT to Sound Transit so a light-rail retrofit could be made.  It&#039;s one of many Sound Transit-owned Metro-operated facilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Let, please check your facts before telling me I&#8217;m wrong.  As Oran already posted, the County transferred ownership of the DSTT to Sound Transit so a light-rail retrofit could be made.  It&#8217;s one of many Sound Transit-owned Metro-operated facilities.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Skehan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-93514</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Skehan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-93514</guid>
		<description>ACTUALLY, THE PEOPLE OWN THE TUNNEL.  We pay ST, Metro, and SDOT to manage things well.  We elect their bosses.  Any fault, is our own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
ACTUALLY, THE PEOPLE OWN THE TUNNEL.  We pay ST, Metro, and SDOT to manage things well.  We elect their bosses.  Any fault, is our own.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-93511</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-93511</guid>
		<description>[deleted, off-topic]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[deleted, off-topic]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Skehan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-93510</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Skehan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-93510</guid>
		<description>I think they are currently mandated to do just that!  I know they talk a lot, but agreements with smily faces don&#039;t fall off the trees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I think they are currently mandated to do just that!  I know they talk a lot, but agreements with smily faces don&#8217;t fall off the trees.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-93503</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-93503</guid>
		<description>Anadakos,

There are is a big difference between Sound transit and Portland&#039;s Metro. Sound transit is a transit agency and Portland&#039;s Metro is a planing organization, which deals with way more then just transit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Anadakos,</p>
<p>There are is a big difference between Sound transit and Portland&#8217;s Metro. Sound transit is a transit agency and Portland&#8217;s Metro is a planing organization, which deals with way more then just transit.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Orr</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-93501</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Orr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-93501</guid>
		<description>[deleted, off-topic]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[deleted, off-topic]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: TomK</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-93499</link>
		<dc:creator>TomK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-93499</guid>
		<description>The original 2000 agreement for ownership of the tunnel to transfer to ST was made when on the assumption that the initial Link segment would go from SeaTac to Northgate, with no more buses in the tunnel.  Since the line was shortened and there is joint bus/rail operations for the time being, I believe the transfer of ownership to ST will be delayed until the line to UW opens and the buses are removed.  So technically, the county still owns the tunnel at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
The original 2000 agreement for ownership of the tunnel to transfer to ST was made when on the assumption that the initial Link segment would go from SeaTac to Northgate, with no more buses in the tunnel.  Since the line was shortened and there is joint bus/rail operations for the time being, I believe the transfer of ownership to ST will be delayed until the line to UW opens and the buses are removed.  So technically, the county still owns the tunnel at this point.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Orr</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/extended-new-years-eve-service/#comment-93498</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Orr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11052#comment-93498</guid>
		<description>10 trains per hour per direction? So we&#039;re limited to 6-minute headways? I hope that can be changed when the buses leave the tunnel.</description>
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10 trains per hour per direction? So we&#8217;re limited to 6-minute headways? I hope that can be changed when the buses leave the tunnel.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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