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	<title>Comments on: Link Light Rail in the North American Context</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-97548</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 03:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-97548</guid>
		<description>Yes, you&#039;re quite right -- in the long run, you need multiple systems running at different speeds and stop spacings.

NYC has this in profusion, with local buses, limited-stop buses, local subways, express subway trains, commuter railroads, express commuter rail runs, Amtrak &quot;locals&quot;, and Amtrak expresses.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Yes, you&#8217;re quite right &#8212; in the long run, you need multiple systems running at different speeds and stop spacings.</p>
<p>NYC has this in profusion, with local buses, limited-stop buses, local subways, express subway trains, commuter railroads, express commuter rail runs, Amtrak &#8220;locals&#8221;, and Amtrak expresses&#8230;..<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-97547</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 03:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-97547</guid>
		<description>I believe San Jose&#039;s VTA is still the nation&#039;s best example of how NOT to build light rail.  Seattle isn&#039;t even in the running.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I believe San Jose&#8217;s VTA is still the nation&#8217;s best example of how NOT to build light rail.  Seattle isn&#8217;t even in the running.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-97546</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 03:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-97546</guid>
		<description>Has a new station ever been added to a *bored* tunnel?

NYC added them to tunnels every so often, but those were cut-and-cover (so, lift off the cover, widen, put the cover back on).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Has a new station ever been added to a *bored* tunnel?</p>
<p>NYC added them to tunnels every so often, but those were cut-and-cover (so, lift off the cover, widen, put the cover back on).<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-97545</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 03:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-97545</guid>
		<description>Also, NYC has express trains.  That means you need to throw them out as a data point: they have *both* closely-spaced stops and low speeds (on the local trains) *and* widely-spaced stops and high speeds (on the express trains).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Also, NYC has express trains.  That means you need to throw them out as a data point: they have *both* closely-spaced stops and low speeds (on the local trains) *and* widely-spaced stops and high speeds (on the express trains).<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94914</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 02:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94914</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll take the bait - what the heck.

That might be interesting - if it were true.  While the cost to take the link to some places outside the downtown core (i.e. Tukwila, Seatac) is .25 cheaper than the Metro peak fare, Metro remains fare-free in the downtown area (while you get charged $1.75 to ride the Link), Senior/Disabled fares are .25 more; youth fares TWICE AS MUCH as Metro&#039;s .75, and you can still take an off-peak bus for a lower fare than link to/from similar locations along the Link line.

So - problem with your comment &quot;Metro fare increases have made it cost more than link. . .in all places at Rush hour&quot; is flat out untrue, and &quot;some places at all hours&quot; only partially so.

Speaking of the word &quot;so&quot; - um - - SO?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I&#8217;ll take the bait &#8211; what the heck.</p>
<p>That might be interesting &#8211; if it were true.  While the cost to take the link to some places outside the downtown core (i.e. Tukwila, Seatac) is .25 cheaper than the Metro peak fare, Metro remains fare-free in the downtown area (while you get charged $1.75 to ride the Link), Senior/Disabled fares are .25 more; youth fares TWICE AS MUCH as Metro&#8217;s .75, and you can still take an off-peak bus for a lower fare than link to/from similar locations along the Link line.</p>
<p>So &#8211; problem with your comment &#8220;Metro fare increases have made it cost more than link. . .in all places at Rush hour&#8221; is flat out untrue, and &#8220;some places at all hours&#8221; only partially so.</p>
<p>Speaking of the word &#8220;so&#8221; &#8211; um &#8211; - SO?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: I have trouble trusting Seattleites who claim to know good transit</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94894</link>
		<dc:creator>I have trouble trusting Seattleites who claim to know good transit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 01:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94894</guid>
		<description>Now that the latest round of Metro fare increases have made it cost MORE THAN LINK (in all places at rush hour and some places at all hours), people living its corridor are not &quot;resistant to change,&quot; but rather INSANE to keep taking the horrific buses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Now that the latest round of Metro fare increases have made it cost MORE THAN LINK (in all places at rush hour and some places at all hours), people living its corridor are not &#8220;resistant to change,&#8221; but rather INSANE to keep taking the horrific buses.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94661</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 01:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94661</guid>
		<description>[deleted, off-topic]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[deleted, off-topic]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94655</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 01:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94655</guid>
		<description>[deleted, off-topic]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[deleted, off-topic]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Blue Swan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94648</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue Swan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94648</guid>
		<description>[deleted, off-topic]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[deleted, off-topic]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Last Week&#8217;s Highlights - Seattle Transit Blog</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94495</link>
		<dc:creator>Last Week&#8217;s Highlights - Seattle Transit Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 14:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94495</guid>
		<description>[...] The tradeoff between operating speed and stop separation: which gets more riders? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
[...] The tradeoff between operating speed and stop separation: which gets more riders? [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94271</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94271</guid>
		<description>Well, Westlake Park is hardly the only place in the city where buses and trucks regularly strike tree branches hanging over the road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Well, Westlake Park is hardly the only place in the city where buses and trucks regularly strike tree branches hanging over the road.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Seattle Greg</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94218</link>
		<dc:creator>Seattle Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94218</guid>
		<description>Those Double Deckers are a nice ride, but ever watch what happens to trees at Westlake Park when they roll by?  They whack every branch. I noticed a few weeks back that they have added a safety bar on the door side second level to hit the branches before the window does... but still has some &quot;striking issues&quot;...

As to the MCI&#039;s... those are charter/parlor style coaches built for longer runs... The are designed for long haul use and built with longevity in mind (the earlier model, the MC 9, was touted as the first million mile coach).  The air ride beats even the rail ride in my book.  

Most all charter/parlor coaches are challenged  by the ADA issue of getting wheeled device to the level above the bins. Lifts generally are mid coach, or aft, and are stowed in the bin area below, which means fold out time to open the lift out to the sidewalk, then use, then refold.  Even the old SF transit style (built in elevator midship) has limits (widths and weight).  As wheeled devices get bigger, heavier and wider, its a real challenge for lift builders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Those Double Deckers are a nice ride, but ever watch what happens to trees at Westlake Park when they roll by?  They whack every branch. I noticed a few weeks back that they have added a safety bar on the door side second level to hit the branches before the window does&#8230; but still has some &#8220;striking issues&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>As to the MCI&#8217;s&#8230; those are charter/parlor style coaches built for longer runs&#8230; The are designed for long haul use and built with longevity in mind (the earlier model, the MC 9, was touted as the first million mile coach).  The air ride beats even the rail ride in my book.  </p>
<p>Most all charter/parlor coaches are challenged  by the ADA issue of getting wheeled device to the level above the bins. Lifts generally are mid coach, or aft, and are stowed in the bin area below, which means fold out time to open the lift out to the sidewalk, then use, then refold.  Even the old SF transit style (built in elevator midship) has limits (widths and weight).  As wheeled devices get bigger, heavier and wider, its a real challenge for lift builders.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94154</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 04:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94154</guid>
		<description>Community Transit received very positive customer and operator feedback about the double-deck buses so they decided to order 23 of them, to arrive in the middle of this year and replace their older 60&#039; coaches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Community Transit received very positive customer and operator feedback about the double-deck buses so they decided to order 23 of them, to arrive in the middle of this year and replace their older 60&#8242; coaches.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94153</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 03:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94153</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;I’ll agree with you about the MCI coaches, especially since they have a number of other problems that make them not really suitable for use as transit coaches.&lt;/b&gt;

All that wasted space where luggage is supposed to go comes to mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
<b>I’ll agree with you about the MCI coaches, especially since they have a number of other problems that make them not really suitable for use as transit coaches.</b></p>
<p>All that wasted space where luggage is supposed to go comes to mind.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94142</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 02:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94142</guid>
		<description>The double-deckers don&#039;t have the same issues as the MCI coaches AFAIK. The double-deckers are low-floor and allow wheelchair loading through the front doors using a flip-out ramp.

True the mobility limited can&#039;t really access the upper deck, but the same could be said for the rear seating area of a low floor coach.

I&#039;ll agree with you about the MCI coaches, especially since they have a number of other problems that make them not really suitable for use as transit coaches.

At this point the best replacement would likely be some New Flyer 60&#039; coaches. I&#039;m not sure if paying extra for the hybrid option makes sense for long routes on the freeway. Similarly I&#039;m not sure if the BRT models as ordered for SWIFT or RapidRide have any real advantages over the standard LFA models.

Let me also say I don&#039;t think 40&#039; LF coaches work well at all for ST Express service. The ones I&#039;ve been on seem very cramped, uncomfortable and awkwardly laid out.</description>
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The double-deckers don&#8217;t have the same issues as the MCI coaches AFAIK. The double-deckers are low-floor and allow wheelchair loading through the front doors using a flip-out ramp.</p>
<p>True the mobility limited can&#8217;t really access the upper deck, but the same could be said for the rear seating area of a low floor coach.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll agree with you about the MCI coaches, especially since they have a number of other problems that make them not really suitable for use as transit coaches.</p>
<p>At this point the best replacement would likely be some New Flyer 60&#8242; coaches. I&#8217;m not sure if paying extra for the hybrid option makes sense for long routes on the freeway. Similarly I&#8217;m not sure if the BRT models as ordered for SWIFT or RapidRide have any real advantages over the standard LFA models.</p>
<p>Let me also say I don&#8217;t think 40&#8242; LF coaches work well at all for ST Express service. The ones I&#8217;ve been on seem very cramped, uncomfortable and awkwardly laid out.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Welch</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94137</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 02:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94137</guid>
		<description>Not terribly, as most of them require a pretty clunky procedure for boarding wheelchairs from the side of the coach, rather than from the front loading doors like everyone else.

For that reason alone - I don&#039;t believe that they - or the double-deckers - should be run at all, but again that&#039;s my 20 year prior career as a nonprofit social worker speaking.</description>
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Not terribly, as most of them require a pretty clunky procedure for boarding wheelchairs from the side of the coach, rather than from the front loading doors like everyone else.</p>
<p>For that reason alone &#8211; I don&#8217;t believe that they &#8211; or the double-deckers &#8211; should be run at all, but again that&#8217;s my 20 year prior career as a nonprofit social worker speaking.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94135</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 02:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94135</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t sound like the MCI coaches are terribly ADA friendly. I&#039;ll say the Sound Transit Gilligs with reclining seats are about as comfortable as the MCI coaches without the access issues for passengers with mobility challenges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Doesn&#8217;t sound like the MCI coaches are terribly ADA friendly. I&#8217;ll say the Sound Transit Gilligs with reclining seats are about as comfortable as the MCI coaches without the access issues for passengers with mobility challenges.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Oran Viriyincy</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94134</link>
		<dc:creator>Oran Viriyincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 02:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94134</guid>
		<description>Yeah, except that point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Yeah, except that point.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94131</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 02:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94131</guid>
		<description>@Oran, you write &quot;Thank goodness for the MCIs&quot;

Remember: it takes 10 minutes to load me + another 10 minutes to unload me.  That&#039;s if the operator knows what they&#039;re doing when it comes to the lift.

I&#039;ve hated the MCIs ever since I first laid eyes on them</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
@Oran, you write &#8220;Thank goodness for the MCIs&#8221;</p>
<p>Remember: it takes 10 minutes to load me + another 10 minutes to unload me.  That&#8217;s if the operator knows what they&#8217;re doing when it comes to the lift.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve hated the MCIs ever since I first laid eyes on them<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/30/link-light-rail-in-the-north-american-context/#comment-94076</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 19:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11014#comment-94076</guid>
		<description>Actually, I&#039;d say a negative R^2, or any other real number squared, means somebody read the wrong number off of their stats software...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Actually, I&#8217;d say a negative R^2, or any other real number squared, means somebody read the wrong number off of their stats software&#8230;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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