Minor or Boren alignment please.

Gotta ask about the NIMBY-colored elephant in the room: how the fawk are you going to get the folks on 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th to allow the zoning changes required to justify a streetcar-line-sized jump in retail density …next to all those old be-front-lawned craftsman homes???

Ain’t going to happen soon, and will require a 15-25 year plan of buying houses, converting to townhomes, and changing the entire character of squire park / cherry hill / the east half of the 12th avenue neighborhood.

Streetcars are a bit more permanent so align it accordingly. “100 year plan” style. How were SF streetcars planned? How were Seattle’s? How were NYC MTA alignments planned?
4 easy basics that come to mind: Aim at density, connect major institutions that served the greatest number of the public, reduce traffic by trying to replace common & frequent commutes, connect with other transit modes and routes.

define “SU folks”, please? Transient (2 to 4 year) student population? The ones who are mainly housed on-campus in the numerous dorms and nearby SU-owed residential units??
Or the professors/staff of SU? SU’s population (aka customers and workers) doesn’t really rank quite as highly as ‘community members’/stakeholders as FH residents and business owners.

The purpose of the streetcar is highly debated, but the law lays it clear: it’s to connect first hill to the ST light rail. The use/ridership/need of these ‘SU folks’ to get to, say, UW stadium or Columbia city is suspect compared the need of the 7000+ residents of first hill and x number of patients, customers and staff to get on and off the real First Hill area (moreorless: I-5 to broadway, union to yesler) daily.
Thousands of washington voters backed ST so we could take cars off the street, encourage transit as a culture rather than SOVs, and hold back damage needless to the environment. Economic development on 12th (aka money in the construction industries’ pockets + yet another Quiznos) and college convenience or support(SU isn’t suffering from low enrollment by any means) aren’t part of the regional-transport-focused ST equation, so they therefore must not be part of the streetcar equation.

Rather than ‘walk sheds’ & ’3 blocks is too far VS no it isnt’ debates and ‘potential development’ or ‘socio-economic justice’ BS, will someone please work up a map that shows where SOV vehicle density/congestion is currently worst (AND maybe also where current ped use is least), and then tune an alignment to those facts?

(Oh wait, the federal census already did partially do that: and found FH has longer transit and car commute times than the 12th Avenue neighborhood… Despite the disparity in bus routes. Huh. Could it be the fact First Hill is one of the densest zoned neighborhoods? THE most densely-zoned residential neighborhood in the city? Perhaps a factor is the proliferation of parking lots and garages ENCOURAGING car use for trips to St James, or Virginia Mason, or Harborview?)
Can’t help but think the folks charging 20+ bucks a day at the hospital garages are perhaps funding the pro-12th alignment campaign…

And there’s more to the neighborhoods than the hospitals…several of which would have had far longer walks from the light rail station that was to be built in the first place.

Walking twice as far is hardly noticeable? Maybe in bizzaroworld.

I don’t mind walking, but certainly wouldn’t want to include a 30 minute walk as part of my daily commute. A 15 minute walk is about the max that most people are willing to do as part of a transit trip, and 5 or 10 minutes is more realistic for a lot of people.

And it’s 4 blocks. So, you should be fine. I walk it everyday.

Your last paragraph says what I’ve been trying to say, but in a much better way. I would love to be able to go all the way to the Harvard Exit theatre on the streetcar, go across the street to Dilletante for dessert, and then downtown, all on the streetcar.

If they’re interested in spurring development, why not consider that there are literally hundreds of new, empty residential units & lots of empty commercial space over there? Last time I checked, having lots of empty units in the neighborhood does not inspire investors to start breaking ground on developments a few blocks away.

Also, perception is very important: Seeing a train running up & down the entire length of Broadway adds to the visibility of the streetcar, and reminds folks, “Hey! I can be anywhere along Broadway and take the streetcar to & from Pioneer Square!”. This is part of the reason that a 12th Ave loop would be a disaster: it would not create enough of a visible, logical, easily conceptualized transit system.

Also, I do live in that area (10th and Harrison) and while I’d love to see a streetcar along Broadway, is Roy from Denny really a “hike”? It’s pretty much a level walk and I can’t imagine many folks waiting for the streetcar to go one stop. Now, Roy to Pike-Pine, I can see.