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	<title>Comments on: Sunday Open Thread: Don&#8217;t Try this at Home</title>
	<atom:link href="http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Joshua Kelley</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-103716</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Kelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-103716</guid>
		<description>My sample? I just used character codes for the less-than/greater-than signs. That&#039;s &lt; and &gt;

I&#039;m not sure why it turned them into smart quotes...I used regular quotes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
My sample? I just used character codes for the less-than/greater-than signs. That&#8217;s &amp;lt; and &amp;gt;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure why it turned them into smart quotes&#8230;I used regular quotes.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102313</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 05:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102313</guid>
		<description>&quot;Wide spacing lets you make longer trips on transit that you’d otherwise need a car for&quot;

This is where I have a problem. When you have stations far apart, long distance trips take a shorter amount of time because trains don&#039;t have to stop as much. This can encourage people to live far away from where they work.

I&#039;d like to add that Sound Transit can help break our auto dependency by not building so many park and rides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
&#8220;Wide spacing lets you make longer trips on transit that you’d otherwise need a car for&#8221;</p>
<p>This is where I have a problem. When you have stations far apart, long distance trips take a shorter amount of time because trains don&#8217;t have to stop as much. This can encourage people to live far away from where they work.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to add that Sound Transit can help break our auto dependency by not building so many park and rides.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Kaleci</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102300</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaleci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102300</guid>
		<description>I was able to pick up my schedules today.

I think Sound Transit had their schedules out a week ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I was able to pick up my schedules today.</p>
<p>I think Sound Transit had their schedules out a week ago.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Kaleci</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102294</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaleci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 03:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102294</guid>
		<description>Actually, I think they were replaced with some MCI&#039;s and the latest Gillig purchase (pink lights).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Actually, I think they were replaced with some MCI&#8217;s and the latest Gillig purchase (pink lights).<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Paul Johnson</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102284</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102284</guid>
		<description>Along those same lines:  Properly designed HTML and CSS will degrade nicely to older browsers and small screens or paper without having to write a separate print or mobile version.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Along those same lines:  Properly designed HTML and CSS will degrade nicely to older browsers and small screens or paper without having to write a separate print or mobile version.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102283</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102283</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t listen to that guy.  You absolutely do not need to use spell check here.  This is just a blog&#039;s comment section, not a doctoral thesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Don&#8217;t listen to that guy.  You absolutely do not need to use spell check here.  This is just a blog&#8217;s comment section, not a doctoral thesis.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mickymse</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102250</link>
		<dc:creator>Mickymse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102250</guid>
		<description>I can often bitch about the terrible public outreach of the local transit agencies (mostly due to their ever smaller budgets than actual incompetence)... but I just don&#039;t get this one RennDawg.

If you&#039;re a regular, expert commuter you already know changes are coming -- and you know when the service changes occur.

If you&#039;re a casual user, you don&#039;t want to see these changes weeks in advance -- because that would just confuse the hell out of you. On the other hand, if you&#039;re planning ahead and call or go online to create your schedule, these time and routes changes are already changed for future planning.

So I don&#039;t really understand why you&#039;re complaining that the new schedules aren&#039;t printed sooner, since I don&#039;t expect that would help these theoretical riders you&#039;re so concerned about.

And, on a side note to another comment you made up above. How is it less affordable for people to ride Link than a bus? If they use ORCA, they get a full transfer now onto Link from the bus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I can often bitch about the terrible public outreach of the local transit agencies (mostly due to their ever smaller budgets than actual incompetence)&#8230; but I just don&#8217;t get this one RennDawg.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re a regular, expert commuter you already know changes are coming &#8212; and you know when the service changes occur.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re a casual user, you don&#8217;t want to see these changes weeks in advance &#8212; because that would just confuse the hell out of you. On the other hand, if you&#8217;re planning ahead and call or go online to create your schedule, these time and routes changes are already changed for future planning.</p>
<p>So I don&#8217;t really understand why you&#8217;re complaining that the new schedules aren&#8217;t printed sooner, since I don&#8217;t expect that would help these theoretical riders you&#8217;re so concerned about.</p>
<p>And, on a side note to another comment you made up above. How is it less affordable for people to ride Link than a bus? If they use ORCA, they get a full transfer now onto Link from the bus.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mickymse</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102246</link>
		<dc:creator>Mickymse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102246</guid>
		<description>AND they repeatedly publicized to ticketholders coming from out of town that we could buy special passes ahead of time for the length of the competition!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
AND they repeatedly publicized to ticketholders coming from out of town that we could buy special passes ahead of time for the length of the competition!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chetan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102237</link>
		<dc:creator>Chetan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102237</guid>
		<description>There is no point in duplicating service. Those bus hours are better somewhere else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
There is no point in duplicating service. Those bus hours are better somewhere else.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102193</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102193</guid>
		<description>See my response &lt;a href=&quot;http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102192&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;above&lt;/a&gt;.

And sure, they&#039;re &quot;massive&quot; changes.  &lt;b&gt;But how many routes does the average rider use?&lt;/b&gt;  1?  2?  3?

Those that do ride &lt;i&gt;many&lt;/i&gt; routes are probably well aware that at least one of  them will change and are aware of how to find out about these changes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
See my response <a href="http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102192" rel="nofollow">above</a>.</p>
<p>And sure, they&#8217;re &#8220;massive&#8221; changes.  <b>But how many routes does the average rider use?</b>  1?  2?  3?</p>
<p>Those that do ride <i>many</i> routes are probably well aware that at least one of  them will change and are aware of how to find out about these changes.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102192</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102192</guid>
		<description>No, it is not a competition.  It is a duplication.

As to why it takes so long for Metro to get rider alerts out, I can&#039;t address that.  I don&#039;t work for Metro.  But you&#039;re getting overly alarmist.  &quot;Routes changing where there going. It is less than a week away. The real problem is every one knew that this was coming and the new schedules will not be issued until Thursday.&quot;  I&#039;m not really sure what that means, but if I replace &quot;there&quot; with &quot;they&#039;re&quot; it makes a little bit more sense.  To answer that concern:
a) The 140 is changing its routing.  Rider alerts were probably posted last week &lt;b&gt;at the stops&lt;/b&gt;.  I saw a bunch of them on Friday.  And don&#039;t act like this is the first time you&#039;ve heard about it changing.  I&#039;ll let &lt;a href=&quot;http://metro.kingcounty.gov/up/sc/plans/2009/012009-swkc.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this page&lt;/a&gt; do the explaining for me.
b) The 564/565 are becoming the 566.  It won&#039;t affect many users (that&#039;s why it&#039;s changing), and even so I&#039;m pretty sure I saw rider alert signs last Thursday at Sumner when I caught the 564.
c) Everything at SeaTac Airport Bay 1 will now move to the stops outside the SeaTac/Airport Link station.  Don&#039;t even try to tell me this is bad.  Benefits: it cut at least 5 minutes off each trip, it provides a direct link to get downtown.  Catch the 180 from Auburn, transfer to Link downtown.  Auburn doesn&#039;t have much direct downtown service besides the 152 and Sounder.  Disadvantage: it&#039;s &lt;i&gt;different&lt;/i&gt; from before.  Many people, such as yourself, want things to stay the way they are forever and will whine incessantly about it.  Change will happen.  Accept it.  Oh, and some people might have to walk a bit further to the stop.  It&#039;s an airport, OK?  You have to walk there.
d) 5 routes are moving to the tunnel.  But those are all routes that operate in North Seattle, so you have no reason to complain about them.  To further underscore that point, I&#039;ll let you know that rider alerts were posted last week at the stops.  Which means riders have about a week and a half to adjust.
e) About 40 routes have trip reductions.  Most of the time these reductions are combining the two least-used trips into one that comes halfway between each.  I&#039;ll agree that this will inconvenience some people.  But as mentioned about 500 times already, &lt;b&gt;Metro has no money&lt;/b&gt; and needs to cut costs somehow.  Be thankful it&#039;s only 40 routes.


Yes, I&#039;ll agree that Metro could get it service change information out faster.  You&#039;re brining this up two posts below here, and I hope I don&#039;t confuse anyone by answering it here.  Anyway, the delay is probably delayed due to two things:
1) It takes time to figure out what needs to be changed.  Once that&#039;s done, the information needs to be compiled and the service alert created.  Then that goes to press, and a few days (or weeks) later Metro gets a few boxes of those brochures and can begin distributing them.  That&#039;s why information shows up online faster than offline.  Sound Transit can do this faster because they have about 90% fewer routes than Metro does.
2) If we publish information a month in advance, you&#039;re going to confuse some people about which information is right for the current day.  I could come up with about five examples, but I&#039;ll stick with just one because I&#039;m tired of responding to this BS.  So the example is that Metro has everything published on January 1.  On Jan 1 both red and purple timetables are available.  A customer grabs a red timetable, unaware of the difference between the two.  If you&#039;ve ever worked with the public, you know that people only read what they want to, and many people won&#039;t look at the text on the front stating what dates the timetable is valid.  And a big sign near the timetables would go unnoticed.  After reading the timetable and figuring out what time the bus is coming (which is actually what time it will be coming 5 weeks from then) the customer waits at a stop.  Due to the schedule being different and possibly other factors, the bus is delayed many minutes.  When it finally arrives, a cold and irratated passenger boards the bus and takes their anger out on the operator.  Definitely not good.  Could be verbal or physical abuse, but not good at all.  Let&#039;s keep our timing the way it is, though I wouldn&#039;t mind if it was advanced a half week or so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
No, it is not a competition.  It is a duplication.</p>
<p>As to why it takes so long for Metro to get rider alerts out, I can&#8217;t address that.  I don&#8217;t work for Metro.  But you&#8217;re getting overly alarmist.  &#8220;Routes changing where there going. It is less than a week away. The real problem is every one knew that this was coming and the new schedules will not be issued until Thursday.&#8221;  I&#8217;m not really sure what that means, but if I replace &#8220;there&#8221; with &#8220;they&#8217;re&#8221; it makes a little bit more sense.  To answer that concern:<br />
a) The 140 is changing its routing.  Rider alerts were probably posted last week <b>at the stops</b>.  I saw a bunch of them on Friday.  And don&#8217;t act like this is the first time you&#8217;ve heard about it changing.  I&#8217;ll let <a href="http://metro.kingcounty.gov/up/sc/plans/2009/012009-swkc.html" rel="nofollow">this page</a> do the explaining for me.<br />
b) The 564/565 are becoming the 566.  It won&#8217;t affect many users (that&#8217;s why it&#8217;s changing), and even so I&#8217;m pretty sure I saw rider alert signs last Thursday at Sumner when I caught the 564.<br />
c) Everything at SeaTac Airport Bay 1 will now move to the stops outside the SeaTac/Airport Link station.  Don&#8217;t even try to tell me this is bad.  Benefits: it cut at least 5 minutes off each trip, it provides a direct link to get downtown.  Catch the 180 from Auburn, transfer to Link downtown.  Auburn doesn&#8217;t have much direct downtown service besides the 152 and Sounder.  Disadvantage: it&#8217;s <i>different</i> from before.  Many people, such as yourself, want things to stay the way they are forever and will whine incessantly about it.  Change will happen.  Accept it.  Oh, and some people might have to walk a bit further to the stop.  It&#8217;s an airport, OK?  You have to walk there.<br />
d) 5 routes are moving to the tunnel.  But those are all routes that operate in North Seattle, so you have no reason to complain about them.  To further underscore that point, I&#8217;ll let you know that rider alerts were posted last week at the stops.  Which means riders have about a week and a half to adjust.<br />
e) About 40 routes have trip reductions.  Most of the time these reductions are combining the two least-used trips into one that comes halfway between each.  I&#8217;ll agree that this will inconvenience some people.  But as mentioned about 500 times already, <b>Metro has no money</b> and needs to cut costs somehow.  Be thankful it&#8217;s only 40 routes.</p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;ll agree that Metro could get it service change information out faster.  You&#8217;re brining this up two posts below here, and I hope I don&#8217;t confuse anyone by answering it here.  Anyway, the delay is probably delayed due to two things:<br />
1) It takes time to figure out what needs to be changed.  Once that&#8217;s done, the information needs to be compiled and the service alert created.  Then that goes to press, and a few days (or weeks) later Metro gets a few boxes of those brochures and can begin distributing them.  That&#8217;s why information shows up online faster than offline.  Sound Transit can do this faster because they have about 90% fewer routes than Metro does.<br />
2) If we publish information a month in advance, you&#8217;re going to confuse some people about which information is right for the current day.  I could come up with about five examples, but I&#8217;ll stick with just one because I&#8217;m tired of responding to this BS.  So the example is that Metro has everything published on January 1.  On Jan 1 both red and purple timetables are available.  A customer grabs a red timetable, unaware of the difference between the two.  If you&#8217;ve ever worked with the public, you know that people only read what they want to, and many people won&#8217;t look at the text on the front stating what dates the timetable is valid.  And a big sign near the timetables would go unnoticed.  After reading the timetable and figuring out what time the bus is coming (which is actually what time it will be coming 5 weeks from then) the customer waits at a stop.  Due to the schedule being different and possibly other factors, the bus is delayed many minutes.  When it finally arrives, a cold and irratated passenger boards the bus and takes their anger out on the operator.  Definitely not good.  Could be verbal or physical abuse, but not good at all.  Let&#8217;s keep our timing the way it is, though I wouldn&#8217;t mind if it was advanced a half week or so.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102178</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102178</guid>
		<description>He used &quot;smart quotes&quot; instead of normal quotes.  The WP text parser didn&#039;t recognize them so it just threw it in as a regular link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
He used &#8220;smart quotes&#8221; instead of normal quotes.  The WP text parser didn&#8217;t recognize them so it just threw it in as a regular link.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: ericn</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102157</link>
		<dc:creator>ericn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102157</guid>
		<description>Rider alerts are posted on buses today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Rider alerts are posted on buses today.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: David in Burien</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102134</link>
		<dc:creator>David in Burien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 16:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102134</guid>
		<description>Alex, I&#039;ve wondered this since 1994 when I started working in Olympia.  I&#039;m on one of those Intercity vanpools which I hate for several reasons, not the least of which is its utter inflexibility.  I coach youth sports and my son plays two sports and take drum lessons so most of the year, I can&#039;t even ride with my vanpool.  But it&#039;s there and it takes six people out of their cars (when I ride it--five most of the time).  The bus (or ideally a pair of Sounder runs) would better fit my professional life and lifestyle.  But the last 603 north (which I can walk to from my office) to Lakewood runs around 3PM and I still wouldn&#039;t get home in time to grab my kid and get to baseball practice.  These are the real life concerns of a wannabe good-transit citizen, with real life commitments not matched by regional transit capacity, but the agencies just haven&#039;t responded (I&#039;ll never forgive Thurston County for avoiding participation in the RTA in the 1990&#039;s).  That&#039;s also why I get excited here in the comments everytime we discuss growth of light rail (and other modes) in the context of regional *system* rather than mere &quot;lines&quot; (to answer a troll from several days ago).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Alex, I&#8217;ve wondered this since 1994 when I started working in Olympia.  I&#8217;m on one of those Intercity vanpools which I hate for several reasons, not the least of which is its utter inflexibility.  I coach youth sports and my son plays two sports and take drum lessons so most of the year, I can&#8217;t even ride with my vanpool.  But it&#8217;s there and it takes six people out of their cars (when I ride it&#8211;five most of the time).  The bus (or ideally a pair of Sounder runs) would better fit my professional life and lifestyle.  But the last 603 north (which I can walk to from my office) to Lakewood runs around 3PM and I still wouldn&#8217;t get home in time to grab my kid and get to baseball practice.  These are the real life concerns of a wannabe good-transit citizen, with real life commitments not matched by regional transit capacity, but the agencies just haven&#8217;t responded (I&#8217;ll never forgive Thurston County for avoiding participation in the RTA in the 1990&#8242;s).  That&#8217;s also why I get excited here in the comments everytime we discuss growth of light rail (and other modes) in the context of regional *system* rather than mere &#8220;lines&#8221; (to answer a troll from several days ago).<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102120</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102120</guid>
		<description>Let me vote a very loud NO! I hated that every time I hit a link in my RSS reader I&#039;d get the mobile version when reading STB on my iPhone. I rather strongly prefer the &quot;normal&quot; view of STB even on the iPhone.

I&#039;d have no problem with it if you had to go to a special URL to get the mobile version of the site and the site view didn&#039;t default to the mobile view whenever you hit the site from a mobile device.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Let me vote a very loud NO! I hated that every time I hit a link in my RSS reader I&#8217;d get the mobile version when reading STB on my iPhone. I rather strongly prefer the &#8220;normal&#8221; view of STB even on the iPhone.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d have no problem with it if you had to go to a special URL to get the mobile version of the site and the site view didn&#8217;t default to the mobile view whenever you hit the site from a mobile device.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102108</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102108</guid>
		<description>When there was a streetcar between Seattle and Tacoma, it did promote clusters of walkable density around its stops.  

Some of that can still be seen nearly a hundred years after the Interurban stopped running, in densely-platted neighborhoods surrounded by &quot;modern&quot; quarter-acre car suburbs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
When there was a streetcar between Seattle and Tacoma, it did promote clusters of walkable density around its stops.  </p>
<p>Some of that can still be seen nearly a hundred years after the Interurban stopped running, in densely-platted neighborhoods surrounded by &#8220;modern&#8221; quarter-acre car suburbs.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: serial catowner</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102105</link>
		<dc:creator>serial catowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102105</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Josh got it exactly right.  I couldn&#039;t figure out how to do that without having it just turn into a hot link.  Still don&#039;t know how Josh did that, but it&#039;s right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Yeah, Josh got it exactly right.  I couldn&#8217;t figure out how to do that without having it just turn into a hot link.  Still don&#8217;t know how Josh did that, but it&#8217;s right.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Anc</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102091</link>
		<dc:creator>Anc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102091</guid>
		<description>I think there are two misunderstandings that are confusing some people.
 
1)  Any growth in population outside the city (aka the suburbs) is &#039;sprawl.&#039;  This is incorrect.  You need only look at one of the first &#039;streetcar suburbs&#039; a city originally named Breuckelen, now known as Brooklyn.  While it experienced most of it&#039;s growth as a suburb of New York City, I think you would have a hard time calling it sprawl.
  
2)  That the rail construction (or in the case of Sounder,  increased usage) is  happening in a vacuum.  As much as I and many others would like to turn back the clock on the last half a century of autocentric developement, we can&#039;t.  These sprawling suburbs already exist.  It&#039;s not like Link is bulldozing fields and forest to build stations outside of the Seattle Metro Area.  Instead it is connecting already built areas to the core.  The hope is that this will help guide/confine future growth to these already existing areas and not just continue out, out, out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I think there are two misunderstandings that are confusing some people.</p>
<p>1)  Any growth in population outside the city (aka the suburbs) is &#8216;sprawl.&#8217;  This is incorrect.  You need only look at one of the first &#8216;streetcar suburbs&#8217; a city originally named Breuckelen, now known as Brooklyn.  While it experienced most of it&#8217;s growth as a suburb of New York City, I think you would have a hard time calling it sprawl.</p>
<p>2)  That the rail construction (or in the case of Sounder,  increased usage) is  happening in a vacuum.  As much as I and many others would like to turn back the clock on the last half a century of autocentric developement, we can&#8217;t.  These sprawling suburbs already exist.  It&#8217;s not like Link is bulldozing fields and forest to build stations outside of the Seattle Metro Area.  Instead it is connecting already built areas to the core.  The hope is that this will help guide/confine future growth to these already existing areas and not just continue out, out, out.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mathew "RennDawg" Renner</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102087</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathew "RennDawg" Renner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102087</guid>
		<description>Now that I think about it, I should have not broughtthe 194 on this blog. It has become a distraction from my main point, that the local transit agencies dod a poor planning job for printing and distrubiting the new schedules. They should have been released to the public weeks ago. Right or wrong  massive changes are less than a week away. They should have done a better job of getting the information out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Now that I think about it, I should have not broughtthe 194 on this blog. It has become a distraction from my main point, that the local transit agencies dod a poor planning job for printing and distrubiting the new schedules. They should have been released to the public weeks ago. Right or wrong  massive changes are less than a week away. They should have done a better job of getting the information out.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mathew "RennDawg" Renner</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/01/31/sunday-open-thread-dont-try-this-at-home/#comment-102085</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathew "RennDawg" Renner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=11926#comment-102085</guid>
		<description>Maybe, but last time I checked this was America and I can fight for what I think is right. Even if most think I am wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Maybe, but last time I checked this was America and I can fight for what I think is right. Even if most think I am wrong.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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