Personally I’d rather see the tiny triangular parks stay (which I rather like) and just traffic calm the surrounding streets to make them more pedestrian-friendly… curb extensions, shorter wait times for pedestrians, widen sidewalks.

I would really suggest getting the Project for Public Spaces to come out to Seattle to help with this project. They are all about creating vibrant people-oriented places.

To route the streetcars along side the old Seattle Times building not only places the run on an incline, but makes the line longer for future extension.

IF your were to route the line alongside Westlake, then cut up over the bus tunnel on Pine to Second or First Avenues, you would have less incline, and easier curves, plus use streets that are already used to flow chokes such as the Pine street mid street bus stop (which could then become modified for streetcar use.)

Any hill traction deals with in Seattle means attempting to start or stop on moisture slick rails more than half the year.

Stoping under the Monorail would be a direct connect to the Tunnel below and the Monorail above. If need be, take it half indoor… the windows there are at street level but the stores are above that. The reason the Monorail built the hefty pillors and squeezed the track was that at the time any change in the facade of the old Fredrick and Nelson store was grounds to re-write the old lease that was based on the price of gold in 1930 or some such. It should never have been pinched to allow future expansion, but thats another topic.

Lastly, I wonder if the folks involved in attempting to turn the old Seattle Times building are aware that all the sidewalks there are hollow underneeth. That was how they used to load all the newsprint into the printing room in the basement. Those huge high roof alcoves were turned into storage (the one I worked with leaked on occasion).

It just seems like such a nice natural sweep to stay on fifth, curve through Westlake, and end up on Pine before heading south. Imagine the line connecting the Market AND Westlake… could add a lot.

Lastly, nice to see the group address the charter bus zone issue. The Westin is one of the busiest hotels in cruise season (May-Sept)and often has up to 5 busses loading at the same time. It will still need that abiltiy.

My rationale for this SLU streetcar line extension is based on need and potential return on the investment. If the line crosses main transit corridors and reaches main commercial destinations, this is the obvious predictor of increased ridership. I base my support for Link extensions through suburbs on the same premise. Link through Capitol Hill to UW are areas already served with transit.

Zed, Seattle doesn’t seem to learn much from Portland. I conclude Seattle’s backwardness is conservative obstructionism.

they never said the project would increase ridership. And you’re pulling ridership numbers out of thin air.

Making buses fareless there increases bus boarding time which can then delay Link trains.

You have it the other way. Putting fares on buses during the day will increase bus dwell time, especially on those routes to Northgate and the U District, making congestion in the tunnel worse because the number of buses far outweigh the number of trains. Those busy bus routes that will be replaced by U Link and North Link, which by the way, you are against.

I use the DSTT everyday between downtown and the U District so I know what I’m talking about.

Some short extension of this sort is do-able

Now tell me how do you pay for this? And what do the adjacent property owners think of the impacts during construction and operation?

Boarding Link in the DSTT is easier and faster than buses. Making buses fareless there increases bus boarding time which can then delay Link trains. The fare strategy doesn’t make sense.

The SLU streetcar extension I’ve described is about 1 mile of single track, 4 station stops and probably a couple new streetcars. Some short extension of this sort is do-able and likely to more than double ridership overnight. Leaving the terminus at Westlake is a mistake. Build the plaza, but it will not increase streetcar ridership, and SDOT knows it.

LINK and ST would have done way better to cut a deal with the Downtown Assoc for any amount of cash.

I think the SLU streetcar will be extended as part of the 1st Ave streetcar project, which is unlikely to happen. Financing it would require a large contribution from benefiting property owners like Vulcan did for SLU.

Link fares are time-based if you pay with ORCA. With ORCA you get a 2-hour transfer good for any direction and any amount of trips for the fare you paid. This is an incentive to get everyone to use ORCA. Disposable, low-cost ORCA cards are being considered for tourists and occasional users.

The reason why Link isn’t free downtown is because fares would’ve been 25¢ higher to subsidize those free trips unless the city kicks in some money like they do for buses. The public comments said they’d rather have a lower fare everywhere than free train rides downtown, as they still can take the bus for free (which comes more frequently than the train anyway). This is documented in the ST board meeting materials.

It seems to me that Seattle’s retailers and hoteliers are segregating upper-class clientelle onto Link and SLU while low income bus riders are refused even the simplest connections. Is this why buses are free in the DSTT and Link LRT not free there? Are Link LRT fares ‘direction-based’ instead of ‘time-based’ to double the cost of all Link trips and thus discourage those who don’t use it for commuting?

A lot of folks realized this before the retail/office tower was built but without the funding and support of Nordstroms, The Bon, and Fredricks dept. store, the park/tunnel/plaza wasn’t going to happen. And the then mayor poo-pooed the whole view thing. Once the building was down though everybody could see for themselves what had been only claimed and by then it was too late to take back the permits and deny the tower.

In another 20 years that tower may come down and then we’ll get another chance at it. So tell your kids about the view, as they’ll be the ones’ to have a chance at putting it back.

It wasn’t a far walk, it just feels odd, because you are left on a busy (auto traffic) corner and not the busy (pedestrain) Westlake park/mall front. A mall at the stop will help, but only if the auto traffic is calmed as well and Retail moves North to give more pedestrains a reason to walk there.

Don’t let the good enuf be an enemy of getting it right.

It’s perfectly adequate for me, I use it every day. It takes a whole 2 minutes to get from the Westlake mezzanine to the streetcar. Extending the streetcar to Westlake park wouldn’t have made the connection any faster, because most of the time is spent getting out of the tunnel. Once you’re out of the tunnel it’s less than a block to the streetcar.

I don’t see how anything you say discredits my video. It’s still a relatively short walk for any user. The worst case is I wait a minute for the elevator and another minute or two to cross the street. The walk between King Street Station and International District Station is about the same distance yet thousands use it every day.

(And while I am defending their actions, I am speaking personally, not as an official rep of any agency)