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	<title>Comments on: An Extra Twenty-five Feet</title>
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	<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/</link>
	<description>Transit in the Greater Seattle Area</description>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107496</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107496</guid>
		<description>One driver of parking requirements are the lenders who provide financing to developers. From what I understand they are reluctant to finance projects with less than
1 space per unit.

As to commercial and retail I&#039;m not sure what the specific City of Seattle requirements in specific areas are, but I do know there is retail space in new construction with no off-street parking provided.

With larger stores like a Target or a supermarket the tenant requirements are often what drives the parking more than the local codes.</description>
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One driver of parking requirements are the lenders who provide financing to developers. From what I understand they are reluctant to finance projects with less than<br />
1 space per unit.</p>
<p>As to commercial and retail I&#8217;m not sure what the specific City of Seattle requirements in specific areas are, but I do know there is retail space in new construction with no off-street parking provided.</p>
<p>With larger stores like a Target or a supermarket the tenant requirements are often what drives the parking more than the local codes.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Matt the Engineer</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107495</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt the Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107495</guid>
		<description>Sounds reasonable.  So at most we&#039;re talking about 2.5x the density for all of 4 blocks.  It hardly seems worth the effort to talk about.</description>
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Sounds reasonable.  So at most we&#8217;re talking about 2.5x the density for all of 4 blocks.  It hardly seems worth the effort to talk about.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Smith</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107487</link>
		<dc:creator>Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107487</guid>
		<description>Also Alexander:  while parking requirements come up over and over again here in public design meetings, parking isn&#039;t always mandated by the city :  if a developer wants to built a parking-less building here (in the urban villages), they are welcome to.
They rarely do though, because with parking there&#039;s a financial incentive: they can charge more for the condo if there&#039;s parking included (or so they say).

Retail/commerce/industry on the other hand is heavily encouraged to include parking:  the idea being that if a Target store goes in, the residential neighbors shouldn&#039;t have their typical street parking options negated by surly target shoppers (and therefore cause congestion of the &#039;circling for parking&#039; variety).</description>
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Also Alexander:  while parking requirements come up over and over again here in public design meetings, parking isn&#8217;t always mandated by the city :  if a developer wants to built a parking-less building here (in the urban villages), they are welcome to.<br />
They rarely do though, because with parking there&#8217;s a financial incentive: they can charge more for the condo if there&#8217;s parking included (or so they say).</p>
<p>Retail/commerce/industry on the other hand is heavily encouraged to include parking:  the idea being that if a Target store goes in, the residential neighbors shouldn&#8217;t have their typical street parking options negated by surly target shoppers (and therefore cause congestion of the &#8216;circling for parking&#8217; variety).<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Smith</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107486</link>
		<dc:creator>Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107486</guid>
		<description>Broadway&#039;s &quot;thing&quot; is being a patchwork of zoning / businesses / cultures:

There&#039;s also SFH on Harvard, on the same block as Broadway&#039;s higher zoning:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=1819+E+Republican+St,+Seattle,+King,+Washington+98112&amp;t=h&amp;layer=c&amp;cbll=47.618944,-122.322191&amp;panoid=7bBcHG5S91CYoy-6oOtsvw&amp;cbp=12,127.2,,0,5&amp;ll=47.618939,-122.322193&amp;spn=0,359.999008&amp;z=20</description>
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Broadway&#8217;s &#8220;thing&#8221; is being a patchwork of zoning / businesses / cultures:</p>
<p>There&#8217;s also SFH on Harvard, on the same block as Broadway&#8217;s higher zoning:<br />
<a href="http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&#038;hq=&#038;hnear=1819+E+Republican+St,+Seattle,+King,+Washington+98112&#038;t=h&#038;layer=c&#038;cbll=47.618944,-122.322191&#038;panoid=7bBcHG5S91CYoy-6oOtsvw&#038;cbp=12,127.2,,0,5&#038;ll=47.618939,-122.322193&#038;spn=0,359.999008&#038;z=20" rel="nofollow">http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&#038;hq=&#038;hnear=1819+E+Republican+St,+Seattle,+King,+Washington+98112&#038;t=h&#038;layer=c&#038;cbll=47.618944,-122.322191&#038;panoid=7bBcHG5S91CYoy-6oOtsvw&#038;cbp=12,127.2,,0,5&#038;ll=47.618939,-122.322193&#038;spn=0,359.999008&#038;z=20</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Smith</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107485</link>
		<dc:creator>Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107485</guid>
		<description>Ah the old &quot;plus-shaped&quot; tower gem.   Looks just like the projects in NYC.</description>
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Ah the old &#8220;plus-shaped&#8221; tower gem.   Looks just like the projects in NYC.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Smith</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107484</link>
		<dc:creator>Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107484</guid>
		<description>Chris, there&#039;s a nightmare example of the zoning-free, developer-run planning you&#039;re talking about.   It&#039;s called Sammamish.   In the late 80&#039;s and early 90&#039;s Issaquah and Redmond gave developers virtually no limits.   10-15 years later, the Sammamish plateau had 30,000+ residents (more than triple the size of downtown Issaquah) and merely 2 single-lane roads leading to it from the freeway, and no buses.  Apartment buildings went up next to single family homes and dense &#039;street of dreams&#039; Mcmansions were built next to farms.  Huge sprawling schools went in wetlands.  Strip malls and anchor stores were built without regard for zoning gradation or transportation wisdom.  The aquifer for the town of Issaquah ran dry and Issaquah was looking at paying smaller towns to pipe in water.   The creek, home to the Salmon in &quot;Issaquah Salmon Days&quot;, ran nearly dry.  Issaquah traffic became the worst snarl in East King County.  
And Issaquah itself hadn&#039;t changed a bit.

Even with limits on high rise and stepdowns as you suggest, imagine the non-village portion of Magnolia becoming a huge developer-run zoning free-for-all:  I don&#039;t imagine it would be too different from the Sammamish fiasco:  15th/western/ballard bridge gridlocked, the city left on the hook for critical utility shortages, design aesthetic and neighborhood history &amp; culture ignored... 

 NO thanks, I&#039;m happy we&#039;ve got the slow laboring machine of zoning in place.  Not because it&#039;s slow, but because it does usually work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Chris, there&#8217;s a nightmare example of the zoning-free, developer-run planning you&#8217;re talking about.   It&#8217;s called Sammamish.   In the late 80&#8242;s and early 90&#8242;s Issaquah and Redmond gave developers virtually no limits.   10-15 years later, the Sammamish plateau had 30,000+ residents (more than triple the size of downtown Issaquah) and merely 2 single-lane roads leading to it from the freeway, and no buses.  Apartment buildings went up next to single family homes and dense &#8216;street of dreams&#8217; Mcmansions were built next to farms.  Huge sprawling schools went in wetlands.  Strip malls and anchor stores were built without regard for zoning gradation or transportation wisdom.  The aquifer for the town of Issaquah ran dry and Issaquah was looking at paying smaller towns to pipe in water.   The creek, home to the Salmon in &#8220;Issaquah Salmon Days&#8221;, ran nearly dry.  Issaquah traffic became the worst snarl in East King County.<br />
And Issaquah itself hadn&#8217;t changed a bit.</p>
<p>Even with limits on high rise and stepdowns as you suggest, imagine the non-village portion of Magnolia becoming a huge developer-run zoning free-for-all:  I don&#8217;t imagine it would be too different from the Sammamish fiasco:  15th/western/ballard bridge gridlocked, the city left on the hook for critical utility shortages, design aesthetic and neighborhood history &amp; culture ignored&#8230; </p>
<p> NO thanks, I&#8217;m happy we&#8217;ve got the slow laboring machine of zoning in place.  Not because it&#8217;s slow, but because it does usually work.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Smith</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107483</link>
		<dc:creator>Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107483</guid>
		<description>Ben, with all respect are you referring to &#039;open space&#039; as in separate-block urban park design [let me use Olympic Sculpture Garden as a downtown example] ,  or setback, like a creative sidewalk &amp; plaza design [ here I might use the 2nd Ave Federal Building Entrance as a downtown example].

I&#039;m for both (though &#039;hood-wide moderation &amp; design wisdom must prevail).  Humanity does indeed desire &#039;open space&#039;, namely sunlight and sky views:  more specifically and scientifically, we need access to the sky to see the stars and clouds and feel the sun (vitamin D production being the science that I&#039;d offer as proof of humanity&#039;s need for open air/sun access).

While I like a well-designed Harlem or Greenwich Village rowhouse block, I&#039;m having trouble thinking of a similar example of satisfying building-to-building design in Seattle.  
So, The beggar&#039;s-run canyon of Brix and Joule on capitol hill: buildings up against one another... tiny token setbacks and out-of-scale impositions...  Would these by your standards represent better livability?</description>
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Ben, with all respect are you referring to &#8216;open space&#8217; as in separate-block urban park design [let me use Olympic Sculpture Garden as a downtown example] ,  or setback, like a creative sidewalk &amp; plaza design [ here I might use the 2nd Ave Federal Building Entrance as a downtown example].</p>
<p>I&#8217;m for both (though &#8216;hood-wide moderation &amp; design wisdom must prevail).  Humanity does indeed desire &#8216;open space&#8217;, namely sunlight and sky views:  more specifically and scientifically, we need access to the sky to see the stars and clouds and feel the sun (vitamin D production being the science that I&#8217;d offer as proof of humanity&#8217;s need for open air/sun access).</p>
<p>While I like a well-designed Harlem or Greenwich Village rowhouse block, I&#8217;m having trouble thinking of a similar example of satisfying building-to-building design in Seattle.<br />
So, The beggar&#8217;s-run canyon of Brix and Joule on capitol hill: buildings up against one another&#8230; tiny token setbacks and out-of-scale impositions&#8230;  Would these by your standards represent better livability?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Smith</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107482</link>
		<dc:creator>Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107482</guid>
		<description>Kenn, FYI, SU &quot;public transit&quot; consists of buses.
METRO&#039;s trip planner website might be a good resource:
http://tripplanner.kingcounty.gov/

You can also search on seattle.gov for their census results - if you really want to dig /drill down and compare stats for things like median travel times, commutes delays, etc ;  broken out per urban village/neighborhood.
    But in short, nearly anywhere within 1-2 miles of SU isn&#039;t too bad off in regards to bus access.   So choosing an area might become more of a cultural comparison for you if you stay close.</description>
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Kenn, FYI, SU &#8220;public transit&#8221; consists of buses.<br />
METRO&#8217;s trip planner website might be a good resource:<br />
<a href="http://tripplanner.kingcounty.gov/" rel="nofollow">http://tripplanner.kingcounty.gov/</a></p>
<p>You can also search on seattle.gov for their census results &#8211; if you really want to dig /drill down and compare stats for things like median travel times, commutes delays, etc ;  broken out per urban village/neighborhood.<br />
    But in short, nearly anywhere within 1-2 miles of SU isn&#8217;t too bad off in regards to bus access.   So choosing an area might become more of a cultural comparison for you if you stay close.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: litlnemo</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107459</link>
		<dc:creator>litlnemo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107459</guid>
		<description>I am finding this topic to be very, very frustrating because I do have strong opinions about it, but as a co-editor of the Beacon Hill Blog I am trying to be very neutral in print. (The Blog hasn&#039;t taken an official editorial stand on it, and we&#039;ve published editorials on both sides.) 

It goes against my nature to &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; mouth off online about topics I care about, so it&#039;s particularly frustrating here. (Incidentally, I live a block away from some of the property that would likely have been upzoned, and the land my house sits on is already zoned NC2-40&#039;.)

I am glad, at least, to see that so many other people care about the issue. I hope that all the Beaconians who care strongly about it one way or another will make their opinions heard, and even if you hate the whole &quot;neighborhood meeting process,&quot; please consider showing up at things like the North Beacon Hill Council meetings to get your voice out there.</description>
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I am finding this topic to be very, very frustrating because I do have strong opinions about it, but as a co-editor of the Beacon Hill Blog I am trying to be very neutral in print. (The Blog hasn&#8217;t taken an official editorial stand on it, and we&#8217;ve published editorials on both sides.) </p>
<p>It goes against my nature to <em>not</em> mouth off online about topics I care about, so it&#8217;s particularly frustrating here. (Incidentally, I live a block away from some of the property that would likely have been upzoned, and the land my house sits on is already zoned NC2-40&#8242;.)</p>
<p>I am glad, at least, to see that so many other people care about the issue. I hope that all the Beaconians who care strongly about it one way or another will make their opinions heard, and even if you hate the whole &#8220;neighborhood meeting process,&#8221; please consider showing up at things like the North Beacon Hill Council meetings to get your voice out there.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: TheDude</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107441</link>
		<dc:creator>TheDude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107441</guid>
		<description>Wow,
Bad cup of coffee this morning?  Mixed-use mid-rise is residential last time I checked. Not single-family, I agree, but I&#039;m not sure pure single-family has a place within the urban core.</description>
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Wow,<br />
Bad cup of coffee this morning?  Mixed-use mid-rise is residential last time I checked. Not single-family, I agree, but I&#8217;m not sure pure single-family has a place within the urban core.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107432</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107432</guid>
		<description>The &quot;last-minute&quot; aspect is the part that gamed the process. The process is being mocked by the fact that the appeals were accepted at all. The list of complaints/concerns has nothing to do with the DNS or the proposed zoning changes.

We need to look at how to make the process fair and accessible to everyone, while limiting the ability of &quot;individuals&quot; to obstruct things for the sake of obstruction. 

Perhaps appeals could be required to have a certain number of supporters? Or go through a preliminary review to determine if they have merit? I don&#039;t know what the answer will be, but I share Chris&#039; concerns that we&#039;ll see a repeat of this charade when it&#039;s time to update Columbia City &amp; Rainier Beach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
The &#8220;last-minute&#8221; aspect is the part that gamed the process. The process is being mocked by the fact that the appeals were accepted at all. The list of complaints/concerns has nothing to do with the DNS or the proposed zoning changes.</p>
<p>We need to look at how to make the process fair and accessible to everyone, while limiting the ability of &#8220;individuals&#8221; to obstruct things for the sake of obstruction. </p>
<p>Perhaps appeals could be required to have a certain number of supporters? Or go through a preliminary review to determine if they have merit? I don&#8217;t know what the answer will be, but I share Chris&#8217; concerns that we&#8217;ll see a repeat of this charade when it&#8217;s time to update Columbia City &amp; Rainier Beach.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Norman</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107429</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107429</guid>
		<description>If these drawings are sort of correct, except they don&#039;t show retail at ground level, then, conceivably, with retail on the ground floor, that would leave 2 floors of residential with 40-foot limits, and 5 floors of residential at 65-foot limits.  So the higher limit would actually permit 2.5 times the density of the lower limit, not 2 times the density -- 5 floors of residential vs only 2.</description>
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If these drawings are sort of correct, except they don&#8217;t show retail at ground level, then, conceivably, with retail on the ground floor, that would leave 2 floors of residential with 40-foot limits, and 5 floors of residential at 65-foot limits.  So the higher limit would actually permit 2.5 times the density of the lower limit, not 2 times the density &#8212; 5 floors of residential vs only 2.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107419</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107419</guid>
		<description>Note that both buildings in the illustration are residential, not mixed-use.  Or at least there&#039;s no commercial storefront, no separate entrances for ground-floor units, just one central entry.    

That&#039;s a style that has been built plenty of places for higher-density residential buildings, and yes, you can fit six floors of it in 65&#039;.  But it&#039;s not mixed use, so it&#039;s not really a fair representation of what will be going in around the stations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
Note that both buildings in the illustration are residential, not mixed-use.  Or at least there&#8217;s no commercial storefront, no separate entrances for ground-floor units, just one central entry.    </p>
<p>That&#8217;s a style that has been built plenty of places for higher-density residential buildings, and yes, you can fit six floors of it in 65&#8242;.  But it&#8217;s not mixed use, so it&#8217;s not really a fair representation of what will be going in around the stations.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107415</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107415</guid>
		<description>And with the complexity of the laws and legal precedents surrounding zoning issues, a citizen seeking to preserve their legal rights in these processes can be well served by taking the time to have their attorneys prepare any appeals carefully.  

Those who don&#039;t like these delays should consider how much more walkable many American cities would be today if it hadn&#039;t been so easy to ram through freeway-oriented &quot;redevelopment&quot; projects a generation or two ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
And with the complexity of the laws and legal precedents surrounding zoning issues, a citizen seeking to preserve their legal rights in these processes can be well served by taking the time to have their attorneys prepare any appeals carefully.  </p>
<p>Those who don&#8217;t like these delays should consider how much more walkable many American cities would be today if it hadn&#8217;t been so easy to ram through freeway-oriented &#8220;redevelopment&#8221; projects a generation or two ago.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107410</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107410</guid>
		<description>The Neighborhood Plans may need updates.  That isn&#039;t the point of the appeals--they&#039;re ostensibly about the lack of adequate environmental review.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
The Neighborhood Plans may need updates.  That isn&#8217;t the point of the appeals&#8211;they&#8217;re ostensibly about the lack of adequate environmental review.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107408</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107408</guid>
		<description>Well after some reflection I&#039;d have to say you&#039;d want to have some limits on high-rise construction. If nothing else than to prevent some of the stupidity we can see around here from before there was much in the way of zoning.

For one you&#039;d want to keep the height step-downs as buildings approached the water. Impact fees are another good idea. You might also want to limit the free-for-all to areas with either an urban village designation or in a transit overlay area.</description>
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Well after some reflection I&#8217;d have to say you&#8217;d want to have some limits on high-rise construction. If nothing else than to prevent some of the stupidity we can see around here from before there was much in the way of zoning.</p>
<p>For one you&#8217;d want to keep the height step-downs as buildings approached the water. Impact fees are another good idea. You might also want to limit the free-for-all to areas with either an urban village designation or in a transit overlay area.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107404</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107404</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;A 40′ 4-story building wouldn’t be able to have the typical 15′ retail slot, no.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is a problem where 4-story buildings have been built in 40&#039; zones. Sometimes the developer will try to get a zoning variance so they can have 15&#039; ceilings on the ground floor.

&lt;blockquote&gt;And where are the rooftop utilities? Here we count them as part of the height limits. Also, there will be building code imposed floor heights of some sort.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t believe rooftop utilities count against the height limit here. I&#039;m also not sure what the code imposed floor heights are but clearly it is enough to allow 4 stories in a 40&#039; zone.</description>
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<blockquote><p>A 40′ 4-story building wouldn’t be able to have the typical 15′ retail slot, no.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is a problem where 4-story buildings have been built in 40&#8242; zones. Sometimes the developer will try to get a zoning variance so they can have 15&#8242; ceilings on the ground floor.</p>
<blockquote><p>And where are the rooftop utilities? Here we count them as part of the height limits. Also, there will be building code imposed floor heights of some sort.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe rooftop utilities count against the height limit here. I&#8217;m also not sure what the code imposed floor heights are but clearly it is enough to allow 4 stories in a 40&#8242; zone.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Stefan</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107402</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107402</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t believe rooftop utilities are counted against the height limits here and there are some games that can be played with what are considered decorative elements above the height limit.

I&#039;ve seen new-construction 4 story buildings in 40&#039; height zones so I know it can be done. The marketability of any ground floor retail is a concern where this has been done. This is why a lot of developers would like to see the 40&#039; zones raised to 45&#039; and why a number of projects in 40&#039; zones have asked for a height variance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
I don&#8217;t believe rooftop utilities are counted against the height limits here and there are some games that can be played with what are considered decorative elements above the height limit.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen new-construction 4 story buildings in 40&#8242; height zones so I know it can be done. The marketability of any ground floor retail is a concern where this has been done. This is why a lot of developers would like to see the 40&#8242; zones raised to 45&#8242; and why a number of projects in 40&#8242; zones have asked for a height variance.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Craghead</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107394</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Craghead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107394</guid>
		<description>A 40&#039; 4-story building wouldn&#039;t be able to have the typical 15&#039; retail slot, no. And where are the rooftop utilities? Here we count them as part of the height limits. Also, there will be building code imposed floor heights of some sort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
A 40&#8242; 4-story building wouldn&#8217;t be able to have the typical 15&#8242; retail slot, no. And where are the rooftop utilities? Here we count them as part of the height limits. Also, there will be building code imposed floor heights of some sort.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Craghead</title>
		<link>http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/02/24/an-extra-twenty-five-feet/#comment-107392</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Craghead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattletransitblog.com/?p=12739#comment-107392</guid>
		<description>You won&#039;t get 4 stories out of 40 feet. Not without sacrificing marketability of ground floor retail *and* ditching rooftop utilities. 

So unless your building codes allow Hobbit sized floor heights, 40&#039; isn&#039;t going to get you four stories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><br />
You won&#8217;t get 4 stories out of 40 feet. Not without sacrificing marketability of ground floor retail *and* ditching rooftop utilities. </p>
<p>So unless your building codes allow Hobbit sized floor heights, 40&#8242; isn&#8217;t going to get you four stories.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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