Current Route 112
CT is already seeking comment on its service change for next February:
Route 112 (Ash Way Park & Ride – Mountlake Terrace Transit Center)
Route 112 buses would be routed to serve the Lynnwood Transit Center to improve connections with other buses.
Route 417 (Mukilteo – Downtown Seattle)
Route 417 buses would no longer travel on 44th Avenue W, north of 196th Street in Lynnwood. Instead, buses are proposed to travel on Highway 525 from Mukilteo to I-5, then exit at 196th Street before serving the Lynnwood Transit Center. Northbound routing would be the reverse. This proposed change would provide a peak-hour connection with Route 196.
Route 885 (Lynnwood – UW)
Route 885 trips are proposed to be eliminated and replaced with trips on Route 880. The two routes currently serve much of same corridor at different times, except that Route 880 does not serve the Lynnwood Transit Center. Riders wishing to travel between UW and the Lynnwood Transit Center could take Routes 810, 821 or 855.
In a change less likely to invite negative comments, money from Olympia and “congestion mitigation and air quality” money from the Federal Transit Administration will enable CT to add thirty trips on ten different commuter routes next year, lasting for at least three years. It’s nice that the State is stepping up to help out agencies that don’t have the special fundraising authority that King County gets.
Your best commenting options are September 6th, 3pm, 700 Hardeson Rd., Everett, or 2013changes@commtrans.org. I’ve always thought it odd that these hearings occur outside the proper CT service area.
CT really has a dilemma with Lynnwood Transit Center, and I always get the impression they’re quite aware of the challenging position they’re in, and that they make thoughtful proposals.
As for the 417′s change, I don’t know this area on the ground all that well, but it looks like it should already connect to the 196 (at best they’re eliminating some street-crossing?). And the change also appears to remove a connection to Swift. So it sounds like the change isn’t actually about providing connections, but about getting to Seattle faster. That might make sense — I doubt many people transfer to/from the peak commuter routes anyhow.
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Wait, Lynnwood isn’t allowing stops for the 196? Why exactly are we planning to run Link there?
since ct knew no stops were approved when they started this route, they should have routed the 196 around the back of Fred Meyer and use the existing stops on 194th. It would add a few minutes to the trip but make it much more useful, and the route is always far behind schedule any way it wouldn’t matter much.
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OK, so I usually don’t believe in making public policy punitively. But Lynnwood refusing stops on 196th due to traffic impacts is so asenine that if Link goes to Lynnwood I’d support ST punitively delaying the opening of the station a week for every day that Lynnwood keeps this up. I also think this is evidence that Lynnwood’s support for transit is highly questionable, and a great case against investing in a light rail station there.
As I said in an email to CT, the 112 shouldn’t just serve the Lynnwood Transit Center but should also serve 48th Ave. and 194th Street behind Fred Meyer. These streets were formerly served by routes 115 and 116 and are currently served by the 417.
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The 417 did not connect with the 196, their are no stops for the 196 between hwy 99 and 40th ave, by the convention center, and no connections to the Lynnwood transit center for the 196 either. If the 196 would just turn behind the fred meyer then back to 196th st, it could be a very useful route. It was bad planning to put this route in without planning stops by the transit center or at least fred meyer which was a popular destination. This route 196 is always late also, one driver showed me his schedule and the time points are not possible given the traffic and long stop lights on 196th to and from the mall.
I was going to point out that the 512 is missing on the map, then I remembered that the 512 is only running when none of the CT buses will be around.
It isn’t too early to start lobbying ST to expand the 512′s span of service (e.g. to Saturdays).
Route 512 used to run weekday evenings, all day saturday and sundays over 10 years ago. might consider this. If you want to expand 512, then you will need to end service early on 510 and 511 or run weekdays only and route 512 on weekends. Just a thought.
Really? I thought it was originally the 510 and 511 half-hourly, then the 511 was expanded to 15 minutes weekdays, and then much later (two years ago or so) the 512 was introduced on Sundays.
Well, I hope this latest revision for the 417 works better than the current one. What used to be a efficient, hassle free commute into downtown Seattle (and reverse) is now a long, exceedingly slow, and with a frustrating pace that seems like a bad movie that never ends.
I used to really like taking the 417, maybe that feeling will return.
The need for the 112 to deviate into LTC is more proof of bad suburban park-and-ride design. The nearest stop at 200th is only 0.2 mi away from the transit center, but you wouldn’t know it given all the strip mall storefronts blocking it. That deviation is the price that must be paid for a major transfer hub situated just outside the grid.
There is no real “need” for the 112 to deviate into LTC. There are plenty of sidewalks and crosswalks available to navigate 1/4 mile from timepoint #4 on the map to the Lynnwood TC bus bays. Furthermore, it is important to remember that there’s no law that says transfer have to happen at transit centers. 44th Ave is the main arterial out of LTC and most buses you could transfer to or from will serve the timepoint #4 stop directly. About the only transfers that really require going through the transit center are transfers to and from the expresses to Seattle. And for those, it’s still only a 5-6 minute walk. And given that the 112 only runs once an hour anyway, the deviation wouldn’t even really save those making the transfer any real time – it would simply substitute time walking to the bus stop with time standing at the bus stop, waiting for the same bus!
Now, repeat this about 10 times a day to 10 new people for a month or so, and maybe you’ll get a few to understand and change behavior.
Sometimes logical is not obvious
I’d never really thought about Lynnwood TC as being “blocked” from the grid, but I think that’s pretty apt. It’s really a black hole of direct routing. I used to sit on buses coming north up 44th, waiting for the left turn at 200th to get to Lynnwood TC thinking that if I could get off the bus, somehow get across 44th, and walk straight through the parking lots to the I could make the connection I was about to miss.
I haven’t spent as much time around there, but Bellevue TC seems like it’s probably about as good as it gets in that regard. It is, of course, not saddled with the enormous parking lot and freeway as Lynnwood TC is.
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The whole downtown Lynnwood area is slated for redevelopment, so I don’t see any problem with kicking out one of the many run-down one-story strip mall if there’s a better location for the TC.
Not only are the meetings outside of their service area, but the transit service that does “serve” that area arrives 58 minutes prior to the meeting from the north and 32 from the south. And, of course, a meeting at 3 p.m. is outside of most people’s ordinary work schedule, and staff reports aren’t provided, not even online, the agenda might show up online the same day as the meeting, and minutes can take months to appear.
The change to the #417 looks to be a reaction to public pressure and that of their prominent board member from Mukilteo, who seems to be more interested in representing his city constituent’s needs, which are only a fraction of those who he’s supposed to be representing in this, his role as a board member for their entire taxing area. And, re: the number of buses on the street, the city of Lynnwood should be happy with more buses going past its red-light cameras on 196th.
The other day, my CT bus driver told me that the #196 wasn’t timed out before it was instituted, and that trips were scheduled for 20-25 minutes, a challenge with no stops at even times of day with sparse traffic, which aren’t many. It was so bad that it wouldn’t take long for the trip reaching the Alderwood (east) end would arrive there from its eastbound trek at the time they were supposed to arrive at the west end (Edmonds), and visa-versa, and the drivers were told to swap their runs (one bus runs from one end to the other)! Perhaps if the city ever gets to add the bus lane they won some grant money to study, they’ll allow the bus stops. Until then, the route should be moved off of 196th in the 52nd-38th segment.
As Brent subtlety noted, the route #512 is Sound Transit’s. That’s who is the one to lobbying!
The route #112 going into the transit center might have been avoided, asdf, had there been a stop allowed near the Black Angus restaurant, with riders then having to walk through the lot. The nearest stop is north of 200th, which only an able-bodied rider could make in a “5-6 minute walk,” and not all riders fit that description.
I looked a bit more closely at the map and you are right – the nearest stop of the #112 is quite a bit north of 200th. But that looks like a problem that should be solvable without imposing 10 minute delays on everyone who wants to travel in a straight line that just happens to pass near a transit center. Looking at the map, I don’t see any reason the #112 shouldn’t be able to stop just after crossing 200th St. in both the northbound and southbound direction. Yet another option would be to move the stops a little further south beyond that, making use of the interurban trail bridge to cross the street, connecting the transit center to the northbound stop.
Again, though, before you have the knee-jerk reaction that there’s a transit center around, so every bus that travels anywhere near it must detour into the bus bays, it’s important to ask the question of what percentage of the riders actually are actually making transfers vs. just want to go in a straight line, as well as what percentage of the transfers actually need to happen at the transit center and can’t happen somewhere else along the time. For instance, a #112 stop at the corner of 44th Ave and 200th St. would provide an easy connection with the #115 and #116. A stop at 196th St. would connect to the #196.
Even connections to the Sound Transit #511 route don’t have to be made at Lynnwood TC. The 95% of riders who can walk the 1/4 mile from 200th St. to LTC (again, if the actual stop is further than this, move the stop over a block or two, but don’t change the route) can make the connection there and the 5% who can’t can always stay on the bus a little further and make the connection at Mountlake Terrace or Ash Way P&R. It doesn’t seem fair to impose delays on everyone who uses the bus, especially those who simply want to travel in a straight line just so people who need to make a connection avoid a short distance of walking. Especially since they’ll probably be sitting around waiting for the exact same bus whether they walk the last 1/4 mile or the #112 drives them the last 1/4 mile.
If the transfers aren’t in the TC but somewhere outside of it, they need good shelters and amenities to make up for it. Ideally the walkway and design would be such that it feels like part of the station even if it’s a block away.
“A stop at 196th St. would connect to the #196.” The 112 does stop pretty close to 196th, the problem is the route 196 does not stop within easy walking distance…which could be solved by routing it behind fred meyer, 44th-194th-48th to 196th simple detour, and the stops are already there.
the 112 can’t stop by black angus because the I5 onramp starts close to it-traffic problem.
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I don’t mean permanent routing behind FM, just until stops are approved (if they are). On some early and late trips there is excess time, i have been on the bus when the drivers are waiting at the timepoints for several minutes, especially from the ferry to 76th st. Sometimes they just leave late rather than block 196th by 76th.