Graphic by Oran

Metro is giving Route 75 the stop consolidation treatment. The targeted stops are along 24th Ave NW (therefore also affecting the 18) and between Lake City and UW. The number of stops will drop from 168 to 132, increasing the average spacing to 1,250 feet. About 7% of riders will have to use a different stop.

Consolidation is done with a minimum of fuss, with a short comment period and in between service changes. Metro has recently sped up the 3 & 4, 7, 8, 14, 16, 28, 49, and 70 in this fashion.

Metro will enact the cut on December 18th, so if you have comments get them in soon. Remember that positive comments are as useful as negative ones.

44 Replies to “Route 75 Stop Consolidation”

  1. That’s a great looking graphic. It makes me wonder what the route would be like if it were turned into a circulator.

    2. It makes me wonder even more what the route would be look at if it were turned into three separate grid routes. :)

      1. To have a grid network routes don’t necessarily have to be a straight lines. It depends on the context and geography of a city. Routes can either be a line, an L shape or an U shape. The 8 and 48 is a good example of an L shaped route and the 75 is a good example of a U shaped route.

        The main criteria is that all routes intersect an many places, not just one place. I think a great example of this is Paris’s Metro system. Looking at the map you can tell where there are major nodes but everything is still pretty well connected, there isn’t just one convergence point. Most of these routes follow the straight, L or U shaped route design. Compare that to Stockholm’s metro. You’ll see my point.

      2. I would claim that there are two benefits to a grid system. The first is the ease of connecting, like you mention, but the second is legibility. That Paris map is clearly well-connected, but damn if it isn’t complex.

        The 8 and 48 are certainly L-shaped, but were I to revamp Seattle’s bus system, I’d change both of them to be straight (split the 8 at 22nd and John, and create a new east-west route with the tails of the 48 and 71). I’d make similar changes to the 49 (follow the future streetcar route), 43 (delete it and reinvest service hours in 8+48), and 10 (have it switch to 12th Ave south of Pine). So, at least for me, none of those strike me as compelling arguments for L-shaped routes.

        You’re definitely right that an L or U-shaped route isn’t necessarily bad, but at the very least, it’s worth investigating.

  2. Anyone have a list of the longest KCM routes, both by time and distance? Googling, I see a lot of reference to the 48 being the longest all-Seattle route, but by my calculations the 75 beats it handily: 16 miles to 12 miles, and about 10 minutes longer from terminal to terminal. And if the loop were closed, it would be more like 20 miles and at least 1hr 40min. If the 75 isn’t already the slowest route in the system, it would almost certainly be then.

    2. Aside from Boeing routes, I’d think that the 342 has to be the longest? Renton to Shoreline via Bellevue, and almost 2 hours end to end.

      1. Like the old 340 which used to origonate at white center and ran to shoreline via the airport renton bellevue and all. 174 used to take forever and a day as well. Going back a few years the old 357 to skykomish. And 432 to tacoma were pretty long. The 432 was an hr and a half running time.

      2. What are the 357 and 432 routes? I’ve never heard of them.

        I remember the old 340 line… At least it used I-405 north of Bellevue. I would imagine it was one of the most unreliable lines.

        Another long journey back in the day would be before the Seattle Express, Routes 174 or 194 to Federal Way to the 500 to Tacoma. If you had to go to Lakewood, have fun spending a fourth of your day on the bus.

        Also, the trip to Everett, the 6/359 (now 358) to Aurora Village to the 100/101 to Airport Road to the Everett Transit bus.

        Thank you Sound Transit :)

    1. Ironically that stop *is* being removed as part of Route 8consolidation on that street. It’s had a “stop closed” sign on it for months, even though they’re not pulling it until next year. Maybe they’ll move up the timetable now, rather than replacing the sign.

  4. I am a route 18 passenger. I assume the stops to be deleted along 24th Avenue NW apply to the 75, the 18 local as well as the 18 express equally–that is the stop will be totally removed. I can only applaud this move. It is long overdue. It will make commute by bus more pleasant without the incessant stops along that stretch of road, as my stop it toward the end of the line.

    1. Seriously. The stop density on 24th is ludicrous. Of course, I’m slightly glad that I got lucky and my stop is being saved, but unlike its neighbors, it has a shelter.

      1. Yes. I agree. When I drive the 18, I always think, why are there so many stops. The 15 only stops every 5 blocks on 15th between Market and 85th. Why not the 18 too. Well it’s not as busy of a street and more places to cross, but still. Glad they are reduacing stops on 24th Ave NW. Now they need to look at reducing some stops on 32nd Ave NE. There are probably twice as many stops on 32nd NW than on 24th NW.

  5. Does anyone know how Metro decides when to enact cuts? There are a couple of stops on the 8/43 which aren’t going to be removed until 2011, even though the rest of the cuts were done months ago.

  6. I enjoyed the graphic as well. Stop consolidation is needed on many routes. but often misses some obvious bunched together stops, such as in front of North Seattle Community College, where buses traveling north have two stops close together. This is probably to drop people off (southern stop) and pick people up (northern stop), but aren’t signed or always observed that way (i.e., people get on the bus at the southern stop to “avoid the crowds”). There also are overlapping routes, the #316 and the #346, which follow the identical path to N. 175th, which Metro has refused to fold together so far, but which present economic circumstances should force them to. IMHO, these kinds of efficiencies should always be looked at, good times and present.

    1. I agree about NSCC, the most frustrating things about the transfer from the Northgate TC to my home a few stops north of the college takes just as long as when all the old stops were there. I often tell friends that NSCC has more bus stops on campus than UW did on Stevens Way (if you count the stop on 92nd and the closed stop at the very north side of NSCC just before the police station). Have you noticed the “Public Notice” sign that says the stops will be moved on campus? I see that slowing down College Way/Meridian Ave even more. All the more incentive to keep my favorite 316 downtown.

      Unfortunately I don’t see how to fold the 316 and 346 because the 316 only runs south from 6-9am and north from 4-6pm to/from downtown following the 16 route from Greenlake to Northgate whereas the 346 originates at the Northgate TC having come from the north suburbs (can’t remember which one) and runs all day.

  7. While I generally can get behind stop consolidation, I (of course) don’t want my stop removed. There are no sidewalks along Sand Point between this stop (123rd)and the adjacent ones, and this effectively forces me back into my truck full time when I’m with my pre-schooler. It’s too dangerous for me to walk on Sandpoint here, as encroachment forces you into the road in a couple spots.

    Give us sidewalks, and I can get behind it. As it is, it blocks my last remaining access to buses. We are already cut off from Lake City buses (522 and 41) because there is not ped access from our house that I can take a 3 year old on.

    1. I’d like to see a bike connection from central Lake City to the Burke-Gilman Trail, but the part of the trail from Matthews Beach to Lake Forest Park is pretty isolated along the shore…

      1. …perhaps bike lanes/sharrows on 125th and Sand Point Way at least to Matthews Beach and possibly Magnuson Park if not going all the way to connect with the 45th St sharrows or across the Montlake Bridge?

      2. I agree, it isn’t that easy to get to the Burke from Lake City, but it’s certainly possible. You just have to ride on the narrow shoulder or in-lane on 125th and Sand Point Way, then pop down 123rd to the trail. The reverse is much tougher. ;)

        While, as a regular bike rider, I would welcome a bike lane, I think sidewalks should come first. Slow moving bikes could toodle along on them, and more accomplished bikers could take a lane/shoulder like they do now. Maybe a combination of downhill Sharrows with a bike lane going up hill, though the road would have to be widened. I don’t know how much city ROW is there.

  8. The graphic here represents a great way that Metro could do better advertising. I’ve taken the 75 many times between Sand Point and the U-District and even though I know it ends up in Ballard, I’ve never really conceptualized it like this. This simply graphic is such a good way to clarify how the route works and how the North End is served. I really think doing more of this, clarifying how and where neighborhoods are connected, would do a lot for increasing transit use.

  10. Why don’t they “close the circle” and run buses in alternating directions (CW and CCW)? Or does that make too much sense :=

    1. That would be unnecessary. They already have decent and more frequent service on the Route 44 for that portion. Those red lines on the graphic represent frequent service routes.

      1. So replace some of the service hours of the 44 with a circular 75. At any point in the loop you’ve got a 50/50 chance of it being faster (perhaps much faster to catch the bus going the opposite direction. Nobody would route a network like this when they could have a RPR configuration that’s not only more efficient but has built in redundancy.

      3. Bernie circular routes a very hard to operate because there is no where to build in your recovery time.

      4. Actually recovery time can be built in anywhere. Many routes are “circular” that have recovery time – take the 43, 44 and 49 as examples. All you need for recovery time is a place to park.

  11. I’ve ridden the 75 many times. I can see at least one opportunity for efficiency when the RapidRide Line D starts up.

    The 75 is of limited use for passengers along 24th Ave NW who are headed south beyond Ballard, but, if extended down Ballard Ave to 15th, where it would intersect the RapidRide Line D, it would make the 18 unnecessary, or at least make fewer runs on the 18 necessary.

    1. Sounds like a neat idea. Of course the 18 also has a loop in Blue Ridge that the 75 doesn’t serve, but maybe the 48 could be rerouted to serve it.

      1. Sounds like a neat addendum. The 48 looping around Blue Ridge would give those riders a 1-seat ride to the U, and a faster connection to the Line D, which would also give them a more direct route to Ballard High, and Blue Ridge is a family neighborhood.

        The last four blocks that the 48 currently serves is well within walking distance of 28th Ave NW and NW 85th St.

  12. I would argue positive comments are infinitely more valuable than negative comments. When I read public comments, I expect to be yelled at in the comments…but a positive comment is a temporary reprieve from the anger echo chamber.

  13. I was hoping the 75 would be next. My stop is on the chopping block but I’m still glad to see the consolidation!

  14. One other wish I have with the 75 routing is for it to swap paths with the 41 between Northgate and Lake City. That would give the 75 a straight shot on 125th all the way from 5th Ave NE to where it becomes Sand Point Way.

    It would also give the 41 a straight shot up Lake City Way from where Northgate Way curves into it to where the 41 terminates at the Fred Meyer.

    I’ve always been baffled why those two routes turn at downtown Lake City instead of both going straight.

    For those of us waiting at the crowded downtown Lake City Way bus stop (where that shelter kept me from freezing Monday night — thank you Metro!), and wanting to get downtown, all the buses headed downtown would serve the stop. As it is now, we can’t tell if a bus coming south is the 41 until almost too late, and then we have to jay-run across 125th to catch it.

    The stretch of Lake City Way between Northgate Way and NE 125th St is the densest, most TOD neighborhood between Northgate and Lake City. The mid-rise apartment dwellers there deserve the more frequent 41 rather than the less frequent 75, especially since there are no more stops on the 522 south of 125th until downtown.

    Straightening out both the 75 and 41 would feed many birds with one seed.

    1. The current routing of the 41 could have something to do with the former Northgate P&R on the northside of Target/Best Buy. No that it is no longer in use, the 41 could be changed to use Northgate Way east of 5th Ave NE.
      Also, since we no longer use the old P&R, maybe the Northgate Only overload 41’s should start and end at NTC, rather than 5th/125th…..saving 6-7minutes per trip. 20 AM trips (6 mins) & 22 PM trips (7 mins) totals 4 hours and 34 mins a day, 1,192 annual revenue hours that could be saved rather than cutting hours somewhere else. Just an idea.

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