Redmond Link Stations and Walkability

60 Replies to “Redmond Link Stations and Walkability”

1. Great post! Very well researched. Thanks Wesley.

   1. It is so strange that Marymoor Village station doesn’t have a second exit on the park side. Was there ever a stated reason for this?

      1. Sorry, meant as top level comment

      2. The connection isn’t there probably mainly because ST wants to minimize the number of pedestrians walking across tracks or it was a mere oversight.

         One other risk of the Marymoor Station location with a connection both directions is that people could then park at the station garage and walk through the station to attend Marymoor events, especially when some events charge for parking. I don’t really have a problem with people doing that. Most events are scheduled for evenings or weekends when garage demand is low. And car tabs did help pay for the garage construction. And if it really got out of hand, entrances can be closed temporarily or ST could manually charge for parking those few hours around event times.

      3. My guess is it saves some money. What is weird is that they didn’t do that in other places. For example at Pinehurst Station they will have elevators, escalators and stairs to the north and south. Very few people will approach from the south (there is nothing there). I get the need for redundancy but I would have added another set of elevators and that’s it. That would have reduced the cost of building the station considerably (the ground slopes to the northwest).

         In this case I see way more value in having an entrance to the southwest (to complement the other entrance). People in the neighborhood will have to walk around (https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZJGdWMfJoGs8ntYE6) which is both annoying and time consuming (leading many to just drive).

      4. Google Maps does not yet account for 173rd Ave, i.e. 70th Ave will curve to the south and go to at least 67th. That will eliminate the detour for someone within the Marymoor street grid.

         The lack of a SW entrance will still create extra walking for someone coming from Marymoor park park.

   2. Link light rail oppresses and causes mental problems when you get off the train and can’t get away from the platform fast enough because they want you to walk all the way down to the end where these flashing extremely loud cow bells are and lights acting like they’re keeping you safe with all of this noise it’s like when you get off the train you should be allowed to get off the platform at overlake right away instead they want to hold you on the train platform while the train is still there and let it honk in your ear and rumble past you and then force you to go right as close as you can get to all
      the lights that you can hear bellowing throughout the neighborhood why can’t they just let you off the platform they have no consideration for the quality because they themselves don’t take it they don’t care they show up drunk in between shifts and nobody keeps them honest about the design because we have the wrong people that sound transit

      1. Are you ok?

         On another note, the bells are there because people kept getting hit by trains in the rainier valley so it’s not without good reason.

2. I was so impressed by the approachable scale and easy access provided by Downtown Redmond Station that I recommended it be the template for the future elevated station at Tacoma Dome. Current Tacoma Dome Link Extension designs have the tracks soaring over 50 feet in the air.

   Downtown Redmond and its station will become one of the big success stories of the Link system, I believe. Leaders should be proud of the effort to make that a walkable, functional, and attractive city center that is anchored by transit.

   1. I agree. Bellevue and Redmond have done an excellent job of leveraging the Link line to create dense neighborhoods around the stations. Over time there should be strong ridership gains between South Bellevue and Redmond Downtown stations, and some people will actually cross the lake to and from Seattle on the train as well. Line 2 will be the long-term “winner” in the Link system.

      But it’s not some magical template that will be mirrored along Tacoma Link. Heck, it won’t even be mirrored along Lynnwood Link. Microsoft and Amazon are unique “anchors” along Line 2 that will make it “all-day transit”. There is nothing, nor will there ever be anything, on Line 1 north of Northgate or south of the Airport which will make it anything other than commuter rail. Oh, forced transfers from truncated bus routes will give it some off-peak ridership, but nothing like a “real subway” generates itself. There’s no “there” anywhere outside the Northgate to Airport stretch that will enliven Line 1, and unless the climate crisis starts killing people in record heatwaves throughout the Sunbelt nothing significant will be built along it in the future. Frankly, the big gap between Rainier Beach and the Airport is discouraging as well, but the airport is a huge around-the-clock employment center and destination.

      1. I agree. The dynamic is different.

   2. Redmond has been a leader in other ways too. It has been zoning a lot of multifamily mixed-use areas. It expedited Link’s permitting to keep the planning phase short. And it has been making trail improvements to cross downtown off-street easier and in a natural environment.

      The Redmond Connector Trail is worth seeing. It’s a few blocks straight south of the transit center, between Cleveland Street and Bear Creek Parkway (which is a small street in spite of its name). At Cleveland Street there’s a historic-looking building (maybe pseudo-historic) and a pocket park. The Connector Trail itself is on the railroad right of way, and has an art exhibit inspired by a former crossing/depot, and the Link station is on the same right of way. (The trail would continue under the station, but that block is currently closed off for construction, so you have to use the sidewalk on the adjacent street.) It goes east to supposedly the Sammamish River Trail down to Marymoor Park, although I’m not sure where it meets it and where the 520 crossing is. You may have to go all the way to that street crossing at 175th (a block east of Marymoor Village Station).

   3. I think Redmond has done a stellar job shaping Link into its community. Kudos!

      In particular the decision to have a Downtown station without a garage (the nearby Marymoor garage is more than double a typical ST garage) provides an opportunity to have the end station become a more pedestrian oriented destination. Having two end stations near each other helps accomplish that too — and Redmond provides that model (which Kirkland, Issaquah, Tacoma, Everett and Ballard later ignored by having one end station far away from the next one).

      The discussion about Lynnwood Link recently demonstrated one of many problems that result when parking garages are lined up sequentially at every station without destination-oriented stations interspersed between them: A huge surge in riders for a handful of hours that create train overcrowding while the overall daily station activity is disappointingly low.

      Link with its high frequency (except in the middle of the night) can activate Downtown Redmond for all sorts of activities. I could see everything from a great restaurant selection to performance venues to more hotels in its future. Adding denser housing to that makes it even better!

      1. There is a garage next door to the Downtown Redmond Station, serving the Redmond Town Center complex. I’m sure Redmond Town Center will have a clients/residents-only parking policy like with Bellevue Square’s garage. I’m also sure more than a few non-shoppers/clients/residents will push their luck trying to park there for the train, like with Bellevue Square.

      2. Yes I think that could easily happen, Michael. That probably was even a factor in deciding the giant sizing of the Marymoor garage.

         In other metros, commercial garages near rail stations have developed signs to discourage their use by train riders. Even some places in Seattle do this.

         The best strategies that I’ve seen include:

         1. Only allowing parking for a limited duration — like 2 hours or maybe 3-4 if there’s a cinema or event involved. If it gets too much abuse as an honor system, it can become managed like a paid parking garage with a rule that says something like “free parking for up to X hours” and any longer stay costs money. (I was in a parking garage at a Madison St medical office a few weeks ago, which even now has video license plate tracking of entries and exits so soneone doesn’t get a paper parking ticket entry stub anymore!)

         2. Not allowing parking for a portion of the garage until after 10 am. This can be augmented by parking hang tags or stickers for employees. It would limit the garage being used for commuting to work, but less so if it’s an evening trip to go out to eat or to a ball game.

         Cameras with AI pretty much can instantly and inexpensively track where people leave their cars and for how long if that’s needed. It really boils down to the cost of creating and running a system, and whether ST needs to help pay for it (usually not).

   4. I’ll be going to Redmond Downtown station for the trails, and possibly unique restaurants/businesses that aren’t available elsewhere, like I did with Cartridge World and Stone. Originally I went to the Seattle office of Cartridge World, but when it closed the Redmond office was the only one left. Likewise, Stone was my introduction to Korean food (I tried it on the way home) when there weren’t as many Korean restaurants in Seattle.

      I’ll go to Marymoor Village station for the park, events, and rugby matches.

      Around 1990 when I lived in the northern U-District and had a bike, I took the Burke-Gillman and Sammamish River Trails through Marymoor Park to 180th street on the eastern side of town, to a shop called The Mac Zone that sold Macintosh software. That’s an example of a unique business. It took two hours each way, but it was also recreational cycling, and seeing the large Woodinville ballfield I wouldn’t have known about otherwise.

   5. Downtown Redmond has been ruined because the Link light rail wants to copycat Chicago and roar in the air higher than people are living bothering them with that train coming right up in between all those new apartments you’re a fool if you think that this is a great design you’re just another government bureaucrat spewing the rhetoric

      1. Right, just like the monorail destroyed Downtown Seattle. Sorry but that is silly. This isn’t a freeway. Speaking of which, one of the stations is right next to a freeway and the other one is not that far from it. It isn’t like the area is a walkers paradise with quiet streets and only the occasional bike bell. It is a nice little suburban downtown area and the light rail will enhance it.

      2. “… spewing the rhetoric”

         Where’s the mirror?

         There are plenty of design examples about how to design aerial light rail segments well, especially ways to mitigate sound. And a light rail line is much quieter than a freeway or busy arterial even without extra treatments.

         And the aerial segment of the Red Line in Evanston (Chicago El segment) doesn’t ruin anything. It’s a very upscale place and what Downtown Redmond seems to want to become.

      3. Actually, Evanston is on the Purple Line — but it’s still an elevated rail line going through an upscale denser suburb.

3. This post has me thinking about route 250. I really don’t like their proposed route, treating Redmond Transit Center as a detour that every passenger going to/from the west has to sit through to reach Link and real downtown Redmond. And, for what? The transit offers offers the exact same bus connections as the Link station, and nobody is going to use a park and ride to ride a local bus like the 250 (park and rides are for either Link, express buses like the 542, or vanpools). The people who live next to the transit center can easily walk one block to a bus stop along Redmond Way, if going west, and if trying to reach Link, they can just walk directly to Link (it’s 3 blocks). So, the 250 really should just skip Redmond Transit Center and stay on Redmond Way.

   That brings us to the 250’s other longstanding detour, a bit to the east, to Bear Creek P&R(*). I don’t think this detour ever really sense as, again, nobody drives a car to a park and ride to catch a local bus – park and rides are for rail and express buses. Back in the pre-COVID era, you could kind of argue for it, at least during peak, due to the route 268 connection, offering the fastest path from Avondale Road to downtown Seattle. Except, that bus is gone and the fastest path from Avondale Road to downtown Seattle is about to become Link (connecting at downtown Redmond station), so the detour is now making the rush hour commute to downtown path slower, not faster.

   Today, the real use case of the Bear Creek P&R stop is not actually the park and ride at all, but the big box stores (Target, Kohls, Home depot, Fred Meyer) in the vicinity. However, the park and ride does not serve any of these places really well, as you still have to walk across the street and a large parking lot to get to them.

   A better option, I think, would be to serve the area like this: https://maps.app.goo.gl/RzayjyrjaYT4zrLY6 (westbound), https://maps.app.goo.gl/MtNijn8BbH9AyLCD8 (eastbound).

   This option is not only faster for thru-riders, with fewer turns, it also serves the big box stores *better* than Bear Creek P&R does, with bus stops at the corners of 520 and both Union Hill Road and 76th St. getting you closer to all of the stores than Bear Creek P&R does. You do have to cross the eastbound on-ramp coming off the westbound bus, but some cheap crosswalk improvements, such as flashing beacons, could make that crosswalk much safer.

   But, Metro doesn’t think like that. Instead, they just instinctively treat every park and ride as a must-serve for every bus nearby, without stopping to take a look at the bigger picture, where people are actually going, and whether it actually makes sense for anybody to use that route as something to drive a car to.

   (*) Today, only half the weekday trips and all of the weekend trips serve the detour, but Metro’s proposed East Link restructure doubles down on the detour, making every trip serve it, a move in the wrong direction.

   1. The existing transit center is near the regional library, City Hall, a park next to them, and trails that start at or run close to the park.

      I think Metro is serving both the transit center and the Link station for these reasons, to avoid the cost and logistics of moving the transit center, to have an anchor in both “central” and “west” downtown Redmond, to serve the busineses located around there, and to avoid unknown impacts if people rely on that stop for other reasons.

      As for “east” downtown Redmond, let me describe how I use transit there. I don’t go to Redmond often, but when I do, it has been to businesses around and across from the Safeway plaza: Cartridge World (now gone), Stone Korean restaurant (now has an SLU location), and Value Village (I didn’t see it the last time so it may be gone). The 545 goes straight through to that area so it’s convenient to me. I’ve ridden the local bus that terminates a bit further north on Avondale Roads to see the environment there. I may have gone to Fred Meyer for a sandwich; in any case, I noticed it’s not exactly pedestrian-friendly from the bus stop.

      Last week I went to explore the Redmond and Overlake Village station areas in conjunction with this article. I made it to Downtown Redmond, which I’d seen before a year ago in my previous article. I saw that station spans 161st-166th. (I was on the 161st end.) I wanted to walk to Overlake Village station from there, but looking at Google Maps I’d have to go to 175th to find a 520 crossing and backtrack a block. With my leg only allowing me to walk a short distance per day, and with it about to get dark again so I wouldn’t be able to see much, I abandoned that. I considered taking a Redmond Way bus to 175th. But the only one I new about was the 545, and it was about to go half-hourly, and I was afraid there might be no other routes or they’d be even less frequent, so I gave up on that too. So I walked back to the transit center, which took around 7 minutes.

      So it would be worthwhile for frequent buses to go all the way through from western downtown Redmond to at least Fred Meyer. I hope some of them will.

      1. Value Village moved to where the 24-Hour Fitness is.

      2. I don’t think Redmond Transit Center needs to totally close, as for other routes serving it, it’s either the end or on the way. The layover space is also important for bus operations. I’m just arguing against having the 250, in particular, detour to serve it, since it’s not on the way for the 250, and the Link station offers the same connections. Remember, if the 250 stays on Redmond Way, it’s not like it can’t be used to access homes and businesses near the transit center. It just means having to walk an extra block. In return, some people headed to different destinations might find a bus stop on Redmond Way to be a slightly shorter walk. In the end, it’s a wash, but the quicker ride to Link and Redmond town center makes the change a net win.

   2. I really don’t like their proposed route, treating Redmond Transit Center as a detour that every passenger going to/from the west has to sit through to reach Link and real downtown Redmond.

      I agree. As I see it there are a couple or reasons why you would go that way:

      1) You connect to a lot of other buses (it is a transit center). This really doesn’t matter because you will connect to them anyway.

      2) You cover more of Downtown Redmond. This is true but it seems like the detour is too small to be worth it. If that is your goal then the bus should go up to 85th or even 90th. The plans seems to create enough of a detour to really slow down the buses (with several turns) but not enough to add meaningful coverage.

      As far as Bear Creek P&R I also agree with your main point. There is little value in connecting this bus to the Park and Ride. If you want to run an express to Downtown Seattle (or the UW) then go ahead and start at the park and ride (or detour to it). But otherwise it isn’t a significant destination.

      The box stores are. They cover them very poorly (as you mentioned). The routing is a mess. It as if they were determined to cover the southern part of Avondale Way and then suddenly thought “Hey, let’s swing by the park and ride!”.

      So first things first: I don’t think it is necessary to cover that part of Avondale Way with the 250. The 224 will cover that area (albeit infrequently). There are only two stops on that section. The first bus stop is very close to Redmond Way and it looks like the bus is going to detour to serve that stop. The other stop is a bit further northeast. In both cases it is not that far of a walk to 170th & Redmond Way. Thus the bus could simply do the dogleg onto Redmond Way with a bus stop there (or on 170th). That is a four minute walk to either stop. Riders further north (e. g. Redmond Elementary School) can get to the 250 by walking east. There would only be a handful of people that would be adversely effected by the change.

      With the bus skipping that part of Avondale Way everything changes. Yes, you could follow the highway — that would be quickest. But it is also reasonable to make a detour to get you closer to the stores. For example this: https://maps.app.goo.gl/qFx88gwELEkNogVy9. That puts you very close to entrances to both Target and Fred Meyer as well as the mini-malls on 178th. That is still a detour but it is significantly faster while also serving the area much better.

      1. Yeah, if you’re going to have the bus detour, it should follow the route you suggested, which focus on the actual destinations (the stores), not the pretend destination (the park and ride).

         But, I think you can take it a step further and just have the bus take 520 for half a mile between Union Hill Road and NE 76th St., with bus stops at both locations. The bus stop at 520/Union Hill Road is a very short walk to Kohl’s. The bus stop at 520/76th is a short walk to Target and Fred Meyer, and only marginally further to Home Depot than what you’d get with the detour. The underpass and ramp cross required to access the westbound bus stop is not great, but looking at aerial imagery, I think it can be improved significantly with relatively cheap street improvements – add lighting underneath the highway, add flashing lights to the crosswalk of the on-ramp, take one of the two eastbound lanes underneath the highway, shift traffic over a few feet to the south, and widen the north-side sidewalk.

         Also worth noting, the 250 is only even necessary to access these stores for people on Avondale Road; from downtown Redmond, you also have the 545 (replaced by 542, post east-link restructure).

      2. The bus stop at 520/76th is a short walk to Target and Fred Meyer

         I don’t see an existing bus stop. It seems like the only option that would work is to add stops on the freeway ramps. This can (and has) been done but it requires cooperation from the city (and maybe the state). It is also not that easy to serve since the bus would be turning left onto the northbound ramp. It is not really designed for that. Left turning traffic is supposed to stay left while those turning right are supposed to turn right. In other words it doesn’t look trivial. In contrast if the bus just kept going straight it would use the existing stops. While a bit slower it would be consistent as it would be taking left turns with a traffic light instead of waiting for a gap in traffic.

         Also worth noting, the 250 is only even necessary to access these stores for people on Avondale Road; from downtown Redmond, you also have the 545 (replaced by 542, post east-link restructure).

         The 542 will not go to Kirkland. I realize people can transfer but it is also worth noting that there really isn’t much to the north of the big-box stores on the 250. The detour seems worth it.

         But it is clearly a trade-off. My big issue with the routing is not the fact that there are detours (both of which seem reasonable) but that the detours are so poor. The first one is adds very little coverage yet still has a considerable number of turns. The second one is just bad. It doesn’t quite cover the areas worth covering and yet manages to spend a lot of time making turns and even doing a weird out and back trip. Either do it right or skip the detours.

      3. Yeah, my idea would require new bus stops added at the ramps. Which seems like it ought to be possible. It’s just a matter of thinking outside the box.

4. I have lived in Redmond for a little over ten years and it’s hard to overstate how excited I am for the 2 Line to be finally, _finally_ open. It feels like every year it gets pushed back another year or two. Part of why I have stuck around Redmond has been the promise of good light rail service into Seattle (lesson learned: don’t put too much stock into transit construction timetables) and last year I purchased a condo as my first home in the area. It is a bit of a walk (25-30 minutes) to the light rail station but I can catch the B line easily to make my way over there much faster. Having high frequency transit options to get into Seattle and back opens up so much more for me without having to rely on my car.

   I’m also excited for the bike trail connection under 520 to finally open up; getting from north of 520 to the east lake Sammamish trail previously required either crossing the Sammamish River at Leary Way and taking a detour through Marymoor, or giving up on trails and fighting through street/sidewalk traffic on Redmond Way.

   Speaking of biking and the new station, I see “bike parking” on the Downtown Redmond station plan. Does anyone know if this will be proper bike lockers or if it’s just places to chain up?

   1. I remember reading that every Eastside station was going to have bike lockers, but I can’t remember where I read it. Every station on the current 2 Line has the lockers, although last time I checked, none of them were being used.

5. There is one other key aspect here, and that it Redmond did not insist on an underground Downtown station. Not even a cut and cover one!

   It proves done important things:

   1. Aerial tracks and stations are not disturbingly intrusive.

   2. There are usually fewer vertical steps with aerial stations, making this distance from the platform to the street minimized.

   3. It’s several times cheaper than an underground station as well as faster to build and with fewer construction impacts!

   The only places currently being assumed by ST for future underground stations are West Seattle, Downtown Seattle, South Lake Union, the ID and Ballard. While in some cases the platform positioning is a result of the terrain, in others it is purely an aesthetic choice — driven by fearful, whiny adjacent property owners. Redmond’s example illustrates how that fear is not only unfounded, but can actually be a worse design choice.

   1. Yes, however… they unfortunately decided to go to Downtown Redmond from the southeast, heading to Marymoor Village first, because they didn’t want elevated tracks on Leary Way. This routing decision precludes any future extension to Sammamish.

      1. I don’t see an extension to Sammamish ever making sense anyway. If the 2 line were to ever get extended, I’m guessing Totem Lake to be the most likely destination, but we’ll all be dead before that happens

      2. Heading to downtown Kirkland via Redmond Way seems like it would make the most sense to me. It’s easier to get to than Totem Lake and there’s much more on the way. But yeah an extension doesn’t seem likely to happen any time in the near future

6. I was originally nonplussed with the backracking alignment, but now it seems pretty good. It’s great to have a station (and any kind of good transit) to Marymoor Park. I was afraid the station would be on the north side of 520 but it’s on the south side (the park side). And Downtown Redmond station seems centrally located. I wonder if it should have been closer to the city hall/library area, but I don’t know enough about the predominant trip patterns in downtown Redmond to say.

   1. Anecdotally from living in the area, one thing that would have gotten a lot of benefit from a more westward terminus is the new senior community center. Despite the name it is a general-purpose community center and almost every evening it seems like some large group has the meeting rooms booked; when I was there last night to use the gym the outdoor lot and a good chunk of the adjacent municipal parking garage was full. It’s easily accessible from the river trail but a good 25 minutes from the new station (and that’s if you walk city streets instead of taking the trail.) That’s also near the QFC, movie theater, etc; all probably just a little too far out of walking distance from the light rail for a lot of folks.

      1. I think something in that general area (https://maps.app.goo.gl/qd1AF8Fh1ffjtAXH8) seems the most likely. It is far enough away from the main station to be worth it and it is still relatively urban.

         I think the challenge is getting there. I see two options, neither of which look easy. The train would turn immediately north onto 164th, then west onto 85th. There would be a station on 85th close to the library and city hall. It would be a fairly short, pleasant walk to the senior center. That is still a twenty minute walk from the other station — enough to add plenty of new riders. The other option is to continue heading west until you get to 161st. This means going over the Redmond Central Connector Park where the train would take a 90 degree turn NNE. Then the train could go up 161st as far as we want.

         The hairpin turn to get to Bellevue makes it unlikely that the train would ever go farther. From places like Totem Lake and Woodinville it is much faster to use the freeway to get to Downtown Bellevue or Seattle. It is nice to connect to Downtown Redmond but it would not be cheap to extend Link very far if you wanted to be grade separated. Running on the surface doesn’t seem worth it given the potential ridership along the corridor. I think you are looking at maybe one more station in Redmond and that’s it.

      2. But why turn off the Eastrail ROW at all? You could put a station essentially at the river and that gives you textbook 1/2 mile spacing from the Downtown Redmond station. The station can straddle Redmond Way, with an entrance from the east curb of Redmond Way. The station’s west entrance will connect directly to the Sammamish River Trail, and then an easy 10 minute walk along the river to the Senior Center.

         You could put a station at Redmond Way & Eastrail AND a station a Willows Road and 90th for 1/2 mile stop spacing for full coverage of urban Redmond, with minimal ROW cost because it runs along Eastrail. Midrise growth between Willows Run & Marymoor Park puts Redmond city hall, library, and senior center right in the center of what would be an awesome city.

      3. You could put a station essentially at the river and that gives you textbook 1/2 mile spacing from the Downtown Redmond station.

         The problem is that there is very little there. The Redmond Bridge area (https://maps.app.goo.gl/BgNEDsX9RJnAJKoL8) is essentially a greenbelt in most directions — the main exception is back towards the other station. Willows Road and 90th has a similar problem — it is largely industrial and low density. It would likely be the cheapest option but it wouldn’t be that cheap (you are still probably running elevated the whole way). It wouldn’t add that many riders. In contrast adding one station to the Northwest would probably be cheaper than adding the other two stations but get more riders. It would put you in the middle of a relatively urban area.

   2. For many years, the philosophy was to go through an area, and put a park and ride station on the far side. This is supposed to reduce the auto congestion in the downtown area being served. Eg: MAX Cleveland Ave in Gresham, Park Ave in Milwaukie, etc.

      However, it only really makes sense in linear circumstances. The Marymoor station serves that need here.

      1. Right – Marymoor Station serves as the “terminal” station for access beyond the line’s walksheds, even though it is not the literal terminus.

   3. The two stations are so close that I don’t think it matters much which one is at the end.

      The real drawback to the current orientation is simply that it’s tougher to get value by extending the line in the future.

      1. I think it’s the other way around. No one is suggesting an extension to Sammamish, but extensions to Totem Lake or Woodinville seem like possibilities.

      2. @ Sunny:

         Going further up the former rail corridor does look like an opportunity as you note. However I cannot imagine that trail interests would let that actually happen.

         Perhaps any further extension in any direction would be too controversial and difficult. Outside of the former rail corridor, there aren’t good options to adding more track without getting significant land acquisition. If that’s the case, it doesn’t really matter how the end stations are positioned because they’ll be at the end of the line for some time.

      3. I agree with Sunny. An extension into Sammamish is very unlikely. Even with high quality growth, Sammamish at best will have a single high frequency bus route running between Marymoor station and Issaquah Highlands, with a few surface P&R along the way and a modest town center anchored by the library & high school. There will never be enough density within Sammamish to merit an extension that direction.

         Totem Lake and Woodinville, on the other hand, have actual town centers and the footprint to grow. Less ambitiously, and plausibly in scope of an ST4, is a short extension along the rail ROW with a station at roughly Willows & 90th. If Redmond decides to upzone Sammamish Valley* from lowrise commercial/industrial to midrise, that could be a high quality station.

         *https://www.redmond.gov/891/Neighborhoods – at least the part south of WIllows Run, where the valley is already paved over.

      4. Al, there should be plenty of ROW between the rail ROW and Willows Road The trail may need to closed during construction, but it should not be impacted long term. It may even be in King County Park’s long term benefit to coordinate if ST pays to replace the existing ped bridges over the river & over 154th.

         Much like ST improving the trail network under SR520 with the Marymoor station, an extension can be a win for trail advocates.

      5. ST has said since the 2010s that Link will never go to Sammamish. The large P&R at Marymoor Village station is in compensation for that. Sammamish has defined itself as low density single-family, and fiercely resists upzoning.

      6. Alongside it can be served by KC Metro route for Kirkland-Issaquah via Redmond-Sammamish that’ll serve Line 2 and 4 for example.

      7. As a reminder, ST’s mandate is to connect regional centers. That’s what makes neighborhoods must-serve by Link/BRT. Regional centers are neighborhoods with high job capacity, like downtowns, industrial centers (Redmond, Ballard, Paine Field), other large ones (UDistrict, Northgate), and new ones (Spring District, Totem Lake’s growth). Issaquah zoned a regional center in the west to justify Issaquah Link. Sammamish will never zone a regional center because it’s so anti-growth. Because it doesn’t have a regional center, it won’t get Link or BRT or frequent ST Express/Metro service. It may eventually get 30- or 15-minute bus service anyway after higher-priority needs are met, but it’s not must-serve for that — because it has no regional center.

      8. See my comment up above: https://seattletransitblog.com/2025/03/07/redmond-link-stations-and-walkability/#comment-952805.

         Going to Totem Lake would not be cheap. Imagine you completely take over the bike path. This is not like the CKC proposal — bikes and pedestrians would not be allowed. Now what? It is good for a while but the trail runs on the surface starting here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/fij6gWvmbDgBuKz67. There is a much more prominent crossing at 148th/90th: https://maps.app.goo.gl/nwCkaC1kKqZcUGXr6. There are various minor crossing roads until you get to 124th (which is a major intersection). You’ve gone over three miles and you’ve either run elevated the whole way or you’ve gone up and down to lower the cost (a little bit). And you are still in the middle of nowhere. Totem Lake sits about a mile west of there as the crow flies (and you aren’t a crow). So you run (presumably elevated) over a mile (and over a lake) until you then curve north on 20th to serve the development there. At best you have one more station close to Evergreen Health. So that means several miles of mostly above ground travel to add two stations. Meanwhile, you just so happen to be very close to the freeway that just so happens to have HOV ramps. This means that anyone in the area could get to Seattle or Downtown Bellevue faster by bus (any time of day). Remember this is *after* you’ve kicked the bikes off of a very nice bike path in a very car-centric area. You can file this under AGH for Ain’t Gonna Happen.

         Meanwhile there is Sammamish — technically a city. There is no density of any sort. No population density, no employment density, no education density — nothing. Of course the geography is all wrong if you are headed to Seattle as well. By all means you should run buses along the main corridors for those stuck in this hellish anti-transit landscape but running a train that direction would be just silly.

         There is really only one decent option and it is the one N. D. mentioned up above: Just add another station in Downtown Redmond.

      9. At the risk of stretching the subject here but the discussion of running Link 2 Line up to Totem Lake or Kirkland from Redmond raises a question for me dating back to the 1990s when public meeting were held about what a rail system would look like (route wise). I had drawn a line from Tukwila to Woodinville and labeled it as a DMU starter line. I wasn’t alone. Eventually Sound Transit did put out a study based on running a full scale Sounder Train up the line and came to the conclusion that there would not be enough riders. That result actually made me tune out on this process for a decade or so! (Call me Chicken).
         https://seattletransitblog.com/2009/02/12/eastside-commuter-rail-study-released/

         Moving to the next millennium, why on earth would the issaquah to south Kirkland Link line run at least to Kirkland and maybe Totem Lake? Is it strictly NIMBYism or is there a logical reason not to use the existing rail/trail right of way? I did try and search the blog for any discussion on this but was not able to pinpoint it. Im sure this was debated on these pages and if it exists would appreciate a link if it’s available.
         Sorry for the side trip!

      10. @Robert Whitbeck

          My understanding is that it is in a large part because of money:
          – City of Kirkland was opposed to rail if it skipped downtown Kirkland. It’s not possible to reach downtown Kirkland by rail without a very expensive tunnel
          – City of Kirkland preferred BRT on the rail corridor for that reason (because the bus can exit the corridor to serve downtown)
          – Sound Transit decided to go with rail (on the rail corridor) and end at South Kirkland, with potential for an extension in the future. I don’t think they have funds to run it any further than that.

      11. John:
          Thanks, that info helps me catch up. On the topic, very useful.

   4. Two things about the current alignment. It doesn’t point toward Sammamish but it points toward Woodinville. So that’s ST making a strategic decision that it will never be extended to Sammamish, thus the large parking garage for Sammamish taxpayers. And some transit fans have suggested extending it north to Woodinville long-term.

      1. I work in Woodinville. The downtown area is rapidly densifying and attracting people who would like transit for work or leisure, while staying in town for basic shopping and errands. Woodinville also has a large semirural area whose residents are fiercely opposed to mass transit and densification (they live there because they want a quiet area with lots of space).

         I do think it would be easy to satisfy both groups of people. There’s enough room to establish a RapidRide route connecting downtown Woodinville and/or the Park-and-Ride with Redmond or Kirkland, perhaps even a grade-separated BRT on the former train tracks (what the old Spirit of Washington dinner train used). And it would be some distance away from the quieter, more spaced-out houses, like those along Woodinville-Duvall Highway, so they won’t be affected by the hubbub.

7. General Redmond bus question. I attended the Cirque du Soleil show at Marymoor Park yesterday (a bucket list item BTW), but drove there because I was running a bunch of items before and didn’t have time to go back home in South Rose Hill and take a bus to the Cirque Tent. The next time I want to go to Marymoor via the bus, what stop would I use to get there? I’m not sure where the 250 from Kirkland to Redmond gets off in DT Redmond, I’ve only taken it as far as the shopping center where the Trader Joe’s, Staples and Ben Franklin are.

   And by the way, how welcome are animals on Link? Marymoor has a fantastic dog park, and I’m imagining a couple of East Link train cars full of mutts headed there on weekends.

   1. Marymoor has very poor bus service, with the nearest stops nearly a mile away from either the east or west entrances. Then, you have to traverse the park itself to get to your destination.

      When the Downtown Redmond Link Extension opens on May 10, the Marymoor Village station will be the closest transit stop. So, from Kirkland, you’d probably take the 250 to Downtown Redmond, then ride one stop to Marymoor Village.

      Regarding pets, service animals and pets in small containers are allowed (https://www.soundtransit.org/ride-with-us/know-before-you-go/rules-etiquette). However, I’ve often seen full-size dogs on leashes on the train. As long as your pet is well-behaved, most people don’t care.

   2. Cirque generally lays out their venues to promote driving there. They want the parking revenue! Lol

      Of course, they want site control for safety as well as they don’t want to be in the bad side of neighbors (especially commercial) from parking intrusion. So it’s not all about the money.

      Anyway, you raise a larger issue and that is how to promote park use beyond having a rail platform nearby. Relatedly, a post a few days ago that lamented that there isn’t a connection on the northwest side of Marymoor Village station to a trail there.

      I think Marymoor Park interests haven’t fully addressed how Link can make their park better used. They may even fear that it will attract non-Redmond residents and want to keep Link riders away.

      1. Marymoor Park is a county park, not a city park. I don’t think the KC Council cares about Redmond vs non-Redmond visitors.

         Marymoor is already an “event” park (Marymoor Live concert series, Seattle Orcas professional cricket team, Jerry Baker Velodrome, etc.), so I would expect the KC Parks to build upon that infrastructure to host even more events. Link access + existing parking = ability to handle larger crowds.

         I assumed the parking revenue is kept by the park.

      2. Cirque parking was either $15 or $25. Given that the tent holds 2,500 people, that is a revenue bump. I did see separate areas for Cirque parking and other parts of Marymoor, as the dog park.

         I suspect they’ll also get a parking bump for Major League Cricket, I believe the oval’s capacity will be 10,000. If you don’t want to pay for parking, you might want to try the Seattle Thunderbolts of Minor League Cricket, essentially a feeder league for the Seattle Orcas and the rest of Major League Cricket. I don’t think the Thunderbolts will charge admission when they finally move in to Marymoor.

         As for dogs, a friend plays for Seattle Rugby Club’s women’s team, and they made a rare sojourn outside of Seattle to play at Marymoor once. Between plays, her predominately Seattle-based teammates looked at the Marymoor dog park in absolute wonder and resolved to bring their own dogs there.

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