University Way NE (“The Ave”) is the historic main street near the University of Washington campus in Seattle. The street is lined with dozens of shops, restaurants, and bars that cater to thousands of UW students and the nearby community. In 2021, the U District Link station opened one block west of The Ave between 43rd St and 45th St. Despite the street constantly buzzing with people shopping and dining, most of the right-of-way is allocated for cars and on-street parking.
University Way runs between NE Pacific St and NE Ravenna Blvd. For the purposes of this article, we will focus on pedestrianizing The Ave between NE 41st St and NE 50th St. There are a few variables that need to be considered when pedestrianizing a street: transit, emergency vehicle access, deliveries, accessibility, and cross streets. Let’s take a look at possible solutions for each of these categories.
Transit
King County Metro runs two routes on University Way, routes 45/75 and 79. Both of these routes can easily be moved one block east to 15th Ave NE. The bus only lanes on 15th Ave between 40th St and 45th St will ensure these routes remain reliable. The biggest downside to this move is the increased distance between these routes and U District station. Transferring passengers will now need to walk two blocks (about 4 minutes) on NE 43rd St, instead of one block.
Emergency Vehicle Access
Emergency vehicle access is often brought up as a rebuttal to pedestrianizing an area. Fortunately, the solution is easy: these vehicles are still allowed. While more restaurants will take advantage of the pedestrian space for additional outdoor seating, a 12ft lane should remain clear of furniture at all times. Unlike cars, people walking can easily move to the side when an emergency vehicle is using the street.
Cross Streets, ADA Accessibility, and Deliveries
Excluding the boundary streets (41st Ave and 50th Ave), this pedestrian street crosses four streets: NE 42nd St, NE 43rd St, NE 45th St, and NE 47th St. 45th St is a major arterial with many bus routes and should continue to run across University Ave with a signalized crossing.
NE 43rd St is a minor cross street that is used by Metro routes 44, 49, 70, and 372. Today, the block to the west of The Ave has a bus only lane in westbound and a bike lane eastbound. The block east of The Ave has a general purpose lane westbound and a bike lane eastbound. The block to the east should be updated to have a bus only lane between the University Book Store parking lot entrance and University Way. Additionally, a short general purpose lane should be added eastbound between 15th Ave and the entrance to the parking lot (in the foreground of the picture). The intersection at NE 43rd St & University Way NE should continue to use a traffic signal. The signal should be timed with the left turn signal at 15th Ave NE so buses do not need to wait at the light approaching The Ave.
NE 42nd St and NE 47th St are both minor streets that cross The Ave. These streets should be blocked off to allow a continuous pedestrian environment. On both streets, on-street parking between Brooklyn Ave and University Way should be completely allocated for ADA parking and turn around space. On street parking between 15th Ave and University Way should be allocated for 30 minute loading/unloading zones and and turn around space. The many shops and restaurants on The Ave will also need loading/unloading space close to their establishments. Fortunately, mid-block alleys run the full length of the proposed pedestrianized area. Alternatively, local deliveries could continue to use The Ave during less busy hours (eg: 6am-9am).
Do you think The Ave should be pedestrianized? Or, should it be converted to a transit mall?
This is an open thread.
Sure but Seattle can’t even permanently pedestrianize Pike place so I’m extremely skeptical this will ever happen. Where is the political and business will for this if it can’t even overcome the former.
You’re right, change is difficult and never worth advocating for. Even obvious improvements are impossible.
If only the City had the legal authority to implement these changes, or had recently created a unified Transportation Plan which identifies means of identifying and creating pedestrian streets. If only we had a Mayor who were interested in walkable streets. Then there might be a real chance at real change. Alas.
It does happen for the U district street fair, albeit for only a few hours per year.
As a UW student, I would love this! The sidewalks are always busy and I think it would add a lot to open up the street to pedestrians. They shut down the street every May for the U District Street Fair, and I wish they would just keep it that way.
This is great, and also thinking too small. Could we identify the blocks in *every* Seattle “regional center” that should be fully pedestrianized?
* Ballard – Ballard Ave NW
* Columbia City – S Edmunds way near Rainier
* West Seattle – California Ave S
Pretty much where ever the farmer’s markets pick seems to be the right place to consider. Dream big.
> Pretty much where ever the farmer’s markets pick seems to be the right place to consider.
Agreed! Ballard Ave was on its way to pedestrianization but seems to have stalled with business owners complaining about loss of parking and increased traffic. I’d like to see Edmunds, 37th Ave S, and S Ferdinand street converted to pedestrians-only in Columbia City. California is tricky because there’s strong transit use by the RapidRide C and other buses, but SDOT is planning to pedestrianize 42nd and 41st as part of station area improvements for WSLE.
I haven’t been to the Lake City or Magnolia Farmer’s markets, but they seem to also be around fairly critical transit corridors (although it seems like we could pedestrianize McGraw between 32nd and 34th without severe traffic impacts) Phinney’s farmer’s market is in a parking lot and Phinney/Greenwood Ave needs protected bike lanes before pedestrianization.
The one block of McGraw used by Farmer’s market is not that important for transit. Only University District bound 31 uses that today, but its current layover area (west of 32nd) is good enough as a terminal stop. The only reason 31 has to go 2 blocks west at 34th is to meet 24, but I doubt many people or any people are making that transfer. If the street is closed between 32nd and 33rd, 31 can just turn around in the middle of McGraw or do a loop via W Smith St, but I think overall pedestrianizing McGraw shouldn’t be considered in high priority.
Overall Magnolia Village is not that busy and serve more as a neighborhood village. Neighboring Ballard has a lot more to offer so this place will never attract visitor regionally. I cannot think of a single store there people from other part of Seattle would go across town to visit. I don’t think pedestrianization is necessary, but some other road diet can be considered. Like many west coast suburban neighborhood streets, the pavement of McGraw is too wide in a degree that’s confusing to some people whether it is for two-lane street or multilane street.
Between 32nd and 35th, travel lane can be narrowed to give way for bike lane or wider sidewalk without taking any parking or travel lane. It is similar situation for 34th which I believe has wider right-of-way because it was a streetcar corridor. It is possible to squeeze bike lane there without taking away any lane or curbside parking.
Good idea.
What about bicycles? What about homeless camping? What about to-go food and services like Uber Eats?
Moving furniture for emergency access is also fraught with problems. Easily mobile furniture invites furniture theft. Requiring professionals to do the moving first can cost valuable minutes in an emergency response.
Surely there are streets that are narrow enough and busy enough for 24/7 pedestrianization. But there are probably more that are more better suited for partial presentation. Enable bollards rather than curbs. Look to increasing pedestrian widths by turning streets one-way. Leave a bicycle/ emergency vehicle path. Consider seasonal closures. Change the pavement to create very slow speeds. Add pedestrian level lighting rather than rely on typical street lights. Store cleaning equipment on site.
“What about to-go food and services like Uber Eats?”
People can live without Uber Eats, and did so just a few years ago. The Ave is a place for pedestrians to hang out and walk between shops and walk into restaurants. It’s right next to a 50,000 student university, with 10,000 living full-time in dorms, and countless others students and non-students living in the U-District and walking to the Ave. The Ave has like a hundred restaurants, with ten in some individual ethnic categories. It’s the area that least needs Uber Eats, and if people still want to order Uber Eats anyway, they can order it from restaurants elsewhere.
“People can live without Uber Eats, and did so just a few years ago.”
A few years ago is irrelevant now. Business has already invested an adapted. Many cannot live without it now. Food delivery service is their way to compete with restaurants with parking lot but charging higher price, now you want to take away their 3-min parking.
Not saying it is a bad plan, but you cannot just dismiss those needs this way.
If many of those restaurants are not confident they can survive this, what’s the point of pedestrianizing it anyway?
I don’t see why pedestrianizing the Ave. even precludes Uber Eats. Drivers can just park on the cross streets and maybe walk an extra hundred feet. The key is to prioritize parking on the cross streets for short term uses, like Uber eats. People who want to store their cars for multiple hours will need to either walk further or park in a private pay lot.
And that’s not even getting to the fact that UberEats itself can be operated by e-bikes, rather than cars, in dense neighborhoods, as is already done elsewhere in the world. I’d be willing to bet that most of the people that order food from a restaurant on the Ave. are within very easy biking distance of it, especially if a motor to get up the hills.
Exactly.
Right now, there’s what? Maybe 5 parking places per block per side of the street?
Eliminating them really doesn’t cut out that much access. Alternatives can be created. That’s what pedestrian streets everywhere else do.
And those delivery services take a sizeable chunk of the restaurant’s revenue if they don’t charge you it. It’s hindering some restaurants from staying in business.
“Food delivery service is their way to compete with restaurants with parking lot but charging higher price,”
Come on now. The Ave has a lot of walk-ups and frequent buses. Companies consistently underestimate their walk-up business and overestimate their drive-up business, and underestimate how good urbanism treatments in the neighborhood could increase walk-up customers more than they lose drive-up customers. When you can get it over the critical-mass curve, the space those parking spaces and multiple car lanes take up can hinder maximum business.
The Ave’s primary problem is overcoming the street-people doldrums and empty storefronts that discourage pedestrians from coming like they did in the golden age 80s and 90s.
Landlords are partly responsible too, for keeping storefronts empty for months or years instead accepting a lower-paying independent tenant, because they want to keep it open in case a high-paying chain store comes someday. But those generic chain stores are not what the Ave needs. People go to the Ave because it’s not like University Village.
If you want to bring back “the golden age 80s and 90s” forget the bike lane and buses . A lack of transit in the U Dist has never been an issue. Brooklyn is the obvious choice for a serious bike route. Instead, go all in and create something like Freemont Street. For those who didn’t grow up here, it rains a lot in Seattle. Don’t need the laser light show or zip line but a covered canopy (and no cars) is all that’s going to make this a destination again. Or just let it crumble and get replaced with 7 story mixed up use development. Seattle really needs more nail salons.
So you pretty much just described the woonerf treatment that went in on Bell Street.
It’s a good treatment to be sure but it should not be considered a pedestrianization treatment. The woonerf treatment does improve safety and slow car speeds, and while those are good things, they are also not the primary goals of true pedestrianization.
It’s not a true woonerf: that’s its problem. The project was marketed as a woonerf but the street treatment was less than that. A true woonerf invites pedestrians and cars to share the street — like Pike Place. The actual treatment still has a curb that psychologically separates the sidewalk from the lane. So it’s a better-than-usual street but it still has a sense of separation between pedestrians and wheeled vehicles.
SDOT has said the treatment is partly because bus routes are still going through there, including RapidRide E if I remember. When the number of downtown buses is reduced after the recent and pending Link extensions, and 3rd Avenue is reconfigured, etc, then there will be an opportunity for buses to leave the Bell Street Park, and then it could be made more woonerf-like.
Part of that bus reconfiguration has been stalled because Move Seattle wasn’t able to convert as many routes to RapidRide as expected to reduce the number of total buses: RapidRide J and R are still under construction/planning, and RapidRide 40 and 62 were withdrawn. (Longer term there are plans for RapidRide 36 and 150, but that would be in the 2030s or 2040s. RapidRide 40 may come back after that.)
> Moving furniture for emergency access is also fraught with problems. Easily mobile furniture invites furniture theft. Requiring professionals to do the moving first can cost valuable minutes in an emergency response.
“While more restaurants will take advantage of the pedestrian space for additional outdoor seating, a 12ft lane should remain clear of furniture at all times. Unlike cars, people walking can easily move to the side when an emergency vehicle is using the street.”
And how often is an emergency vehicle on any one street. Once a month?
A transit mall solves these issues. Look at this picture in Wellington, New Zealand. Nice, right? Very pedestrian-oriented street. Lots of shops and people milling about. It looks quite a bit like The Ave, really, except without all those cars. At the same time, there are clearly buses and bus stops. It is easy to imagine bikes using the same street. But no cars at all on the main road. Oh, wait, yes there is. Turn around and go down the street and you have this. There is a truck, parked in the load/unload area (oh, the horror). So this section isn’t a pure transit mall. If you go further down, you can see the dividing line. Thus you have two sections — one is purely a transit mall, while the other part allows a handful of cars and trucks. Both are very nice. It is really hard to argue that the section without cars is much better. Keep in mind, this is a very auto-oriented city just like Seattle. The managed to provide an outstanding transit-corridor mixed with an outstanding pedestrian corridor while still allowing a handful of cars and trucks into part of it. We could do the same thing.
That Wellington picture looks so much like the shape of the University Bookstore on the right, and the lowrise stores on the left. The specific Varsity Theater is missing, and the two-story space next to it that was Tower Records/Nordstrom/Big 5, but it looks like the shops a block north or south of it.
Yes, we could make the Ave a transit mall, and move some of the 15th buses to it. The best routes to move to the Ave would be the local all-day ones rather than the suburban expresses. So 44, 48, 49, 70, but maybe not the 255 or 271, and particularly not the ST Express routes.
As someone who bikes for transport 99 percent of the time, I strongly agree with the idea of pedestrianizing the Ave. For bikes, I’d advocate for a protected bike lane on Brooklyn between Ravenna and Campus Parkway. It’s one block away from the Ave so if you bike to a destination on the Ave, it should be easy enough for you to park your bike nearby on Brooklyn and walk over.
Yes, that is what I suggested a decade ago. Brooklyn would have a great bike emphasis street. Instead SDOT has placed PBL on the Roosevelt couplet next to transit.
>> Instead SDOT has placed PBL on the Roosevelt couplet next to transit.
They could have installed PBLs on Brooklyn in addition to Roosevelt and 11th/12th, not instead. The couplet as you call it serves as the main travel corridor that connects downtown/Eastlake and NE Seattle while Brooklyn can be used for local trips.
The couplet serves as the main travel corridor that connects downtown/Eastlake and NE Seattle while Brooklyn can be used for local trips.
Yeah, although it wouldn’t be too hard to connect Brooklyn and Eastlake so you really wouldn’t need the Roosevelt Couplet for longer trips. Then, as you get past Ravenna you could jog over to 15th and follow that northward all the way to Lake City Way (and at least a little bit beyond) like so: https://maps.app.goo.gl/9Ex2ZpkmnxoaibMT8.
Would pedestrianizing the Ave preclude bicycles, if ridden safely and respectfully? There’s a ton of deliveries that can be made by bike, especially with growing availability of cargo e-bikes. I don’t see why those couldn’t be used for last-mile deliveries like food and small packages. As an added bonus, they can use rather than block bike lanes at their destinations!
If buses on the Ave. are to be moved to 15th, then they really need to fix the northbound stop at Campus Parkway, which, due to the interaction with the stoplights, has an effective capacity of only one bus per 2-3 minutes. I recall times when we sat in line for that stop as long as 10 minutes, while cars sailed by in the other lane, all to let just one person off the bus. Without mitigation, moving the Ave. buses to 15th would make the situation worse.
The issue is that the stop is on a very short block, only long enough for one bus, with long stoplights both before it and after it. So, the first bus must completely finish the stop and wait for the light to clear the second intersection before the first bus can even enter the first intersection.
The simple fix is to move the Campus Parkway bus stop north or south a block, or establish different bus stops for different routes a block apart, similar to the 3rd Ave. downtown. But, it does need to be fixed.
I agree, I think the best solution would be moving that stop south so it’s across from the SB 40th stop. I feel like moving it north would make it too close to the NB stop at 42nd, though maybe that’s an argument for doing a more comprehensive stop consolidation.
What about upzones? Why do nostalgia and surface parking lots count more than housing and expanding the capacity of the UW system to allow more students?
There have been upzones but this should be balanced with architectural preservation. You don’t want to lose the existing character and have it end up looking like the U-Village. The surface parking lots would definitely be up for development and there is no reason to limit the heights to match the older buildings.
Personally, I don’t feel like there’s any architecture on the Ave worth preserving. It is literally my favorite place in all of Seattle, but replacing everything with newer, taller buildings would make it even better.
Avoiding something like U Village (maybe my least favorite place in Seattle, now that I think of it) is easy if you eliminate the parking. Remove minimum parking requirements, raise parking taxes, ban cars from the Ave. I suppose there’s some danger that the retail on University Way would disappear, replaced by UW offices, but if zoning is good for anything, it can prevent that.
UW has long-term master plans. The Montlake parking lots are to be filled in with classrooms when the U is ready to expand that much. It’s on top of a toxic-waste dump, so cleaning it up enough for housing or large classroom buildings is expensive, and the university will do it only when it has filled out all other space.
There were previous master plans in south campus (south/southwest of routes 44/48) and Campus Parkway. The UW leveraged the 2020s recession to replace two dorm buildings on Campus Parkway with four. It densified south campus and the row west of Pacific Street in the 2010s and 2020s. That church at 15th & 43rd is gone, although I don’t know if it’s for university or private development. UW bought “Mount Safeco” (the highrise next to the U-District station; it how has UW offices.
Student enrollment has risen from 35,000 when I attended in the 80s and 90s, to 50,000 now. Dorm beds then were around 3,500; they’re 10,000 now.
In the 90s we started saying the university has an “edifice complex” because it started building more and more large buildings. It hasn’t stopped since. If you walk in at 43rd or 42nd or go down on Stevens Way west of the HUB, you see noticeably more buildings that used to be open space or smaller buildings.
The church was demolished for private development. I believe the project died due to COVID.
You’re counting the enrollment across all the campuses. For the Seattle campus the undergrad enrollment now is 36,000 which is pretty much the same as when I graduated in 1980. They’ve had to increase the University provided housing because housing/rents in Seattle have become unaffordable for students and there’s way more foreign students verses a good percentage back in the day who were from Seattle and lived at home.
It went from 35k to 50k counting undergrad + graduate
@bernie your second number you need to include graduate students as well
No, typically they don’t include grad students in the enrollment. But you can and the numbers haven’t changed. There we 36k undergrads in 1980 and there are 36k undergrads today (at the Seattle campus). There hasn’t been a huge increase in higher level degrees other than they now offer online programs (like a Masters in Civil Engineering). The student population has been relatively static for the last 45 years.
I checked the number to see if it was that main campus or all campuses, and it was the main campus. The other to were listed next to it.
The dorm growth is because one of the university presidents in the 90s and 00s wanted to put more of an emphasis on living on campus and reducing the U’s 70% commuter nature, which he saw as important to a good education. The dorms aren’t cheap now: you have to be a rich foreigner to afford one, and they include luxury amenities which drive up the price. One of the selling points is you’re on the campus’s high-speed internet, so people weigh that against the dorm price.
No doubt the dorm prices are high. Not the dirt cheap it was in the 70’s-80’s. I’ve heard stories though of students slammed 3 or more in rooms designed as “a dorm” to have only 2. But that reflects the lack of any cheap alternatives on the outside market. Yes, by design of a U President or just global economics the student demographic has changed. UW gets way more money with out of State tuition so there is that incentive. But given the limited number of spots and the relatively high prestige of a UW degree admission standards are much more strict than when I was able to attend. Net result is there is much less emphasis on “the experience” and way more on just knuckling down and attending to studies. So that changes “The Ave” and explains in part why other legacy venues have closed in recent years. UW is not a party school.
FWY, the link to the UW’s numbers. 36k undergrad.
Somewhere I found the 1980 numbers which matched what I recollected as being 36k. But this form Wikipedia, “From 1958 to 1973, the University of Washington saw a tremendous growth in student enrollment… UW student enrollment had more than doubled to 34,000 as the baby boom generation came of age.
There are more students living on campus and it’s become less of a commuter school. But that doesn’t translate to more “activation” of “The Ave” as has clearly been the case. Commuters actually make for a lunch time restaurant boom. The other problem for retail is the peak period, the summer, UW is not in session. The UW I’m sure has more employees but the area has also lost major employers. Like most of Seattle it’s become more of a retirement community, because those are the only people that can afford to live there.
It’s not really so much on a toxic-waste dump. The current environmental center is on what used to be a City dump. Really good exhibit there if you care to visit. All of the Montlake parking area used to be under water until they drained Lake Washington to complete the Ballard Locks project. Before that, the Montlake Cut was a portage; hence the name Portage Bay. Can’t build a real bridge because of the glacial silt but somehow they can put buildings there? Yeah, you could but not going to happen any time soon. UW has adopted the much more lucrative approach of branch campuses. And they need the parking for the Universities primary focus… Football!
And they need the parking for the Universities primary focus… Football!
It isn’t just football. They fill those parking lots every day. It is important to note that major universities — even public ones — operate like businesses. They make a huge amount of money from those parking spaces.
The biggest downside to this move is the increased distance between these routes and U District station.
You also have the increased distance between the bus stops and The Ave itself. You are basically bypassing the heart of the neighborhood (The Ave). Riders trying to travel down The Ave would have to walk over to 15th catch a bus and then walk back. Waiting at the bus stops on 15th isn’t as nice. Things have gotten better over time on 15th (it isn’t as ugly as it used to be) but it still isn’t as pleasant and interesting as waiting on the Ave. Then you have the development to the east. Like 15th, there used to be very little on Brooklyn. But it has seen an increased number of shops, restaurants and other amenities. North of 45th (and west of The Ave) the neighborhood is transforming. Old parking lots are being replaced by skyscrapers. This means a lot of people now live to the west. They want to access transit, and not just Link.
From a transit perspective, running on The Ave is the best option. Converting it to a transit mall (as Alex suggested) is a better option. That doesn’t mean every bus has to move there. But the buses that travel between 65th and Campus Parkway should follow that pathway. This also solve the problem of business access. Allow cars, but only with permits. We obviously get rid of a lot of parking which would make the sidewalks wider. Granville Mall (in Vancouver) is a local example. Another one is in Wellington New Zealand — the so called “Golden Mile“. Jarrett Walker wrote about that. We shouldn’t push transit to the edges and force it to run on the ugliest streets. This perpetuates the myth that transit makes a city uglier instead of nicer.
15th borders the actual campus plus there’s a lot of other stuff besides nostalgia there. The campus is to the east, the development is to the west where there are now a lot of UW clinics. The Ave really has nothing which is why it’s dying.
The Ave really has nothing which is why it’s dying.
Right, it has been dying since the 1950s. Pffffft. The Ave is the cultural center of the area. I realize there is a major university there but it is quite common to see more people along The Ave then on any walkway in campus outside of cherry blossom season. It also complements the campus. I’ve been to numerous plays at both the theater in the round (on campus) or the main playhouse on The Ave. My wife and I also used to be UW Husky Men’s basketball season ticket holders. This always included grabbing something to eat on The Ave and then heading to the game. I don’t think there is any way I convince my wife to go the games without the experience of The Ave. I would have gone, but it would have been a lot less enjoyable. Same goes with checking out the cherry blossoms — without The Ave it is a pretty boring experience.
Please move the 45 to Brooklyn Ave between Ravenna Blvd and Campus Parkway, not 15th.
The 45 would be an easy transfer at U District Station with at stop at 43rd and could even share the current 67 stop at Brooklyn & Campus Parkway.
Love this article by the way!
It would take work by the city to run buses on Brooklyn. Ideally The Ave becomes a transit mall and I think it would be easier for that to happen there then on Brooklyn. I think Brooklyn is better than 15th, but The Ave is just a bit better than Brooklyn.
The lack of discussion about using Brooklyn as a main transit thoroughfare is concerning. Anti-car zealots and bike nuts tend to mouth off the most.
Fact: Brooklyn was slated for Green Street development many years ago and it simply has not, and will not, ever happen. Brooklyn would adapt very simply and easily to bus transfers to and from the light rail station at 43rd with ample curb lanes for bus staging, very few storefronts, and numerous residential and office towers that benefit from transit. 15th has none of these stakeholders–it is best utilized as a North-South connector, as-is.
Alas, Brooklyn was paved during the light rail construction with the Green Street design that virtually disallows bus travel between 43rd and 45th. It’s almost Seattle leadership, SDOT, Metro, and Sound Transit operate as individual fiefdoms that blindly operate within their respective silos. Dan Strauss literally painted the magpie mural (photo-op only) at the epicenter of 43rd and University Way–where 43rd became the bloated, over engineered bus lane blight that destroyed a formerly friendly block where Samir’s Grill is. Oh yeah, and Dan was the Transportation Committee Chair and 100% ignorant of the lack of coordination between these agencies.
And if anyone believes that turning University Was into a so-called transit mall, might I suggest they take a nice stroll down 3rd Ave in downtown Seattle. If you don’t know what that entails and implies, then one is simply not qualified to speak on such matters.
The UW School of Urban Design and Planning is an excellent resource for exploring and education one’s self about this topic.
The City had better strengthen the Transportation Committee to include numerous stakeholders in the University District or we will continue to repeat our past pork-barreled mistakes.
And if anyone believes that turning University Was into a so-called transit mall, might I suggest they take a nice stroll down 3rd Ave in downtown Seattle. If you don’t know what that entails and implies, then one is simply not qualified to speak on such matters.
If you think that is the only transit mall in the world it is clear that you are not qualified to speak in such matters, either. No one is suggesting a four lane transit mall. They are suggesting a two lane mall, like the ones in Paris, Vancouver or Wellington (see previous comment).
But I think that is the problem. We are a provincial city. People don’t travel that much, even to our closest neighbor (Vancouver). So when people think “transit mall” they think 3rd Avenue not Granville, even though the latter is the obvious local equivalent in this situation. Here is a picture. Click the little arrows to move it up and down the street. You can see a ton of people, everywhere — including those casually jaywalking (because you can). I’m sure there are some who think “Sure, but that is just Vancouver — there are a ton of people out and about, on every street”. But look at the two adjacent streets: Seymour and Howe. There are some people, but not nearly as many. The main pedestrian street is the main transit street. Of course it is.
“And if anyone believes that turning University Was into a so-called transit mall, might I suggest they take a nice stroll down 3rd Ave in downtown Seattle. If you don’t know what that entails and implies”
“No one is suggesting a four lane transit mall”
I think he’s saying the transit mall destroyed the 3rd Avenue atmosphere so much it caused the proliferation of homeless people and dealers to hang out there, and if you turn University Way into a transit mall the same thing would happen there. That’s a ridiculous theory that keeps being repeated. Sketchy people congregate in certain places regardless of whether there’s buses there or not. And more cars don’t make the neighborhood better or make people on the sidewalks better behaved.
The problem with making Brooklyn the through transit street is that it doesn’t go through. It ends at Roosevelt High School.
15th and University merge in a really convenient way on the north side of the U District that allows the buses to continue northward with less cumbersome turns.
Maybe 62nd or 63rd could serve as the replacement diagonal connector?
Brooklyn goes down to Portage Bay, University Way stops at Pacific where nobody without a serious death wish would ride a bike. On the north side Brooklyn and University continue to Ravenna which is what really matters since there’s that nice center bike lane on that street.
Brooklyn goes down to Portage Bay, University Way stops at Pacific where nobody without a serious death wish would ride a bike.
Good point.
On the north side Brooklyn and University continue to Ravenna which is what really matters since there’s that nice center bike lane on that street.
Yes, and some cyclists want to keep going north. University ends at Ravenna although riders can continue north on 15th. Brooklyn keeps going until 66th (and the high school). It is also pretty easy to get from Brooklyn to 15th and could be easier with the addition of a stop sign and Greenway. For example I would put a stop sign at 62nd & 15th. Then you could easily dogleg over to 15th if you are going further north (https://maps.app.goo.gl/E1VTSVxccGMXuM3F8). But if you are just going the Roosevelt neighborhood you could keep going straight. At the same time, those biking on 15th or The Ave could still use 15th — the stop sign wouldn’t matter much (cyclists no longer have to make a full stop at stop signs).
Whenever possible, bike lanes and bus lanes should be on different streets. It is just easier that way. South of 65th, that would mean bus lanes on University Way and bike lanes on Brooklyn (all the way to the water). I would also have bike lanes on 15th north of 55th (if not 50th). That is the case right now but they could be better.
The more stop signs and sharp curves you add, the slower the bus routes are going to be.
Brooklyn would make an ideal through route for the routes moved off of The Ave, but I really don’t see how you’d want northbound buses to turn right onto Ravenna and then left to get to 25th without making some significant changes to that intersection.
Brooklyn north of Ravenna really isn’t wide enough to take a bus route.
The more stop signs and sharp curves you add, the slower the bus routes are going to be.
I think we are talking about two different things. Bernie and I are suggesting that cyclists would use Brooklyn like this. Meanwhile, buses would The Ave like so. This means that turning a 62nd & 15th into a four-way stop doesn’t slow down the buses. The buses don’t go that way. OK, actually, the 45 does go that way, but it shouldn’t. The 45 should turn on Roosevelt/11th instead of 15th and join the other buses. That way someone at this bus stop would be able to take any of the buses in the area heading south (the 45, 67, 77). It is worth noting that for a while, the 45 did go that way, so the turn(s) are easy.
If we moved the buses to Brooklyn (and I would not prefer that) then it is similar. The buses go like this while the bikes (I guess) go down The Ave and Cowen Place, like this. I just think that is worse for both transit riders and cyclists. If you go up Brooklyn you can access the neighborhood by just going straight. This makes it easy to access the area west of 15th. It is a quieter street as well. It is easy to turn left via the big traffic circle. In contrast, if you are on 15th you have to leave the protected bike lane and then cut across two lanes of car traffic. Even with a stop sign it is awkward. At some point you may have to use 15th (it is one of the few streets that continues north past 65th) but there is an advantage to doing that later. Then there is the other advantage Bernie mentioned (Brooklyn goes all the way to the water). Brooklyn just makes more sense as the bike street while The Ave makes more sense as the bus street. To be fair, moving the buses to Brooklyn is much better than moving the buses to 15th.
This has been tried in the past. Back in the 1960’s and 1970’s, cities both small and large closed streets and made pedestrian zones. They looked at the success of new regional malls and thought they could replicate that.
In many if not most cases it didn’t work. Many were converted back to carry traffic.
And in the past 20 years, even the attractiveness of shopping in regional malls has greatly faltered. Regional mall developers are even trying to recreate slow-speed, neighborhood shopping streets with curbside parking at former mall sites.
If you go to Downtown Redmond today, you would see real-world contrast between some very vibrant urban blocks on Cleveland Street and a barren outdoor pedestrian zone in nearby Redmond Town Center. All of this in a setting with many 6-8 story apartment buildings like much of Seattle.
The core problem is that while it improves safety it does so at the cost of vibrancy, especially at off hours. Even a block with no storefront vacancies can feel empty if there are no cars. I don’t think we have had societal mental shifts to result in anything but a similar outcome in many cases. The shopping center industry has long analyzed this concept, and often concluded that while it is awesome for pedestrian gathering spots, it doesn’t work so well as street corridors.
I don’t see that our society has changed in ways to reintroduce the pedestrian street as an improvement in most cases. In places mobbed with crowds it is great way to create a gathering spot. But for a generic commercial street it more likely won’t make things better.
“This has been tried in the past. Back in the 1960’s and 1970’s, cities both small and large closed streets and made pedestrian zones…. In many if not most cases it didn’t work. Many were converted back to carry traffic.”
That was specifically a late-20th-century American problem. Tacoma’s Broadway was another one. Europe has entire pedestrianized districts downtown that are full of shoppers and middle-class people. New York pedestrianized a couple blocks of Broadway a decade ago, and it’s been a huge success.
The reason the 20th-century pedestrianizations failed was they were done in a high automobile culture, without the number and range of walk-up destinations that would attract people, and often without good transit adjacent. Tacoma’s Broadway is one block from the center of downtown, but Tacoma’s transit is atrocious and was twice as bad then, there’s not a lot to walk to from there if you’re not a student, and there was much less to walk to then.
So pedestrianizations need to be done judiciously. Some criteria for success are: an existing pedestrian concentration, lots of walk-up shops/amenities that have real potential to draw people, and a cul-de-sac (not in the middle of bus thoroughfare).
So good candidates are Pike Place and Ballard Avenue. University Way has more tradeoffs. Some of these “festival streets” are potential candidates. SDOT is thinking about closing a couple blocks of SW Alaska Street in West Seattle. That’s right in a successful pedestrian/urban concentration, and rerouting the buses there would not distrupt them. The West Seattle Junction actually reminds me of the golden age of the Ave in the 80s and 90s.
There is nothing wrong with taking a street and turning into pedestrian-only. You just don’t want to do that with a street that could be made into a transit mall. Thus turning Pike Place or Ballard Avenue into a pedestrian mall is just fine. But you shouldn’t do that with (Seattle’s) Broadway or The Ave. Broadway and The Ave should be transit malls.
The one that Las Vegas put in is extremely popular and filled with small businesses competing (and winning) against nearby bordering casino resorts.
I didn’t say that it’s always a failure. There are successful examples. I merely pointed out that it’s often not a guaranteed success either. And the places that you are pointing out are major activity hubs with citywide draws rather than mere neighborhood shopping districts.
Surely places like Pike Place Market and Post Alley make sense. But that doesn’t mean it should be done everywhere.
Surely places like Pike Place Market and Post Alley make sense. But that doesn’t mean it should be done everywhere.
I agree. I think the main focus should be on improving transit by creating more transit malls or just bus lanes (like Paris has done). Yes, they’ve added pedestrian malls as well (and these make for the pretty pictures). But the thing that has changed the most in the city in the last 20 years is that the transit system has improved. As a result, a lot more people are taking transit and a lot fewer are driving.
Consider the Uptown neighborhood for example. It is not hard to think of streets that could easily be turned into pedestrian malls. Thomas or John for example, between the Seattle Center and Western. These are not significant streets from a traffic standpoint because they don’t go very far. They are relatively narrow and already have a lot of trees. Thomas would connect nicely to the overpass to the waterfront. You could walk from the Seattle Center — a pedestrian mall — to the Thomas Street Pedestrian mall and then cross over on a pedestrian bridge to the waterfront. Sounds great.
But I would much rather have the buses run unimpeded through the area. If that means a “transit-mall” with no other cars, great! Obviously that would be better for pedestrians as well. Only after doing that would I consider converting one of the north-south streets to a pedestrian mall.
I don’t agree with your characterization of Redmond Town Center as “barren”. Maybe we are going there at different times.
There are a lot of pedestrian-only streets in Europe and Asia that work very well. Why do they succeed there? What are they doing differently?
The problem with Redmond Town Center is it’s a private space like U Village or the Kent Commons. It pretends to be a town center but it’s really like being in a shopping mall. To be more well-used it would have to be more open to the surrounding streets, have more infrastructure to do something more than just walk from one shop to another on the other side, maybe have some plants that are themselves nice to look at and an ecosystem enhancement and another use, and publicly owned or at least encouraging all the uses a public space does.
In a post about pedestrianizing a Seattle street, when complaining about Redmond Town Center, it should be mentioned that NE 74th street, from 164th to 166th, which runs through the middle of the outdoor mall, was pedestrianized a decade ago. You can see the change on Street View. 2015: City street with parking on both sides. 2017: No cars allowed.
I believe neither the mall, nor the city, was the catalyst for the change. It was a grassroots campaign.
I lived in the U-District for 18 years, went regularly to the Ave for for about 30 years, and have gone at least a few times a year to the Ave for 47 years. I very much like having ultra-frequent buses running the full length of the Ave, so that bus stops are just steps from shops, and you can see the shops and urban ballet (Jane Jacobs’ term) from the bus. Now that a Link station is there, while I don’t directly transfer at 43rd, I’d like to see buses remain within a block of the station.
If all buses are moved to 15th, that would put them in a stroad-like environment, with too many cars and not enough sidewalk retail. Yes, SDOT has improved it with transit lanes, but that doesn’t change the aesthetic atmosphere of the street. We have a wonderful, well-functioning urban street just one block away, and the buses contribute to that atmosphere, so let’s not change what works.
Ideally it would be theoretically nice to fully pedestrianize the Ave, but I don’t think that’s really needed. I was there during the Ave renovation in 2000, which widened the sidewalks, created in-line bus stops, etc. That was a great improvement. We could do more of that. But I don’t think we need to embark on an uncertain experiment of fully pedestrianizing the Ave full time.
Pike Place should be pedestrianized, and is being pedestrianized in a short-term pilot that has been extended. That gives time for merchants and the public to assess its performance and recommend whether to pedestrianize it full time. There’s no bus route on Pike Place, and it doesn’t go to anywhere so it’s no place for a bus.
I agree on all points.
I agree. To add to that I think that reducing parking by widening the sidewalks and adding load zones would already take much of the traffic off the street. There’s really not much reason to drive on the Ave unless you are looking for parking, and any slowdowns are typically caused by people pulling in and out of parking spaces.
I’ve spent almost as much time as Mike Orr treading through The Ave (although I’ve never lived in the UD). There’s always a “vibe” to The Ave, and it feels to me like the current “vibe” on The Ave is as good as it’s ever been. The Link station and new residences have activated the neighborhood. The restaurant scene seems to be good and the number of vacancies is relatively low (compared to some of the bad eras). Also, the number of buses passing through The Ave per hour has been greatly reduced. Has that reduction been part of the reason The Ave seems to be thriving? Without the steady stream of articulated buses and the crowds of people clogging the sidewalks at the bus zones, it may be that strolling The Ave is a more pleasant experience.
The architecture of The Ave is also somewhat confining, particularly between 43rd and 47th: a narrow street with narrow sidewalks surrounded by relatively tall buildings that trap sound and ventilate poorly. That may be an argument in favor of pedestrianization; but it’s also an argument against moving transit back to The Ave.
>> it’s also an argument against moving transit back to The Ave.
Yeah, you wouldn’t want it to be like Paris (https://humantransit.org/2010/07/paris-the-street-is-ours.html). All those buses traveling through the city positively ruins it. Oh wait, it is the opposite.
The bus reduction is partly unintentional. When the 71/72/73X were running there was a daytime bus every 7 minutes, evenings 15 minutes. That was during the golden era and there weren’t too many buses. When the 45 replaced them and STBD funding arrived it ran every 10 minutes daytime. Now with the STB reduction it runs every 15 minutes daytime. So the thing you feel is a reduction in urbanism and convenience.
The Ave became somewhat depressed and unpleasant when the number of homeless loiterers increased around the 2010s, shops closed in the 2008 recession and were slow to come back, and both of those deterred some middle-class people from coming.
Then it got worse in the pandemic with tent clusters, and more people avoided the area and said they felt unsafe. After the complaints I spent a day walking the entire Ave and a few surrounding blocks to see what the actual situation was. There were no tents on the Ave itself, but there were in outlying areas like in that wooded street median at 15th & Ravenna Blvd, along the Burke-Gilman Trail, and my friend noted some other ones. There was nothing unsafe on the Ave itself but there were fewer pedestrians than usual.
Around that time the city closed part of the lower Ave for picnic tables and outdoor eating. I saw those but I don’t remember much about them, or whether they were during or after my walk.
I may have underestimated how much it has revived in the past three years, if I still have a lingering mental image of doldrums and notice the closed storefronts rather than the reopened ones. Do others think it has come back to its 2010s or 2000s thrive?
Another issue is that several unique independent businesses are gone, and more chains have opened. That gives fewer reasons to go to the Ave. For instance, I used to go to several used bookstores but only Magus is left, and the U Bookstore doesn’t have as wide a selection as it used to. I used to go to several record shops but I think only the one on 47th is left, and a newer one in a basement under the Neptune. Other shops I used to go to are gone, and some of the newer ones don’t interest me. So there’s no reason to go to the Ave for uses that are no longer there.
It’s come around in the past 2 years compared to when I was student in 2023-2024.
I first started visiting The Ave as a teenager, so that would have been in the 1970s. It has had its ups and downs but it still has a lot of character. It has avoided becoming dominated by chain stores. It has become a lot more Asian as the student population has become a lot more Asian. Overall I would say it is as strong as vibrant as ever. It has extended to the north as the overall neighborhood has grown. Of course folks miss the old stores (especially the old record stores) but there are new ones.
I would say the biggest weakness is the lack of buses. They’re there, just not enough of them. They should make it a transit mall.
Put it this way. Imagine the city decided to build a streetcar for the neighborhood. The idea being that streetcars not only provide a good form of public transportation, but they can really spruce up the neighborhood. Where you run it? On 15th, because we already have some BAT lanes? Or do you run it through The Ave, as the only vehicles on the street? It isn’t even close: You run it on The Ave.
I think one of the problems is that people aren’t that familiar with transit malls. They think of the one on Third, but that one is really wide. It is two lanes, both directions. I’m not suggesting that. I’m suggesting one lane, each direction, like this. As Mike pointed out above, this kinda looks like The Ave — on a good day. It is clearly vibrant. There are a lot of people out walking around. In contrast, this is another street in the same city (in a city where most people drive). Notice the picture from down the street. You have someone clearly jaywalking behind the bus. The point is, this is a very pedestrian-friendly environment. The fact that you have buses go back and forth doesn’t hurt at all. No, you can’t walk down the middle of the street but it is trivial to cross the street, anywhere. In general the buses help make the street *more* pedestrian friendly. The buses aren’t circulators — the connect to neighborhoods outside — but within this section they serve that purpose as well. Someone can walk the street one direction and then hop on a bus to get back — regardless of how they got there.
The sidewalks between 42nd and 45th are still too narrow if I remember: there’s often people who could walk two abreast but the sidewalk isn’t wide enough so they have to wait for each other. That’s where Jack’s suggestion of wider sidewalks could help.
I would say the narrow sidewalks are a problem at least as far north as 50th. I prefer walking on Brooklyn and then cutting over when I get to my destination because it’s just so frustrating being squeezed between people moseying along and traffic.
The Ave should be for students and fully pedestrianized. Buses can run on the parallel streets. It’s not hard to walk for most people and the character of The Ave would be so much better if it wasn’t a street for vehicles… Transit or cars.
It’s weird we view buses as something “better” than cars. With frequency they pose the exact same problem as cars to pedestrians and the character of a street… Maybe just less congestion. Keep the buses for people getting out of The Ave. Within The Ave, which isn’t very long, it should be walk only along with the U District Station entrance.
It’s weird we view buses as something “better” than cars.
I think it is weird that you wouldn’t. Mayors in places like Paris draw a big distinction. It is just common new urbanism — it the whole idea surrounding transit oriented development. You don’t treat transit like a sewage plant — a necessary evil that you push away from people. You embrace it, and put it in the middle of the action. Cars, on the other hand, are pushed away from people (as much as possible).
Buses are also operated by deeply trained and licensed commercial drivers, not your standard American driver who hasn’t had their reflexes tested since they were 16 years old.
From a transit perspective, the U-District is challenging. There are a number of different buses, and while the routes will likely change in the future, there are a bunch of areas that need to be served. For sake of argument I will assume there is a transit mall on The Ave or it is unchanged. These are the buses serving these areas:
1) Green Lake (45), Maple Leaf (67) and Lake City Way (77) converging onto the Roosevelt neighborhood and then continuing to the U-District.
2) 25th NE (372), 35th NE (65) and Sand Point Way (75) run through campus. These can layover at Campus Parkway but continuing to (at least) U-District Station is better.
3) Eastlake (70) and north Capitol Hill (49). These cross the University Bridge. The 49 is a trolley, so it runs on 15th (where there is wire). Eventually the 70 will be replaced by the J Line is weird. Its pathway through the U-District is weird (https://sdotblog.seattle.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/12/image-2.png). I see this as temporary. I think the bus should (and will) be extended past Roosevelt Station. I would have it continue on Roosevelt.
4) Central Area (48) and East Side buses (255, 271, 542) cross the Montlake Bridge. Some of these buses end close to UW Station. But the 48 continues past the U-District Station as does the 271 and 542.
5) Ballard (44). The 44 is also a trolley. It turns on 15th when heading west. It turns on 43rd and does an extra couple of turns when turning east.
6) Fremont (31/32). These buses eventually end up on 45th where they continue across the viaduct towards Children’s Hospital.
The first two set of buses are often through-routed (or interlined). This corridor — from roughly the Roosevelt Station to the southwest corner of U-Village — is a “spine” that should be enhanced. A rider should be able to catch one of several buses at say, 55th & The Ave and ride to the middle of campus. If all the routes are interlined you would have three routes following the corridor. You can provide the same level of service by overlapping as well (it just costs more money). Given fifteen minute frequency that means a bus every five minutes.
The corridor from the 45th & 15th to the UW Station is also a spine. You have the 44, 48 and (some) East Side buses. I think it is reasonable to assume that two buses from the East Side head to the U-District. We are at a low point when it comes to headways. In the future, I think it is fair to assume that all the buses in the area run at least every fifteen minutes. It seems likely that the 44 will eventually run every ten minutes. That means this spine would have around 18 buses an hour.
Combining the two spines would not be worth it my opinion and would actually be problematic and not benefit that many riders. The overlap is relatively short (between Campus Parkway and 45th). But you also have a lot of buses — probably too many for one lane each direction. The 49 also uses 15th. Thus you would have more than 20 buses every hour on 15th, even before you try and add the buses that run on The Ave. Thus if you closed off The Ave to buses it might lead to considerable backups for the buses. The same is true if you created a transit mall and tried to move *all* the buses there. I would do neither. I would create the transit mall but only move *some* of the buses there (those in the first spine). That is really where you get the most value. The other buses can continue to use 15th.
In 1976, Londrina, Brasil converted a congested urban street into a pedestrian thoroughfare. It’s now the busiest commercial street in the city due to the ease of access provided by getting rid of the auto traffic.
Vehicles that need to get there are still able to do so. It’s just like driving in Pioneer Square: if there is a compelling need for something to drive there, it can still happen.
A few photos are here:
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/Cal%C3%A7ad%C3%A3o-londrina.html?sortBy=relevant
This is a great idea and will help the local businesses! Let the mayor and city council know how you feel.
During Covid, SDOT tried to convert several streets like this. Most have reverted back.
There was also discussion about doing this to Pike Street in Capitol Hill. What’s going on with that?
No one is talking about North Broadway.
SDOT was pushing for a two way couplet on pike/pine to be extended into Capitol hill
“North” Broadway—i.e., Broadway E, the part north of E Denny Way—is quite neglected. It’s crazy that a street with that many destinations and so much pedestrian traffic and density is still blighted by street parking and mediocre bus service. The only thing keeping it from being a total traffic sewer (with the resulting pedestrian injuries and deaths) is that the blocks are short enough to slow down traffic with red lights, and 12th Ave splits a lot of the traffic.
In terms of infrastructure treatments I see three options:
1) Remove the on-street parking and turn lane in lieu of bike lanes. This does little for transit.
2) Since 12th Ave E is getting a protected bike lane extension, we could convert the parking and turn lane to bike-allowed bus lanes. This is probably better for bikes than what we have now.
3) Even better, we could turn Broadway into a transit mall and still have enough space for a protected bike lane extension up the length of Broadway E. I bet you could even prove that Broadway carries more people in non-SOV modes, right now! Similar to the Ave, there’s a parallel arterial on 12 Ave (E) that can pick up most of the diverted SOV trips. This would be great for the streetcar as well if it’s too politically difficult to axe it for better bus service.
Any of these, but especially (3), should be combined with a re-route that sends the 43 and 49 all the way down Broadway until they turn on James St or Yesler Way, and maybe a removal of the 60’s hook detour onto 9th Ave.
There is also a fourth option, which is to cram in one two-way protected bike lane (PBL), two bus and turn lanes, and two general purpose lanes. There might actually be room for this, since I just remembered that bits of Broadway with the PBL still have about a lane’s worth of on-street parking (which is insane!) This idea is probably worth a separate post.
Another option might be to introduce traffic diverter somewhere on Broadway to take most traffic off the street. Something like a “must turn right except buses” restriction on Madison or Pine.
isn’t most of this the same as the streetcar extension design?
Yes, this has a lot of overlap with the streetcar extension design, but I am assuming the extension won’t happen and looking at the remaining possibilities. The same design principles should apply either way: 1) any streetcar or bus alignment should be on mostly reserved ROW, 2) non-major intersecting streets should be closed to through-traffic or (better) subject to a modal filter somewhere down the line, and 3) if you have space for bikes or parking, you should prioritize bikes.
The existing streetcar alignment and road condition on Broadway follows none of these principles, other than on E Union St, where there is a modal filter (E Denny Way/E Barbara Bailey Way and E Howell St would be a good places to add more of these). It almost appears that they chose parking over reserved lanes (i.e., there’s enough space for reserved a lane) although I haven’t read the original design documents and would love a correction on this if it’s wrong.
Yes, option 3 is the best — turn Broadway into a transit mall. The same thing is true with The Ave — turn it into a transit mall. There are similarities.
The one-way project is still planned. The last phase extended the one-way system to Melrose Ave (and a block further eastbound). The next phase is to extend it to Broadway.
The last administration mused about a pedestrian superblock between Union and Pine, Broadway and 11th. No decision was made, and it’s unclear whether the city will pursue it further.
10th Avenue backs into Cal Anderson Park at Pine Street, so it’s not a through street anyway. So it wouldn’t block any north-south buses. It would block east-west buses unless there are bus lanes through. This Urbanist article says there would likely be a westbound bus lane on Pine. It doesn’t address the eastbound Pike Street buses (now 10 and 12).
No, not a pedestrian mall; instead, improve the Ave for both pedestrians and transit.
University Way NE has been the main transit corridor for 120 years through several modes: streetcar, electric trolleybus, diesel bus, dual mode bus, hybrid bus; now, bus transit should provide proximate transfers with Link. The Ave was just rebuilt in the aughts similar to Madison and Eastlake: mew utilities and thick concrete.
Here are steps to consider; it will take time, process, and funding. (The transportation levy does not target the Ave).
Add about two feet to the sidewalks, to the level of the bus bulbs. Retain a short term load zone on each block.
Have social housing and SDOT redevelop the Temple bock at the southeast corner of 15th Avenue NE and NE 43rd Street with short term metered parking below several layers of wood frame housing.
Improve NE 43rd Street. Expand the south side PBL to two-way; cash in some the greenery. Today, westbound bikes mix with transit. There is a pocket hazard at 12th Avenue nE with bikes to the right of right turning buses.
Add an all-walk cycle to the Ave signal (Barne’s Dance).
Keep the electric trolleybus routes on NE 43rd Street and 15th Avenue NE. Routes oriented to SR-520 would continue to use 15th.
The Ave could have more routes; they should include those oriented northeast past the UW stadium Link station, UWMC, and U Village: 65, 72, 75, 372, or their successor routes. All could use the pathway of the current Route 65. Routes 45, 74, 79 should remain. Routes 31 and 31 could lay on the Pacific Triangle and not be hooked with the Children’s service. The reliability issues of the Fremont bridge should be isolated. The children’s service could be Route 30; it could even be extended across SR-520. I hope routes 65 and 75 are extended to Shoreline CC via Lake City and Link stations, so to keep them of a reasonable length, U Heights could be their terminal. RossB has suggested a better future for Route 67.
The architectural treatments from the aughts are stale. The horse hitching posts are in the way.
Isn’t the U District station pretty deep?
Most of the places I’ve been with deep stations (Atlanta, London, Moscow, São Paulo) use the depth to their advantage, and have multiple entrances. Some of these can be some blocks from the actual station.
Ideally, U District station would have an entrance on 15th, to get passengers closer to the buses running there.
It’d be expensive to add, but it seems like it’d be well worth the expense.
That way, the 76, 76 and 45 could be on 15th as well.
The station box is wedged between Brooklyn’s building foundations with inches of clearance. I don’t know if you could cut an underground path from there two blocks east to 15th. Theoretically you could have an entrance on the west side of the Ave, but that would take out the Varsity Theater, which is one of the Ave’s gems.
It’d be disruptive, but maybe something could be built under 43rd?
It’s only 85 feet deep, so that doesn’t lend itself to stuff like the Peachtree station on MARTA, where really long escalators from the platform can reach quite some distance away.
Was one of it’s gems?
Varsity Theatre to close after 85 years
I think people often oversimplify the concept of Transit Oriented Development. They think of it as adding a new set of six-story apartments in the burbs next to a new transit center. It includes that, but it is a lot more than that. To quote some sentences from Wikipedia:
It promotes a symbiotic relationship between dense, compact urban form and public transport use. TOD is also typically designed to be more walkable than other built-up areas, by using smaller block sizes and reducing the land area dedicated to automobiles.
Turning The Ave into a transit mall would do all that. It would be transit-oriented-development. It would be a lot more difficult to do that on 15th.
“I think people often oversimplify the concept of Transit Oriented Development. They think of it as adding a new set of six-story apartments in the burbs next to a new transit center. It includes that, but it is a lot more than that. ”
I agree. It still amazes me how often I read post responses here on STB that think that TOD is only about residential with perhaps ground level retail. When I suggest that the outer Link stations need to have more activity destinations easily walkable from them, the suggestion is often ignored or panned. So much of ST3 outside of Seattle was based on offering more park and ride facilities with a few residential TOD projects next to stations. There still is a mindset problem that people see Link mainly as a commuter train to get to Central Seattle, UW or Downtown Bellevue — and can’t seem to envision that its success ultimately requires two-way, all-day reasons to use it several times a day.
> I agree. It still amazes me how often I read post responses here on STB that think that TOD is only about residential with perhaps ground level retail.
I mean we talk about that because many stations lack even that bare minimum like star lake station etc…
Having apartments is the best and also what we need to argue for most of the time. Most cities easily approve retail or office parks but find it much harder to approve housing.
We’re not going to discuss running when one is not even able to jog yet.
My father worked with the Downtown Tacoma Association in the 1970s to try to make a car-less project they called the Broadway Plaza. It did not stop retail flight and was generally a failure. I long ago concluded that the only way to re-engage community business and retail had to involve general pricing, and not just a little game with right-of-way changes. My more detailed expectation now is that a general poliicy of financial egalitarianism is required. This of course allies with the dodgingly named theory of “perfect competition” which we have all long ignored while claiming to support. If you want to fix it, look there.
Ya lost me with most of the lingo but having grown up in Tacoma I can spew forth why it went into a tailspin and no amount of street changes or transit was going to help. Tacoma lost it’s blue collar jobs. It also later lost Russell Investments but that’s chapter 2. Tacoma, given the hand it has had to play has done a good job with the DT; museums, waterfront festivals, UW Tacoma, etc. I’ve made it a point over the last several years to visit DT Tacoma… the Ave, not so much.