On February 26, Sound Transit announced the ground-breaking of Stride 3 BRT construction. Stride 3 BRT will be a new avenue running BRT on SR 522 (Bothell Way) from Seattle/Shoreline via Lake Forest Park and Kenmore to Bothell. The Stride 3 will connect the north Lake Washington corridor to the regional rail spine. The bus will run every 10 to 15 minutes and stop at 14 stations. This article will go over the choices for the Seattle to Kenmore segment and review the design plots released by Sound Transit.
145th Street vs Lake City Way NE Alignment
We’ll start with a very brief history of the alignment of the western section. (The Woodinville segment will be discussed in the next article).
Originally the Sound Transit 2005 Long Range plan called for a high capacity transit (tram or BRT) starting from Roosevelt Station north up Lake City Way NE and then continuing north on Bothell Way through Lake Forest Park and then ending at Bothell. The 2014 plan started considering ending the high capacity transit (will say BRT from now on) at Northgate Station instead using Northgate Way.
In 2015, the Lynnwood Link FEIS was released, establishing the Shoreline South Station next to I-5 & 145th Street. Prior to the FEIS, Sound Transit was unsure if the Lynnwood Link extension would be built on Aurora Avenue or along I-5. Even after selecting the I-5 alignment, the draft Lynnwood Link EIS left the specific set of station locations at N 185th, N 155th, NE 145th and N 130th stations along I-5 undecided. After the 145th Street (Shoreline South) station was confirmed, the SR-522 BRT project was modified terminate at the new station by routing its western leg along NE 145th street instead.
Shoreline South Terminus
The Stride 3 BRT will start from Shoreline South Link station and head east on NE 145th Street. Most riders from Bothell, Kenmore, and Lake Forest Park will transfer here for Link light rail and head further south to downtown Seattle.
The first stop is at 15th Ave NE, next to the Goodwill and QFC. There’s a couple garden-style apartments both to the north and east.
Lake City Stations
Near the Lake City neighborhood there will be two stops, the 30th Avenue stop and the NE 153rd Street stop. The Lake City neighborhood features a significant concentration of apartments and townhouses, providing a decent residential base for the BRT.
The 30th Avenue stop will serve as the primary BRT stop for Lake City neighborhood. Located 1000 ft / 0.2 miles away from the SR 522/NE145th intersection, the stop is much closer than the NE 153rd street station which sits 0.45 miles north of the intersection.
Lost SR 522 & NE 145th Station Pair
Originally, NE 145th Street was slated for widening from 5 to 6 lanes. This would allow 2 westbound general lanes and in the eastbound direction 2 left turn lanes, 1 through lane/ left turn bus lane, and 1 right turn lane. Crucially, this 6-lane footprint would have allowed a dedicated station pair just north of the intersection.
However, the design was scaled back to maintain the existing 5-lane width. To preserve the new second eastbound left turn lane, planners removed one westbound general lane and eliminated the originally proposed SR 522 & NE 145th station pair.
Moved bus stops have pink arrow
Here is an overview of the stations have been removed or shifted from 2019 refined design diagram. The 25th Ave NE & NE 145th bus stop was shifted to 5 blocks east to the 30th Ave NE, while the station pair at SR 522 & NE 145th in Lake City was completely removed.
Lake Forest Park
On the southern edge of Lake Forest Park, the city will have two additional stops. One stop at NE 165th Street and then a major bus station Ballinger Way (formerly labeled “Lake Forest Park Town Center”).
The NE 165th St bus stations will be on the far side of the intersection.
The Ballinger Way bus station will be placed on the west-side of Ballinger Way. The stop will provide access to the shopping center Town Center at Lake Forest Park, holding a cluster of around 40 shops and businesses. In addition to retail, the stop also serves civic facilities such as the city hall, the police department, and the local library. To support future growth, the city zoned TOD for new apartments and Sound Transit plans include building 300-space parking garage.
Bothell Way BAT lane and pushback
The design on Bothell Way mostly called for curbside BAT lanes on the right side. There would be 7 lanes in total: 4 general lanes (2 in each direction), 2 curbside bus/BAT lane (1 in each direction ) and finally 1 center turn lane for left turns. There was some pushback for adding BAT lanes throughout the corridor in Bothell, Kenmore and Lake Forest Park. Most prominently in Lake Forest Park where there was heavy debate between property takings on the south-side, removing trees within the public right-of-way on the north-side, or most worryingly removing the BAT lanes and subjecting bus riders with heavy traffic.
Ultimately, Sound Transit committed to continuous BAT lanes throughout the corridor by using public right-of-way while seeking to minimize property takings. These ~5 miles of BAT lanes along the corridor will ensure that the bus remains fast and reliable.
We’ll continue with Kenmore and Bothell segments in the next article.
Conclusion
Stride 3 BRT will help connect Shoreline, Lake Forest Park, and the regional transit network. The commitment to continuous BAT lanes ensures that the bus remains fast and efficient for riders to reach Shoreline South Link station.
Send the route 522 to downtown seattle not 148th station it’s too short next to the UW bothell
If a rider from Bothell is wanting to go to Downtown Seattle, going to 148th likely won’t be significantly faster than going to Roosevelt would be.
Once Pinehurst Station opens in a few months, the train ride between Roosevelt and Shoreline South/ 148th will take 10 minutes. The published schedules today suggest that the 145th segment will take about 6 minutes — while Route 522 today takes 16 minutes to go from the 145th corner to Roosevelt station.
While changes to traffic signals and volumes could make a little difference, I don’t think that it would affect bus travel times much except in the peak of the peak. Probably the biggest trip time savings will come from the vertical distance being less at Shoreline South/ 148th than it is at Roosevelt.
Of course, ST3 is rife with projects that will result in even or slower total transit travel times for most affected trips. ST of course cherry picked the few trip pairs made faster (ignoring time changing levels inside stations) and lifted them up to the voting public in 2016 (and was silent about how it would affect other trip pairs). The public was sold a map in ST3; not a schedule.
“Send the route 522 to downtown seattle”
Have you seen the congestion all afternoon southbound, the pockets alternating between Northgate, 45th, and/or South Lake Union? Or northbound where people are getting onto 520 and at 45th? Link bypasses all those. The express lanes don’t help when they’re going in the wrong direction.
Hmm true but the route 522 and N 148th station turns left to 145th and straight up to the Lake City Way NE between Bothell so the route 522 used to run in downtown seattle for 15 mins with off-peak and terminate at Roosevelt Station when the stations are open.
Looks like the residents of Lake City living south of 145th and Lake City Way formerly served by the 522 bus will soon lose an essential transit service to downtown.
Yeah. Sound Transit even deleted the station at Lake City Way and 145th, as if to reinforce that Lake City residents don’t deserve any transit improvements.
Between that, deleting the Woodinville tail, and ending at 148th, this BRT will be a significant downgrade in service for most riders.
No kidding, Lake City and Woodinville got screwed. But people are dying to use the NE 153rd Street stop.
I’m absolutely positive that when they build Ballard to Northgate Light Rail it will continue on to Lake City to serve it that way. right?
so yeah.. Lake City gets screwed – Unless Metro picks it up in some way.
Route 72?
ST’s long-range plan has a Northgate-Lake City-Bothell light rail corridor eventually. It has never said it would be connected to Ballard. Seattle Subway and some commentators here have suggested extending Ballard Link northeast on Holman Road to Northgate, Lake City, and Bothell, but ST has never acknowledge this concept.
ST has other concepts for serving Kirkland, one that would go from U-District east of the current corridor north to Lake City (east of the current alignment; e.g., 35th Ave NE), Bothell, and back around to Kirkland. That could be attached to a Ballard-UW line, but ST hasn’t looked at the two study areas together.
The Ballard-UW study was combined with the UW-Redmond study (it said UW-Redmond was too close to East Link and would cannibalize riders from it). Other concepts are UW-520-Kirkland or UW-Sand-Point-Kirkland, or extending the Issaquah line to downtown Kirkland: any of these could be extended further north to Bothell. But none of these would serve Lake City.
None of these are likely given ST’s huge ST3 goals that might require ST4 funding, and whatever else ST might want in ST4. (Renton seems like it should get higher priority, being one of the largest cities in East/South King County now, and being an equity area. Who knows if that will boost its chances for the WSJ-Burien-Renton Link extension or something else in ST4.)
“None of these are likely given ST’s huge ST3 goals that might require ST4 funding,”
You’d need permit and infrastructure financing reforms at the state level to make it a reality for ST. The state badly needs to do that anyway, but it’d probably fix a significant chunk of cost bloat we’ve been seeing since the approval of ST3. Letting ST have better and easier access to capital sooner means less cost overruns and less robbing Peter to pay Paul for future funding to complete projects.
Something the state should be behind anyway since transit here is one of the main reasons we’re still doing fine as an economy and is helping drive more dollars into state’s coffers as we build new housing, add jobs, and new business opportunities open from transit being here.
With WS/BLE we’re in a position where passengers may be better off if it weren’t built. The downtown Link-to-Link transfer situation is entirely within ST’s control and a basic component of a rail line alignment. Yet ST hasn’t taken one step to improve the disasterous proposed transfers at Westlake, Pioneer Square, missing transfer at CID, Stadium or SODO. That should be its first priority, and then it could regain the support of transit fans like me. Or ST could just cancel BLE and WSLE, and then most of its ST3 affordability issues would vanish, and then we could have a discussion of how we could improve Ballard and West Seattle transit without Link, and how ST could contribute much less to whatever those solutions are.
With WS/BLE we’re in a position where passengers may be better off if it weren’t built.
Same is true with Stride 3.
hi Adel, there will be the future route 77 and route 72 for lake city.
* Route 72 from Shoreline South/148th Station via Lake City to University District
* Route 77 from Bitter Lake via NE 130th station and Lake City to University District
https://cdn.kingcounty.gov/-/media/king-county/depts/metro/documents/projects/lynnwood-link-connections/routes/077.pdf
https://cdn.kingcounty.gov/-/media/king-county/depts/metro/documents/projects/lynnwood-link-connections/routes/072.pdf
Ross wrote a couple articles in the past about them, but perhaps we can do another article about the future lake city bus routes in detail if there’s interest.
At best, that keeps existing service. Metro is being forced to spend significant money to backfill existing service, because Sound Transit has decided to deny service to Lake City.
Lake City was never in the 522’s primary service area. It was to give ST service to Woodinville, Bothell, Kenmore, and LFP. The only reason it went through Lake City is its predecessor the 307 did, and Bothell/Lake City Way goes straight to the I-5 express lanes. Seattle’s Sound Transit investment is Link.
Metro is being forced to spend significant money to backfill existing service, because Sound Transit has decided to deny service to Lake City.
Exactly. Not only that, but even with the extra spending there is only so much you can do. Riders will lose their one seat ride to Roosevelt (and a one-seat ride to the U-District that would have been easy to provide).
Lake City was never in the 522’s primary service area. It was to give ST service to Woodinville, Bothell, Kenmore, and LFP.
Right. So folks north of the lake are cutting off their nose to spite their face. OK, they aren’t doing it — ST is doing it. This routing will be worse for a lot of riders in Woodinville, Bothell, Kenmore, LFP *and* Lake City. Oops.
It is a great example of the dysfunctional nature of transit around here. First you have a ridiculous level of provincialism. This one little areas gets to decide the bus routes? Based on what? A poll? How absurd.
This is also not a cross-agency route (it isn’t like the 590). It looks and operates very much like a Metro bus. It is weird enough that ST operates the subway (instead of Metro) but ST is also running routes that are basically just Metro routes with different colored buses.
Given that you would at least think there would be more cooperation between the agencies. Metro could get ST to do the right thing and send the buses to the U-District. After all, the ST board contains members of the King County Council. Metro is part of the county and routes are ultimately determined by the council. Oh, and at the time the head of the ST Board was also the head of the county. Yet somehow the two agencies just did their own thing. Even the planners seemed unaware of the change (they initially didn’t offer any service for Lake City Way).
The only good news is that ST could always change their mind. Ten years from now they could decide to send the buses to the U-District. We can only hope.
In reviewing the ST3 diagram, I noticed that it shows continued ST Express service on LCW. See page 6 here:
https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/project-documents/st3-system-plan-2016.pdf
It’s however not itemized in the table in Appendix A.
Al, I think that’s “current” service lumped with “planned” service. You can also see the same grey line across I-90 and to Issaquah, when it would make little sense to continue running ST Express there after those lines open. I think the reason the STX lines are gray is is a subtle cue that those lines would not last forever.
@AL
from the stride website
* The S1 Line will replace ST Express 560 between West Seattle and Bellevue.
* The S2 Line will replace the ST Express 535 between Bellevue and Lynnwood.
* The S3 Line will replace ST Express 522 between Seattle and Woodinville.
https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/stride-bus-rapid-transit
“With WS/BLE we’re in a position where passengers may be better off if it weren’t built.”
As I have said in the past, axe West Seattle, and as everyone has said in the past, truncate and automate Ballard.
And S3 does seem pointless.
@ Nathan:
Yes I noticed that language.
The diagram says “Current AND Planned Service”. It should have said “Current OR Planned Service” to be accurate. The way I could read this is that it promises that ST would continue operating the existing service segment in some form.
I would consider it deceitful to show a future system map diagram that features new service prominently on it, while intending to delete other services but not make eliminated service segments a separate layer.
I realize that it’s not a perfect map and that the plan was to eliminate the current route as stated elsewhere. I’m mainly just calling out how the map suggests that ST would still provide the service.
That gray layer on the ST3 map is potentially problematic in other situations, as it could be interpreted that ST would not abandon some of the other segments also shown on the map, like Westwood to Burien or some routes that someday will parallel new Link or Stride lines.
And as an adopted referendum document, I even wonder if a rider could sue to have some service restored or if another agency could coerce ST into subsidizing replacement service. And the map could be considered as accurate once overnight bus service operates on some of these corridor segments otherwise replaced by Link.
@ Wesley:
The description of Stride on the ST web site doesn’t have the potential legal exposure that a referendum document would have.
ST has debated whether they had to be consistent with the ST3 plan in the past, but that went up in smoke when the Board voted to move the transfer point from the ID. It’s likely why the current preferred alternative is called CID North rather than Pioneer Square East — which it more accurately is.
“The diagram says “Current AND Planned Service”. It should have said “Current OR Planned Service” to be accurate.”
Normal usage is “and” in this kind of case. “Or” could suggest uncertainty in whether each line is one or the other.
Thanks. Looking forward to the next installment that covers the eastern end of the route. I’m not sure how Woodinville loses anything with S3 that we had with ST522. The existing 522 service ends at UW-Bothell for half of the runs and the other half continue on to Woodinville P&R.
When I lived in Woodinville I had a one seat ride to DT Seattle. After this change you’d have to maybe somehow get to the “Transit Center” in the middle of the 405/522 interchange and transfer to a bus so that you can transfer again to a train in Shoreline. Or, if there’s direct service, probably faster to go to DT Bellevue and transfer to the 2 Line. Even if you have to get to the 405/522 “Transit Center” it would probably still be faster to transfer to the 405 Bellevue Stride than go around the north end of the Lake.
Bernie, you can also use the 256 and take advantage of the SR 520 routing. You can also use the CT 424 which is set to be replaced (idk when).
The 256 only runs a handful of times a day. I think Bernie is right, the best option (for now) is likely a bus to Bellevue and then Link to downtown. It is probably easiest to get to the UW via Downtown Bellevue as well. You can catch the 271 from there. That is a lot of backtracking but at least the 271 will be really frequent. Oh wait, it won’t be.
Clearly this is a big deterioration for Woodinville and there is no good plan for fixing it. (Another reason to run an express bus from Woodinville to the UW via 405 and 520.)
A bus from Woodinville to Redmond would be great. Either DT or Marymoor; preferably DT. From DT Redmond which is it’s own destination there’s Link to M$FT, Bellevue & Seattle. Presumably there will be fast frequent connection to DT Kirkland crossing 405 on 85th at the fancy peanut interchange. Problem is there is no reliably fast route from Redmond to Woodinville in the morning or evening. 202 (Woodinville Redmond Rd) backs up at 124th and is a mess getting in and through Redmond. Diverting to Willows Rd at 124th is a little better and there is a lot of employment along Willows plus it crosses RR-B at 148th Ave/90th St. Diverting to Avondale doesn’t help at all because you end up stuck where Novelty Hill Rd comes in and then you have to somehow get all the way cross town (Transit Center) or across 202 (Marymoor) and there’s next to nothing out there. There was RR ROW from Redmond TC to Woodinville but the chance to use that as any sort of transit corridor is long gone.
Bernie is correct. The transit agencies have degraded Woodinville service. A bit before the North Link restructure, ST reduced evening service on Route 522 to pay for additional peak turnback trips; so, the evening service was actually less than it had been with the old Route 307 in 2002. Metro truncated Route 372 and gave the North Creek area Route 238. But in March 2020, the North Eastside project deleted Route 238 and substituted Route 230 that did not extend to Woodinville. The first version of Stride3 had only half its trips extend to/from Woodinville; that had a reliability issue; so, the ST solution was not to extend all trips to/from Woodinville, but to end all trips at a made up terminal under I-405 and provide Woodinville a made up shuttle. I hope the ST3 reset under the Enterprise Initiative actually spends more service hours on Stride3 and extends all trips to/from Woodinville. It is a real place inside the ST district with multifamily housing, retail, and transit connections. ST would have to buy a few more BEB.
“You can also use the CT 424 which is set to be replaced (idk when).”
Probably no later than this Fall.
The 424 detour in Monroe last year was meant to prepare Snohomish peak express for double decker. In one of the Community Transit board meetings, it mentioned that it will start running after 2 Line cross lake opening.
With the exception of Dairy Queen the 424 doesn’t serve any Woodinville destinations. Unless someone is dropping you off or you poach parking there’s no there there; it’s a flyer stop with nothing around it.
It may take years or even decades, but I don’t see the region’s transit system not ultimately offering a frequent one-seat express bus ride between Woodinville and Link.
As Link fully comes on line this year, I think much of the region will want to see every bus route connect to Link somewhere unless Link is just too far away. It’s just too high-volume and frequent of a service to ignore.
It remains to be seen which Link connecting station will work best for Woodinville. A wait-and-see approach might actually be better for Woodinville in the long-run as the service can be developed to attract riders rather than voters.
I disagree with how much ST and Metro are prioritizing Link connections over neighborhood connections. It doesn’t make sense for a trip between Lake City and Kenmore, or LFP to U Village, to involve Link.
I doesn’t mean the trip between Lake City and Kenmore directly involves Link. It just means that the route will at the Lake City end extend to the new Link station at 130th. It would be crazy not to do so because more people in Lake City and Kenmore want to go to DT Seattle (or other Link destinations) than there are simple neighborhood to neighborhood trips. In that particular example the connection really should be leveraging Stride but unfortunately ST decided to play hand grenades instead of horseshoes.
“I think much of the region will want to see every bus route connect to Link somewhere unless Link is just too far away. ”
That’s what cities like Chicago do and Metro has been doing in its restructures. But it may not be every single route in the network, just 95% of them. And it’s not possible in Pugetopolis yet. The Chicago L has 8 lines and and many more stations throughout the city that a bus route could meet. Link will soon have 2 lines, and it doesn’t reach the western half of Seattle or the eastern two thirds of South King County. In some cases it’s unreasonable for a bus route to go far out of its way to meet Link, and it wouldn’t make sense for passengers going to a regional destination; they’d be better off transferring to an express to either a Link station or their ultimate destination. For instance, local routes in Kirkland other than the 255 or future K. Future I doesn’t connect to Link and runs parallel to it. We’ve suggested extending it to Rainier Beach station but Metro isn’t having it at this time. Detouring west from Renton to TIB, SeaTac, or KDM doesn’t make sense because Link is so far west, and the Rainier Valley overhead and east-west detour compound Link’s travel-time handicap.
Routes that go to downtown Seattle do meet Link, but people may not want to take a bus several slow miles to get to Link when there’s another way that’s more efficient for their trip.
The key is to make a good network. Link is a big part of that network, but it is just one part. That is the failing with this route. They focused only on Link. If this route continued to the U-District it would connect to a much bigger part of the network (as well as much bigger destinations) while still retaining that Link connection.
As for Woodinville, it is quite a ways from any Link station. The closest station is Redmond but it doesn’t make sense to take a bus to Redmond if you are headed anywhere on Link (even though there is a station there). It is also not particularly fast nor is there much in between the two locations — the worst of both worlds.
I think the best option for Woodinville is a combination of things. Do what Mike mentioned earlier. Run an all-day express from the UW to Woodinville (via 520 and 405). That gets riders to Seattle fairly quickly. It also picks up Totem Lake and riders willing to walk from UW Bothell to the interchange station. The combination justifies the route. An express to Downtown Bellevue during peak is worthy — otherwise this Woodinville-UW express gets you an easy two-seat ride to Downtown Bellevue via Stride 2 (with a same direction transfer at Totem Lake). Of course riders want to make trips to Bothell and Kenmore. This doesn’t have to be done as an extension. It is quite reasonable for riders to transfer via Stride 1 to other locations (like Lake Forest Park and … um … parts of Shoreline). I could even just see an all-day 15-minute bus from Bothell to Woodinville. The tricky part is laying over — maybe a live loop like so: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lmmt3t5nrhx8A1mg9. That runs by a lot of apartments while getting riders pretty close to the college as well. Throw in some less frequent local service (like a direct bus to Redmond) and it seems pretty good. It is designed more around major destinations (Downtown Bellevue and the UW) and local destinations (Woodinville/Bothell) than Link stations. Yet it still makes connections to Link. So someone trying to get from Woodinville to Downtown Seattle (or any other Link destination) would still be able to do that fairly quickly. Downtown Bellevue and the UW are also major transit hubs (unlike 148th Station).
“Woodinville, it is quite a ways from any Link station.”
Woodinville is so far from Link that only an express route makes sense to get to it. When the local travel time approaches 30 minutes, it’s time for an express route. Because otherwise you’re saying that every trip not on the local route should have a 30-45 minute overhead to get to your city or neighborhood. And twice that for a round trip, and several hours a week if you go several days a week. That’s too much overhead and is what drives people to their cars.
So either it’s important for Woodinville to have an all-day frequent express route to a Link station so that it can fully participate in the region, or it’s not and Woodnville is not big enough or important enough to have that. If it is, the question is what kind of express route. ST is proposing an all-day express to the S3 transfer point, and a peak-only route to downtown Bellevue. It would be better to do Ross’s suggestion of an all-day express on 405 and 520 to U-District station. That would serve the S3 transfer station, address Totem Lake to Seattle transit (the 255 is too slow to be the only choice), and almost-downtown-Kirkland to Seattle transit (again, the 255 is too slow) — all with one route. A Woodinville-Bellevue peak express could be added on top of that if desired.
From Woodinville, an express bus down 405 to the 2-line in Bellevue seems faster, at least if the end destination is downtown. However the planned STRIDE line, again doesn’t serve Woodinville, again, leading to that awkward shuttle.
My prediction is that ridership on the Woodinville shuttle is going to be very poor, and it’s too short to provide much in the way of overlapping trips. My intuition is that it would be served better as an extension to a KCM bus route. For instance, the 251 is supposed to go from Redmond to Woodinville. Adding an extra tail at the end to connect to the two STRIDE routes feels cheap and relatively effective. Maybe this tail should extend even further to Bothell, so Woodinville to Bothell trips don’t require a transfer in the middle of nowhere.
Yeah the proposed shuttle seems like a poor replacement for the existing 522. Why isn’t S3 extended to Woodinville? I don’t see any other reasonable way to connect to Woodinville, which is otherwise losing quite a lot of service.
Maybe the 256 could get funded by ST and run regularly once the freeway stations open up? Though that would be pretty costly
“Why isn’t S3 extended to Woodinville?”
Budget limitations in the S3 project. ST3 wasn’t scaled for S3 to reach Woodinville, so ST has been talking about giving it some alternate service instead. What that would be has changed several times.
@Mike
the problem isn’t necessarily with operations budget concerns as it is just small extension. the largest problem is that the transit center is now at sr 522/i405. they built the transit center in that northwest corner of the i405/sr522 as it was effectively “free land” for the buses to layover there
the older plan would have been to have every other bus run to the woodinville park and ride. but there wasn’t really a good plan on how exactly would the buses reach it without getting stuck in traffic.
1) the buses could have stayed on sr 522 but effectivlye skip downtown bothell
2) buses could have still went through bothell but would need a very circuitoius route to reach woodinville
https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/documents/sr-522-northeast-145th-bus-rapid-transit-bothell-woodinville-project-maps.pdf
shows it in more detail if you want to view
That routing doesn’t look any worse than it already is? The existing route 522 does the same awkward loop to reach Woodinville
The route shown isn’t bad time wise and will be more direct when the Stride interchange opens. But for little if any additional time the bus could exit at 132nd and turn left at McClendons (Little Bear Crk Pkwy) to avoid the conjestion that is DT Woodinville. Then make a right on 178th Pl to go through the town center shopping area and directly into the P&R. That serves Woodinville destinations much better than routing out 522 and back tracking on 9 (Woodinville Snohomish Rd). There is lots of empty space along side the old team track of the RR where buses could lay over. Not sure but I think King County may own that ROW now. I haven’t seen a train on it in years. Eventually it will be rail trail all the way to Snohomish.
@jd
Hi I explain it more in the follow up article. But basically there was some trouble with connecting to the stride 2 brt.
Originally the stride 2 brt was going to be shoulder running so it would be easy to use the freeway ramps on and off at ne195th and i405. When they converted it to run in the median only it would miss stride 2 brt. So they added the new freeway station at the intersection corner.
Route 256 ignores Link. It does not reach the 2 Line in Bellevue. It does not reach lines 1 and 2 at the UW Stadium station. Route 256 has a very weak design.
Ross has been suggesting an all-day ST Express route from Woodinville to the 405 stops and 520 to the U-District.
Very different approach between Stride 3 in Bothell versus Stride 1 in Renton. Stride 3 takes a significant detour off of Highway 522 to serve the UW Bothell/Cascadia College area. It would be much faster if it jumped on 522 directly from the fugure Bothell-Woodinville transit center, but it would miss serving some key destinations.
In contrast, Stride 1 is planned to stay on the highway and stop only at the transit center at the southern edge of Renton, bypassing downtown Renton, Boeing, and the Renton Landing. This is a mistake. S1 should get off at the Landing exit, go through downtown Renton, stop at the new transit center, then get back on the highway. It will add travel time to the route, but it would also bring high quality transit service to a chronically undeserved part of Town and support some re-development in the area.
Having Stride 1 bypass Renton would be just as silly as having Stride 3 bypass UW Bothell and Cascadia.
Hi brandon,
I agree with you. Stride 1 brt (burien via renton to belleuve) just skips too many destinations.
I haven’t thought of any good ways for a freeway brt to traverse through the area (southcenter and downtown renton) efficiently though.
It still amazes me that there’s not any attempt to even try to find a way to create a stop at SouthCenter. The right of way on 405 at I-5 is pretty broad. South Center is also an important bus transfer point, and S1/Metro 150 transfers would be particularly popular.
Is the 8th St HOV ramp still under consideration?
The South King County HCT Study from 2014 did propose a SouthCenter stop as shown in the HCT summary diagram here (page 18):
https://wsdot.wa.gov/partners/erp/background/ERP%20150505%20HCT%20Corridor%20Studies.pdf
Alas the proposed location isn’t on 405 but is on Strander instead.
Of course, it’s missing from the ST3 documents.
“It still amazes me that there’s not any attempt to even try to find a way to create a stop at SouthCenter.”
It’s in the Burien-Renton Link concept.
“It’s in the Burien-Renton Link concept.”
That’s what the hyperlinked reference to the South King County HCT Corridor study has in it. All the alternatives either stop on Baker or Strander at SouthCenter. None stop in the I-5 right of way at SouthCenter.
I’m beginning to see more clearly how Stride 1 was created out of these prior studies yet the ST3 concept was an entirely new one created without analysis. Stride 1 was instead a political creation.
Stride 1 is an upgrade to the 560. That was always needed, because Bellevue and Renton have over a hundred thousand people each who need regional transit in the Eastside north-south corridor corridor, and Burien is a city that needs to connect to them. The 560 had to be upgraded because we weren’t building north-south light rail and the 560 is too infrequent, gets stuck in traffic, and doesn’t have inline stations.
That’s the reason for Stride 1. It’s not just a “political creation”: it’s a significant need in the transit network. Sure, the alignment could have been better, but that doesn’t negate the basic need for something, and some of the alignment alternatives have tradeoffs like longer travel time that can’t just be ignored.
Although I can see why Interatate 405 needs express bus service conceptually, the station choices for Stride 1 and 2 are setting up commuter express bus routes to serve Downtown Bellevue but planning to run them frequently all-day both ways.
The only way to change this is to have the service stop at places that are concentrated areas of all-day activity. That means shopping and medical and higher education.
Yet the biggest all-day activity areas are not directly served — SeaTac, Factoria, Southcenter, Alderwood, major medical centers. It also has no transfers available for bus riders in the I90, 522, I5 and West Valley highway corridors.
The crystal ball in me says that outside of workers going to work in Downtown Bellevue in the mornings and leaving in the evenings, this service will get little use.
Stride 3 may end up having the highest daily ridership when they are all open. It’s doing much more than just connecting a Downtown Bellevue office district to freeway exits and parking garages.
“the station choices for Stride 1 and 2 are setting up commuter express bus routes to serve Downtown Bellevue but planning to run them frequently all-day both ways.”
People have errands and activities midday, evenings, and weekends, and non 9-5 jobs. 405 is the fastest way to get between Renton, Bellevue, Kirkland, and Bothell if rail isn’t built.
The underlying issues go far beyond transit. Why doesn’t 405 have walkable destinations and housing at all its exits? Why was no reserved rail corridor built in the 1960s when the area was transitioning from rural and 405 was built? The legacy rail line was single-tracked and neglected, and destinations weren’t built along its potential stops either. Why are there no fast ways to get from 405 to a Southcenter stop, Factroria, or major medical center? You’re asking for an impossibility without a major relocation of these facilities or major transit-only access roads to them. In the meantime people need something to get around at least as quickly as the legacy routes provided (560, 340), and they’ll deal with the last mile from the freeway exits the way they’re doing now. Or move to Seattle, where you don’t have to walk from anything like 405 exits, until the Eastside gets its act together. That’s an entire Eastside land use issue that involves all the cities, not something that Sound Transit can unilaterally solve.
Bellevue is an all day destination with; major medical center, retail galore, office space (law offices, banking, etc.)where clients need to visit, and there is a ton of residential and hotel space. On top of that it’s a transfer hub with East Link and RR-B plus numerous express and local buses. It’s not just strawberry fields anymore.
I haven’t thought of any good ways for a freeway brt to traverse through the area (southcenter and downtown renton) efficiently though.
I don’t think there is a good way, unless you spend a lot of money on an expensive busway (e. g. something elevated). It probably isn’t worth it. The best approach is to just run additional buses. I’m not sure the best approach but we’ve done things like this in the past. It would have been great if the 41 (an express bus from Northgate to downtown) could have somehow served the U-District along the way. But that was too difficult. So they ran other express buses from the U-District to downtown as well as buses from Northgate to the U-District. A similar approach could be taken here. (Renton is the U-District in this analogy and Burien is Northgate.)
So that means you have three buses:
1) Burien/TIBS to Bellevue (skipping Renton).
2) Burien/TIBS to Renton.
3) Renton to Bellevue.
The last two could be combined. That way you have an “express” from Bellevue to Burien that skips Renton and a “local” that doesn’t. Or maybe the third bus is just an add-on to the 566 (serving Kent and Auburn). There a lot of possibilities but that is the basic idea. Just run additional buses. Yes, that costs money but it shouldn’t be that expensive. If you are willing to spend a couple billion on a train from Issaquah to South Kirkland you should be willing to provide good regional transportation options for Renton.
The crystal ball in me says that outside of workers going to work in Downtown Bellevue in the mornings and leaving in the evenings, this service will get little use.
That is a good guess, given the ridership patterns of the 560 back when we had the data for it (https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/documents/2020-service-implementation-plan.pdf#page=148). This is a different route though and there have been changes. The biggest difference will be the frequency. I assume that the more often a bus runs the more it attracts non-commuters. Office people (which make up a high proportion of Bellevue workers) are especially prone to timing their commute. But for a lot of other trips the poor frequency makes it unusable. Now they will have that option.
Other than that it is hard to see how this is a lot better though. Link has been extended. Thus someone from Federal Way may decide to want to get to Bellevue this way. On the other hand, they may just ride the train into Seattle and transfer. This won’t serve Renton or Burien as well as the existing 560 which means that for a lot of trips it is not as easy (you’ve got two transfers instead of one). It is faster from Burien to Bellevue but it is hard to see that as a big midday trip (it is just too long). So, yeah, it is hard to see it being that popular outside of peak.
That tends to be the nature of regional travel. It is why regional transit tends to carry relatively few riders outside of peak. People tend to make relatively short trips in their daily lives, outside of commuting and the occasional event. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t spend money on it but we should set expectations low.
I think S1/S2 are major upgrades over existing service. Of course the lines could get improved, and likely the ridership will be fairly peak-heavy, but there is obvious all-day demand up and down the I-405 corridor.
Part of the reason why ridership is so poor on the 535/560 is because they are incredibly slow all day long. They are “express” routes that run much, much slower than general traffic. The difference is particularly stark off-peak when the corridor is less congested.
“That tends to be the nature of regional travel. It is why regional transit tends to carry relatively few riders outside of peak. People tend to make relatively short trips in their daily lives, outside of commuting and the occasional event.“
While travel to work tends to be the most likely long-distance reason for a trip as well as the one most often made during the year, it’s not the only kind of long distance trip. And high-activity destinations also tend to have lots of workers and those workers tend to begin and end their work days outside of the peak. The three types of destinations I’ve specified — shopping, medical and higher education — are seemingly the best longer-distance trips to mention.
Skipping past great transfer opportunities are another huge missed opportunity. Long distance riders often connect by riding a feeder bus. Even for work commuting, Stride doesn’t have a connection to buses in popular transit corridors like 520, 90 and even I-5 and can’t even directly serve those commuters.
Finally, some of the Stride distance gaps are pretty far apart. The next S1 and S2 stops from Downtown Bellevue are both over 5 miles away. There is nowhere on the Link system even that goes that far without a stop!
While adding a few strategic stops to Stride would be challenging and expensive, I think it would greatly increase its all-day usage and attract more work trips too. And after a few years operating in its current proposed incarnation, ST will likely be fiscally forced to start whittling Stride frequencies during off-peak hours due to low ridership as it’s really mostly designed only as a service for Downtown Bellevue office workers.
I’m not saying to do anything more than add up to four infill Stride stations. While costly, the 85th stop was also quite costly for its expected results.
I want Stride to succeed and have productive ridership levels through the day. It already will have frequencies not that dissimilar to Link. Its usefulness and productivity looks to me to be much more likely and sustainable if it fits into the regional transit system more like a Link light rail line and less like an ST Express bus line.
Stride doesn’t NEED to serve every location. Otherwise it’d be a mess of a route.
Metro should be responsible for adding fast, well timed (and ideally frequent) transfers from Stride stations to major destinations.
Valley Medical Center – Rapid I Line
SeaTac – 1 Line
Renton Landing – F Line
By sending the bus through downtown Renton without a busway, you’re wasting time. It makes the trip a few minutes faster for people who live in Renton, but slows it down for everyone else. The Renton stop is a shame but there is no other option. They’re adding bus lanes and signals so I could see it only taking 5 mins even during peak.
The only missing connection is Factoria/Eastgate/South Bellevue. Stride could’ve used a Factoria station. I think an acceptable tradeoff is adding Exit 9 as a stop, adding a connection to Factoria, Eastgate (and a few peak runs to Issaquah TC) after hitting South Bellevue. That way people from S King County gains better access to Eastgate, Factoria, and Issaquah – and vice versa (e.g. traveling to the airport).
By sending the bus through downtown Renton without a busway, you’re wasting time. It makes the trip a few minutes faster for people who live in Renton, but slows it down for everyone else.
Right. That makes sense. The problem is, there isn’t much “everyone else”. This goes back to what Al said. This looks like a commuter route, and not much more. There just aren’t a lot of people close to the Burien Transit Center or Tukwila Station taking midday trips to Bellevue. Riders on Link will likely just stay on Link and transfer downtown. Maybe a savvy riders going right to Downtown Bellevue will realize it is a good shortcut but someone there aren’t that many people taking that trip. Not that many people who work at the airport live in Bellevue. Someone with luggage is more likely to just stay put until CID.
I’m not saying the choice was a bad one — I’m saying the options were really poor. You really need Renton to pull this off. The main problem was in trying to do this all with one route. Stride 1 really looks like a peak-only express route and nothing more.
> Part of the reason why ridership is so poor on the 535/560 is because they are incredibly slow all day long
> Stride doesn’t NEED to serve every location. Otherwise it’d be a mess of a route.
The problem is that Stride 1 will skip downtown Renton, southcenter, the landing, and factoria. This is just too many destinations that it is skipping. effectively one still needs to take rapidride F and it is just as slow if not slower due to the new transfer added.
For instance in downtown renton what would be a simple 560 route to seatac (https://maps.app.goo.gl/WVtfzhDSMmLuuj8Y6) is now either a 2 bus ride of
1) rapidride f to tib station then 2) take the tib station down to seatac.
or a more ludicrious 3 trip ride of
1) rapidride f to south renton 2) stride 1 to tibs 3) link line to seatc
What exact transit trips does Stride 1 actually speed up? outside of burien it seems to take longer for almost all trips
> Renton Landing – F Line
>By sending the bus through downtown Renton without a busway
It means now to get from bellevue to the renton landing rather than a direct route 560 bus now one must take the stride 1 down to south renton transit center.
and then take the rapidride F backwards up north.
I am having a very easy time finding examples where the stride 1 makes transit times longer and pretty hard time even forcing situations where the stride 1 is faster
@Wesley Lin
The document Ross linked shows that most riders are headed to/from Bellevue, not SeaTac.
S1 specifically makes TIBS-Bellevue and S Renton-Bellevue trips much faster, especially from points further south. For example 160-S1 and Link-S1 will save something like 10-20 minutes if riders are headed to Bellevue.
Burien TC, TIBS, and the existing Renton TC are already very busy transit centers. Yes it would be great to hit more destinations (Southcenter in particular) and the Renton TC is moving to a less ideal location but these are not low ridership destinations
To put it into perspective, Burien TC, TIBS, and Renton TC each have as many boardings as Northgate every day (~3k boardings per day).
I also think one of the major problems with these Stride routes is they combine the idea of routing with capital investment. Unfortunately, that is one of the basic problems with BRT. It is a new idea and not a particularly good one. It came from the whole U. S. streetcar movement (itself a flawed idea). On the one hand you might as well provide the same functionality as the streetcar but with a bus. On the other hand, it misses one of the big advantages of buses — their flexibility.
Think about the Downtown Seattle bus tunnel for example. The buses running it were special (they had to be electric-diesel hybrids) but other than that, they were ordinary buses. The same color, same seats, you name it. The bus stops were ordinary as well. You really had no idea that the bus would go into this special tunnel or not (unless you were familiar with the system). When they were planning the tunnel they weren’t sure what buses would actually go into it. I’m sure they had a rough idea but that was subject to change. Yet despite all that uncertainty, the federal government loved it (and this was under Reagan). They thought it would add a lot of value. It did.
Now there is a focus on “BRT”. The whole idea is that it is “like rail, only with buses”. It requires you to map out the routing before hand. They are basically treating it like rail even though they plan to just reuse the same roadway they run buses on right now. Then you fill out all the paperwork, wait for everyone to go through it and eventually you get money to actually improve things.
The process is backwards. The only good thing about this project is the new BAT lanes. Sure, they are way too expensive but at least they will speed up the bus. Otherwise you are better off with the current routing. More to the point, the routing should be flexible. That goes with all of these projects. In the case of this thread, that means Stride 1. The freeway station for TIBS is a very good addition. Other than that, everything else is dubious (mainly because of how they plan on serving Renton). As I wrote elsewhere, I don’t think it can be solved without spending a lot of money or running more routes. But running more routes doesn’t fit the “BRT” model.
This goes for all of Stride — even Stride 2 (which has a fairly straightforward route). The infrastructure improvements are great. Maybe too expensive, but still great. But do they need to have their own special electric buses? Of course not. Do we need to know exactly what the routes will be before we make those improvements? Again, of course not.
> S1 specifically makes TIBS-Bellevue and S Renton-Bellevue trips much faster, especially from points further south. For example 160-S1 and Link-S1 will save something like 10-20 minutes if riders are headed to Bellevue.
Yes but one does not magically spawn at south renton. one still needs to actually reach there.
> Burien TC, TIBS, and Renton TC
TIBS is a light rail station. both Burien TC and existing Renton TC you can walk to retail and existing apartmetns
south renton tc does not have any of that.
> For example 160-S1 and Link-S1 will save something like 10-20 minutes if riders are headed to Bellevue.
okay but that is literally every rider starting from outside southcenter, downtown renton and the landing.
The original Stride 1/2/3 visions were to simply replace the 535, 560, and 522 with frequent faster service, make street improvements, add in-lane bus stations, and make a few routing adjustments here and there. Then Renton asked for its transit center to be moved in order to get most of the buses out of downtown Renton where they were supposedly a negative impact. That’s why Stride 1 isn’t running through downtown Renton: Renton said it didn’t need it, and Renton was the beneficiary of the old routing so it has the most say in whether it stays or goes.
The S3 project couldn’t afford to go to Woodinville so it was to be given alternate service instead. I believe that was in the ballot measure, so it was known in 2016.
It is clear that like Stride 3, Stride 1 will have a lot of winners and losers. Just trying to get from your apartment in Kenmore to downtown during rush hour? Stride 3 will deliver. Trying to get to Lake City or Greenwood? You are worse off.
In both cases the issue is backfilling those riders. It seems easier with Stride 1. I’m sure there are people trying to get from Burien to Renton who wish the bus actually went through Renton (instead of just covering the edge of it) but they at least have the F. But now the folks who are trying to get from the main part of Renton to Bellevue have to either backtrack to catch this bus or take the extremely slow 240. If the plan was to boost service on the 566 then I could see this working out fine. Run the 566 every fifteen minutes midday and Renton has very little to complain about. Since that isn’t the plan it seems hard to see it being a great project. It seems like very few people will ride the bus midday (although time will tell) and some of those will find the trip slower than it is today.
How can any “alternate service” possibly be less money for ST to provide than simply continuing through the roundabout at the new “transit center” and make the 2 mile loop through Woodinville P&R. Clearly the money is there but it was decided to loop up to UW/Cascadia and use Beardslee Blvd, which has no direct HOV access, instead of staying on 522. How far does the bus have to fight it’s way across all lanes in order to access the new “transit center”? It’s not very far and that stretch gets seriously backed up because of trucks trying to pull the grade up to Brickyard P&R. I guess the good news is it’s not train tracks so it’s easy to fix in the first service revision.
For S1, how many existing riders at the TCs are walkups versus transfers from a P+R or another route? Service is pretty good to all of the proposed S1 stations except 44th.
S Renton in particular has two of the busiest lines in South King (F and 160) and will likely have a lot of buses running from the downtown TC to S Renton. I think it’s reasonable to run through Renton but it does take a long time. Plus it duplicates two existing routes (240 and F).
“But do they need to have their own special electric buses? Of course not.”
Yeah Stride routes don’t seem like the best choice for electrification when ST has no electric fleet at all.
I also don’t see this as a deal breaker for ST3 referendum. It’s not like this detail will flip a lot of voters, so I don’t know what’s the point for ST to voluntarily offered that. A S3 to Woodinville extension probably can flip more voters.
“Is the 8th St HOV ramp still under consideration?”
Although some source says this is a funded project, I’d say this is not as funded as those sources claimed and probably won’t happen in the next 5-10 years. There might be such plan to use toll lane revenue to fund certain projects, but toll lane opening are postponed, so all the projects depending on this funding stream are postponed. Also, Just like proposed rebuild of SR 169 and Southport interchange, N 8th St didn’t seem to get any special treatment because current express lane project doesn’t make room for that.
If you compare Renton to Bellevue RFP plan (which is slightly different from what’s actually built at 112th right now, but mostly consistent) with a Forward Compatibility Plan (similar to I-405 Master Plan package) you will find most expensive improvements proposed in Master Plan south of Southport are not included in actual I-405 Renton-to-Bellevue express lane project. N 8th direct access probably won’t happen until WSDOT has the money to start another I-405 improvement that focus on the southern portion from I-5 to Southport.
“How can any “alternate service” possibly be less money for ST to provide”
More capital costs for street improvements and bus stations and more high-end buses. More operating costs for 10-20 minute full-time service. ST Express is explicity not BRT, so it can run every 30-60 minutes if ST wants it to.
“I’m not saying to do anything more than add up to four infill Stride stations. While costly, the 85th stop was also quite costly for its expected results.”
Perhaps ST paying all is unfair, but I think 85th might have a chance to become good transfer stop when K Line is online. Its transfer distance is ideal and the proposed service on both corridors are (hopefully will be) very frequent. It is possible that S2-K might be more competitive than one-seat-ride K for Bellevue-to-Kirkland trips.
Part of the goal for S1 is faster Burien-Bellevue service, since Burien is in an isolated corner and doesn’t have much other ST service and is also an equity area. Going through downtown Renton would add some 10 minutes to the travel time.
This isbfimevhil7tvim starrllrtingvtobwondr if the 72 will ever actually happen…if was supposed to be part of thexlynnwood link restructure.
This is gibberish what are you trying to say.
I hink its pretty well known on here that I have disability issues that mean I don’t type well in my posts, so this seems kind of unkind,. I realize you’re just following the overall of civility on this forum….
I was not aware nor could I have been. I’m still a little confused by what you’re trying to say though and would like clarification
Good grief
I just want to apologize for my prior comment. It was rather unkind and I should do better. Also, sorry if I came off as cold in my other comment, it wasn’t meant to be but reading it back it does come across that way.
I was unaware of the 72 coming back or being proposed, but it looks like a decent feeder route for link. I hope it comes back soon, and I don’t think s3 would affect it too heavily
The future 72 is different from the pre-2016 72. It replaces the 372 on 25th ave NE north to 145th. The only common routing is Ravenna Ave between 85th and 92nd, Lake City Way between 92nd and 123rd, and 145th between 30th and 16th.
The full route is U-District station, UW station, Montlake Blvd, 25th, Ravenna Ave, Lake City Way, 145th, Shoreline South station.
The old 72 was University Way, 15th Ave NE, 80th, Ravenna Ave, Lake City Way, 30th, and then it must have gone on 145th to a terminus at 16th shared with the 73.
“I was unaware of the 72 coming back or being proposed, but it looks like a decent feeder route for link. I hope it comes back soon, and I don’t think s3 would affect it too heavily”
It’s already decided. The official start time is “expected 2026-2027”. The two things the rest of the restructure is waiting for is the 522 move and Pinehurst station opening. I forgot about Pinehurst when I said the 72 is waiting for the 522 move. I’m not sure which ST action will occur first, or which one will trigger which route(s).
Here’s the full Lynnwood Link Connections restructure.
I am curious how travel time between Seattle and Kenmore will change between now and after bus being shorten to Shoreline.
I assume it will be faster since it won’t have the lower speed limit and traffic lights of LCW. What Northshore residents asked for in Stride 3 was the fastest travel time to downtown Seattle, and that’s what motivated the switch to Shoreline South station. Link is grade-separated all the way to Shoreline South, and its Westlake-Shoreline South travel time is 22 minutes, so that gives it a speedy component to the trip.
I explained elsewhere that it won’t be noticeably faster. It’s going to take 10 minutes to ride from a Roosevelt to Shoreline South and about 6 minutes on Stride to get to SR 522. Today the direct trip from Roosevelt to that corner is 16 minutes on schedules.
It will be a faster walk to Link at the station than Roosevelt is.
By boarding Link further upstream, a rider from S3 will have a better chance of getting a seat on Link, too.
Yeah, chances are you will get on the exact same train. There will be traffic on both corridors (Lake City Way and 145th). I’m sure there are times when going to Roosevelt is faster and times when going to 148th is faster. But overall it should be the same.
There are other considerations. There are more destinations directly served by the bus if you go to Roosevelt. Ideally the bus would continue to the U-District though. This would provide riders with a one-seat trip to a major destination while connecting them to Link just as well. Then there are the bus transfers. Lake City, Roosevelt and the U-District are all major transit hubs (148th Station is not).
Any improvement in speed will be due to the additional BAT lanes and off-board payment — not routing.
And how many years out is the opening of the SR522/I-405 Brickyard freeway station? If the construction of the 85th Street station in Redmond is any clue, it will be 2029 before the S3 is operating. Even then, this transit plan completely cuts off Woodinville residents who would be required to drive to UW Bothell because there is no additional parking planned for the freeway station
The routing of this route is poor. I understand the history. I don’t want to rehash the thinking that went into this decision. I’m just saying it was wrong. You should always consider the network. Always. This fails miserably in that respect. They should have run the bus to the U-District. The U-District is a major destination (unlike 148th Station). There would be plenty of riders who take the bus to U-District and walk to their destination. It would connect to a lot more bus routes as well. Thus there would be a lot more one-seat rides and a lot more easy transfers to other routes. Metro could easily adjust their routes to accommodate it although they wouldn’t have to do much since buses converge on Lake City, Roosevelt and the U-District already. But a bus like the 65 or 372 could be sent to Shoreline Community College. Thus the bus would connect — but not overlap — this route. If the 5 is sent to Lake City (as many people want) it would mean riders could make an easy transfer to get to Phinney Ridge (and have two different ways to get to Greenwood).
The only potential advantage of this routing would be if it kept going west to Aurora (and the college). Then it would connect to more north-south buses while also have a solid destination. But that isn’t the case. It won’t reach Aurora.
It crosses a handful of routes but it puts Metro in a huge bind. There is only so much they can do to accommodate the poor routing. As a result, riders from Bothell and Kenmore will have a two seat-ride to Lake City and a three-seat ride to places like Sand Point and Greenwood. Don’t be shocked if this massive investment in transit infrastructure results in less ridership than exists right now (in the areas it is supposed to serve).
The word “massive” seems like hyperbole. It’s not. This project is expected to cost $581.5 million. That doesn’t include the special bus barn that will be shared with the other two Stride lines (that will cost $499.5 million). As Wesley pointed out, even with all of that money, the buses will run in traffic on 145th. Much of the money is being spent to widen the highway in Lake Forest Park. A lot of it is being spent to retain dedicated left turns pocket lanes. Apparently it is too much of a burden for driver in Lake Forest Park to deal with something drivers in Seattle do every day. Get off the free and onto this highway and you are immediately met with two intersections where left turns are allowed but there is no pocket lane. These are busy streets as well (NE 80th and 15th NE). There are also plenty of places where left turns are simply not allowed. Somehow they just won’t work in Lake Forest Park. Of course WSDOT is partially to blame. But ST and WSDOT — two administrations dominated by politicians from the same party supposedly trying to achieve the same goal — should be able to fix it without spending a massive amount of money.
It just isn’t a good project.
Extending to Aurora (i.e. 99) would be a good way to make lemonade. By college I’m guessing you mean Shoreline CC? I think that would be worth it as well. One of the reasons people attend a Community College is because it lets them commute without having to move. Often that involves a regional commute as the different schools all tend to have certain specialties. I think Shoreline for example has a medical transcription program and a machinist training program. Another thing that can contribute to all day ridership is the running start program if you can configure routes so that the are walking distance from nearby high schools.
Overall, this Stride 3 routing seems to almost serve a lot of destinations while in actuality missing them entirely. If S3 is supposed to be some sort of “spine” then skip the DT Bothell/UW tail wag and run straight to the interchange “transit center”. Instead add a frequent local route that actually serves all the points between Woodinville and Bothell while connecting both sides to “the spine”.
By college I’m guessing you mean Shoreline CC?
Yes. The previous sentence had the full name of the college and then I removed it, leaving the sentence with “college” without context (oops).
Overall, this Stride 3 routing seems to almost serve a lot of destinations while in actuality missing them entirely.
Exactly.
“Overall, this Stride 3 routing seems to almost serve a lot of destinations while in actuality missing them entirely.”
That’s a very insightful sentence! I love that observation!
I think it applies to S1 and S2 too.
It gets in to how Stride was created a way to build voter support for ST3 in 2016. ST had a number of corridors and communities that were unsuitable or unaffordable for Link but still needed to have something to attract voter support in left-out places. So it was included to be an upgrade to ST Express.
I think the underlying issue is just that the service (not yet named Stride) was developed for voters in 2016, not riders. For S3, it probably should go further to Aurora if not Shoreline CC to improve its usefulness and productivity. It doesn’t go to Aurora (or Lake City for that matter) because North King subarea wasn’t sponsoring it. That’s political; not analytical.
I think many of us get frustrated because we believe that transit services should objectively benefit riders rather than appeal to non-riding voters who generally support the availability of transit and who take it for granted that ST will design and operate the right system. Some of us are instead able to look at things more thoroughly as experienced riders though a future year lens — and we see the missed opportunities and future problems. In ancient times, we would be known as oracles.
“It gets in to how Stride was created a way to build voter support for ST3 in 2016. ST had a number of corridors and communities that were unsuitable or unaffordable for Link but still needed to have something to attract voter support in left-out places.”
Stop ignoring the fact that these corridors are needed for passengers and the overall transit network. It wasn’t not just a political sop to get yes votes because it’s something in my city: it was to advance the strategic goal of frequent/fast transit between the areas along the 405 corridor and 522 corridor.
“I think the underlying issue is just that the service (not yet named Stride) was developed for voters in 2016, not riders.”
All of Sound Transit is like that. There’s no need to single out Stride 1, 2, or 3 as if they’re uniquely worse than everything else. It wasn’t so much developed “for voters”: it was designed based on what the county executives and city governments said they needed. They’re the elected representatives who are supposed to be knowledgeable and authoritative about what their areas need, and this is what they said they need. Link with certain alignments and stations and station locations, and Stride serving certain station locations. They’re the decision-makers, through their proxy roles on the ST board.
“Stop ignoring the fact that these corridors are needed for passengers and the overall transit network.”
I’m not ignoring any need.
These Stride corridors already have had needs met with ST Express service for a few decades already. ST could have merely promised more frequent buses.
Instead, ST promised a set of new capital projects (in addition to more frequent service) which was then rebranded to make it appear like it was more a change. Many of those capital projects are achieving other objectives beyond more frequent service like 145th improvements or the 85th interchange or the Renton garage with more park and ride capacity.
While prior studies did provide key information (and bad cost estimates in some cases), the actual development of ST3 was assembled in just a few months during 2016 with the express intention to get ST3 passed once the legislature gave a green light.
I think it’s disingenuous to go back and imply that ST3 packaging was systemically analytical. The Board did not debate what stations should go where. The map was broadly diagrammatic. Projects in or out were not ranked on time saved or ridership volumes during those discussions. There was no discussion about missed transfer opportunities or designs. The diagram itself is even distorted (Downtown Everett is further east than Downtown Bellevue is, for example).
https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/project-documents/st3-system-plan-2016.pdf
Our leaders chose projects for ST3 based more on other reasons. To imply that the results were some sort of carefully analyzed and well developed transit system to me is just not true.
I am still baffled by how the people whom make large scale decisions impacting day to day life’s of citizens are the one’s who are never directly impacted by any of these choices.
Look at 145th currently. That roundabout project was supposed to be completed by October 31st, 2024. It’s over budget and its created an absolute hindrance of trying to exit the freeway and not have heart palpitations due to the stress of being dead stopped 300 feet before the exit ramp. Doesn’t anyone see this as a potential for a huge multi car pile up.
These seeming minor construction projects which propagate the ideas of less traffic and free flowing routes and whatever other picturesque discrimination they provide to cadt shadowing on the real issues no one wants to talk when it comes to traffic.
We have people driving with zero experience, zero confidence because the place they immigrated from has gender biases and roles implemented in such a way that coming to seattle is the ultimate high but no one prepares these people appropriately. I see people daily that don’t know the how to use basic functions like window defrosters, or blinkers, or headlights. Providing basic information from the beginning of it all. The actual purpose this in on or in a vehicle is for x,y and z. Explaining the safety of all people whether in a car or pedestrian. Theres a connect for every element of a vehicle and to how it aides in safety for all, but only when used appropriately. Everyone driving should be able to read and write the basics in English, no exceptions. I say this because I have only seen road signs in English. So it makes sense. Its not about limiting those who come here its about creating a community of Inclusion by those people putting in a little effort in English proficiency creates meaningful and ladt relationships throughout thd community instead of people feeling isolated and limited because of a language barrier.
It reminds me of that Chinese restaurant I’d been to as a child. They had the most extravagant menu. So many choices. Cheese burger, dim sum, spaghetti, omelets, hot pots, seafood, salads. You name it, it was on the menu. But just because you can make everything doesn’t mean you make them well. Everything was mediocre at best. Nothing stand out and worthy of praise. But the convenience if it kept people coming back. I’ve learned to make good choices as an adult. I like quality things and with such taste I’m willing to invest for the most appropriate options. Offering a driver’s test in 30 plus language options isn’t helping any of those drivers learn the rules of the road or help them read the traffic signs.
We have far too many people initiating changes that are presented with falsified outcomes, while the projects overall timelines are condensed in presentations seeking approval, while in real life, projrcts are riddled with various delays no one accounted for. These delays are not only years past the completion date, with no clear end in sight, but the budget ends up millions if not billions over budget. These processes should be far more advanced, streamlined and detailed for all the information to be presented from the beginning where approval is being sought for. Including but not limited to how a specific project will effect a persons daily commute to and from work, how much extra time is effected, fuel consumption, which goes to emissions, and the various dollar amounts of effecting someone’s living costs and if that’s allowable. There’s many issues i see daily from all the infrastructure of rules and process down.
The people approving changes should be required to have a skilset of understanding (personally having been impacted) the vast scope of impacts, challenges and inconveniences and the requirement to adapt daily routines to allow room for such variables and hinderances in the same ways as the people of the communities the changes are happening in.
I am resiting my desire to critique the person’s, processes and jobs that are completely failing the people. This a widespread, large scale issue incorporating government, companies, environment and people. The bond between people and empathy is invaluable when is comes to companies and governments dealing with challenges, obstacles and diversities. This is my stance of being the change i want to see.
Is ST still displacing people from their homes to install a sidewalk with the BGT adjacent and a massive concrete retaining wall in lieu of trees to add a small section of BAT lane that’s never backed up currently? I’m assuming this will make congestion at SB 522 and 145th and the entire length of 145th from 522 to I-5 significantly worse.
This is the most expensive non-essential rebranding project. Thanks for making everything you touch worse ST! We don’t need bus stops for 2 empty or nearly empty buses at a time that are intended to serve a community that doesn’t want this project to happen (LFP). The only bonus would be that people aren’t losing their homes anymore for a sidewalk when there’s a paved trail less than 50’ away.
How many millions of tax dollars and time taken from our lives so some people can get to Seattle and the airport? The Seahawks, Sounders, Mariners and Ports should all be paying for the majority of these projects since it benefits them the most. The average taxpayer is taking major losses from these poorly executed projects.
This is the most expensive non-essential rebranding project. Thanks for making everything you touch worse ST! We don’t need bus stops for 2 empty or nearly empty buses at a time that are intended to serve a community that doesn’t want this project to happen (LFP). The only bonus would be that people aren’t losing their homes anymore for a sidewalk when there’s a paved trail less than 50’ away.
How many millions of tax dollars and time taken from our lives so some people can get to Seattle and the airport? The Seahawks, Sounders, Mariners and Ports should all be paying for the majority of these projects since it benefits them the most. The average taxpayer is taking major losses from these poorly executed projects.