Beginning Monday, the 1st Ave S to Spokane St. on ramp will be permanently closed for demolition, with a replacement going up in late 2011. This will cause large disruptions in West Seattle service. Routes 116, 118 and 119 get new schedules; 21,22, 56, 57, and 85 get reroutes; and 15, 18, 37, 54, 55, 113, 120, 121, 122, 125 will likely experience delays:
Passengers on these bus routes should plan for extra travel time, particularly during the afternoon commute. On trips heading west and north toward Seattle, these bus routes will probably have more normal travel times.
It’s going to be a bad decade to commute out of West Seattle.
I’m not sure why you think the buses who don’t go anywhere near that ramp would experience delays.
In a couple of years West Seattlites will be saying “How did we ever live without thew new and improved Spokane viaduct?”
Because a lot of routes are through routed. For example the 54 turns into the 5 downtown.
Besides what Adam mentioned, there’s the issue of traffic that would normally use that ramp using alternate routes that are on bus lines – increasing traffic volumes and delays. It’s the same phenomenon that causes traffic on 45th and 50th through the U-District to clog when the University and Montlake bridges are open.
Robert,
I think that because those are the routes listed as potentially experiencing delays on Metro’s website.
Some of those West Seattle routes are through-routed to Ballard routes. Plus, with GP traffic trying to avoid 1st & Spokane, it will put extra traffic on the AW Viaduct, 4th South, Marginal Way, etc., etc. etc.
If there’s something to whine about, West Seattle will find it. Some of our “community leaders” are currently outraged – OUTRAGED, I tell you! – that they are tearing down the ramp before putting in the expanded lanes. The fact that the ramp is in the way of the lanes is of very little consequence to them.
Most of the most outraged are the ones who weren’t here when they were building the new bridge. They would have died of hissy fits had they been here then.
So true – I grew up in WS, and there is nothing the SOV folk there won’t complain about. Remember Charlie Chong promising to paint out the bus only lane eastward on the high bridge when he ran for Mayor? Ludicrous!
I find it curious that everyone is talking about how bad the delays will be yet Metro is adjusting the 116, 118, and 119 schedules by only 7 minutes. Either they don’t think it will be that bad or they are seriously underestimating it.
Also, shouldn’t it be east and north toward Seattle?
Nope, the ramp they are demolishing is the one used by outbound traffic to go south and west to West Seattle, White Center, Fauntleroy-Vashon.
The statement in Martin’s article, and on the Metro website, says that trips headed west and north will have normal travel times. That doesn’t make much sense, it should say that trips headed east and north should have normal travel times.
M,
Thanks to the new HASTUS software and response to the audit recommendations, schedulers are making changes to reduce layover times. If they adjusted the schedules you mention more than that based on estimates, efficiency could suffer.
As it is – I picked a tripper that’s just over 5 hours long that starts as a 54 Express, turns into an 18 Express, then becomes a 5 local and the last leg is a 54 local. That’s going over the West Seattle bridge, then back over the West Seattle bridge, north across the Ballard bridge, south across the Aurora bridge, then across the West Seattle bridge once again.
Guess how much layover time is on this run – newly created out of Central Base specifically to address audit efficiency recommendations?
Zero minutes. No layovers whatsoever.
Hopefully I won’t have to use the bathroom. Full-timers get a guaranteed 5-minute break on similar assignements – not so with part-time drivers.
I’m assuming you picked DTA 35. Doesn’t look too bad. I’d say its good. Okay your 54 laeves at 3:33pm…thats totally cool, and 36 minutes back to 2/Main for the 18X is plenty of time. I’ve done all this Central work for 8 shakeups now since I went full-time, so I know whats bad or good.
I did a relief run on the 5 last summer and it started with a 54X at 4:47pm (even later in the commute as yours) and it gave 36 minutes back to 2/Main, just as yours does. Most days I had enough time to walk to Starbucks at Jackson and Occidental, get a nice iced beverage and hit the head. Even on some Mariner nights I was okay, 1st NB can be jammed from Holgate past Royal Brougham, but you leave at 4:40 so you wont have a problem. The 18X you should run fine on, even early and the Ballard bridge doesn’t open that much at rush hour…..just take advantage of no stops and put your foot in it, but be careful on the bus lanes. Now 45 minutes to Northgate is plenty of time and when you get there……leave late. Inbound 5’s for me atleast, I have way too much time. 8mins from NSCC-Aurora….won’t take that long. 6 min from Holman-85th….4 min would be enough. 9 min from 85th to 46th, too much. 5 min from 46th to 38th….that takes about 3min. And even from there if you leave 38th ontime, you will get to Wall early, and 8 mins from Wall to Pike is way too much time a 7pm. Test it out the first few days, but most likely you will find that you could leave a little late and catch up before you even get downtown.
So don’t worry about it….you never have to cross the lower bridge, your deadhead back downtown won’t be effected too much by the construction on 1st and you should plan on running on-time all day. I think thats a great piece of work. The only bad part is the coach type. Looks like you have hybrids both parts, but coaches are going to change. Almost none of the full-time work has hybrids, most are 2300’s and the planner is going to change that at shakeup….the policy is all 124 trips will have hybrids, because all will equiped with cameras, and anything (5’s, 15’s) out after midnight will have a hybrid…..so sorry to say but in order to do that, many trippers will be switched to 2300’s. Thats 19 relief runs will trade 2300’s for hybrids and that doesn’t count the trippers on the 124 that will switch too. You might not be effected and get lucky, but just a heads up.
Casey,
Thanks for sharing your experience. I will hold out hope for some kind of break. I maintain that with this piece (yes, it’s DTA35) there are no scheduled breaks or layovers. With the Spokane street issue, as well as having to cross the West Seattle bridge, the Aurora Bridge and the Ballard Bridge (not to mention three trips through the CBD), seems to me like it’s far from a sure thing.
Good to know it may work better in practice than it looks on paper. I maintain a fundamental objection to not having a guaranteed break built in, and a situation that encourages me to “put my foot in it” just to get a bathroom break. No exactly a recipe for maximum safety.
Yes, a hybrid in the summer particularly will be nice.
I was surprised at all the trolley work that had been picked by higher seniority part timers. Didn’t expect my work to get yanked on me. So – we shall see.
Don’t sweat it! I’m telling you the West Seattle Bridge is not bad….it rarely backs up going to West Seattle……maybe going up the hill through the traffic light at 35th but that doesn’t really slow you down except maybe a few minutes (and a trip leaving at 3:33, is pretty early in the commute) Coming back over, there is a Bus Only Lane to 1st Ave S. The Ballard bridge is not a big deal. I have many rush hour trips on the 15/18’s that I run ontime. And the aurora bridge at the time and direction you will be traveling will have no problems. 7pm downtown will be a breeze and the viaduct and West Seattle bridge after 7 won’t be a problem either. I have been driving the 5/54/55’s, and 1st Ave stuff a long time. Trust me.
Also, I didn’t mean you have to put your foot in it to get a break….I meant it as, enjoy driving the speed limit without having to stop.
And when you say there is not scheduled layover/breaks, thats because you are deadheading. They give you plenty of time to deahead and get a break. Fauntleroy to 2nd/Main in 36 minutes. I would USUALLY get about 10, sometimes 15 mins. And from 18X to Northgate they give you 45 minutes. I will bet you get a 20-25 minute break, maybe more, (Driving directions say 11min, so say 20min to be safe….that still leave 25 minute break at NTC) I know you might not beleive me, but I’m telling you…..if this was the first half of a relief run on the 5/54…..I would totally pick that work.
Casey
As far as putting my foot in it, I’ve spent the last 8 months rarely going over 30 miles per hour (save the occasional base route back to AO from the end of the 36 diesel line), I will probably enjoy the wind in my hair, especially coming down that hill eastbound on the W. Seattle bridge bus lane.
Pick time brings out the panic in me, and with so many more senior folks running for the hills on these pieces at Central – I’m a bit paranoid. Thanks for filling in some of the blanks.
Casey,
What does “live looped” mean?
Live Looped is when a run card schedules you to have no break at a terminal and you just change you signs and head back. One example I can think of is when the 27 was still connected to the 25.
On Sundays, there would just be one bus going back and forth on the 27. It had 13 minutes downtown and 5 in Leschi. I hated that thing! I got it on report 3 Sunday in a row last Spring. I was pissed. So in order to comply with having at least one 15 minute break, one of the trips you had to “live-loop” the terminal in Leschi skipping the normal 5 minutes, so they could add it to the downtown break making it a grand total of 18 minutes. Here’s the run card from Summer 09 on Pg. 106-107 25/2 http://www.atu587.com/documents/SU09Central-SUN.pdf The break at 3:18 or lack of break….is live-looped and the next break downtown has the 5 mins added to the normal 13, for an 18 minute break. 25/1 just before it also has a livelooped trip.
It’s not really that common. Actually the weekday 25’s in the midday are live-looped at 4th/Washington, since the 37(though-routed route) only runs at peak hours. Example on 25/5 on pg 136 look at 12:20pm. It comes inbound and just turns around and goes back out. http://www.atu587.com/documents/CB-WK.pdf
Does that help?
Yes – as I read your explanation, “live looped” is like “through routed” only rather than continuing where the time point on the end of one route corresponds to the beginning of another, the time points indicate a turnaround of the same route headed for the opposite end terminal.
You got it! Also, you may hear drivers (I do too) refer to livelooping as if you are running so late and you just turn around and go back skipping your 5 min potty break allowance, in order to not make yourself even more late.
Man, I hope a lot of passengers are reading this, especially those prone to taking it out on drivers when the bus is running late.
Everyone (both PT and FT) are guaranteed 5 minute break at end of route (as long you are doing another revenue trip afterwards.). The 5 minute break does not apply if you are deadheading back to the base.
Warren,
I have a 54 Express that’s through-routed to an 18 Express which is then through routed to a 5 local which in turn through-routes to a 54 local. That’s 5 hours and 2 minutes from sign-in to pull-in with no break whatsoever. The “end of my route” is when I pull in – 5 hours and 2 minutes (provided I’m on time) after I sign in. There are no scheduled layovers between any of those trips. This is the new HASTUS software at work.
Our contract requires the following:
15.3.I In order to provide reasonable breaks, METRO shall schedule at least one 15-minute layover in assignments over five hours in length and an additional 15-minute layover in weekday assignments over eight hours in length. When an Operator working an assignment finds it does not provide reasonable break time, the Operator should notify METRO of such by filing a service report. “Length” equals report, travel and platform time, but does not include bonus time.
. . . but that only applies to full-time Operators. Apparently there is some sort of genetic modification that we part-timers have access to (I will have to check with Group Health) that makes it so that we don’t need breaks, even to use the bathroom.
I’m not a driver, so forgive me if this question is stupid — but are bus drivers exempt from state law regarding breaks? If you are working for 5 hours aren’t you required to have the state-mandated 10 minute break, at least?
That’s crazy to not allow drivers a chance for breaks in such a long route. I guess I’m glad I never became a driver.
HASTUS has not screwed this run up. 36 minutes the end of 54X to the beginning of the 15X/18X is the same amount of time given before HASTUS started making the runs. 45 minutes from the end of the 18X to the beginning of the 5 at NTC is lenty of time. You will get your breaks.
If METRO and HASTUS really didn’t want you to have your breaks, they would give you about 20 minutes to deadhead from Fauntleroy to downtown rather than 36, and about 11 minutes from Loyal Heights to Northgate rather than 45min. You will see that you will get your 15 miunte or more break at NTC, and if you don’t on the nightmare days we sometimes get, it would just be as if you were running beyond recovery and you take your 5 minute bathroom break.
Jeff….
Just because the trip ends at Fauntleroy and is deadheaded back downtown to start the 18X, it IS NOT thorugh-routed…..its a seperate trip. The 18X is not through-routed to Northgate either.
The only through-routed trip you have on this piece of work is the 5 from Northgate through-routed with the 54. The first 2 trips are single trips.
I will give you an example here of a 5 I do Monday mornings….
http://www.atu587.com/documents/CB-WK.pdf and go to page 61 to see my run card of Combo 23 5/24VT
Actually I think I see you on the first trip at the top of Queen Anne if thats you driving the 13…..anyway, this run card doesn’t have deadhead instructions but it’s not through-routed until the second half of the morning.
At 3/James at 7:52 to 29/Barton at 8:29….I have a deadhead and usually a 10-15 minute break at 29/Barton. Just because it doesn’t end and start at the same terminal like most trolley routes, its still going to have some kind of recovery time to insure the next trip starts ontime. Then the next trips ends at 3/Wall at 9:20 to Shoreline at 9:55 is another deadhead up I-5 and about a 15 minute break. Not until the 3rd trip from Shoreline to downtown to White Center is through routed. And the return trip even though I get relieved is through-routed back to Shorleine.
A trip is only thorugh-routed if one trips ends with a timepoint (for example the runcard I showed you at 3/Pike 10:46am) and the next trip on starts with the same timepoint as a different route.
Casey,
Yes, thats me. Thanks for the info and the clarification. It’ll be an interesting shakeup at any rate, particularly at Central. I’ll hope that your experience holds with the Spokane street closure and other issues that crop up with this run combination. Looks like I have two potential opportunities to get a break – at the end of my 54E and at the end of my 18E. While your valuable past experience is probably a good indicator we will still be dealing with schedulers responding to the audit recommendations (I talked to them when they were at Central they indicated that scheduled layover times would be noticaably reduced – and this run has no scheduled layover time).
We’ll have to keep in touch, particularly as these schedule changes impact more run cuts at other bases as we head into the Winter shakeup.
litlnemo,
State law exempts bargaining units from the laws regarding rest breaks and meal periods that cover non-represented workers.
And no – it’s not a stupid question, I had to look it up.
What Casey has been (generously – thanks, C) reassuring me about here is that even though there is no SCHEDULED break or layover, given that there are 2 deadheads on this run there should still be opportunity for a break as I get set up for my next trip.
That is different however than having a GUARANTEED break, and our contract language states that any assignment that is “5 hours or more” must have a minimum SCHEDULED 15 minute layover to help guarantee that a driver will have some kind of scheduled break. There is no such requirement in our contract covering part time drivers that are working an assignment of 5 hours or more.
Warren,
There’s an exception to the 5-minute guarantee if the trip is “live looped” (I’m not sure what that means) or through-routed. There is no contractual guarantee that I could find in the bargaining agreement for the 5-minute break at the end of revenue trips, although it is mentioned in The Book (with the noted exceptions).
Correction on that – I found the contract language for the 5-minute guarantee. Still wondering what “live looped” means though.
The language referring to requiring layovers for assignments of 5 hours or more:
“15.3.I In order to provide reasonable breaks, METRO shall schedule at least one 15-minute layover in assignments over five hours in length and an additional 15-minute layover in weekday assignments over eight hours in length.”
The section dealing with part-timers reads:
The provisions of Article 15, Section 3, Paragraphs A, B, C, D, F, G, H, I, J, M, O and P shall also apply to Part-Time Operators.
I did have some correspondence with Paul Bachtel on this today and his feedback was less than positive. However as I see it – this piece of work is in violation of contract.
Correction again – this piece of work has a layover built in, but it’s not obvious. It’s pick paranoia – compounded by communication where Bachtel told me in an e-mail that the 15-minute requirement for pieces of work 5 hours or more doesn’t apply to part-timers – when it actually does.
I hate shakeup.
Sounds like a good time to switch to the Vashon Water Taxi if you’re used to riding the 118 or 119 across the water.
Whoever rides the 5:30 sailing may be in for a wait if they catch the bus on the Vashon side as both buses that pick up the riders come over on the 5:40 from Fauntleroy.
Does the water taxi really work for commuters? It seems to dump you in a pretty empty area a mile or more from Alki Point, with only an occasional shuttle bus.
[off-topic]
West Seattle people should just use the water taxi. It works.
I noticed that the Water Taxi already is doing some good business, hopefully they will continue. Plus, if this is going to last 18 months, perhaps a year-round schedule on the West Seattle Water Taxi should be considered, at least for this winter.
I live in West Seattle and work in SODO and have taken the last two months to explore alternatives, such as walk-Link-Water Taxi-walk. I think it will be a mess, but I can navigate through it somehow.
Most people over here are worried about delays when the lower bridge is opened. But I think it’s the railroad shunting operations that block Hanford Street dozens of times a day, often for as long as 20-30 minutes at a time that will be the real problem.
Metro will be adjusting the leave times of the 116, 118, 119 seven minutes early in the PM, but 21,22,35,56,57 will have nothing. Starting next shakeup those routes will have 3 extra minutes between 1st Av S & Spokane timepoint (will become S Hanford St. and 26th Ave SW & Spokane.) 3 minutes is not enough…..most of the time, except evenings.
A union rep from ATU 587 met with the Port of Seattle, Metro, SDOT, and the trucking company for the port and they don’t want Metro there at all (except Metro.) But Metro isn’t really doing much about it. I’ve heard that the Port will not open the bridge during peak hours (good thing), but once peak traffic clears the backup of marine traffic, the Port warned could be up to or around an hour. In that case, Metro requested the Port call the Metro and we may then be rerouted via 1st Ave S bridge to W. Mariginal Way.
This construction is really made picking for us drivers a change. Most drivers are jumping ship off of the 15/18/21/22/56/57……I’d rather go drive the 26/124 that deal with this.
ATU 587, the port and the trucking company, I have heard, have an idea of making the last SB stop at Royal Brougham, Left on Edgar Martinez, South on I-5, then West on the Spokane St Viuaduct to the bridge. And then running a shuttle between Edgar Martinez/Atlantic St & S Hanford. I don’t think this will happen unless the public demand this. I know that wouldn’t be great for SODO workers, but the routing effects not only the downtown to West Seattle passengers, but the northbound W Seattle passengers and 15/18 passengers too. Not to mention routes terminating in West Seattle may be late deadheading back downtown to start other trips that have nothing to do with this closure. Or in the mornings, some buses might be late starting routes into town for the AM commute. We will be running way behind and us drivers are going to hear about it too.
P.S. Although Monday is the first day of this closure…..just wait until Thurs and the following Wednesday….there are 12:40pm M’s games which will dump out just in time for rush hour. Be patient and get out of downtown before 3pm if possible those days.
Casey,
That certainly explains why there were still DTA’s left when I picked yesterday. The run I picked, while providing a decent amount of time (6:18) is a convoluted nightmare – and without so much as a 5-minute break built in.
I had intended to pick the same work I’d driven the last 2 shakeups and work the ATL, but it was taken as Central Base operators appeared to be running for the hills.
Should be an interesting shakeup. I intend to claim every dang minute of unscheduled overtime and hit comfort stations as I need to, even right in the middle of my run with passengers on board if that’s what it takes.
That also applies to Ryerson Base to a certain extent too, as the 60/131 and 134 will suffer a similar fate on June 30th, when the South Park Bridge is closed for an indefinite time.
Time to start working to the book. There are going to be a LOT of late buses out there, and not just due to bridge closures.
I suspect this will be causing significant delays.
http://westseattleblog.com/blog//srv/htdocs/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/uscgswingletter.pdf
If anyone has ever experienced trying to get in/out of West Seattle when there’s even a minor traffic disruption people have a better understanding. The Water Taxi is a great option, but the circulator shuttle has a limited route and many people would have to transfer from one West Seattle route to the shuttle to the W. Taxi and then to another bus or two to get to their destination downtown or beyond (and that’s with buses running on time). And there’s no guarantee the W. Taxi will be year-round yet (unless WS residents start writing to powers that be in droves supporting it).
It’ll get worse in a year or so when E. Marginal Way will be shut down for 6 years between Royal Brougham and Atlantic. All traffic (including cyclists) will have to route down 1st Ave. I’m just hoping that one will be able to access E. Marginal southbound from Atlantic (I am a cyclist). And then the south viaduct lanes will be greatly reduced in number as well at the same time all this is happening. There are only two ways in/out of W. Seattle only by roadways (i.e. for bus access too), unless one routes through Burien.
Then the closure of one of the two eastbound lanes of the Spokane St. Viaduct kick in this summer for 8 weeks. You bet this will effect all buses in/out of WS as well. http://westseattleblog.com/2010/05/3-days-to-1st-ave-s-onramp-closure-sdot-tour-reveals-other-news
While I mainly cycle to work and only occasionally bus these closures won’t effect me too much, other than likely having to deal with frustrated and angry drivers who aren’t paying attention. I suspect that bus ridership will not increase during this time since they will be stuck in the same backups as SOVs and still have to make the bus stops. I hold out hope for the W. Taxi…
One MUST wonder whether SDOT ever even considered bus/HOV lanes on First Ave S between Hanford and Jackson…
All of this begs the question about why a better job (billboards, tv shows, press releases, leaflets, mailings, etc) does not seem to have happened in and around WS and on the Spokane St Corridor about all of this.
There have been a few leaflets and pamphlets circulated, but not many. I’ve only been up on what’s going on b/c of WS Blog and my attendance at Bike Board meetings. Funny that the Seattle PI just figured out the problem late last week.
I’ve gotten at least 2 brochures about the whole project and I am more Westwood than West Seattle Bridge. Not to mention all the texts and tweets from various agencies, the new signs they’ve put up in time for the closure on 35th and on Fauntleroy and all the articles in West Seattle Blog, which is read by everyone (isn’t it?) who lives over here.