Metro finally released maps for RapidRide E (Aurora) and F (Burien/Renton), to begin service in 2013.
If you’re curious about the difference between a “station stop” and “other stop”, check out this report. Metro also has a much improved website outlining RapidRide’s amenities.
Route E has way too many stops.
Hear, hear. Even with the number of stops cut for RR, it’s still too many.
Yeah, it does. Aside from removing the odd routing near Green Lake, it doesn’t seem that much better than the 358.
Way too many. Stops 5 blocks from one another? That’s hardly any better than the 358..
The way I read the Metro website is that these are only proposed stop locations. They’ll be taking community input as to which ones are actually chosen. I don’t think they intend to use all of them.
Community input? So what you’re saying is that there will actually be more stops than what this shows.
No, Metro has stated that average stop distance for RapidRide will be about a 1/2 mile. The dots represent potential locations. The ones that “get the most votes” and maintain the 1/2 mile average will be the ones that are chosen.
Agreed. I think the only stops eliminated from the current 358 routing are the ones on that weird routing by Green Lake, at least through the city of Seattle. I am not as familiar with the current stops in Shoreline, does anyone know if there are stops being eliminated up there?
If Line E is just going to be the same as the 358, what is the point in spending all that money to convert it over? It will still be (a) filled with hookers going from their flop houses at N 46th up to N 130th where they meet customers, and (b) painfully slow. A few special streetlights won’t help move folks along faster if they’re still stopping every 5 blocks, and without full off-board fare payment, what is the point?
What the northwest part of the city needs is true express bus service–a bus that stops at a handful of stops in the north end and then proceeds without stopping to downtown, with possibly a stop at 46th for the U-district transfer. They could just offer it during commuting hours, and it wouldn’t require construction of shelters and flashing lights and all that stuff. I mean, all that is nice, but I’d gladly trade it for a faster bus ride.
I take it back: I think there’s also one stop between 105th and 125th being cut. I can’t tell if it’s the one by Evergreen-Washelli, or the one by Home Depot. Since neither of those stops gets a ton of use, I doubt their removal will save much time.
301, 303, 316, 355.
Most of those routes take long meandering routes to get downtown. The 355 takes a 10 to 15-minute detour through the U-District, which means it takes longer to get downtown on that route than on the 358. (I know, I’ve tried the 355–it’s much less hooker-filled than the 358, but it’s slower.) The 316 used to hop right on the freeway at Northgate (I lived near the 316 route back in 2001–it was a great route then) but now goes all the way to Green Lake before it becomes an “express.” And the 303 serves Shoreline, not Seattle, and in addition, it stops at the freeway stop at 145th and again at Northgate, both of which add time to the downtown commute. I will grant you that the 301 is less meandering, but only if you happen to live near 145th, which is where it comes off the freeway, and 145th is the city limits. Trying to get to 145th to catch the 301 isn’t a time saver over the 358 for people who live at, say, 130th or 105th.
I think things are just as bad on the east side of town. Growing up in Wedgwood, we used to be able to take the 76 from downtown and it bypassed the U-District. Now from downtown, it gets on the express lanes, then gets off at 42nd, winds its way up to the freeway stop at 45th (which often takes forever because traffic on that road is usually a nightmare), gets back on the freeway but on the mainline instead of the express lanes, where traffic is usually also a nightmare, and then gets off at 65th. All that, so that 2 people who’d rather take the 76 than the 71 can get on or off at 45th. It’s a downgrade from the previous express service that makes absolutely zero sense to me.
The best commuter route I’ve ridden (other than the 316, which was awesome before they revised it) was a CT route that stopped in front of my house, then stopped about 5 times before getting to a Park’n’Ride, and then it went straight to the freeway. It didn’t stop at any other freeway stations or Park’n’Rides along the way because they had their own commuter routes serving them. It didn’t run that frequently or all day, but it didn’t have to, because it wasn’t trying to be everything to everyone, and there was also an ST route that did do more of the stops along the way, for those that needed to go from one intermediate stop to another. Frankly, the commute from Edmonds took just a few minutes longer than my commute on the 358.
So, if the 76 didn’t get off the express lanes at 42nd St, how would it get off the freeway at 65th St?
Yes, the 76, 316 and 355 must use the 42nd exit to 7th to get out of the express lanes to exit at 65th or 85th. And the 355 in the morning to get into the express lanes. And the 355 may be slower if your going to the north part of downtown, but its quicker to the south part of downtown.
And also it’s a few more than two people who would rather take the 71 than the 76… At least three quarters of the 71 riders get off south of 65th, although I feel like I’ve seen a few more people on the Ravenna/Wedgwood end of it lately. I’m hoping that once North Link opens, they eliminate the 71 and 76 and instead have a bus going at least every 15 minutes all day from Green Lake (or Greenwood, or Loyal Heights) to Roosevelt to Ravenna to 65th & 40th, with half of them continuing on the little routing through View Ridge to Wedgwood.
The thing I like best about the 71 is that although it only comes every half-hour, it comes every half-hour all the time. It comes every 30 minutes in each direction 5am-1am Monday through Saturday, and 6am-1am Sunday. It would be nice to have a bus that’s frequent sometimes through Ravenna (my neighborhood) though.
That’s an interesting thought. Break the existing 48 at Green Lake operating between Mount Baker and Roosevelt stations. Then the 71 could become a View Ridge/65th St/north end of 48 routing.
I work in the south part of downtown and have not found the 355 to be faster than the 358. Maybe it’s the time of day I’m commuting–Aurora usually isn’t backed up in the mornings when I commute, although it is a bit in the evenings, but then, that U-district routing is usually much more jammed up in the evenings.
I think the old 76 that didn’t make that U-district stop used the mainline (although it’s been a while since I was a kid, so I could be wrong). Also not a great solution, but even with traffic it’s way faster than wasting 10-15 minutes on the U-district detour.
See, here’s what I think: a bus route that is designed to move people to downtown from someplace not near downtown, doesn’t need to stop at every intermediate stop along the way just in case someone might want to get off there. If there’s really a market for people going from the far away location to one of the intermediate stops, then offer a local service that serves those areas. But don’t make the commuters sit through stop after stop after stop. Because, if a bus takes 3 times as long as driving, more people will drive and less will take the bus. It’s always going to be a little bit longer to take the bus, but it can’t be THAT much longer.
No, the Proposed E line has too few stops. Remember, this line replaces the 358, so it is the *only* transit service Aurora will have. Don’t advertise the Zoo as a destination if there are no stops near the entrance. And the section between 75th and 85th is filled with shops and apartments – they need as good of transit service as they have now. the 358 is already the fastest N/S bus on the northside; BAT lanes and traffic signal priority can improve that slightly.
My true preference would be run it like Rapid in LA: with a local 358 and a limited-stop Rapid Ride E, but that isn’t on the table right now.
Will the Magnolia Community Club allow bus lanes on Aurora? They’ve fought hard against giving up space to non-SOV modes on 15th Ave W and Nickerson.
Even if they don’t object, I’ve no doubt the Queen Anne Community Council will take up the mantle.
We pay a heavy price when we don’t get involved in our neighborhood associations.
Bus lanes aren’t my worry on the part of Aurora by Queen Anne; it’s the traffic going 60+ mph (speed limit is 40) that just about give me a heart attack every time the bus needs to stop.
Well, let’s take the 15th Ave W (SOV) Coalition up on their call for an integrated transportation system, and figure out how to get space for all modes, with priority for freight and bus. I’ve heard complaints from the autophiles about bikes being the biggest problem in the bus lane. Let’s give them some solutions.
What’s rapid about buses that only come every 15 minutes? Doesn’t seem particularly convenient to me. Ten minutes or less… that’s what I generally use as a benchmark for conveniency of public transit.
15 mins isn’t ideal, but I’m much more willing to wait 15 than 30 or 60 mins.
Why isn’t the 44 being rebranded?
– Service every 10 minutes during rush hour and every 15 minutes until midnight, seven days a week: check (in fact, that’s better than any of the RapidRide buses will be once they’re implemented)
– Three doors: check
– Stop spacing: except for parts of Ballard and the U-District, stop spacing is about the same as it looks like it’ll be on the E line.
And they’re putting in a bunch of bus bulbs to speed it up, so it’ll have some BRT-y elements. I remember seeing a proposal for having the 44 be RapidRide (and having a RapidRide route up Lake City) I think as part of the Surface-Transit proposal for the viaduct.
A major disappointment with some of the lines is their lack of connectivity.
The Line C could extend a couple miles down Delridge/16th/Ambaum to Burien Transit Center, and meet up with the Line F, but it won’t.
The Line D could extend one mile up Holman Rd and meet up with the Line E, but it won’t.
While I agree with the Route D suggestion (or at least to Shoreline CC), there is already a frequent route along Ambaum between White Center and Burien Transit Center (Route 120)in addition to a limited-stop route on top of that (Route 560).
I suppose if they did extend Route C in a limited-stop manner similarly to Route 560 to Burien, then Route 560 could operate between Burien and Bellevue only, and perhaps more frequently since those resources could be re-invested.
The 560 runs only hourly most of the day through West Seattle.
If the Line C took over the 120 service from Westwood to Burien TC, and then took over the Line F’s portion from Burien to TIBS, we’d have three RapidRides meeting up at TIBS, and creating a Tukwila Grand Central Station with Link.
At that point, the 180 and 560 may as well be terminated at Airport Station.
I don’t know – I think the 120 could become a Rapid Ride line on its own. How about ending C in South Park instead?
Once the bridge is replaced (if it is replaced), then it sure would be nice to have the Line C reach Boeing. But then, it would have to run the length of the sprawled-out Boeing facilities, since the 124 is infrequent. By the time it gets to the south end of Boeing, it may as well go the extra mile to TIBS.
Yeah, the C Line should at least extend to White Center like the 54 does now, to provide connections with the 120, 60, etc.
I see Metro will be keeping the 358 “express” tradition alive with RapidRide “BRT” on the E line. For some reason I anticipated maybe half as many stops or less, while maintaining the 358 for local service. Instead, it pretty much is the 358.
I am not sure how an underlying 358 could be anticipated. We’ve known for a long time that was not the intention with the A-Line and Route 174.
I didn’t know that Route 15 has already been chosen for the D line. They were to choose between the 15 or 18 and leave the “loser” more or less as is. I spoke up and wrote comments to the effect that what I dislike most about both of those routes (locals only) is the jag to Queen Anne. I asked that whichever route (15 or 18) lost out, that that route be realigned to skip the Q.A. segment altogher, as long as Route D will include it. If Rapid Ride had skipped over Q.A. it would be a lot more rapid getting from Ballard and Crown Hill to DT Seattle.
Skipping Lower Queen Anne means skipping the Seattle Center and Key Arena, two of the biggest destinations on the 15/18. I, too, would like the stretch through Queen Anne be less of a milk run, but I don’t think we can get away with skipping the Key.
As an occasional rider of the 358, I sincerely hope most of the proposed “other stops” and even some of the “station stops” are eliminated. Around half of the stops could be done away with and I think that if the speed and frequency are still there, people would often be willing to walk the extra couple of blocks to take this as opposed to the 358.
I would like to see a stop just north of the aurora bridge where the 5 gets on/off of aurora.
I always wondered why there isn’t a stop there. It would be great for Fremont, and adding one stop 8 blocks away from the next one (and at a transfer point, no less) hardly seems like it will slow down the route much.
Where would you put it that is safe?
Two options, Kaleci:
1. Immediately before the southbound lanes merge / after the northbound lanes diverge. Believe it or not, the Aurora sidewalks begin immediately — there are painted crosswalks and everything:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=fremont,+wa&sll=42.407211,-71.382437&sspn=2.753883,4.235229&g=ma&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Fremont,+Seattle,+Washington&ll=47.652671,-122.347685&spn=0,0.00309&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=47.651747,-122.347237&panoid=h4BAmgao9MWvPc5Zf7K2GA&cbp=12,293.23,,0,6.95
2. Right on top of N 38th Street. This would be a little more difficult, since sidewalks would need widening, there might be more lane blockage, and it’s a less convinent transfer point. But both are doable.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=fremont,+wa&sll=42.407211,-71.382437&sspn=2.753883,4.235229&g=ma&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Fremont,+Seattle,+Washington&ll=47.652644,-122.34724&spn=0.001234,0.00309&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=47.652763,-122.347238&panoid=rxZiTortEKdvLr3ofU8yBQ&cbp=12,228.44,,0,9.61
I’m usually all for stop reduction. But with the (in)frequencies we have in this city, it’s always seemed nuts for buses to pass major transfer points or major destinations like Fremont without stopping.
I seem to recall predicting that off-board payment would be the selling point of BRT-in-Seattle, then get cut at the last minute.
I feel vindicated, but still sad.
Yeah it’s been gone from the plans for quite a while now. Woohoo RapidRide.
Cash will still be accepted at the front. Our only condolence on that score is that ORCA users will get their seats before the change fumblers get past the operator.
Moderate frequency.
A fight with each automobile-dominated neighborhood association to get bus lanes.
Cash holdups at the front.
Same stops as the routes being replaced.
Ugly Wienerschnitzel colors.
Well, at least we’ll get past the BRT vs. light rail infighting if a program like this gets proposed again.
(And no, this whiny low-tech geek does not blame it on the operators, who didn’t plan or half-heartedly carry out the BRT program.)
You’d think it would, at the very least, occur to them to put an open space behind the driver with an on-board payment machine. It could still print out the required proof-of-payment receipt, but it wouldn’t take a moment of the driver’s time or attention.
I think this is what they need to do. Metro is trying to do proof of payment in a half assed way and I’m not optistic about it working.
Are any of the Line A stations or stops built out yet?
I don’t see why they continue to neglect one of the most used routes in the area — Seattle-Southcenter-Kent Station.
The volume of bus traffic is ridiculously high on the 150 and obviously would benefit from an express bus that makes only those stops.
This looks like another great example of the Seattle-style of trying to please everybody and ending up with a mediocre product because of it.
These are way too many stops. There should be half this many stops. This is not “Rapid” ride.