Photo by Gordon

They’re decidedly more low-tech than the ones that used to be at Tukwila, but ST now has next train signs at Seatac. It’s a nice feature to have, although it’s astonishing how rarely ST uses the variable message boards for this kind of thing.

67 Replies to “New Next Train Signs at Sea-tac”

  1. They don’t work! I was leaving the airport the other day, and it was pointing to what I thought was the wrong train. But, in a moment of questionable trusting, I boarded the train it was pointed to. 5 minutes later, the other train left, forcing me to wait another 10 for my train to leave. And then, two or three minutes before my train left, the operator came by and switched it to the other side. A few people came up the escalators and boarded the other train, setting themselves up for a 12 minute wait when a 2 minute wait was available.

        1. I wonder what the qualifications are to become an official ST sign switcher, and how much it pays.

      2. The sign is changed two ways … 1 the security guard when present changes the signs … 2 the operator of the train about to depart changes it right before he climbs into his seat on the train.

    2. Last time I took the train, we got to the station right as a train pulled in. The operator walked over to his new train on the other side of the platform. He also switched the sign to point to his new train. Ten minutes later, the Sound Transit sign switcher showed up and switched it back without so much as a glance at our fully-loaded train!

      A poor tourist who got their at the last minute ended up sitting on the wrong train and watched us pull away.

      1. Maybe switching Link-car signs from “Sound Transit” to “Out of Service” would be more helpful. And lock the doors on the out of service train. The fact that we don’t have this figured out is embarrassing. And to introduce human-error-prone sign switching? Pure folly.

        1. A bit entertaining though. ST should throw in another designated sign switching as collateral duty to correct for the error of the second sign flipper:
          1st sign flipper (operator of next departing train) – sign flipped to correct train
          2nd sign flipper (official sign flipper) – sign flipped to wrong train
          3rd sign flipper (security guard?) – sign flipped back to correct train
          Train departs
          Process restarts

  2. The most important information is the “push button to open doors” part. It’s rather confusing to show up and see a train with closed doors. The buttons are not immediately obvious.

  3. Don’t worry, it’s not just ST that has difficulty using the variable message boards for anything useful. NYC Transit installed them all over the place and for the most part all they show is the date and time. Or sometimes just gibberish, when they’re not working right. Likewise for VTA, with the added twist that the time can be wrong, sometimes by as much as twelve and a half hours.

    1. the south side of the southern-most message board on the south-bound platform at Columbia St. Station has been off by about 3-6 hours since LINK started running last year.

      1. The announcements at SODO station have been out of sync too. The announcement on one platform will start about 2 seconds after the other, leaving both garbled and sounding like a bad echo.

  4. I think I’ve wrapped by head around the reasons why real-time signs aren’t workable yet for the whole route, but terminus stations should be easier, no? Isn’t sufficient layover provided that most trains leave SeaTac on-time? If so, providing digital signs displaying next train departure (even if its static info based on the schedule) should be easier there than at stations on MLK or in the DSTT. Also, are arriving trains assigned specific platforms at SeaTac, or are those assigned dynamically throughout the day? If it’s pre-determined which runs will use which platform, that’s only further reason to make the information available on the variable message boards.

    Oh, and I love how everyone in the picture is looking at/walking toward the wrong train. =)

    1. The track closer to the terminal is the “priority” track. If it’s empty, a train headed towards SeaTac will use that track.

      The track switching system is automated, but I don’t know how automated it is.

    2. These are all very logical conclusions but Metro and ST don’t really seam to care about what is logical when it comes to real time information and LINK schedules.

  5. The fact that only 5 people are visible in this picture inductively proves that Airport Link is a complete and utter failure.

    1. Well Norman the doorman, Jr., look at how one of the trains has its doors open. They’re probably sitting down and avoiding the heat.

      1. And the ones who wanted the quick bus into the city took my advice and rode the Gray Line Airporter.

        1. Which is now at twenty minute headways amazingly. I have to wonder how many (few) passengers they are carrying…

      1. Norm the Storm will only be satisfied when the trains look like this as they board:

        3. That’s proof that Link is an utter failure and will never carry more than 11 people at once. It should be dismantled at once and the parts auctioned off. Maybe a progressive city like Houston would be interested in buying some used LRVs.

    4. With 2 trains at the station, why would you expect people to be waiting on the platform?

    5. actually … the reason why I took the photo and was not on the train was because all the seats were taken in both cars … didn’t want to stand all the way back to seattle.

        3. Last time I detrained at TIB about 6 weeks ago that was the case – both signs lit.

        4. Both of the signs were lit as of LAST FRIDAY, when I took LINK from TIB to Int’l Dist/Chinatown and back.

  7. I logged on fully expecting to see a nice post on Central Links 1st birthday – complete with photos and balloons. So I’ll say it here:
    HAPPY BIRTHDAY LINK.
    To all the dedicated employees that built and run the system, Thank you. Pat yourselves on the back. It’s been a long journey.

    1. Huh? Seatac is a center platform. But there are often trains on both tracks, so passengers need to know which train is the next to depart.

      1. I think Sherwin’s saying that when TIB was the terminus, we consoled ourselves by saying, “At least when SeaTac is open we won’t have this problem anymore due to center platforms”, but alas here we are.

    2. I just noticed the big blue question marks in the photo above the sign. One for each side. Coincidence? Maybe.

    3. Airport station does have a center platform, and the sign is pretty unnecessary. It’s pretty easy to tell which train is next because it has more people in it and the door button is lit. I’m pretty sure the doors open before it leaves, in case somebody is still waiting on the platform. And the platform is narrow enough that you can walk to either train in a couple seconds.

      There should be center platforms at all stations. Sometimes people do change their mind which direction to go depending on which train comes first. And now, with trains and buses in the DSTT, they would be even more useful for transfering from a northbound train to a southbound bus and vice-versa. I’ve heard side platforms are cheaper and they make the stations smaller, but comparing Airport station to side-platform stations, I don’t see how that’s the case.

      1. That would be an expensive retrofit for the DSTT, but I think they are planning it for IDS when East Link opens to expedite North-to-East and West-to-South transfers.

        1. the plan is for center platforms at IDS … when East Link is finished … however I would like to see them at the other stations as well … since they all have a mezzanine level of some sort it shouldn’t be that difficult to cut holes for new stairs … elevators for the disabled might be a problem though

      2. during the day you cannot tell if the door button lights are on. people ALWAYS get confused … just stand on the platform for a while and you will see. Many people don’t understand that the airport is the last stop and very few understand that they have to push the button to open the doors.

        The real indicator is that the next train to leave has it’s destinations signs on … and the one that is after that has the signs either off or simply displaying “Sound Transit”

        1. Right–the lit door button should not be the indicator. For example, in the photo one train has its doors open and the other one does not. The arrow points towards the one with the doors shut. Most people arriving at the platform would probably choose to enter the one with the doors open rather than go towards the one that is shut and look for the lit door button.

          I realize that the open door train may well have just arrived and released passengers, but you wouldn’t know that if you were just getting up to the platform. If the destination sign is turned off, that would at least indicate a ‘not in service’ mode. Leaving “Sound Transit” on does not help a visitor who arrives and notices two trains, both lit and with signs on, on tracks that obviously only go one direction.

          Seriously, getting the informational signs to say this on the correct side of the platform should not be that difficult. “Next train downtown this side” is a lot more helpful than telling someone who left the airport and walked to Airport Station that they are, indeed, at Airport Station and not at, say, Beacon Hill.

  9. I had a funny experience with these signs the other day. I got to the platform at SeaTac Station and saw that the signs were pointed to an empty track, so I assumed that the train had just left and that no one had bothered to change the signs. I went over to the train that was sitting there and hopped on. A few minutes later a flood of people came up the escalator, and a security guard saw that I was sitting on the train and started directing everyone to get on my train. Moments later another train showed up at the empty platform, but the guard kept directing people to get on my train, even though the signs were pointing at the train that had just arrived. At this point I had been sitting on the train for about 10 minutes, along with probably 60 other people. After another few minutes the train that had just arrived switched its destination signs to Westlake and pulled out, with no passengers! I guess the next train signs were right after all! My train finally left about 5 minutes later. I felt slightly embarrassed for catalyzing the situation and causing all those people to wait an extra 10 to 15 minutes.

    1. How do you know that the train that departed was in service and not going back to the garage? Maybe the sign was correct for going downtown.

      1. Zed wrote, “the train that had just arrived switched its destination signs to Westlake and pulled out” (my emphasis). Trains returning to the O&M Facility say OUT OF SERVICE on the destination boards.

  10. For what it is worth, they are actually asking for bids for an electronic station sign to properly handle this. It’s been on the SoundTransit web site for a while now.

    Our company isn’t able to bit on it because they are asking for a package deal including installation on the platform, which requires a licenced contractor. Our company is only an equipment manufacturer.

    1. What’s wrong eith the electronic signs they have there now? Or the electronic signs they have sitting at Tukwila International Blvd?

      1. “What’s wrong eith the electronic signs they have there now?”

        (raises hand) They don’t tell you which is the next train to depart!

    2. Thanks, Glenn, that is good to know.

      But does anyone know why the current message boards can’t handle this or why they can’t move the boards from TIB?

  11. note: in the photo … the engineer of the train to the left had just switched the signs before getting into the cab. The doors are all open for the 1 minute to departure warning … I had just told the folks there which train was next … the mom/kid believed me (after asking which train went downtown) … the businessman did not (and he ended up waiting)

  12. if this was an april fools joke, it would be very funny. as an actual next train sign, it’s just sad.

      1. Inexpensive, yes. Short term… remains to be seen. A solution? Clearly not. Just in this comment thread there are several anecdotes of this “solution” being counterproductive. This looks more like incompetence than a solution.

  13. We as operators have been complaining about these signs since late June. We have been instructed “as close to departure time as possible, the operator of the next departing train will change the sign to face the platform of the next departing train to Seattle. Since we are required to be inside our cab 1 minute before departure to open the doors, ring the bell 5 times, set the destination, and prepare to leave, WE MUST TURN THE SIGNS 2 MINUTES BEFORE WE LEAVE POINTING TO THE WRONG TRAIN!

    From what I understand this came from Sound Transit staff, not Metro personel or managment operarating the system. The securty guards have nothing to do with the signs. The drivers have been very vocal about our dislike of the signs policy, but since the rule is now part of our train orders not following this policy can result in a 1-5 day suspention without pay for not following the train orders.

    2. That’s the most ridiculous situation I’ve ever heard. Can STB send a petition to Sound Transit asking them to let the next-departing driver change the sign to his direction as soon as he arrives?

  14. Ludicrous. This wouldn’t be a problem with proper real-time arrival information, but apparently ST didn’t consider it important to include this feature in their brand-new rail system when older systems across the country are being retrofitted to support it.

  15. Why can’t the onboard destination signs on the outside of the train be used to indicate which train is next? It wouldn’t require spending money on new equipment , they just need reprogramming. The signs on the train that’s to leave next could be programmed to alternate between “Downtown Seattle/Westlake” and “This train departs next”, and the train that’s not leaving until later can read “Out of service.” Then when the other train leaves, the “Out of sevice” train changes to the “next train” message, etc., etc. It doesn’t seem like rocket science.

    1. The train needs to be “keyed up” for the destination signs on the train to show anything other than “Sound Transit”

      We must take the keys with us when we leave the cab which cause the train signs to revert to “Sound Transit”

      Unfortunately we seem to have implemented a solution that is in search of a problem. I do not think that we left may people behind before it became necessary to put these sandwich board signs up. Policy still is that we ring bells and open doors shortly before departure which removes any doubt as to which train is leaving first. Many of us operators at night who sometimes take our breaks in the cab, sign up our train as soon as the other train leaves. Ironically, Now we must leave the cab shortly before departure to switch the sandwich boards which cause the destination signs on the train to show “Sound Transit” until we return to the cab to depart the station.

  16. Tom K’s comment is a easy and valid fix. However i seem to remember reading on this very blog a few months back that the train information displays at the stations were hardwired to only trigger when a train was two minutes away, no more no less. Since i presume the trains do not have any form of AVL equipment onboard it would be difficult to implement a better system until metro’s radio system is upgraded from the current 450/800 mhz system to their new system. Since Metro is moving ahead with their new radio system, i’d hope it would be intergrated with LINK and allow for real time information displays at the stations instead of the current nearly useless system that is currently in place.

    1. TomK is actually referencing the route/destination signs on the LRVs themselves. I suspect any message that Sound Transit loads can be manually triggered by the operator.

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