The extension of Amtrak trains 513/516 to Vancouver B.C. will end on October 31st, indefinitely truncating the trains back to Bellingham. The Canadian Border Services Agency was unwilling to relent upon their demand for roughly $550,000USD in annual border clearance fees, and neither WSDOT nor Amtrak is willing to pay the fee. WSDOT issued a press release criticizing the decision and has urged CBSA to reconsider. The Bellingham Herald reports that the B.C. government wished to see the trains continue without a fee but was overruled by CBSA on fiscal grounds. Approximately 73 people per day rode 513/516 between Vancouver and points south over the life of the extension, with the Olympics and the summer months averaging roughly 100 per day.
More after the jump…
While Canada’s federal fiscal prudence clearly exceeds our own, and though it has every right to determine its own requirements for international services, this is terribly disappointing news nonetheless. The fee is being imposed just before the completion of customs renovations at Pacific Central, and the viability of the service was more than adequately proven both during and after the Olympics. Further, this represents a continued trend of hostility to rail service by the Canadian government.
Yet current Vancouver-bound trains arrive 11 hours apart, and even those of us who oppose the fee should recognize that this presents staffing challenges. In this light, perhaps this represents an opportunity to better utilize our Talgos. Currently, 510 sits at Pacific Central for 6 hours before becoming 517, while 516 sits 7 hours overnight before becoming 513. Interlining 500/517 (Eugene to Vancouver, BC to Seattle) and 510/509 (Seattle to Vancouver BC to Eugene) would provide the same level of service, allow Vancouver arrivals to be spaced only 5 hours apart, and for the first time provide end-to-end service on the Cascades corridor. Something tells me CBSA would find this much more agreeable.
In any case, the wording of WSDOT’s press release seems to indicate their view that the issue is not yet settled, so look for further updates in the coming months.
1) Can the clearance be done at the Peace Arch, albeit with the added delay?
2) I would hope that this causes a closer look by citizens of British Columbia as to the actual costs of CBSA services provided to the bus companies at Blaine, the airlines at YVR and the cruise ships/cargo ships at the various Port Metro Vancouver piers.
The anti-rail bias is obvious.
An alternitive to the excellent interlining proposal would be to switch the daily Vancouver train to Superliner Equipment and free up a Talgo set for more Seattle-Portland/Eugene service.
That is probably the best idea I’ve seen. That or WSDOT purchase some Horizon/Comet cars for the service.
I do also like the idea of having the Eugene – Vancouver, BC trains. That actually would make a lot more sense and would probably improve the ridership even more.
Interlining would free up a set also, wouldn’t it? Using the current 500/509 equipment with 510/517 frees up the current 510/517 set right? No superliner needed, and you get the ability for an extra Sea/Pdx trip without any new sets. But it’s true we don’t really save much time on the north line by using Talgos.
I’m not computer-savvy (or smart) enough to do all the figuring on Talgo train-set usage and maintenance cycling, but I know that Talgo wishes to have each set spend the night in Seattle about every 3 days for a look-see. If Zach’s idea of 500>517 and 510>509 can assure that each of the 5 sets spends the required time in Seattle, then the DOT and Amtrak ought to propose this as a possible fix. It’d certainly make CBSA’s life “easier”. One must ask the larger question, of course: How is it that Canada’s anti-rail bias has grown even stronger than that of the US? Only 5 trains per day each way between the 2 largest cities, 3X weekly across the country with no service to Calgary, 6X weekly east from Montreal beyond Quebec City and only minimal service through either Toronto and none through Montreal? That is even less of a “National” service per capita than Amtrak offers in the US.
The Interlining proposal is a GREAT IDEA,
For a Third train!
It would be great if the CBSA would board the northbound trains in Bellingham and do all the checks during the 20 or so minute ride to Peace Arch. And a stop in Blaine would be convenient for all the people living in White Rock and Surrey who don’t want to drive to downtown Vancouver to catch the train; but somehow, I doubt that CBSA and DHS would be happy with that arrangement.
If the problem is the late arrival time of train 516 (1050 pm or later), maybe WSDOT could look into running 506 to VAC instead of 516. Train 506 would leave Seattle about 415pm, arrive VAC about 815pm. The problem is that 517 would then have to leave VAC at about 130pm to cover the last daily trip from Seattle to Portland, so there wouldn’t be an evening departure from VAC to Seattle. When the new Talgo trainsets arrive (2012 and later), it may be possible to run 3 daily roundtrips to Vancouver, but currently Amtrak is still tight on equipment, so it’s not possible to round up another trainset for another frequency.
Fortunately it appears that the BC Government isn’t giving up.
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Second+daily+Amtrak+trip+derailed+Transportation+Minister/3558379/story.html
Does anyone know how much the second train cost US Customs?
No, but that’s a good question. Also, considering that 513/516 allowed British Columbians to take rail daytrips to Seattle for the first time, I’d bet that proportionally more of them have used 513/516 than 510/517.
That kind of makes me wonder how many riders are Canadian citizens.
Oh. That’s probably the reason the short-sighted Harper government in Canada doesn’t want the train. They might be convinced if they thought Americans would spend money in Canada, but if Canadians are spending money in the US, well, they certainly want to discourage that. It’s not like they care about what Canadians want.
From the theprovince.com article:: “Washington DOT spokesman Andrew Wood, who helps run the service, said the second train brings an average of 73 passengers to Vancouver,”
If this is actually accurate — if it’s bringing people TO Vancouver rather than away from it — then the Canadian government is especially nuts. I figured how much each vistor would have to spend in Vancouver for the federal government there to completely recoup the Border Services “cost” in sales taxes.
In federal sales taxes: $413
In provincial sales taxes: $295
In the two combined: $173
Odds a vistor will do that? High. Odds that ridership will go up over time? Also high, though higher if BC and Canada ever fix the *massive* rail bottlenecks on their side of the border.
What if the inspection facility was combined with the Peace Arch crossing. That way they don’t need “extra” staff because they could just walk over when the train comes. And besides, drivers don’t have pay to cross the border.
There are pros and cons to that. Clearing customs at the border would be cheaper, allow for more efficient staffing, and eventually allow for additional stations inside B.C. A SkyTrain connection in New Westminster/Surrey, or a stop in White Rock, would both be quite popular.
But we have to be careful. The Maple Leaf (NYC-Toronto) and the Adirondack (NYC-Montreal) both have awful customs delays caused by the forced de-training/re-training of all passengers. We’ve been really lucky to be able to do our checks (mostly) at Pacific Central.
Just like they make everyone get out of their cars at the border. Yeah, right.
The Customs Service behavior towards the Maple Leaf and the Adirondack is dereliction of duty. (It doesn’t quite come up to the criminal and unconstitutional level of the US Border Patrol behavior towards DOMESTIC trains.)
When I crossed into Canada on the Maple Leaf, I did not have to de-train. In fact, they wouldn’t let us de-train until Immigration and Customs were completed (Niagra Falls, ON is just outside the train). I was actually destined for Niagra Falls, ON and I arrived about 90 minutes after the train stopped.
No, we dont want to slow the trains down enroute, even if it does add a stop. This isnt europe where border control is handled quickly and quietly, but the US where its handled intrusivly and inefficently with no real goals accomplished. Although the blaine people are looking towards restoring their station, which might make a good stop on the Cascades.
In days gone by (before Amtrak and the imposition of the DHS Stassi upon our country) as operated by the Great Northern Railway, the Canadian Customs got on the morning train southbound at White Rock and rode to the south end of Chuckanut where they got off in a pasture and boarded the northbound train and did all their enquiries on the train before it got to Blaine. If they weren’t done, the train waited at Blaine until they finished (and threw any undesirables off there). Similarly, the US Customs and Immigrations gentlemen (as they mostly were in the 1950s and early 1960s until Nixon’s “Operation Intercept”) got on the northbound train at Blaine, rode into Vancouver, set up shop in the station, asked their questions and rode back to the border. My memory is that a car drove the US inspectors from Blaine to Vancouver in the early morning so they could do their thing in Vancouver and on the ride down to Blaine, leaving any undesirables at White Rock for the RCMP to handle. All trains called at both White Rock and New Westminster in those gentler times.
Nathanael says:
September 21, 2010 at 5:19 pm
The Customs Service behavior towards the Maple Leaf and the Adirondack is dereliction of duty. (It doesn’t quite come up to the criminal and unconstitutional level of the US Border Patrol behavior towards DOMESTIC trains.)
I’ll bite. How is it unconstitutional for US Border Patrol to be on a domestic train?
Intermediate stops north of the border would be nice, though I don’t know if I would use them.
This is awful news. I have been taking the train to Vancouver BC from Seattle regularly and it’s a great service! I think that this is going to hurt both Washington & British Columbia as people travel regularly and often take the train instead of flying. It’s a wonderful little trip for both local people and tourists.
Saving on the fees will cost a lot in goodwill and other benefits.
There is still a round-trip per day between Vancouver and Seattle. This eliminates the morning departure from Vancouver and the evening extension from Bellingham into Canada.
How can 73 passengers per day on a 12-car train be considered “viable”?
Just like your 158/159 bus is half empty at Benson. It fills up along the line to Seattle.
A bus does not cost as much per mile to operate as an Amtrak train. What is the cost of taking that train to Canada, vs the fares paid by the 73 people per day who go to Canada? What is the cost of that train compared to putting those 73 people on 2 buses? Do two buses cost as much to operate as a 12-car Amtrak train?
The photo that headlines this article is in deed beautiful however it is attributed to “The Discovery Institute” which unfortunately I would categorize as a very controversial fringe organization. A well funded organization that in my opinion is dangerous to our civil democracy because it advocates wedge political (and pseudo scientific) positions that are designed to erode the constitutional separation of church and state and that are not based on sound science.
I would like to respectfully suggest where possible that to avoid this blog community becoming unnecessarily attached to such controversy that authors/editors be more selective in the choice of picture sources used and to perhaps utilize publicly available sources such as this shot from wiki-media commons http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Pacific_Central_Dawn.jpg
In all fairness, the organization really has two sides — a pretty well-respected transportation policy side and the more nutty ‘intelligent design’ side.
60-68 D President
68-76 R President
76-80 D President
80-92 R President
92-00 D President
00-08 R President
08-12 D Presdient
D=24, R=28, Only once has an elected party failed to regain the White House after a single term so unless President Obama fails miserably we’re dead even on the blame game. It’s harder to remember congressional majorities but it seems to me the D’s have held the edge in the branch that makes law.
Please delete, posted to wrong thread.
This is a sad day for Train lovers to go to Canada every other month. :{
Why do we even need a border check? Europe has survived with open borders. The US and Canada can as well.
Can survive, and did so rather well until the Nixon era. The misguided War on Drugs, followed by the Bush era paranoia foisted on us after the crimes of September 2001 in NYC have contributed to the nonsensical situation we have at the border. Inexcusable, but sadly understandable given the irrationality of federal decision-making over the last several decades.
Crap, comment was supposed to go here:
…because then the terrorists will win?
If we leave the Canadian border open, those frost backs will sneak across to buy our cheap gasoline and cigarettes at Costco in Blane.
We have to close that border because who knows what undesirables will fly to Canada, clear Canadian Customs and then try to enter the USA. For all we know peaceniks and nobel peace prize winners will try to enter illegally.
Meanwhile the BC government is proposing to eliminate the jet fuel tax on international flights out of YVR–saving the airlines about $20 million a year.
http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2009-2013/2010PREM0162-001103.htm
Well if the BC government can afford that, why can’t they afford $550k?
Despite my anger at this decision, I’m not surprised. We have fairly anti-rail governments in both Ottawa and Victoria (and have had so, especially with respect to BC/Western Canada, for quite a while, regardless of political stripe). We essentially have Bush-lite in the PMO and the provincial “Liberal” government (they’re actually a neoliberal/right-wing big tent party) is the same one that cancelled BC Rail passenger services and “sold” the railway to CN (of which a scandal surrounding the sale involving potential insider deals is still, after 8 years, before the courts). The BC government is only paying lip service to the Cascades service, still refusing to fund or even talk about much needed construction of a faster/upgraded ROW from the border to Pacific Central, instead focusing on unneeded highway construction and on trying to get themselves out of this HST fiasco.
CBSA is blinded by bureaucratic tunnel-vision rather than seeing the true economic picture (although, them having this directive forced on them by Ottawa would not be surprising at all). The railroad used to be one of the great foundations of the Canadian psyche; now, we seemed to have been infected with highway-, suburban-sprawl- and airport-itis.
It’s going to take a lot of lobbying on the pro-rail part to get this train back up and running.
“Interlining 500/517 (Eugene to Vancouver, BC to Seattle) and 510/509 (Seattle to Vancouver BC to Eugene) would provide the same level of service, allow Vancouver arrivals to be spaced only 5 hours apart, and for the first time provide end-to-end service on the Cascades corridor.”
I think this is a great suggestion. My question is, given the current on time performance of the Cascades, are one hour turnarounds in Vancouver possible/realistic?
I’d suggest 1:30 – just to be safe. Twice the turn around time a half century ago, but the world has changed in so many ways…