In this morning’s First Hill post, I inadvertently placed the Green Line Westlake station one block too far to the East compared to Sound Transit’s preliminary concept for the station . Oran has corrected the images in the original post, and I’ve revised the numbers accordingly. The numbers change a bit but the analysis doesn’t change qualitatively.

15 Replies to “CORRECTION: Westlake Location”

  1. Horray! This makes me feel much better about Sound Transit’s proposal, and marginally better about the First Hill routing, since the transfer will be easier.

  2. FYI: Only the thumbnail seems to be updated. Clicking and looking at the full size image still shows the map with the tunnel on 7th.

  3. Thanks for the attention, Martin. Though the design engineers would have doubtless caught this one long before they started digging.

    STB’s current level of discussion will be just fine for the time being. Everybody STB-related deserves a lot of credit for this amount of planning.

    But I also think that coverage should start to include “section” drawings, showing vertical dimensions should start to accompany the “plan” drawings for maps.

    Because underground, a lot of the first kind depends on the second.


    1. Reason engineers always start the shift with a lot of coffee is that it’s easy to lose track of all three dimensions.

      With tunnels, the map- plan drawings- depend very much on the what’s going on vertically- section drawings.

      Under the English Channel, the only kind of chalk rock that would hold the tunnel was vertically very narrow.

      Boring one degree too far up, and the Channel would drown everybody on shift. Same angle in the other direction might do the same with mud.

      One difference, however. The tunnelers didn’t have to worry about ripping our pipes or breaking into somebody’s basement.

      Good thing somebody besides me had that shift. Espresso machine’s on now. Sorry about that, mates!


  4. The thumbnails still appear to be linking to the old maps. They still show the station under 7th whereas the thumbnails now show it under 6th.

      1. Try Ctrl + F5 to “reload ignoring cache”; I’ve had browsers cache old versions of images on my computer before. Both pictures are looking fine for me now, in thumbnail and expanded versions.

  5. On a (somewhat) related topic, has anyone explored running a second line from Ballard to Redmond? All it would take is an interchange south of the IDS, and would allow single seat rides between the east side and SLU, QA, Ballard and NW Seattle. This would also mean 3 min headways between SLU and Bellevue. This seems like a lot to gain from a relatively small infrastructural change.

    1. Oh, and it would make much better use of the second DSTT by having two lines, serving points east, NW and south.

    2. I’ve proposed doing that in the past both with ST and here on STB.
      A logical way to approach this is to look at OD pairs (Origin-Destination) for all the possible combinations, then act accordingly.
      It may well be that more trips on a true E-W line from Redmond to Ballard (through SLU) would be generated, than on continuing the Redmond line to Northgate.
      Likewise, how many more one seat rides would be generated by leaving the Seatac line go to UW, and turn the W. Seattle line towards Ballard instead.
      I’ve not seen any of those kind of analysis before people here and at Seattle Subway start drawing a bunch of lines on the maps with different colors.

  6. This update makes my concern stand out even more. The curves required to do the Boren stop seem to be just too much to be reasonable to connect with a Westlake stop aligned along 6th. If you angle the stop a little further East/West, and continue the line on to Belltown, I could see this making sense, but the general sense is that this won’t happen because of SLU.

    The 8th stop seems like a nice compromise, assuming that it is financially and technically feasible with the station depth, I-5 crossings, and other challenges it adds.

      1. For any subway station in Downtown Seattle, the decision has to consider not only where the station will be, but what’s already there.

        In particular, Eighth and Madison is under a steep slope in a crowded neighborhood.

        Fifth, with the Library and on one side and the Federal Courthouse on the other, might be both better located and easiest to build.

        But for serving the Swedish Hospital complex to compensate for the serious loss of the original station, Boren is far and away the best.

        While I’m not only not a tunnel engineer but just got turned down for the part in the”box” soap opera based on the Green Line… the tubes might be easier to bore.

        But my point is that, like with the deleted station, and the Channel Tunnel, the considerations are always three dimensional. Four if you consider time.


      2. 8th is more viable than Boren, but is demonstrably less worthwhile than either of the other options.

        For once lazarus is right: ST’s current plan makes more sense for this route.

  7. Question. If the station were to move all the way to Boren, would it be possible to add a station in Yesler Terrace as well? Because if you’re going to cross I-5, might as well make the best of it.

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