Open Thread 44

72 Replies to “Open Thread 44”

1. Thanks on the countdown clocks. I guess I’ll just bookmark them.

   1. I’m going to keep adding some sort of countdown to the open threads. I agree that it would be neat to have them on the webpage itself.

      1. @Nathan,

         Concur. And I know this blog has done it before, so that code must be somewhere.

         But thanks for this. It is great to have countdown clocks available.

         There is a lot going on right now. These are exciting times.

         Thanks again.

2. Also, any word on when the pedestrian bridge at Redmond Tech Station is scheduled to open?

   It was supposed to open before the ELSL, but I’ve gone hunting and can’t find a date anywhere.

   Note: the eastern pier for the ped bridge at 148th St Station looks to be complete, but I don’t believe they have a firm schedule yet for the rest of the project.

   There is a lot of development going on around that 148th St Station, and the ped bridge will be well used.

   1. iirc the ped bridge for “Shoreline South” will open sometime after the extension. I think next summer? I do remember they were happy to be able to coordinate construction of the eastern piers and approach with the construction of the station to avoid post-opening impacts on the station.

      1. @Nathan,

         Ya, it should open well after the station, but it is good that they coordinated with ST to get the pier built now while it is easier to do.

         WSDOT also has a salmon crossing project that is going to happen in this area well after the ped bridge opens. I know WSDOT has asked Shoreline not to replant any trees on the west side until after WSDOT re-orients the creek.

   2. I can’t find anything about an opening date for the Redmond Tech Bridge beyond “soon” in a newsletter from the Mayor of Redmond celebrating the opening of the Overlake Village bridge and the Redmond Tech parking garage. Since the parking garage is open, it seems to me that it would be prudent to open the bridge soon, too. Hopefully one of our eastsider commentators knows more.

      1. @Nathan,

         Ya I can’t find anything on the date for RTS ped bridge either.

         If I find it, I’ll post it.

         Thanks

      2. RTS ped bridge users and RTS garage users are two separate groups of people. Most garage users won’t use the ped bridge, even those walking to the westbound 520 express bus stop. The walk across the 40th street bridge is almost half the distance. Garage users will use the ped bridge, however, if some car-commuting Microsoft workers switch from company garages to the RTS garage.

         “But, Sam, what about if it’s raining? Won’t people want to use the covered ped bridge to walk to the 520 bus stop, then?” You got me there, strawman. Touché.

3. Has Community Transit mentioned what they’ll do with the Double Talls after Lynnwood Link restructure?

   1. I have not seen any official word from CT regarding the double-tall buses. I think the boring answer is that they will assess the cost to own/operate and any contractual obligations they may or may not have regarding the grant funding they used to purchase the buses, and consider running the double-talls on routes that end up being busy enough to justify them after the Lynnwood restructure. My guess is that they will continue to auction off buses that are end-of-life and replace them with right-sized buses for their needs.

      There might be some interesting alternatives for the buses, like selling/leasing them to ST until they reach end-of-life, but I’d be surprised if we saw any real decision-making about them until next year.

      1. Isn’t STRIDE going to use some of those double-deckers?

         (Though I think artics will work better for BRT lines).

      2. Stride S1 and S2 will be double deckers, S3 will be articulated, all 3 lines will be electric vehicles.

      3. Alexander Dennis, the supplier of the double-deckers, was bought by New Flyer. They are working on a battery-electric version. Not sure if it’s ready for market. That is a really, really heavy vehicle. At a minimum ST is going to need a lot of indictive charging facilities in the field for those buses to make it back and forth all day on I-405. Think multiple bays in Lynnwood, Bellevue, and Burien. Charging at the Bothell base alone probably won’t suffice.

      4. “Stride S1 and S2 will be double deckers”

         Oh no. I hope I can get a seat in the lower level, and not in back where it’s too high to step up.

   2. https://www.masstransitmag.com/bus/press-release/53081063/community-transit-community-transit-sells-five-circa-2011-double-decker-buses

      > Community transit recently auctioned off five of its circa 2011 double decker buses to the highest bidders. The buses were the oldest of the agency’s double decker buses and reached the end of their transit lives with 200,000-plus miles on them.

      > Community Transit plans to offer more surplus Double Tall buses for auction in 2024.

      1. That being said not all express service is going away fyi. others are being redirected to serve lynnwood to everett/other cities

         https://www.communitytransit.org/transitchanges
         > Connects to new light rail service in Snohomish County with our new express 900-series routes

         I’d assume the 900 uses the double tall buses.

      2. I agree that it’s likely they’ll serve their express routes with the double-talls. I’ve never had the need to ride one, but it might be nice to catch one of the last runs out of downtown before they’re diverted elsewhere.

      3. Is ST using double-deckers for the proposed 515, and the 510 which will continue to serve downtown Seattle?

      4. @Brent, I suspect they will for the 515. The 510/512/513 all use double-deckers regularly (I see the occasional articulated bus substituted though).

      5. I looked at the 900-series service levels in the service change link. They aren’t impressive. Only one is all-day, the Stanwood-Lynnwood route, and it’s hourly, weekdays only. The rest are all AM/PM peak. So they aren’t some wonderful new thing; they’re almost like no service at all.

      6. The Stanwood-Lynnwood route has stops in obscure places. After Marysville 4th Street the next stops are the South Everett freeway station and Lynnwood TC. It completely skips Everett, which is understandable given the CT/ET relationship, but that’s where people might want to go. It serves the South Everett freeway station but skips Mariner and the Green Line. It does get people relatively quickly from Marysville to Lynnwood Station, but that’s about all it does.

      7. Only one is all-day, the Stanwood-Lynnwood route,

         The 909 will be all-day. It is designed to go with the ferry.

         Personally I’m not sure why they use the “900” label. The 400 and 800 series are pretty clear — the former goes to Downtown Seattle, the latter went to the UW and now goes to Northgate. Does the 900 series skip a bunch of stops? That would be weird, given that the 400-series buses don’t. For example the 412 makes 21 stops before getting on the freeway. It would be weird if the 901 (basically its replacement) skipped a bunch of stops. Is it peak-only? Apparently not. Are the buses “express”? Sort of. But so are a lot of the regular buses. The 201/202 has huge gaps between stops and will travel on I-5 a lot longer than the 901. The 909 won’t go on the freeway at all. The numbering system seems pointless, or at best inconsistent. I could definitely see it if it only applied to peak-only routes.

         As far as double-decker buses go, they have their advantages and disadvantages. They provide more seating, but less standing room. Getting from the upper level seats to the door can be tricky if the bus is moving. Thus dwell times tend to be longer. They are best suited for bus routes that involve a lot of riding, and not much on and off. The 594 is a good example. It only makes a handful of stops the entire time, and yet a typical trip is from Lakewood to Seattle. Seating space is way more important than dwell time. The 400-seriees buses for Community Transit are similar. In the future though, there aren’t that many, although I can see a few candidates:

         * 900-Series — Some of these definitely, but not all of them.
         * 201/202 — This is basically a hybrid express/regular bus. It makes plenty of stops in Everett and along Ash Way. Otherwise it would be a good candidate.
         * 117 — This seems like a good choice, assuming a lot of riders are going from the ferry to Link.

         Of course if a 40-foot bus never fills all of its seats then it doesn’t need the extra level. That may be an issue as well. A lot of these commuter buses used to be fairly crowded, and now they aren’t.

      8. The 900 numbering is presumably to say the go to a different transfer point.

         The 201/202 will presumably go away when Swift Gold starts. Unless it continues in the gap until Everett Link. Its few stops in Everett are because of the CT/ET issues, namely that Everett taxpayers aren’t paying for it

      9. The 900 numbering is presumably to say the go to a different transfer point.

         Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. Do these buses all connect to Link? Actually, no. The 907 goes from Stanwood to SeaWay. Furthermore, the vast majority of regular routes go to a Link Station, so even if all of the 900 buses did, it would be nothing special.

         I guess the only thing that makes them special is their schedule . Most of CT buses are not peak-oriented. They run clock-face schedules (e. g. every 30 minutes). They might run more often during peak, but they do so both directions. The 900-series buses have something out of the ordinary when it comes to timing. Most of them only run peak direction. The 905 runs hourly, but it runs every half hour peak direction (during rush hour). The 909 runs every 50 minutes (with the ferry). So while there isn’t consistency within the group (the 905 and 909 are clear outliers) they are different than the other routes in terms of scheduling.

      10. The 201/202 will presumably go away when Swift Gold starts. Unless it continues in the gap until Everett Link.

          That is a good point and another example of the weakness with the Swift system. The 201/202 are good buses, and they are about to become very good buses (when it comes to regional transit). For most of the route you have 15 minute serves most of the day. They are basically a combo bus. They act as both an express between cities, but they also serve various areas along the way. They don’t make that many stops in Everett, but they still stop five times. They also stop along the Ash Way corridor (seven times). But it still functions very well as an express. The key regional connections are covered. Any combination involving Marysville, Everett, Ash Way TC* or Lynnwood TC are fast and fairly frequent (especially for regional service). The 512 is faster, but doesn’t serve much of Everett. It only stops twice in the city (and one of those stops is basically nothing but a freeway parking lot).

          All of this means that if you are in Everett, the 201/202 is probably your best bet unless you are lucky enough to also have the 512. There is no way you turn down a 201/202 for a 512 unless you can see the 512 coming. Both come every 15 minutes, so even if you are lucky enough to be close to a 512 bus stop, you are just as likely to catch the 201/202. Of course if you are further north (than the Everett Station) the 201/202 is your best option.

          So what happens when Swift Gold gets here? If the 201/202 goes away that means a lot more people have a two-seat ride to Lynnwood TC. Maybe it overlaps the Gold Line. That is expensive, and would mean that someone going from Marysville to Lynnwood (or Seattle) still has to transfer. It just seems like another case where the agency is trying to find a place for BRT instead of trying to improve the network.

          * I’ve started calling “Ash Way Park and Ride” the “Ash Way Transit Center” because it acts like a transit center. Various buses detour to serve it. Other buses terminate there (even though there isn’t much around it). For all intents and purposes it is a transit center.

      11. I forgot that the Gold will need a local shadow, so the 201/202 may be it.

4. Curiously, looking at Community Transit’s future network, the number of current and projected bus routes that use the brand new BAT lanes on 196th ST SW through Lynnwood is exactly zero. It’s almost as if they used BAT lanes as an excuse to use “transit” funds to widen the Stroad and then eventually open it to general car traffic? For now, I suppose the occasional Zip Alderwood shuttle could use it.

   1. CT’s original plan for Orange Line was to use 196th and just touch the Lynnwood Link station at the north end on the arterial. They changed plans to route thru the transit center bus loop to improve the transfer experience for riders in both directions.

      I would look for them to continue tinkering with the route structure in Lynnwood after Link opens.

   2. It looks like the 166 runs on a small part of the section of 196th that contains BAT lanes: https://www.communitytransit.org/route/166/table. A lot more buses go on nearby Alderwood Mall Boulevard. I don’t know if there are BAT lanes there or if they are planning on adding them. It definitely looks like they added BAT lanes on 196th as an excuse to widen the street.

      1. The BAT lanes on 196th stretch from 36th Ave to 48th Ave – the 166 runs on 196th between 36th and 44th. Lynnwood Transit Center stretches from 44th to 48th so no routes can really use that segment without bypassing the transit center unless they come back the way they came.

         It is a shame that access to / frequency on 196th is so poor despite it being one of Lynnwood’s retail centers.

      2. Yes, it is odd that they added BAT lanes on a section that is parallel to the station, and thus less likely to be used. I also think it is odd that there are no BAT lanes on 196th or 200th to the west of the station, despite its obvious value as the connection between the station and the college. I used to live between 196th and 200th there (in a condo that was being rented out as an apartment). I remember traffic being bad. I can’t imagine it has gotten better.

      3. That’s because their main purpose is really as really long right-turn lanes. It’s slightly okay as BAT lanes but it’s not like Seattle’s conversion of parking or a travel lane into a BAT lane.

      4. Unfortunately there’s not much cohesiveness on either 196th or 200th between Highway 99 + 48th Ave, despite both being popular retail clusters.

         A BAT lane on 196th between Highway 99 + 48th would benefit riders more arguably, with 8 buses per hour on that segment, combined between the 166 and Swift Orange.

         Though, a BAT lane on 164th would probably provide a larger benefit; there’s also more buses operating along various segments (112 and the future 121).

5. I’m disappointed to see CT keeping its $1.25 reduced fares while every other bus agency in the ORCA Pod has $1 reduced fares. As does Link, Sounder, and the streetcars.

   Also, why aren’t they joining the Subsidized Annual Pass program? It’s not as if they are running out of seats on any of their services.

   1. It’s a little confusing that there’s 3 unique reduced/no fare programs – ORCA LIFT, Subsidized Annual Pass, Reduced Regional Fare Permit, which all have different eligibility criteria, benefits/fares, and participating transit agencies.

      1. And then there are all the human service agency ticket programs, in which the agency pays the county a cut rate, and then gives the tickets out for free. This is the very expensive way to give out free rides.

         The beauty of the SAP is that the recipient only needs to go through the qualifying process once a year, instead of taking up staff time for each free ticket. It is actually saving taxpayers money.

         The Regional Reduced Fare Permit is specifically for people with a qualifying disability or age 65+, so not another income-based discount. It is the slickest way to handle the federal requirements for these fare discounts.

         Collectively, these three programs involve a lot less administrative overhead than the “free” ticket programs.

         There is also the state’s youth fare freedom program.

6. In other news, it sounds like the LV Monorail is operating on borrowed time. Partly due to Elan Musk, and partly due to cost:

   https://www.8newsnow.com/news/local-news/las-vegas-monorail-isnt-closing-counter-to-social-media-rumors/

   1. One day, Elon will realize that would be more efficient to use some sort of large van-type vehicle, with multiple rows of seats and walkable aisles – maybe even some standing room for crush loads. He’ll probably claim he invented this new form of transit, and call it something like a Bigger-Uber-Super loop.

      Then, once ridership is high enough and the B-U-S teslas are moving fast enough, he’ll realize that it might be more efficient to have a bunch of them moving in a platoon (which will inevitably be connected together to avoid crashes). Then he’ll have to start cutting costs to make the investors happy, and he’ll realize he’s spending a ton of money on rubber tires and roadway maintenance, and then he’ll want to use some new sort of material… maybe using some sort of iron-carbon alloy wheels on iron-carbon alloy rails. If only someone could invent this technology sooner…

      1. Then after that, he might apply for a government grant to make it cheaper for everyone to ride. And after that actually have local jurisdictions run them.

      2. Well, yes. He has to get Eureka and Sterling to bid against each other, including tax and utility breaks, for the honor of being a B.U.S. test city.

7. The YouTube series from Eastside Transit is starting to post Lynwood Link video shorts. The colors on the buildings remind me of 1990’s Legoland sets.

   1. @Jimmy James,

      Ha, you are right. Nice catch, although I only see one LLE video so far.

      It’s really happening, and we should see a lot more activity after April 15th when ST moves into full simulated service testing.

      Progress.

8. I had never noticed it before, but when Dow and Balducci and all the other dignitaries announced the opening date for ELSL, they did it by unveiling a countdown clock.

   https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dX8LGYsRj8c&pp=QAFIAg%3D%3D

   Apparently they thought it was a good idea.

   1. if you really really want it, you can always offer to volunteer and implement it on the website

   2. Why do you make them a deal? Why don”t you promise to write a Guest Post or Page 2 on the grand opening of the ELSL or LLE (you actually have to go out and ride it. You can’t report on it from your home), in exchange for them putting up a countdown clock?

      1. @Sam,

         The openings of ELSL and LLE are the biggest things to happen in local mass transit since the opening Northgate Link. These openings will be completely transformative, particularly with LLE.

         I assume this blog will cover these openings on Page 1 and not try to relegate them to Page 2.

         I doubt I’ll get an early ride on either extension, but I might just try.

      2. It’s surprising that someone who is as off the charts enthusiastic about LLE as you are sounds so apathetic about riding it the first week.

      3. @Sam,

         I meant a pre-revenue service early ride. Basically a ride before the line opens to the general public.

         I probably won’t ride ELSL until sometime in June. I am not too thrilled with having to drive over to the Eastside to get on it, and I’m going to be gone for the month of May anyhow. So I’ll probably just wait on ELSL until things calm down a bit.

         But I’ll be online.

      4. THE biggest thing will be full 2 Line activation. That’s the keystone that makes the whole thing a cohesive system. Until then, LLE will be stressed and ELSL will be a novelty.

      5. @another engineer,

         I agree fully about the importance of full ELE opening. That is going to be awesome because of the one seat ride to the Eastside, but particularly because it solves the capacity constraints on LLE and gives us 4-min frequency in the urban core.

         But full ELE is likely to be LR opening number 4 (after ELSL, LLE, and RLE). Contemplating 4 LR openings is probably too much for me.

         I’ll get excited about full ELE after LLE opens. It will be easier on my heart. And it will be nice to spread the good news out over a longer period of time.

      6. See, Sam is generously offering his Page 2 column slot for one week.

         There is a media event right now at South Bellevue station. I just got the notice this morning, but I’ll be going through there about an hour later to a birthday party. It was hard to get excited about touring an out-of-the-way P&R station and its artwork. Maybe some people will still be there when I go through on the 550.

      7. Lazarus, you will ride the LLE the first week, won’t you? If so, will you write about it and post something here? Light rail fans a fraction as enthusiastic as you will be there opening day, so I can’t imagine you won’t be there.

      8. @Sam,

         I will definitely ride LLE shortly after it opens, and I look forward to it. Will certainly post some comments here about my experience. As well about my in-laws reaction to finally getting LR near their home in North City. That is why the bought there.

         The next two years are going to bring a lot of change. It’s been a long time coming.

9. King county is looking into updating the previous rapidrides

   > RapidRide update on the expansion projects underway (G, J, I, R, and K Lines), and reinvestment studies (A, F, and E Line)

   Found a previous contract sent out
   “The purpose of this contract is to provide multidisciplinary engineering, planning, and related services to King County Metro Transit Department “County”) to identify and evaluate alternatives to provide reinvestment in the RapidRide A Line serving Tukwila, SeaTac, Des Moines, Kent, and Federal Way and the RapidRide F Line serving Renton, Tukwila, and Burien. The objective for reinvestment in both the A Line and F Line is to improve the customer experience by improving safety and security along each route and by upgrading existing passenger facilities, including upgrading stops to the new RapidRide shelters (Kit-of-Parts 2.0), and other improvements identified throughout this contract. The assessment of conditions for both routes will be similar, but deliverables for each line will be different and separate. Question Deadline 09/26/2023 at 5:00 PM PT As of September 6, 2023, the due date and time has been confirmed.”

   Maybe they could look into removing one of the f line’s detours while they are at it ? lol

   1. Metro announced a few months ago it would plan incremental improvements for the A line, starting with a study of what it needs. This must be it. I was a bit surprised at it, because why they planning to spend money on changes when they don’t know if it needs anything. I can’t think of anything the A needs.

      There is the BAR Station/Metro Connects concept of extending the A to Boeing Access Road station and Rainier Beach station, so that may be the impetus for this.Tukwila requested the BAR extension to serve a planned village at 144th.

   2. My reading of the above contract summary is that removing F-line detours (or any changes to stop locations) is out of scope, and all that’s in scope is physical changes to existing stops (e.g. better lighting, better shelters).

      Ultimately, the F-line is trying to do too much with one route; I suspect it does that because of service-hour constraints, that is, if the F-line didn’t do the detour, they would have to create a new peak-hour shuttle to serve those stops, with no money to pay for it without reducing the F-line to every 20 minutes instead of every 15. Also complicating things is that some of the detours stops whose primary use case is peak-only still have a little bit of off-peak riders. For example, even when there is no Sounder, somebody might still ride the F-line to the Sounder station in order to reach the nearby hotel or connect to/from an Amtrak train.

      My personal take is that the F-line’s detours suck up so much time that a straighter route that ran every 20 minutes would still be more useful than a detour route every 15, and that a peak-only overlay that serves the detour stops is good enough. But, Metro seems to think otherwise. (Really, though, RapidRide doesn’t make sense in Renton to begin with, and the only reason Renton has it to begin with is politics.)

10. btw does anyone know what happened/is happening to the king county “civic campus” idea? It’s been more than one year and I haven’t heard anything moving forward. Nor can I find anything after some brief googling.

    1. The Civic Campus idea was released at the same time as the N/S CID alternatives for DSTT2, so it seemed to me that the whole concept was somewhat contingent on being able to sell the County land to ST, who would demolish the County buildings with the apparently-infinite BLE budget to have laydown yards for station construction, and then sell or redevelop the properties with the dream of the Civic Campus in hand.

       I also think the shifting political winds have left the County unsure how to go about planning the replacement of the King County Jail before it gets the wrecking ball.

11. I don’t think? it’s been mentioned yet but fyi the renton transit center and TIBS station got some federal money.

    “On March 13, U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA), chair of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, announced that Sound Transit will receive $69,830,356 to build new transit centers in Renton and Tukwila that serve the Stride S1 Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) line.”

    https://www.rentonreporter.com/news/future-renton-tukwila-transit-centers-get-millions-in-federal-funding/

12. Update from ST today regarding today’s presentation regarding the SLU station feasibility study for Ballard Link Extension:

    … the date for presentation of the study findings to the Board has been postponed and the survey and webinar dates that we previously communicated will be postponed as well. We are currently establishing new dates for these public engagement opportunities, and we will share additional information as soon as it is available.

    1. That’s pretty surprising…, I wonder what machinations* are up. But actually probably means something large is happening. I wonder if the study is unfavorable to switching sites, or if the board is planning on changing the station site agin?

       * (Since tone is hard to convey online, I am being sarcastic)

13. Per Ryan Packer on Twitter – The Redmond Technology Station Pedestrian Bridge will open on Monday, April 22, ahead of the start of ELSL service.

    https://twitter.com/typewriteralley/status/1778523331236594003

    1. I believe that opening date news, but when I just went the city of Redmond’s website to see for myself, it wasn’t mentioned on their main webpage, or under any of their news categories, like Latest, News Releases, or Redmond In The News. And, their main webpage is a picture of the RTS Pedestrian Bridge! The City of Redmond also has a separate webpage for the pedestrian bridge itself. The opening date of April 22nd isn’t mentioned there, either. I also don’t believe the city’s website mentions that the RTS and OVS will open on April 27th.

       “Work from home” strikes again?

14. Among the TAG recommendations I saw released today, the betterment policy is the most important one to watch for. It will greatly influence whether many of Seattle’s expensive changes are approved — and perhaps force some much needed financial discipline so Sound Transit stops approving every city’s wishlist at great expense to avoid any construction impacts.

    Initial scope.
    * Employ standards and guidelines to define project scope consistently and equitably across the system so that projects meet operational needs and support passenger success

    Betterments (Addressing elements beyond scope and mitigation)
    * A project betterment is an element beyond the initial or baseline scope required to plan, build, and operate the regional transit system
    * Sound Transit requires a requesting party to pay for a project betterment
    * Sound Transit will make every effort to incorporate a project betterment but may decline to do so if it jeopardizes delivery of the baseline scope.
    * When a requesting party attempts to impose scope beyond the baseline scope through permit conditions or other mechanisms, project staff must initiate a dispute resolution process.

    https://www.soundtransit.org/st_sharepoint/download/sites/PRDA/ActiveDocuments/Presentation%20-%20Betterments%20and%20Scope%20Control%20Policy%20Update%2004-11-24.pdf

    Though there are some large open questions of what exactly is a betterment. Also a bit unsure if the board will actually vote for it. I could see Seattle and maybe the King county executive actually trying to refuse this idea.

    1. Is the baseline scope the representative alignment in 2016, or the current preferred alignment with CID/N and CID/S and deep stations? Would it preclude the possibility of single-tunnel because it wasn’t in the previous plans? Limiting the possibility of changes cuts both ways.

       The committee had the same recommendation last year, and I had the same reservation about it.

       1. > Would it preclude the possibility of single-tunnel because it wasn’t in the previous plans? Limiting the possibility of changes cuts both ways.

          It’s main concern is about cost control. Changes that lead to less cost isn’t really a major concern of the betterment policy.

          I guess one example could be the mercer island parking garage given. Or say the change of ballard from a high drawbridge to a tunnel would probably count as a ‘betterment’?

          > Is the baseline scope the representative alignment in 2016?

          There seems to be 2 different phrases used “initial scope” and then “baseline scope”:
          “Initial scope as defined in a voter-approved system plan.” and then after environment review “Project to be built decision that incorporates required mitigation measures identified during required environmental review.” becomes the baseline “Project baseline decision formally establishes scope, schedule, and budget for capital projects.”

          I am not quite sure where the line is drawn though. For instance in the above example is the ballard change from high drawbridge to a tunnel actually considered an environment concern? Or for west seattle from elevated to trenched.

       2. There are some examples of smaller betterments $340,000 https://www.soundtransit.org/st_sharepoint/download/sites/PRDA/ActiveDocuments/Motion%20M2020-35.pdf

          > This betterment agreement includes three King County requested changes to the East Link Extension that will be performed by Sound Transit under the construction contract for the Downtown Bellevue to Spring District Segment (E335) as part of the East Link Extension.
          > King County is constructing a pedestrian bridge over NE 8th Street as part of its Eastrail project to provide safe and convenient access to cross NE 8th Street. The final design of that project is occurring during East Link construction.

          But I think this policy change is about much more drastic betterments.

       3. (Sorry for multiple posts)

          Looking online here’s the best descriptions about betterments i can find (that actually refers to station alignments) https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/be-bolder-to-get-light-rail-done-expert-panel-tells-sound-transit/

          > She raised a more profound question regarding Ballard, where Sound Transit proposed a stop at 14th Avenue Northwest, but Seattle prefers 15th Avenue Northwest, which is closer to the retail district and apartments. Crunican said she’d consider that a “betterment” in which the city should chip in the $200 million difference. (A newly charted version, involving street right of way, would trim the increase to $70 million.)

          > Seattle Mayor Bruce Harrell aired some hesitation Thursday morning about cracking down on “betterments,” noting Seattle is far bigger than neighboring cities with intense competition for downtown space.

       4. “She raised a more profound question regarding Ballard, where Sound Transit proposed a stop at 14th Avenue Northwest, but Seattle prefers 15th Avenue Northwest, which is closer to the retail district and apartments. Crunican said she’d consider that a “betterment” in which the city should chip in the $200 million difference.”

          15th was the representative alignment in the ballot measure. It’s not an extra above and beyond that.

       5. > 15th was the representative alignment in the ballot measure. It’s not an extra above and beyond that.

          The very original alignment was elevated above ground. Basically any ask that adds a large amount of money would be a betterment

    2. I hate the use of the word “betterment”. Every project change can make things better or worse for ridership. This implies that the extra capital cost is somehow a quality of travel issue versus capital cost only.

       Bad transfers and bad connectivity suppress ridership. That cuts into farebox revenue. Thus it can be worthwhile to spend the extra money to enhance connectivity at a station.

       And we still have NEVER been told how last year’s CID-N switcharoo stunt will reduce ridership and farebox revenue for 100 years.

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