The big restructure continues in its fourth day. We still want to hear how Link ridership is doing in the morning and afternoon peaks, how much crowding there is. How are the dozens of restructured bus routes in Snohomish and King Counties doing? How is Lynnwood City Center station holding up re crowding? Is Northgate station emptier? And any updates on RapidRide G.

Don’t miss the highway 520 article just before this one.

This is an open thread.

63 Replies to “First Week, Part 2”

  1. Amazon asked its workers to come into the office 5 days a week starting in January. (Did the Mayor threaten the tax breaks again?) Presumably, other Seattle businesses will follow suit. IIRC, Amazon has its own shuttles, but more cars on the road for businesses that don’t provide shuttle

    Any speculation as to when bus service will be restored to pre-pandemic levels (for the Ballard folks, the 15X, 17X, 18X rides again?)

    1. I was surprised Amazon went to 5 days a week. I had heard that they were going to tighten up on WFH, but I expected them to go to 4 days per week first.

      It should be noted that this will add even more crowding to the 1-Line during the period before Full ELE comes on line. Thank gawd for gap trains.

    2. 15X, 17X, 18X will return when the D line and the 40 start skipping stops again due to lack of capacity.

      With RTO easily skirted by tagging into the office, grabbing some snacks, then going back home, it’s not like the full peak crush is going to return.

      1. @Mike Orr,

        “Amazon’s 5-day mandate starts January 2nd.”

        Exactly, and therein lies the problem.

        Amazon adding a bunch more riders to the system on January 2nd means the 1-Line will need to function for about a year with higher demand and less capacity.

        Hopefully ST can handle it.

      2. OK. My point is that the 15X, 17X, 18X don’t need to be added immediately today if they weren’t needed last week. Metro has over three months to prepare.

      3. “OK. My point is that the 15X, 17X, 18X don’t need to be added immediately today if they weren’t needed last week. Metro has over three months to prepare.”

        IIRC, service changes happen twice a year–the express buses will return by March 2025 at the earliest.

    4. I imagine the conversation between the Mayor Harrell and Andy Jassy would be quick, and go something like this …

      Mayor: I’d like to talk to you about your company’s hybrid work policy.
      Jassy: What is the hybrid work policy for City of Seattle employees?
      Mayor: On second thought, never mind.

    6. Everyone on this blog better dial in quickly to wsdot’s plans to rebuild I-5 between Yesler and Northgate starting next year. We’re about to see a whole lot of pissed off people. And until the 2 Line opens for real, the 1 Line won’t be able to handle the load it’s about to get hit with. Sustained closures of two lanes. Traffic hell and a lot of stuck buses.

      https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/search-projects/i-5-yesler-way-northgate-vic-pavement-deck-joints-and-drainage

      2. Any idea when the road work picks up in earnest? The project webpage has the status as pre-construction, and the rainy season is upon us, so perhaps we’re talking next spring?

      3. https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/search-projects/revive-i-5-preserving-vital-freeway

        There are three major projects. What I find interesting is how low the cost is compared to Link or RR G ($37.6 million, $29.3 million, $203 million).

        The mobility improvements on NB I-5 between Seneca to SR 520 should help considerably in reducing congestion from bottlenecks. I-5 north and southbound through Seattle could easily have 25% more capacity if the design were better (no left side entrances, no left side exits, no convention center narrowing).

      4. @another engineer,

        I’d rather face these I-5 issues with an operating 1-Line all the way to Lynnwood. As opposed to facing the same traffic nightmare without LLE and having all those buses from SnoCo just sitting there in traffic like so many rats stuck in the same glue trap. Just saying….

        Hopefully WSDOT will be a bit slow to get to the main closure phase, while hopefully ST will also be a bit quicker to get at least non-revenue access across I-90 for LRV storage purposes.

        Because even small tweaks in frequency or capacity will bear huge dividends for the traveling public during this phase.

        And if ST can’t do that, then maybe it is time to revisit the possibility of running a scheduled overlay during peak commute periods. ST will have operational experience by then with LLE, so maybe their ops staff will be a bit more comfortable with the overlay concept.

        Time will tell. But at least we will be better off with an operating LLE.

      5. @lazarus sure we’re better off with 1 line than without. But if your observations are any indication, the system won’t be able to handle the demand shift that will come when I-5 locks up for most of the day. The buses will get stranded. There will be overflow traffic to 99 and 405. I predict Tokyo-level loading in the DSTT during the evening and very crowded platforms. Probably full trains hitting Shoreline in the mornings. The difference between 4-minute and 8-minute light rail headways will be obvious.

      6. This is the mainline, between downtown and Northgate. We haven’t had buses running there in a really long time. The express buses run peak-only, which means they run in the express lanes. Even then there are only a handful of buses left. ST is still running the 510 as well as the new 515. Metro is running the 303 and 322. That’s it. But again, they aren’t effected, since they run in the express lanes.

        The only bus I can think of that could be effected is the 586. It runs from Tacoma to the UW, peak-only. This means it is running on the mainline the whole way. This bus should have been cancelled a lot time ago. I have no idea why ST continues running it.

        As far as Link is concerned, it is unlikely to matter. Traffic doesn’t effect transit much, and vice versa. It is highly unlikely they will have a closure during peak. They will probably close at night (after peak) and parts of midday. It is possible that Link will increase frequency midday or night (wouldn’t that be nice).

      7. @another engineer,

        Oh, it will be a mess. No doubt about it. But I know that stretch of road well, and when I-5 sets up like concrete then all the alternates won’t be far behind. It will be a disaster.

        But Link will still be the best option. It will get absolutely hammered. But it will still be faster than the other modes. Even if you have to get too friendly with some stranger.

        That said, hopefully we get lucky. And if not, then It is probably time to get creative and do something like the overlay.

        But if those ideas don’t work either, then just grin and bear it. What other option will we have?

  2. OneBusAway shows three G-line buses bunched up on Spring between 4th and 8th. There’re three more buses headed westbound on Madison. That’s all.

    This’s a comedy. It’s time to delete the G and revert the Capitol Hill restructure.

    1. Will this rank up there with “so frequent we don’t even need a schedule” on the original Rapid Ride?

      1. @Brandon,

        Frequent for a short while only. LOL.

        It will be interesting to see some real operational data on RRG. I expect Metro to get the missed trips thing under control pretty quickly, but headway management seems to be a real issue.

        And so far we’ve only had one rainy day during RRG operation. If the traction issues really are real, then things will probably melt down again once the rains begin.

  3. I intend to try out the 255 on the new Montlake bus ramp this evening. Will report on how it goes. My biggest question mark is how the traffic signal is timed to turn right from the lid into Montlake. How long will the wait be for a green light, will multiple buses be able to get through on one cycle, and will backups from the red light at the general purpose ramp just up ahead prevent the bus from making its turn. I guess we shall see.

    1. Hopefully your bus driver knows the HOV ramps are now open. I’ve been on several 520 bus runs since it opened and the bus driver still used the general ramps and got the bus stuck in the automobile congestion. One would have thought there would be announcements to operators.

    2. My bus driver knew, and the new ramp worked great. The problem was that Link was broken down after I got off the bus, and I ended up bailing and riding KCM buses instead.

  5. I’m sitting on a northbound train at Capitol Hill, for “an extended delay”.

    A broken-down train, previously alerted as a “power issue”, is forcing single-tracking between UW and Northgate.

    Headway is expected to be 15-20 minutes.

    How does that compare to the current headway on the G Line?

    1. I got caught by this going SB. My commute with this delay was still faster than what was typical for my previous 512 + 1 Line commute. Eliminating that transfer penalty has been huge!

      1. @Brandon,

        Congrats. Eliminating the transfer penalty has indeed been huge for lots of riders traveling up and down the line.

        Glad to hear the new extension is working out for you and that you are happy with it.

    2. The single-tracking will continue through the end of service tonight.

      I just heard that the stalled train is on the northbound track, close to UW Station.

      2. @Nathan Dickey,

        Oh man, I’ve always wanted to have the opportunity to walk the tunnels! That would have been absolutely awesome.

        That said, one of the commentators mentioned sparks from overhead. That definitely sounds like a power related issue, although it should be noted that often mechanical issues with the pantograph or catenary quickly become “power issues”. After all, that is what the system does.

      3. Is there a realistic situation in which a Link train can get stuck between stations that isn’t a power issue?

      4. @Nathan Dickey,

        Yes, it is possible to have mechanical issues with the trucks and braking systems and such, and derailments are also possible.

        Control system issues are also possible.

      5. There seem to be a lot of power issues between UW and Northgate. Also going NB from Roosevelt to Northgate there are a few places where the pans arc repeatedly hitting some damaged or kinked spot on the wire (can be seen and heard from the middle section of the LRVs). I wonder if these two things are related? Can’t be good either for the pans, the OHW, or equipment in the DC substations?

    3. I saw three bunched northbound trains at 10:20 at Westlake. They were at 9, 11, and 16 minutes at 10:20am at Westlake. The first train was busy but not packed. I took the second train for more social distancing.

      The southbound trains had the same issue: two passed in the initial 9 minutes, and a third one was about to come when I boarded.

      I assume there had been some “mechanical issue” or other issue that had stopped the trains and was just recovering.

      And then the 62 I got on had its everyday delays and bunching. I was again lucky as they came in 9, 11 minutes. Sometimes I have to wait 20 or 25 minutes for a nominally 15-minute route.

      That reminded me that half the G’s reliability is common to other routes, including the (pre-restructure) 10, 11, 49, 62, 131, and 132. The egregious thing about the G’s unreliability is that it’s happening on a RapidRide line.

    4. “The single-tracking will continue through the end of service tonight.”

      The beatings will continue until morale improves.

    5. Got on a northbound 1 line train at CID, about 1:45pm, and there were no announcements in the station. The train paused for some time there; to his credit the driver has been continually mentioning the delay (albeit still as a “power outage”). Currently in Westlake station some 20 min after leaving CID. They are not giving any other information such as length of delay, alternates, or anything else; the information signs in the stations are also not providing information save the next train info – which of course just gets pushed back. Very reminiscent of trying to get accurate info about airline delays….

      1. Slow running between Capitol Hill and UW, NB train crossing over to SB track just south of UW station. (2:33pm)

        Out of order train is at UW station platform on NB side. Trains alternating using SB tracks up to crossover S of Northgate station.

        Platform signage at U District and Roosevelt still showing trains arriving on NB track, which of course is inaccurate. Am assuming ST staff is on hand to assist people as they are all waiting on the correct (SB) side. Arrived NG at 2:41p.

  6. The urbanist has an article about South Renton / Grady upzoning
    https://www.theurbanist.org/2024/09/17/renton-seeks-to-create-a-new-urban-neighborhood-around-planned-transit/

    While looking into it, I found the subarea Developer Forum Summary Notes.

    There’s actually quite some interesting stuff about parking/ zoning / retail. Interestingly since Renton wanted to maintain relatively high parking requirements, the developers asked if the height of parking podium would be separate. Also the developers were asking for less parking requirements in general.

    Fun to see how they were planning on marketing it as well “Central location where you can live in Renton and work in Seattle, while your partner can work in Bellevue.”

    Retail
    * Renton wants to place high commercial requirements, but then
    * developers say: Retail market is constantly evolving; not currently seeing a high demand for retail space

    Height
    * “Cost of land and rental rates in Renton market are not high enough to justify vertical development of significant height.”
    * “Exclude parking structure from height requirements, or when measuring height, measure podium parking separately from the residential floors. ”
    * There is a high water table in the area, which makes underground structures challenging => aka underground parking hard to build here

    Apartments
    * talked about how condomiums are still hard due to state wide laws “There used to be more condominium projects,
    but then a whole business associated with condo class action lawsuits emerged” and “Market has more to do with it than zoning.”
    * impact fees, some moderate amount is acceptable but warned that since it’s brt and not light rail, the market incentive is not as large

    https://cdnsm5-hosted.civiclive.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server_7922657/File/City%20Hall/CED/Long%20Range%20Planning/TOD/Update_060121/RainierGrady_DevForum_SummaryNotes%20FINAL.pdf

    1. I might get pushback for this but I don’t really care. A large Tod should not be built at this location. I’m not in any way opposed to Tods. Just not every place is great for them. A junction of two major freeways is literally not healthy. I could understand the argument if it wasn’t that far but that doesn’t work when it’s literally immediately adjacent to it. A BRT station is of relatively limited utility for being an incentive for locating a major development and this particular BRT proposal has a huge number of problems discussed in previous articles. For example, taking BRT to Tukwila INTL blvd and then transfering to Link in daily usage would probably not save a single minute of time in comparison to an express bus going directly from Renton to downtown Seattle. This particular location is utterly lacking in surrounding urban amenities or desirable spaces unless you count strip malls and dated old office structures. The freeway is the herd of elephants in the room. It would also mean that the downtown Renton area would have no fewer than THREE strangely disconnected downtowns. This is just not good. Tods should be developed further and more intensively in Old Downtown Renton, the Landing, the Tukwila Sounder station, Kent Des Moines Station, Federal Way station and Tukwila Intl Blvd. Not here.

      1. Sure, let’s have Sound Transit send more light rail to Lake Stevens and Monroe instead before Renton gets BRT. Renton is such a terrible location who should get nothing for what they paid for. It’s too close to the airport, too many people pass through it, and it’s too close to many major cities in the state. Renton is not allowed to develop their city because only my city should develop and their city isn’t good enough for it.

      2. We already have a bus route from Renton to Seattle that people may rather take. But the light rail is a separate thing so why shouldn’t BRT be an option??

      3. Link does not serve Renton! TIB is too far west, and Rainier Beach is too far away. When the article says one spouse can work in Bellevue and the other in Seattle, the second one would take the 101.

    2. A lot of other multistory apartments are built along freeways and highways, like Ash Way P&R, 7th Ave NE in the western U-District, and all along the Bothell-Everett Highway. It would hardly be unusual here. And copping out at 1-2 stories just generates sprawl, like the acres of big box stores in the western half of downtown Renton and in The Landing (The Landing!).

      1. Let’s put it this way. Developing a TOD at Tukwila sounder station down one exit on 405 achieves the goals of housing a large number of people without the laundry list of drawbacks with the south Renton site. It’s got loads of space (and can accommodate extensive green space), it doesn’t displace many businesses or come with high demolition costs, its not right next to a freeway, there’s already a rail station there and there is also already a rapidride line at that location. I can’t think of any downsides.

    3. “Cost of land and rental rates in Renton market are not high enough to justify vertical development of significant height.”

      The standard proposed zoning is 70′ (7 stories). That’s a respectable level for Renton: it’s the same as Broadway and Bellevue Ave. The debate is whether it could go up to 150′ (15 stories, or midrise). It would be impressive if Renton does that somewhere, but it’s not necessary. 7 stories can house enough people if it’s over a large enough area. The problem is 1-2 story buildings.

      “step-backs for the upper floors… these step-backs are intended to create a “pedestrian scaled-environment” and allow “better air circulation”

      The primary purpose of step-backs is to allow sunlight to reach the sidewalk without big shadows. That’s an important thing.

  7. If anyone wants to hear what’s going on with Link right now from a Link radio channel perspective, here is the ST Link scanner channel, where you will hear the Control Center talking operators, security, supervisors, etc. Most of it boring chatter (a security person saying they are going on or off break), but sometimes it’s something interesting, or hear what’s actually going on.

    https://openmhz.com/system/psern025?filter-type=talkgroup&filter-code=1497,1499,3779,3771,3769,3777,1503,3753,3754,3755,3756,3757,3759,3760,3761,3762,3763,3765,3767

    1. ST scanner says “3 of the 4 disabled cars have bad pantographs.” The south car is good, and can tow one of the bad cars, but they’ll need one, or possibly two drivers and train cars to tow the two other train cars. They didn’t make it clear how they were going to get those disabled cars out. Sounds like a mess.

      They also said a few minutes ago that the southbound train leaving Northgate was “99% full.”

      1. They towed one of the bad cars out with the good car, and as of right now a two car empty train is pulling up to the two dead cars.

    2. It’s harder to run a transit service every day than to spend hundreds of millions chasing pretty diagrams and drawings.

      Welcome to adulthood, ST Link. You now get to deal with what most every other urban rail system does on a daily basis — operations problems and overcrowding and station vertical device failures.

  8. Tuesday afternoon report, Link and RapidRide G.

    LINK FROM ROOSEVELT TO SYMPHONY:

    4:32 I arrive at the Roosevelt platform. It’s single-tracked; announcements say all trains are on the Angle Lake track. Two northbound trains come. Some cars are packed; others have a few standing spaces, but a significant number of people get off. The next-arrival displays are off.

    My train comes in 15 minutes at 4:47. I get the last seat in back, it becomes standing room only.

    At UW it becomes packed. At this and all following stations, the driver asks multiple times for people to let the doors close, and that another train is coming in 3 minutes. So it appears that trains are running two at a time in both directions.

    At Capitol Hill I see a Lynnwood train on the northbound platform. It departs.

    5:07 I get off at Symphony.

    TRAVEL TIME: 20 minutes (expected 12).

    —

    RAPIDRIDE G FROM 3RD & MADISON TO MLK:

    5:12 I arrive at 3rd &Madison. I just miss a G. The next-arrival display says 4, 10 minutes. One Bus Away (OBA) agrees. As I walked past Spring Street I saw a car in the bus lane just after the turn: it was waiting to get into the traffic queue in the next lane.

    At the 5-minute mark (of waiting) the display said 7, 8 minutes. It’s hard to stand on the steep hillside with a heavy backpack; I lean against a shelter rail. A car stops in the bus stop waiting to get into the queue in the next lane; then another car does it.

    At the 10-minute mark the display says 3, 4. OBA agrees, saying 3, 4, 14, and adds “1 min late, 3 min late, on time”. A person with a two packs is walking uphill in the bus lane on the next block.

    At the 15-minute mark the bus arrives.

    5:31 I board. It was standing room only, but several people get off and then there are seats available. It’s hard to walk in the bus and get into a seat with a heavy backpack on the steep hill. Three cars are turning right on front of the bus: the last one gets caught by the light so we miss it.

    At 1st, 1 person gets off and 12 get on. The bus turns wide, taking all the lanes and the edge of the sidewalk. A car is partly in the bus lane after the turn, trying to get in the queue in the next lane; it moves immediately.

    The bus crawls slowly up the hill, but there’s no fishtailing or slipping, although the street is dry. We miss the light at 2nd.

    Around 8 people get on at every stop between 1st and 12th,

    We miss the light at 7th. At 8th a right-turning car is in the lane; we wait until the avenue moves and the car turns into it, but we make the light.

    At Terry I think I hear an announcement, “Exit front doors only”. I think I hear it again at another stop, but at a third stop I hear clearly, “Exit left doors only”, so that may have been what they all were. I wouldn’t want to be in back and find out I’d have to exit front and push past all the standees.

    At 15th a turning car was blocking the lane. At 17th several people got off; now there were standing spaces. At 19th the right lane was closed. At 27th the congestion disappeared. I got off at MLK.

    TRAVEL TIME: 29 minutes (expected 10-13).

    —

    RAPIDRIDE G FROM MLK TO BOYLESTON:

    6:02 I arrive at the MLK stop. The display says 6 minutes. OBA says 11 minutes. A bus comes immediately so I don’t have to wait. The onboard ORCA readers are out of service. I’d tapped outside, but two people tried to tap but couldn’t.

    At 23rd another turning car is in the lane. Seats are still available.

    At 17th one person gets on and has a discussion with the driver; the bus remains stopped during it. I can’t hear whether it’s about directions or fares.

    At 14th there’s semi-heavy braking before and after, so I had to lean to stay in the seat.

    At 12th a car was partly in the lane, trying to get into a traffic queue in the next lane.

    At Boyleston I got off. The display said the next bus would come in 2 minutes.

    TRAVEL TIME: 13 minutes (expected 6-7)

    1. Very interesting. During the rides, were you able to get a sense of what might be contributing to frequent bus bunching?

      1. All of these.

        When a bus run takes twice as long as scheduled, or 10 minutes longer, the buses can’t help but bunch.

      2. I looked for one thing that was mostly to blame, but it seems like a thousand tiny cuts adding up. The biggest may be cars turning, or illegally in the lane, or partly in the lane trying to get into a full lane of traffic in the next lane. Even if the car moves immediately, the bus has to slow down until it does. Downtown crawling feels like a typical 12, 2, 3, or 4, not the robust pep we expected.

    2. I was at UW station just before 6 PM today. The northbound track was blocked by a disabled train. Rather than wait for @ northbound train on the southbound track (which I knew would be awhile since a southbound train arrived immediately), I decided to bail and hop on a bus, since I wasn’t going that far. Since I needed to go both north and west to get to my ultimate destination, that bus ended up being the 44.

      On the way back, I took the 45 to the 255, rather than Link, as I usually do, as I did not want to take a chance on Link still being messed up when I had a bus to catch that ran only every 30 minutes. The bus-only option was uneventful.

  9. I had a circuitous ride on Metro route 60. The driver made a surprise right turn that at first I thought was for a detour. But no such Alert was to be found.

    After a few blocks getting way off route, the driver got on the phone with a supervisor, and got some bad advice on how to recover. Instead of just turning around and going back, we kept going and stuck behind the 1st Ave Bridge opening, opening, and eventually closing, and closing. I think the architect of that bridge — which can only open or close one side at a time — invented “value engineering”.

    It ended up being about 40 minutes by the time the bus circled back to South Park. The driver stopped the bus, and said another one was coming behind him. He did not give a reason for the switch, but he offered every passenger an uncut paper day pass.

    Inadequate training was the clear cause of this adventure. Much as we might assume the problems on the 1 Line and the RR G may be specific to those routes, some of them may be the result of less “qualification” training for drivers on new routes. This Pick change had a lot of drivers on routes new to them.

    1. I was down at the MLK-end of the G Line both Saturday and then again Wednesday afternoon. Supervisors present in both cases – two of them, actually, yesterday. Also rode the line on Saturday. It definitely appeared there was a lot of “how does this work” going on.

      1. Did it seem like they were trying to manage headway? Not let one bus leave the terminal right after another bus, even if it was scheduled to depart?

  10. Rhe scanner link is interesting but it mostly sounds like barely controlled chaos to the untrained ear.

  11. Northbound tail of the 65 to 148th St Station is getting much more use now. Before I’d be the only person on the bus between LCW and the end on 145th. Now, a couple of users each stop on 145th until the station. Station itself is collecting 4-5 route 65 riders every time I’m there. What a difference 10 blocks makes.

  12. I had a pleasant afternoon exploring the Lynnwood extension. I never was excited about the routing along I-5 but it is what it it and I am impressed with the development around the Mountlake Station. This is the starter of a real urban center. And now I writing this from a pub in a Northgate Urban Center. I gotta call this a success! It’s wonderful and beyond my dreams of a Seattle area transit system that I would have theorized decades ago!

    The trains were full of happy folks heading out on a truly civilized form of transport. The whole region should take a moment and reflect on a truly big step in the right direction. A BIG STEP!

Comments are closed.