Holiday Hours

21 Replies to “Holiday Hours”

1. https://www.natesilver.net/p/nobody-goes-to-new-york-city-anymore

   “On Thursday, December 12, there were 4,527,607 million rides recorded in the New York City subway system, setting a new daily high since the COVID-19 pandemic. In addition, there were 1.4 million rides on buses, 269,000 on the LIRR (which connects Long Island to Manhattan) and 236,000 thousand on Metro-North (connecting the northern suburbs with the city).”

   Yes, you can serve your population largely using rail and a much smaller fraction of buses… with decent density and if you design your rail right.

   1. Their commuter rail has rebounded quite nicely. Because it’s not just peak, stupid.

   2. Yes, you can serve your population largely using rail and a much smaller fraction of buses… with decent density and if you design your rail right.

      I don’t think building the New York City Subway system (with its 423 unique stations) is realistic for most cities though. Very few American cities — even ones with excellent rail systems — have a really high proportion of rail ridership. For example, Chicago is basically 50-50, despite the outstanding “L”. You are pretty much looking at Boston, DC and New York as cities with more rail riders than bus riders. In the case of the first two you can make the case that the problem is an inadequate bus system, not a fantastic rail system.

      I think the Vancouver model is by far the best. There are several aspects of this that stand out:

      1) It was built fairly recently.
      2) The city sprawls (like most cities in the US and Canada).
      3) The buses and trains work together really well.
      4) The buses carry huge numbers of people.
      5) The trains carry huge numbers of people.

      Consider the daily ridership numbers (rail, buses):

      Vancouver: 450K, 800K
      Washington DC: 450K, 393K
      Chicago: 416K, 577K
      Boston: 370K, 322K
      Portland: 77K, 126K
      Dallas: 63K, 94K

      For the most part commuter rail doesn’t matter. For example a lot of people ride the LIRR. But it is tiny compared to the number that ride the buses or the subway. There are exceptions. Metra (serving the Chicago area) carries enough riders (170K) to tip the balance towards rail. But if you count the suburban bus service (Pace) then buses barely edge out the trains. Boston commuter rail is also exception — carrying 109K.

      Getting back to Vancouver. What is striking is just how big those ridership numbers are (not the proportion). Some of those cities are much bigger and/or have way more people living in high density areas. Vancouver transit is doing extremely for its size.

      1. “For the most part commuter rail doesn’t matter.”

         A commuter rail system that is pulling 5 times the ridership of our entire light rail system, for a metro area only 5 times the population and 3 times the area of the Seattle metro area? I think you are confused.

      2. Several of Chicago Metra’s highest ridership lines have ROW that is fully owned by Metra, which allows them to run all day service for minimal capital cost (relative to peak oriented service), which makes the distinction between “commuter” rail and “regional” rail nebulous.

         Aside from the lines that are privately owned, for awhile now there has been discussion about running Metra at high frequency all day and lowering the fares to match the CTA, in effect treating those Metra lines as part of the urban transit network alongside CTA rail & CTA buses. Oddly, the largest roadblock to this change has been CTA leadership, which fears riders switching to Metra when the superior* Metra service becomes cost equivalent to a CTA service. (*superior for many ‘longer’ trips within Chicagoland, in particular getting in/out of downtown; obviously most riders are already choosing the mode that is faster/convenient for them)

      3. BNSF still owns and operates some of those lines, including providing Metra service under contract. The difference is the infrastructure needed to deal with both freight and passenger trains at the same time has been there for a long time.

      4. Looking at total boardings is one way to look at it. However, places like Boston and Chicago have been set up so that buses are used for short trips and rail for longer ones.

         The data might look different if it was rider miles rather than merely boardings. In an ideal setup, the long distance trips would be on rail systems separated from traffic carrying dozens if not hundreds per train quickly. Buses would be the backup.

         But the bigger point is that most cities need a robust bus system to make a rail system productive. There are districts in major cities where the rail system so extensively covers a city that the buses become less important, like in parts of Manhattan or Paris. Boston has very few buses running through it with most labeled as the Silver Line, with most riders forced onto a train instead.

         Seattle will always have more bus boardings than rail boardings. Our terrain is too steep and our buildout is mostly set. That — coupled with a very long term dedicated project (ST3) with many more miles and stations being built outside of the City limits — will tie Seattle’s hands for at least a few decades.

         A final point is that no matter what, the transfer environment is of utmost importance! The station layouts for West Seattle and Ballard both are often terrible for bus-rail transfers as it is for rail-rail transfers.

      5. I think we really need to make a push to improve our infrastructure similarly.

         We will need the improvements anyway, if we choose the “Higher Speed Rail (110-125)” for Amtrak, rather than true HSR, which we should.

         It is clearly that Sounder South is the best, perhaps only, way we provide service to the Kent Valley and beyond at speeds that are competitive with driving. hour+ “express” buses aren’t cutting it, and there isn’t a viable way to make them substantially faster. That area is going to be pushing a million people in the coming years, essentially unserved by viable transit, with no plan to do so.

      6. Several of Chicago Metra’s highest ridership lines have ROW that is fully owned by Metra, which allows them to run all day service for minimal capital cost (relative to peak oriented service), which makes the distinction between “commuter” rail and “regional” rail nebulous.

         Aside from the lines that are privately owned, for awhile now there has been discussion about running Metra at high frequency all day and lowering the fares to match the CTA, in effect treating those Metra lines as part of the urban transit network alongside CTA rail & CTA buses. Oddly, the largest roadblock to this change has been CTA leadership, which fears riders switching to Metra when the superior* Metra service becomes cost equivalent to a CTA service. (*superior for many ‘longer’ trips within Chicagoland, in particular getting in/out of downtown; obviously most riders are already choosing the mode that is faster/convenient for them)

      7. (sorry for the double post)

2. For what it’s worth today, the Link train I was on between Capitol Hill Station and Roosevelt Station had people standing on it. Way more crowded than I was expecting for Christmas Eve.

   1. I did my east Bellevue trip today. The 545 eastbound at noon was surprisingly busy. I don’t know what it’s normally like besides the pre-covid commute to Microsoft, but I can’t imagine many people are going to Evergreen Point, Yarrow Point, or 156th outside that. Yet almost every double seat on the articulated bus was occupied, which is three times more than the 550 gets midday. And 4-6 people did get on/off at those three stops.

      A bicyclist got off at one of the Points. At Yarrow Point, three people got on who all asked for a free ride. The third was a woman who looked a little unkempt with a bag, which triggered my homeless radar. Is there a homeless shelter in Yarrow Point or Hunts Point? It sounds impossible. Yet there were the three people. Why would they go to downtown Redmond?

      I got off at Redmond Tech with a handful of people. Most of the passengers continued to downtown Redmond.

      I transferred to a 245 southbound, which came immediately. There was only one other person on the bus in the Redmond Tech area, but in Crossroads a dozen or two people got on at the several stops. I got off at Main Street, and most people continued south.

      Coming back at 3:30pm, the pattern on the 245 was somewhat reversed although fuller. I wanted to go to downtown Redmond to see the Marymoor Village station, but I wouldn’t have time before it got dark, so I transferred at Redmond Tech to Link to come back to Seattle.

      My Link car had one other person on it, and only got a few more to Bellevue Downtown. There a group of six people got on, some kind of family unit or relatives it looked like. There’s only two more stations to the South Bellevue terminus, and they aren’t very populated areas, so it was a little odd somebody would take Link for that short distance, unless they’re transferring to Seattle. But even then, they could take the same 550 at Bellevue TC as they could take at South Bellevue. When we got to South Bellevue and everybody had to get off, some of the kids seemed a little surprised it didn’t go further.

      I transferred to the 550, and again most of the double seats were occupied. I suppose that’s typical for the PM peak, but it’s more than I usually encounter, except at some Sunday ballgames when it’s standing room only.

      The whole experience reminded me of a day in the early 80s, when I rode from Kirkland to the U-District. It was Memorial Day, and I was the only person on the 255. Downtown I transferred to a 71/72/73X, and it was standing room only. That was how I felt on the 545 to 245. Busy going to/from Seattle, light on 156th.

      1. Thanks for the report!

         When I’ve seen people getting on southbound at Downtown Bellevue, I usually suspect they’re either staying in the hotels near East Main or (more likely) parked at South Bellevue. Though, surprised kids does make me wonder.

      2. I would be surprised if Yarrow Point doesn’t have a homeless camp. Pretty much anywhere like that which has dense vegetation and is difficult for authorities to enter has at least a few tents hidden behind everything.

      3. But the Points are all the richest houses, and they’re house-only microtowns. It’s hard to think they would stand for a homeless encampment next door.

      4. The point of hiding an encampment in such a place is to not be seen by anyone.

         Mercer Island is high income too with almost no admission by its residents they also have a homeless population. Yet, a survey by the city found somewhere around 30 people crammed into various hidden thickets.

         The San Juan Islands are Washington’s wealthiest county, and except for maybe two people that panhandle in Friday Harbor you’d never know that there are a fair number of homeless hidden away in various places.

         The loud, obvious homeless are really only a small portion. A large number never get seen.

      5. At some point, the homeless people will have to leave their tents to access grocery stores or other food sources. When they do this repeatedly, they will beat down a path. Eventually, somebody out for a walk will discover the path and follow it to see where it leads. When they find the tents, they will call the police, and in a place like Yarrow Point, the tents will be cleaned up very promptly.

         There’s only so long they can last before being discovered, at least if they want to not starve to death.

      6. You’d think this would happen.

         In reality, even in Friday Harbor, it rarely does. They do a very good job of hiding, in most cases.

   2. Went to UW basketball game last night and after the game when the NB train arrived from Capitol Hill Station it was SRO and this was at 9:15pm.

3. a little off topic. Why don’t we have drains on freeways like 405 to get rid of the standing water and oil problem? I see it as a hazard. have it drain to a dump.

   1. The freeways have drains. If there is standing water, that’s probably on top of a clogged drain. WSDOT maintenance should be clearing these drains when they’re found to be clogged.

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