Vinyl Seats are Coming to All Link Trains

32 Replies to “Vinyl Seats are Coming to All Link Trains”

1. Wait…the ADA logo will be cloth while everything else will be vinyl?

   1. The picture shows the ADA logo on a cloth upper section. The lower section of the seat is where the vinyl inserts will be.

      1. The vinyl inserts will be on both the seat (lower part) and back (upper part). It is unclear how the “embroidered” ADA logo will be added to those seats.

         The picture makes it look like some sort of slip cover, maybe?

      2. That upper section is vinyl. They’re testing that newer pattern on the 2 line right now. It’s a stitched cloth ADA logo embroidered into the vinyl/rubber material.

   2. Good question. I’ve reached out to ST for clarification.

      1. @ Brent and Nathan – I’m still not following, gentlemen. Based on the photos, I see a full cloth ADA pad. The seats don’t appear to have any insert pouches.

      2. Jordan, I received a response from ST today and updated the post. ST confirmed D M’s comment that the logos are embroidered directly into the vinyl seat backs.

2. Ah, yes! Trains will gain a little more capacity when passengers stop folding down the fold-up seats just because they are there (if that happens).

   But for wheelchairs, it is better to not have the fold-up seats there at all.

   For others who need seats, it is better to designate some lower-area seats as reserved for those who need them than to make them have to struggle with the fold-up seats.

   The quick-clean vinyl will also keep the capacity of trains from deteriorating over the course of the train’s service day.

   Sometimes, the little improvements can make a big difference. Thank you, Sound Transit!

   1. I’ve been wondering if the removal of the glass barriers at the doors will improve access for wheelchairs. It seems they have to zig zag around them and move forward/backward to get into position. If the glass barriers were gone, they could simply enter and turn into place.

3. Aren’t the current seats currently covered by man-made materials anyway? The seems to be just changing out the weave for a solid sheet, right?

   I get how eliminating micro-fiber weaves to solid sheets improves maintenance and sanitary cleanliness. However, vinyl isn’t that comfortable to rub against and I could see skin and clothing stick more easily to it, especially when wet. I would have used weaving that can quickly dry for the seats and vinyl for the backs.

   I hope that ST is aware of these issues and will work with the chosen vendor to maximize rider comfort. However, I’ve seen ST historically ignore rider experience so many times in so many ways, I have to be somewhat skeptical.

   1. I can see skin sticking to the vinyl in very hot conditions. But that’s never an issue since the trains have AC and it’s not like the seats are under constant sun-exposure. Also, if someone is short shorts is sitting in the seat for a long time. As for the wetness, water simply slides right off. It doesn’t seep into the material as with cloth. All in all, these seats are pretty dang neat and I bet is waaay easier for maintanence to clean.

   2. Unless you’re a sticky person by default, non fabric materials are used around the world and nobody has yet lost their skin while seating

      1. You ever stick to leather after sitting for a long time? Despite these miniscule concerns, the new vinyl seats will be a huge improvement.

4. The logo should not be called the “ADA Logo”. It’s called the International Symbol of Access or ISA.

   We should morally embrace access — and not merely say that ST is obeying a law primarily to avoid lawsuits. Calling it the “ADA logo” seems to imply that ST only added it just to more explicitly demonstrate compliance. I think better of them.

   I suggest that the post gets edited with the actual name.

   1. It’s the language ST used in their blog post, but the point on inclusivity is appreciated.

      1. I suspected that this was the case. It’s rather revealing how systemically morally bankrupt ST can be as an agency. To them it’s more about compliance rather than service to the public. It’s also how they so quickly eliminate accessibility things like extra elevators and escalators when they cut costs. They want to do the bare minimum.

         I noticed two disability advocates attended the last System Expansion Committee and spoke. One pleaded for a three-line DSTT and called out how badly they are designing transfers. No Board member spoke up to agree with them.

      2. Insinuating that ST is “morally bankrupt” for calling it the ADA logo and not the “International Symbol of Access” is insane and incredibly silly. It was a post written by a social media person, not a disability policy expert. I highly doubt that using incorrect terminology that more Americans are familiar with anyway (hence the mistake) is an indication that ST is somehow “morally bankrupt”. ISTG people on this blog create and then look for any issue that confirms their biases against the agency, real or imagined. And people wonder why nobody takes you guys seriously anymore.

      3. “It was a post written by a social media person, not a disability policy expert.”

         Yep.

         Consider what that says about the agency culture for a minute. It may be extreme to say that they’re morally bankrupt — but their focus on feel good press releases can’t be denied. The agency has a culture that often looks at accessibility as a compliance thing rather than a moral thing.

      4. Al S. is just a commenter. He offers opinions with which I sometimes agree and learn from, and sometimes don’t understand where is coming from. His calling out a writer’s regurgitation of an ST media person’s inartful nomenclature taught me something. His conclusions about the agency seemed overwrought for one language slip.

         Proclamations that nobody takes the blog seriously any more show me that the person saying it does actually take the blog seriously enough to read posts and comments, but adds zero value to the debate.

   2. Agencies and organizations everywhere use “ADA” to refer to their accessibility features. It’s not fair to single out Sound Transit.

   3. Worry about things that actually matter….acronyms for for dumb people pretending to be smart. Same those that correct this sort of meaningless shit.

   4. This comment for me represents the spirit of current Seattle and is emblematic of the thinking that got Trump elected.

5. I flat out refused to sit on the current seats. Disgusting. This change is long due and looking forward to it.

   1. Almost every Link ride I’ve made in the past years all had brownish stains on many of the seats. The trains are already packed and people choose to stand instead of sit despite the available seats.

      I would be lucky to find a car with perfectly good seats.

      1. We don’t seem to be riding the same trains. I’ve found plenty of seats with stains that seemed to be from something evaporated, but have yet to encounter one that looks brown.

         I’ve also encountered several spills of mystery fluid on floors, which can render a section of the vehicle unusable. Most of those were on buses. Vinyl seats do little to prevent spills, and could actually exacerbate them.

         Since 2020, I rarely sit next to anyone on a bus or train, unless they are family or people who I know. That has nothing to do with the condition of the seats.

   2. @Brent.. the fact that you’re encountering stained seats is a testament to both rider-grossness and ST’s inability to keep up with cleaning them. The two factors combined create for a bad rider experience – whether they’re evaporated stains or fresh brown ones.

      I share in your experience of seeing mostly non-brown stains in seats. But I don’t take the risk in determining if they’re fresh or evaporated. For me, a stain automatically equates to biohazard and thus I’m not gonna sit there.

      In a slight off-topic, I’ve suggested to ST several times that we need cleaning crews at the end of each line coming onboard to quickly clean trains. Picking up trash, brushing off seats and cleaning biohazards if needed. In the airline industry, they’re call “turn crews” as a plane comes in and quickly turns around to depart. TriMet and BART have dedicated crews. ST definitely should have its own cleaning crews as well while trains are in service.

      1. If a train car has suspicious stains, the appropriate action would seem to be to take that car (or portion of that car) out of service until it can be cleaned and disinfected. For buses, agencies usually would depend on drivers noticing these things but trains are so much bigger that a driver wouldn’t easily notice most problems like this.

         Do security or fare checking staff get trained on recognizing and taking action when they see evidence of a contamination problem? Do they have the tools on-hand (like biohazard ribbons) to at least warn riders?

         I hope that they do. It’s an anecdotal situation so I’ve not seen it personally with Link but I’ve seen bus drivers respond before.

         It also would help in-field cleaning staff know where action is needed if they can be notified in advance.

6. Oh, cool. I also noticed Community Transit started to do this. This is a great move, it cuts money, and has a better feeling (and cleanliness). When I saw plain, gray seats on a Swift bus (with the upholstery missing) I was like.. What?

   1. The Community Transit buses at least felt clean despite the cloth and they’re really nice. Enjoyed riding and their buses were on time/quick compared to Sound Transit and King County Metro.

      Kind of suggests the difference between who’s riding for each agency… In terms of cleanliness.

      1. Just imagine the bed bugs in Metro buses.yikes. I’ll stand thanks

      2. Sounds like you got the lucky roll.

         Most of the Community Transits I’ve ridden aren’t exactly pristine or reliable. Cancelation without notification is a daily occurrence, which is not great when it only comes once an hour. My most recent ride was a 20 minute late tall bus with the upper window ready to shatter when a moth lands on it, cracks in the roof joints marked by the mildew growing down the wall, mold growing under the armrests, and one of the seats snapped in half with no attempts to even so much as tape it off. At least the driver was friendly.

7. They needed a survey to tell them why keeping fabric clean is hard? Do these people actually use transit? So glad to see the fabric gone. It literally acts like toilet paper

Comments are closed.