Now that the full 2 Line has been running for two weeks, what has been your experience on the 1 and 2 Lines since the first regular weekday (March 30)?
Here’s what we’ve heard so far:
- April 1 (Bernie), Eastside and Judkins Park
- April 2 (Nathan Dickey), Judkins Park
- April 2 (Sam), operator switch points
- April 2 (Ian), 205K boardings on opening day
- April 2 (HZ), Crosslake
- April 2 (Andy L), Eastside, BellHop
- April 2 (Mike Orr), central/north Seattle
- April 4 (Mike Orr), my first Crosslake trip
- April 6 (HZ), South Bellevue
- April 8 (Brent White), crowding question
- April 8 (Dijibell), it’s working smooth
- April 9 (HZ), Symphony to Bellevue, side-shaking
Most people seem to say there’s lots of 2 Line trains, ridership is higher than they expected, trains are slow in several places, some of the slowness was resolved after the first few days, there’s side-shaking (“hunting”) in some places.
I’ve seen 2 Line midday and afternoon trains almost full or standing room only at Westlake, Capitol Hill, and north Seattle. Others have reported the same in the Eastside. Before simulated service, the 1 Line was like that in central and north Seattle. We assumed a lot of people would disappear from the 1 Line when the 2 Line and simulated service started. Instead the 1 Line is as busy as ever, and there are a lot of people on the 2 Line. However, 2 Line trains are 2 or 3 cars now, so people aren’t spread out across 4 cars. Still, off-peak ridership in the Eastside seems higher to me than in Shoreline, Lynnwood, and Federal Way.
I haven’t heard any complaints about long waits. In Seattle “5-minute combined service” sometimes stretches to 9 minutes.In the Eastside I’m guessing 10-minute service might stretch to 15 minutes sometimes, but I haven’t heard any reports of it.
How have you been using the 2 Line, or combined 1/2 Line service north of Chinatown/International District? Have your experiences been similar or different?
Its been fantastic! As an operator, the longer ride is better IMO and completes it. As a passenger, I’ve been visiting Wilburton, Bel-Red, and DT Redmond for food options.
If the service continues as it is trending right now, the 2 line is going to have a similar issue that the 1 Line had when they were only having 2-3 car trains is turning people away at stations due to being full. Some of it is etiquette and people not moving throughout the train but being generally full from Shoreline South to Downtown Bellevue and sometimes even Bel-Red is going to turn people off to some degree.
Parking garage usage on the 2 Line is about 80-95% full depending on the day of the week. Mercer Island is obviously crying wolf that they don’t have a parking garage after fighting to not have the train OR parking there, so that’s going splendid.
The game day adoption has taken off really well with pretty much all the garages being full.
Airport transfers are going OKAY but I generally add transfer to the 1 Line at IDS OR stay on to Capitol Hill for the center platform walk across if not in a time crunch as it is a 16 minute penalty (8 mins up, 8 mins back). It is about 60-70% will stay on to Capitol Hill instead of using the stairs/elevator. The people yearn for a center platform at PSS again but with stairs and a elevator and maybe a center platform walkway with a 10mph limit. Hint, Hint.
A bit of correction on the operator relief points, only Lynnwood, Spring District, and Downtown Redmond are operator relief spots for the 2 line. For the 1 line, it remains Lynnwood, the Shack between Beacon Hill and SODO stations next to OMF-C and Federal Way.
There was a minor change to operations to reduce the wait time at Judkins Park and now dwell an extra minute at Mercer Island for westbound only trains.
Lynnwood is still the trouble spot, mainly delayed if a homeless persons refuse to get off the train (tail track is not certified for passenger occupancy). The increased presence of local and county police have made some improvements on the train and that particular issue and there has been a lot more removals and arrests, which as an operator, I am happy with. There has been far too many incidents with them lately, nevermind the odor, defecating on the seats, pissing on the seats, etc. Having that right behind the cab is downright terrible. Thankfully ST brought on car cleaners at Federal Way and Redmond but there isn’t enough time to have them at Lynnwood.
The new vinyl seat covers are great but there are some ther have been cutting and burning them, so not so great.
Kent/Des Moines and Star Lake ridership is way up and the parking garage Tues-Thurs is about 90-95% full by 10am now. Federal Way garage is about 80-90% but hard to see the upper level to tell how full/empty it is from the station and guideway coming into Fed Way.
All in all, things are going well and looking forward to the FIFA madness.
What’s your impression of ridership north of Northgate and south of Angle Lake and Kent-Des Moines? Is on a good trajactory? Is it lagging off-peak? Full garages are nice but that’s only a small fraction of passengers, and it doesn’t in itself tell what people are dong after the garages fill up at 7am or so.
After 10a, it drops off until SeaTac, picking up a handful at Star Lake, Kent, and Angle Lake. Tukwila is still fairly busy and commonly get about a dozen or more passengers. Picks up from Rainier Beach to Mt. Baker, especially Othello station.
The same can be said for MLT South to Northgate. It picks up quite a bit at Northgate with a lot of on/offs from Roosevelt to Capitol Hill.
Thank you for the clarification on the Operator relief points. Can you explain why Lynnwood-bound 2 Line trains often go extremely slow through the elevated curve south of IDS? I imagine it has something to do with northbound 1 Line trains, but is there another reason?
It is due to how sharp the curve is. It is 20mph for both EB and WB trains before increasing to 35mph EB. Leaving SB/EB it is 10mph from the exit of the tunnel thru the platform, a change due to ATP and the signal not setting the route until you basically stop.
Thanks for bringing attention to the homeless problem. This was very costly infrastructure to see it used as shelter and sanitary facilities for homeless. Redmond PD and Bellevue seem to be doing great but Lynnwood still a problem. They really need to install fare gates and tough enforcement of no shelter regulations on any sound transit property. keep up sharing!
Fare gates aren’t the panacea we assume it would be.
You don’t want them on our at grade stations (stadium sodo Columbia City othello rainier beach and belred). The reason is they have limited accessibility and scofflaws walking around them by way of the tracks. Without this, fare gates don’t work.
Not sure what you mean by the last sentence there.
I do support more fare ambassadors as they’ll help address a lot of these issues plus provide a stronger security and customer service presence. But if we think we can put up fare gates and pat ourselves on the back and put strongmen on the trains and that will fix everything, we are in for a surprise.
“keep up sharing!”
“Not sure what you mean by the last sentence there.”
I think he’s encouraging The One to keep posting their observations.
If we as a region want homeless people to shelter outside of the light rail cars, we should build more shelters and expand low and median income housing. Making homeless people illegal doesn’t give them homes.
With the 545 around, Redmond to Seattle (SLU up to 7th ave) is a good 15-20 time penalty making the 2 line useful only in peak traffic for commute times on this section. Eastbound peak for 545 will be horrible with the revive i5 work. There was some switch issue on Monday delaying Bellevue to Redmond by good 15-20 mins.
I have consistently seen 2 line eastbound vary from being 3 mins early to 4 mins late throughout.
The lateral movements (hunting?) are very evident on the Redmond Tech to Marymoor village section where the 2 line pretty much keeps up with freeway speeds.
It’s however been a refreshing option to park at MVS and head down to UW and Seattle over the weekend. Crush load in the afternoon last week both sides from SBS to UW. And relatively full trains to Bellevue during commute time. I had no concern finding parking at level 1 so unsure about the garage fullness at MVS.
With respect to the transfer for airport, why can’t sound Transit run like an hourly train from the Eastside to Federal Way via IDS/PSS. If there are track switches, the train can switch over to the right platform while coming in from Eastside and then head south. It would be a good option to test out the 6 minute headway constraints on the RV section, give some additional frequency, and connect the Eastside with airport/Federal Way without major upgrades.
“Hunting” explained by Co-Pilot:
Hunting, in railroad terminology, refers to a side‑to‑side oscillation of a wheelset or truck (bogie) as it moves along the track. The term comes from the way the wheelset “hunts” for a stable center position but overshoots it, creating a repeating sway.
The combination of the 542 to UW station, followed by the 1 or 2 line to downtown is also pretty fast. The 545 is not really needed for this role.
In addition, on weekends, the 545 makes up for its speed with poor frequency, dropping to hourly on Saturday/Sunday evenings after 8 PM. Ditto with the 542. And, of course, the 545 can easily get bogged down in stadium event traffic (as can the 542 if the event is as Husky Stadium).
One thing I think would help is if the 545’s service were added to the 542, at least on weekends, allowing the 542 to run every 15-30 minutes, rather than 30-60. If there’s a Husky game, people can just ride Link around via I-90 to bypass the traffic.
Yeah, at current service levels. the 545 isn’t justified. It doesn’t save enough time. It is essentially an express overlay. We would have to be running the 542 (and a lot more buses) a lot more often before it makes sense to run the 545. The same thing is true with an express from Downtown Bellevue to Downtown Seattle (skipping South Bellevue and Mercer Island). Sure, it would save riders some time (especially if it started to the north end of Downtown Bellevue). But not enough to make sense unless we were running a lot more buses.
The hunting is more track geometry than vehicle item, though wheel profile does play a small part of it as it is occurring on both Siemens and KI’s. The rebuilt trucks on the KI’s have improved this a lot but it is more track (non safety related) than anything, just needs to be tamped and aligned to get the wiggle out in the ballasted segments.
In the tunnel however, it is a bit more of a complex item that will require a longer period to look at the issue(s) there. I assume it is the same thing going on between the Duwamish River and South Base with some pretty hard jolts. That work is scheduled towards the end of the month and hopefully resolves it. It hasn’t gotten worse but it hasn’t gotten better either.
Running a dedicated train for the Eastside would be a large time penalty and would not be able to stop at IDS. Trains would have to go into the IDS Tail track, operator change ends, then head East and slot in between the 1 and 2 line trains. It is possible but it would be terribly inefficient use of train slots that wouldn’t necessarily justify the cost and time of doing it. It would still be faster to transfer from the 1 Line to the 2 Line vs that move.
As much as gondolas annoy me except in special cases, a gondola from Mt. Baker to Judkins would be a better use of time.
I’ve been thinking that if Issaquah wins the ST3 lottery it would be great to run trains from Issaquah directly across I-90 and then interline going south. This would make MI the central transfer point for people going Issaquah to Bellevue/Redmond and Redmond/Bellevue passengers going to SEA and hopefully someday Tacoma. There’s really no value in tracks north of I-90 to Bellevue DT and the short tail track to S. Kirkland is cheap & easy it’s pretty useless.
Line 4 generally needs some serious rethinking.
It has weak ridership forecasts because Seattle transfers are forced to East Main and that adds about 5 minutes of out-of-direction travel on a Link train — in addition to added time crossing tracks then waiting for a second train. Then the current station sites are today mainly parking lots (Factoria’s site excepted but it’s in a difficult location to access by walking).
The big initial question is whether or not it’s possible to cross Mercer slough near I-90. Or more accurately, whether it’s better to cross a wider but more direct path across the slough or to run along the edge of the slough and then cross it at a narrower upstream location. It needs to be analyzed.
After that, the station locations were not carefully chosen and instead defaulted to serve those existing parking structures. ST has not yet proposed a more involved station location study. Issaquah has shown an interest in different locations already.
I think a case for an automated line from South Bellevue to Issaquah could be made. It would enable things like high-frequency connectivity (trains with open doors sitting at South Bellevue that the leave every few minutes), single track segments like over Mercer Slough and shorter boarding platforms that could enable flexibility in platform siting and positioning — and maybe even creating two shorter platforms separated by 1/3 to 1/2 mile rather than one longer one.
Due to the contract as it is today, automated trains cannot run on existing lines. It would have to be entirely new construction (hint 3-Line).
The idea of doing a Federal Way to Issaquah line is actually not something I considered because of MLK but it would make sense to do something like that, you could add a station between JPS and MBS maybe around College St to give the CID a second station. The 1 and 2 Linea would have to go from 8-10 min headways to 10-12 minutes, which will meet the SDOT requirements of 5-6 min headways on MLK and maintain spacing from IDS to Lynnwood/Mariner P&R. We lose some time but we gain a bit more overall reliability and less bunching (unless something happens on MLK, high winds on I-90 or at Mariner P&R)
Really interesting 🤔
The curve from JPS to head South would be a slow, sharp curve but it is entirely doable. There isn’t enough room between the Beacon Hill tunnel Portal and OMF-C to curve left and start a new line down Airport Way for a Georgetown bypass, so Rainier/MLK would be the better solution.
Federal Way to Issaquah line is a terrible idea.
The Issaquah line should be a BRT line, terminating at a Link station (MI, S Bellevue, or Bellevue TC).
If it is a Link line, it should go through downtown Bellevue or downtown Seattle, as those are the major employment centers and transfer nodes.
@The One, thanks for the consideration and explaining the headway issue on MLK. I didn’t know about that SDOT requirement. I guess to change that would mean more/total grade separation which would be prohibitively expensive.
Just looking at Google maps I was thinking the branch after JPS would go down Rainier. This might be a lot easier to pull off with some of the designs WSDOT is considering for the Rainier on/off ramp redo. It would have to be elevated but it’s a short stretch. That’s the main point of this idea is to keep cost down by using as much existing track as possible.
@AJ, I get that current demand points to a good BRT system vs rail but I qualified my idea with “if Issaquah wins the ST3 lottery”. The lack of a one seat ride for Issaquah to either DT Seattle or DT Bellevue is unfortunate but it wouldn’t be a one seat ride with BRT and you have much better frequency & transfers with Link. And they do get a one seat ride to SEA. What can get built with the leftover crumbs from ST3 is not going to be much. This idea leverages the already built sections across MI and Lake Washington plus all the track south of MBS.
It would be a fantastic one seat ride for anyone living south of Seattle and working in Issaquah as they avoid the 405 gridlock which prevents any sort of fast reliable trips pretty much all day everyday. As eastside home prices have escalated to the level of Seattle the accelerated growth in SnoCo & Pierce is “driven” largely by commuters that have been priced out of King.
I’ve been thinking that if Issaquah wins the ST3 lottery it would be great to run trains from Issaquah directly across I-90 and then interline going south.
I think you are forgetting about the headway situation. A train would have to run opposite East Link and opposite the main line in Rainier Valley. This means 15 minute headways during peak and 20 minute headways in the middle of the day. That might work for commuters if you build a big enough parking garage. But someone in the Highlands would be better off riding a bus to Mercer Island. Riders in Eastgate would avoid a transfer but the wait would be so long it isn’t worth the one-seat ride. Meanwhile, the vast majority of train riders would have to transfer again anyway. That’s because the train serving Issaquah would not go to the middle of downtown or the UW. It would instead serve the edge of downtown and then go south. The transfer would be easier — I’ll give you that — but otherwise they are much better off just taking a bus to Mercer Island. If we magically had much better headways then it would be plausible but without that, I don’t see it working.
Line 4 generally needs some serious rethinking.
Agreed. It is important to understand that Issaquah Link will not help riders from the I-90 corridor get to Seattle. It was never intended to. It would be extremely difficult for a train to compete with buses along that corridor (for the reasons mentioned above). If you interline in Mercer Island you have poor headways. If you don’t, then you are basically doing the same thing as a single bus line. You are asking people to transfer *after* taking the train. For some riders that is a three-seat ride (which is clearly worse than a direct bus to Mercer Island). If you are in Eastgate the frequency is worse. So give ST some credit. They knew they couldn’t compete with express buses to Mercer Island so they didn’t try. They will run buses to Mercer Island whether Issaquah Link is built or not.
Issaquah Link helps riders get to Downtown Bellevue. This is a laudable goal. But there is a much better alternative for riders. From a capital spending standpoint, they should connect the HOV lanes of I-90 and 405 instead. This would cost substantially less. This dramatically improves the travel time from Eastgate to Downtown Bellevue — making it similar to Issaquah Link. Once you do that, it is simply a matter of running a lot of buses.
Several buses would run express from Downtown Bellevue to Eastgate. They would basically fan out from there. Some would go up to Bellevue College and then head east (branching again). Many would go to Issaquah to serve the north, central and Highlands part of the city. Thus riders in a lot more places in Issaquah would have direct service to Downtown Bellevue (and Eastgate). The same is true with parts of Bellevue. Eastgate would have outstanding frequency for trips to Downtown Bellevue — much better than Issaquah Link. This is much better for riders and much cheaper to implement. In other words, if Issaquah wins the ST3 lottery they should spend money on the I-90/405 interchange and then run buses a lot more often.
The lack of a one seat ride for Issaquah to either DT Seattle or DT Bellevue is unfortunate but it wouldn’t be a one seat ride with BRT and you have much better frequency & transfers with Link.
You would definitely have a one-seat ride from Issaquah to Downtown Bellevue if you went with the proposal in my previous comment. You would actually have a lot more one-seat rides. The plan for Issaquah Link is to have only one station in Issaquah. Just one. That means that riders would have to transfer to get to Downtown Bellevue from the vast majority of locations in Issaquah. In contrast, it is pretty easy to imagine running a bus from the Highlands, central Issaquah and north Issaquah to Downtown Bellevue. That means dozens of stops serving Issaquah.
As far as frequency goes, it depends on where you are. Eastgate would have much better frequency from buses than with Link. Depending on the level of service, the same could happen with parts of Issaquah. Buses could converge onto 17th and Gilman, before getting on the freeway. If each bus ran every 15 minutes that would mean 7.5 minute midday headways from there.
You wouldn’t have a one-seat ride to Seattle; that is definitely true. But for headway reasons I don’t think interlining is practical.
Again, the idea of Issaquah to FW is based on Sound Transit being hell bent on building rail. They’ll kick in money for some BRT infrastructure but I wouldn’t expect that to ever include I-90 to 405 HOV ramps. That’s going to be WSDOT money and for the foreseeable future they have enough problems fixing the decaying highway system (including the WSF mainie highway system). Although HOV ramps would be a big plus overall it still wouldn’t be a fast reliable one seat ride from Issaquah to DT Bellevue because the HOV lanes are at a stop through Bellevue for a large part of the day. Bellevue Way is faster but then you are just going to end BRT at S. Bellevue P&R because you’re better off turning the buses back for more frequency than slogging through to the transit center when half the people are getting off at the P&R to take Link into Seattle.
“The One” talked about frequency. I thought that since it didn’t affect the bus tunnel you’d be able to run the same frequency south as the 1 Line north and the 2 Line could handle the doubled frequency over the section from MI to JPS. I guess that’s not the case because of constraints on MLK so the 2 Line would go from 8-10 minutes to 10-12 minutes. Not ideal but just run 3-4 car trains instead of 2-3 car trains and it’s certainly workable. Plus 2 Line gets the benefit of a center platform transfer for points south which is a big issue now with the converted bus tunnel.
A few things:
1. The distance between Mt Baker and Judkins Park is not that far. It could be served by a gondola, a single track aerial cable pulled car with two end platforms and a bypass in the middle or even just a shuttle bus.
One of my musings is for FHSC to be split at 14th and Jackson with the First Hill segment continuing south in Rainier to both JPS and MBS. But frankly, service could be much more attainable and affordable if RapidRude R is simply structured to follow Route 9 instead of Route 7. Resulting Route 7 bus service hours could be reduced substantially as runs would shift to the new RapidRide corridor. (Route 7 is already duplicated north of MBS by Route 106 and now Judkins Park station offers another intermediate transfer point or a direct CID connection.)
2. A second cross-lake line may be a technical challenge with the floating bridge. That concern must be answered before looking at pairing any end points on the Seattle side of the lake to Issaquah. (This is a factor why I think 4 Line should consider being a high frequency stub from South Bellevue.)
I also don’t see how MLK could accommodate a second line at the surface. A Federal Way connection would seem to require building the Duwamish bypass or separating MLK tracks from the surface. Rather than Federal Way, an Issaquah to Seattle line could however do other things. Maybe it could instead be paired with either Ballard or with West Seattle. Maybe it could branch off at the Dearborn curve and end at Harborview. This gets into the bigger rail system layout concepts and that is a very expensive and long-range discussion.
Or they could just adjust 8/48’s schedule to make them leave Mt Baker TC alternately. Right now 8/48 almost always leaves Mt Baker TC at the same time.
I don’t think this is that important in a way that helps people go from eastside to airport. Once S1 starts, S1 transferring 1 Line will be better route
“Or they could just adjust 8/48’s schedule to make them leave Mt Baker TC alternately.”
Well there is still the lingering issue of the poor siting of the Mt Baker transit center relative to the Link station. Regardless of what happens, this needs to be solved.
They did adjust late night timing for the 48 so that buses arrive every 15 minutes late at night. But yeah, this is something that will likely be looked at by Metro’s planners once things settle down. This wouldn’t be a huge issue for Metro to fix, as most blocks on these routes arent shared with other routes. Theres a block where a 48 runs from Mt Baker to U District and then goes downtown for a 17 trip, and another block thats mostly route 8 until the end where it does a 48 trip. And for route 8, the only block that has other routes is the same block i just mentioned with the 48 at the end. So the times could be reconfigured to better serve Judkins Park.
Thanks pantographapp.app
I’ve been using the Judkins Park Station almost daily during PM peak since it opened. Most surprising, to me, is that most riders seem to be preferring the east entrance to 23rd Avenue over the west entrance to Rainier Avenue. Aesthetically, it’s an obvious choice; but I would have thought that Rainier would be more convenient for the majority of passengers. I guess not.
Two-car trains have been full, 3-car trains are a little more spacious.
Not all drivers are making announcements that IDS is the last transfer point for SEA, but passengers onboard have been stepping in to inform people with luggage that IDS is the last stop for the SEA transfer. Also, based on last night’s experience, it would be a good idea for drivers to announce that IDS is the last and best stop for passengers going to baseball games.
I thought I heard automated announcements on the train before CID and maybe Pioneer Square station that people going to Sea-Tac airport must transfer to the 1 Line. It sounded like a canned message.
They are canned and, therefore, often ignored. There are many travelers who also don’t speak English as their primary language and may have trouble understanding canned messages. When the driver makes an announcement, it usually gets everyone’s attention.
This is one thing I encourage people to write to Sound Transit about having multiple languages for the transfer for both directions. Most people that end up staying on the 2 line and get off at Judkins are ones who didn’t understand it is the last Southbound stop.
@GuyOnBeaconHill
We should write to sound transit to have fewer announcements so that the canned ones get more people’s attention. Canned is good for consistency, and even though operator announcements get people’s attention, they can’t be multilingual and often sound like the operator is underwater.
Does anyone care about “please hold on” after the train has started to move? Or “if you have luggage, don’t take escalators?”
What are the four languages of the new disability seat message? English, Spanish, Chinese I think, but what’s the fourth? It sounds partly like Japanese but partly not. Korean?
English, Spanish, Cantonese, Mandarin, and Vietnamese
most riders seem to be preferring the east entrance to 23rd Avenue over the west entrance to Rainier Avenue [to Judkins Park Station]
There are several use cases but I think the vast majority of people who walk to the station are using the 23rd entrance. There are a relatively small number of people who are closer to the Rainier entrance. Some of those potential riders may just use the 7 if they are headed downtown.
Speaking of which, I asked Google for a trip involving a bus stop on Rainier to Northgate (https://maps.app.goo.gl/n6FdYYHfLtwvdp3x9). I figure this is one of the use cases for the station. You can transfer at several places but this seems like the best option. The train gets to Seattle sooner and yet you get off the bus before CID. Yet Google recommends staying on the bus and transferring at CID (on a Saturday). This could be because the walk is just a little bit shorter. It could also be because the trains run twice as often there. I’ve played around with the time and day and can’t get it to make the transfer at Judkins Park. This may be a software glitch — not enough people are using that option. But that itself suggests people are ignoring it for that trip (and this could change). This means that the main group of people using the station from Rainier are transferring from a bus (like the 7 or 106) to get to the East Side. But you also have people on the 8 and 48 doing the same thing via 23rd. Given all that, it wouldn’t surprise me if more people use the 23rd entrance.
On a bike from beacon hill, it is faster and safer to take the path around and up to the east entrance.
There is currently zero walk shed to the east entrance, and a mandatory track crossing. Construction may change that, in a few years.
Only bus riders from Rainier valley will use it for now.
My guess for the more used station entry was the west/Rainier entry. The east entry is by far a more pleasant environment, but since the west entry area has more commercial businesses, and more multifamily residential (granted, a few blocks north and south of the station entry), I assumed the west entry would get more usage.
the west entry area has more commercial businesses, and more multifamily residential
OK, let’s break it down:
Northwest of the station: This is largely industrial.
Northeast of the station: This is basically the area you are referring to. If you are on the east side of Rainier it is basically a wash in terms of entrances. The developments start at Bush Place. From there you have to walk up the hill a bit if you are headed south on the pathway. Then you come to a fork. At that point you can continue following the pathway to the left and curve around to the 23rd entrance. Or you can go to the right and head back down the hill to Rainier. At that point you would have to go up again to get to the platform. The platform is a bit closer to 23rd, so you really don’t save much time going that way. If you are on one of the buildings next to Hiawatha it makes even more sense to head to 23rd.
Southeast of the station: Same idea. You can go left or right but you might as well head to 23rd (a more pleasant walk).
Anywhere close to or east of 23rd: 23rd is the best option. This is the Central Area not Lynnwood. There are some big buildings there but there is also a lot of “missing middle” type housing. For a lot of the riders, Link is the best option for getting downtown. The only other option is the 14 (which is well to the east) or the infrequent 4.
Southwest: For these riders the Rainier entrance makes sense. But for trips downtown they may just take the 7 — it is a shorter walk.
Thus from a walking standpoint, 23rd is bound to have more riders. It is only when you consider the buses that Rainier has a chance to compete. For trips to the East Side it is definitely popular, but the same thing can be said for 23rd (with riders coming from the north). For same-direction trips on Link (e. g. Rainier Valley to Northgate) this may eventually prove to be a popular choice. That is the only area where I see Rainier having an edge (since there really isn’t an equivalent for 23rd).
I use the west entrance working in the old Darigold (aka Black Mfg) building. For people living in the Hiawatha or 900 Rainier it’s a lot longer walk up to 23rd with the emphasis on UP and then back down to the platform. Plus you have to walk past the homeless encampment. The few times I’ve walked up to 23rd I’ve noticed there are always people around at street level. Not so with Rainier where all you’ll ever see is maybe a couple of people waiting for a bus. Thing is though the occupancy of all of these new buildings is still relatively low. 900 Rainier only opened a couple of months ago. It’s by far the largest complex and at present is at least 90% vacant (probably more like 95%). The Hiawatha is maybe 50% occupied. There are still several smaller multifamily projects on Hiawatha Pl still under construction.
Since I’m not driving I don’t go by the bus stop on Rainier just north of I-90 to see if it’s still as busy as it used to be.
The west entrance doesn’t have much around except for a connection to the #7 or #106 bus, and for a person living to the north where it might be an equidistant walk to either entrance, they will prefer 23rd because it is more pleasant. The east entrance also has bus connections in the form of the 8 and 48.
There is another factor here which is where the buses serving the west entrance go. A person coming from downtown would not be making this connection; they’d be just getting on the 2 line downtown. That leaves people coming from either 12th/Jackson or the Rainier Valley. From the Rainier Valley, some of these people might be taking the 48 to the east entrance, or taking Link to ID station and making the connection there. So, the 7 isn’t even doing all of the connections.
Adding all of this up, it does not surprise me the least for the east entrance to be bigger.
“I use the west entrance working in the old Darigold (aka Black Mfg) building.”
Was it originally Darigold? It was Black Manufacturing when we went there in the 70s for down jackets and things. Now it seems to be some kind of offices.
1130 Rainier was built as the Black Manufacturing Building. From Wikipedia:
The Black Manufacturing Company was a clothing manufacturer that produced the Black Bear brand of overalls as well as mackinaws and overcoats; George G. Black was the proprietor.[1] In 1914, Black had a building designed by Andrew Willatzen built for the company in Seattle. The business continued until 1982.[2] The company’s building is an official Seattle landmark and has been used by Dairygold.[actually Darigold, two very different companies]
Most people still call it the Darigold building since that was the more recent use.
I primarily use the Rainier entrance (transfer to/from Route 7), and have been underwhelmed with how many people make that same transfer. People on the 7 going downtown will just stay on the 7, and there is fairly low demand for Rainier Valley <-> Eastside trips right now. I suspect the latter will change over the next few years.
Yeah, that is probably where much of the ridership of the 550 came from (for that stop). While Link is a lot better in a lot of ways, this isn’t that different than the 550. If you are heading to Downtown Bellevue you switch to Link. If you are heading to Microsoft the train is a huge improvement, but I also assume they run Microsoft buses. Link serves a lot more places (and contractors can’t ride the Microsoft buses) so there is that. But at its peak the 550 had 250 riders eastbound which is good for a bus not that impressive for a train.
As I mentioned above the Central Area <-> Eastside riders will take 23rd. There may be almost as many people doing this as the Rainier Valley <-> Eastside.
I was expecting a new source of ridership would be people who live along the 7 in the RV and want to get to the eastside. I wonder if many of those riders gave up on transit when the I90 freeways top closed and it will take time for new trip habits to return.
I was expecting a new source of ridership would be people who live along the 7 in the RV and want to get to the eastside.
It is not really new. It just isn’t that big. It topped out at about 250 riders a day (with the 550). It may be that right now. This is good ridership for your average bus stop, but not that good for a station. This is all relative. Assume that it has reached that high point again (250). Add on another 100 for riders heading to other East Side locations (like Redmond) using the train. Also figure some riders prefer walking to that end of the station. So now you have maybe 500 riders using that side. That isn’t much. But if the other side has a couple thousand, then you are right there in the same ballpark as the other Rainier Valley stations (2,500 a day). Ridership from that side seems small (compared to the other side) but it is still important.
The land use and demographics are very different today than a decade ago when the 550 was at it’s peak. There’s way more employment on the eastside and there’s way more residential units in Seattle. The new construction north of Judkins Park is still sitting mostly empty. Unless we have a major recession I doubt that will be the case a year from now. Likewise there have been numerous upscale multifamily developments in the RV that is driving up SFH values (gentrification). I expect JPS to exceed the existing RV stations because it’s really two stations in one. east and west both have good bus transfers and the “neighborhood” is changing on the west side. A WSDOT redo on the I-90 ramps could be a game changer for how walkable the area becomes. Don’t know about land use changes south of I-90 but the ramp changes would certainly help there. Right now I-90 & Rainier is basically a freeway cloverleaf.
“ Most surprising, to me, is that most riders seem to be preferring the east entrance to 23rd Avenue over the west entrance to Rainier Avenue.”
That doesn’t surprise me that much. Unless a Link rider is coming from a Route 7 or 106 or walking down Rainier or from Beacon Hill, 23rd entrance is easier to use. 23rd is also an easier place to drop off or pick up someone (including Uber and Lyft). 23rd is where both Route 8 and 48 transfers are made in either direction.
If someone is coming up from Route 7 or 106 anywhere south of Mt Baker station, they already have been used to transferring to 1 Line trains. They will eventually try and perhaps switch to 2 Line transfers but that seems to be a change that happens gradually over several months.
I wonder if the journey to Rainier to/from the platform is a factor. Crossing the tracks and making that elevation change involves some effort.
If ever Metro creates a routing that connects First Hill and Judkins Park Station via Rainier (beyond a handful of Route 9 runs each weekday), I would expect an uptick in Rainier entrance/exit use.
I think it’s the same elevation change from the platform up to 23rd as it is down to Rainier. The 550 hasn’t stopped at Judkins Park since they tore out the flyer stop about 8 years ago. The 554 exits to Rainier but the 550 says on I-90 which along with getting kicked out of the bus tunnel cut big time into it’s ridership. But if you are trying to go south it’s a fair bit longer trek to the west side of Rainier. I’d guess maybe only a 1/4 of the people using the Rainier side make the trek to Rainier southbound.
The 550 hasn’t stopped at Judkins Park since they tore out the flyer stop about 8 years ago.
Yeah, and that was when ridership on the 550 peaked. I’m not saying there is a connection — that stop never carried that many people — I’m only saying that ridership has never reached the levels of 2016 (kicking the bus out of the transit tunnel had a big impact).
https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/2017-sip-final-draft.pdf#page=181
https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/documents/2020-service-implementation-plan.pdf#page=138
The few times I rode the 550 from DT back to Bellevue I seem to remember a fair number (6-10) boarding at the flyer stop. Along the path in Judkins Park there is still an old sign, mostly covered with graffiti, pointing to I-90 Station!
From the STB wayback machine, a 2019 post on why 550 ridership plummeted:
https://seattletransitblog.com/2019/10/16/why-ridership-on-st-550-melted-down/
When first reading the link I’d thought it had failed since one of my comments was almost the exact same rail against the ST board as today. Sill have the same board structure and still have the same fail. Only difference seems to be less people drinking the Kool-Aid.
I just rode it for the first time for actual use (not just opening day) but I only rode from Judkins park towards Seattle. The big elevated curve east of IDS was very slow, as Sam pointed out. While waiting at JP I wanted to sit down, but the roof was not keeping the bench dry in the slightest. Hopefully this can be fixed, (is the roof leaking or something??). The train was a three car, but was still surprisingly full as it was noon.
“ The train was a three car, but was still surprisingly full as it was noon.”
I think there has been suppressed interest in crossing the lake in the past. Unlike the 90 express buses, 2 Line offers more frequent service and connectivity beyond Downtown (like Capitol Hill and UW).
One example is wanting to shop. With Macy’s closed in both Downtown Seattle and Northgate, Bellevue Square is the only store walkable to Link. Seattle becomes more of a playground for Eastside residents too.
A successful light rail system needs all-day reasons to use it. It’s a big investment and should be used for all sorts of reasons — not just commuting.
*Disclaimers: I’m a big transit supporter; I’m not intending to bash on Link or KC Metro or public transit; I’m sharing one potentially extreme outlier experience that most won’t ever encounter; I didn’t try to optimize timing beforehand; and I’m mostly pointing out moments of friction that were by themselves minor, but together, significantly degraded an otherwise acceptable commute (at least relative to what could be reasonably expected).
I live in Columbia City (CC) (between 6-10 min walk from the 1 Line station) and I work in Kirkland. I’m on a hybrid schedule (only in-office a couple days per week). I usually have access to a carpool (~40 mins commute) but it fell through one time so I had to take transit. I don’t have a car and a one-way rideshare is typically $80-$110.
Maps gave me two options to get from my apartment to the Kirkland Transit Center: 1) take the 1 Line (on at CC off at UW) to the 255 (~1 hr 10 mins total); or 2) take the 7 to the 2 Line (on at Judkins Park, off at Wilburton) to the 250 (~1 hr 20 mins total). I have done option 1 a few times and it’s not bad but I didn’t mind the extra time to take the 2 Line because I hadn’t actually been on the Mercer Island-S Bellevue segment yet.
Work starts at 8. I also had a backpack + light carry-on with me.
I left my apartment around 6:40. I waited for the 7 around 10-15 minutes (Friction Point #1). It took 15-20 minutes to get to the Rainier Ave entrance of the Judkins Park station. The bus didn’t stop directly in front of the station entrance, but between the eastbound on-ramp entrance and the south overpass, so it took another 30 seconds just to get to the station entrance (Friction Point #2).
When I got to the top of the stairs, I saw an eastbound train already at the platform so I was disappointed to know I’d have to wait another 8-10 minutes for the next train (Friction Point #3). The Rainier entrance is deceptively far from the platform (solid 2-3 min walk) (Friction Point #4).
*Sidebar: the westbound train was at the platform. Security personnel (and the flashing lights and bells) stopped people at the grade-crossing until it passed. I and maybe 20-30 others waited around 2 minutes while the train was stopped at the platform. I understand the safety reasons, but I felt second-hand frustration for whoever wanted to get on the westbound train and had to wait 2 minutes just for it to pass by when they could’ve easily made it had there been no grade-crossing. Given the elevation of the platforms above Rainier Ave, I’m a little surprised the station was designed that way (Friction Point #5).
After I entered the eastbound train, it waited at the platform a few minutes before leaving. I assume there are reasons for this but for the non-train-operation-knowers, it just feels like more delay (Friction Point #6). At the moment the train leaves the station, it’s 7:20 and I’d been commuting for 40 minutes already.
Riding on the bridge is unreal and the approach into S Bellevue is epic (2 Line is awesome).
In hindsight, I should’ve gotten off at Bellevue Downtown and caught the 250 at the Bellevue TC, but I went with Maps’ suggestion to get off at Wilburton (around 7:40) and wait at 10th St (across from Overlake). Of course, both crosswalks at the intersection of 116th and 10th were closed for construction, with no alternative crossings provided, so I had to cross at the next lights on both sides (Friction Point #7). I got to the bus stop around 7:45 and had to wait until 8:04 (Friction Point #8). The rest of the trip went as expected and I finally sat down at my desk at 8:30. Overall, the trip took me 1hr 50mins, 30 mins longer than Maps had estimated.
Summary of Friction Points:
1. Waiting 10-15 minutes for the 7 bus.
2. 7 bus not stopping in front of the station entrance.
3. Waiting 8-10 minutes for the train.
4. 2-3 minute walk to the platform.
5. Waiting 2 minutes for the grade-crossing to open.
6. Waiting on the train for 2-3 minutes at the platform.
7. Forced detour that added 5 minutes of walking.
8. Waiting 20 minutes for the 250 bus.
I definitely got unlucky in that I had to wait the full time for a bus or train and I wouldn’t expect it to be that way every time, but I couldn’t make that trip consistently. I’ll likely be taking the 1 Line if I need to take transit to work moving forward (1 transfer is obviously less of. a hassle).
It wasn’t at all about the speed of the bus or train once I was on it. It was about all these little delays that added up. I know that’s just what comes with attempting a 3-leg transit trip, but I’d think at minimum the 7 is popular enough that some more thought/investment would’ve been put into making the transfer between it and the 2 line as seamless as possible.
For reference, in the time it took for me to get from my apartment to the inside of the I-90 tunnel (on the Seattle side), a car trip would’ve gotten me to my office. Of course, I don’t expect a transit trip from CC to Kirkland to be competitive with driving, but for just this segment to take that long is crazy to me. Luckily the weather was okay.
All that to say, I’m unfortunately not going to be able to make much use of the 2 Line on my commute, but I do intend to use it to visit Bellevue/Redmond which I’m looking forward to doing more of.
Also, it would be super useful if the next train sign boards could indicate the number of cars on the next train and where it’s stop.
Yes it would.
Rather than introduce another number in the sign, I’ve suggested that ST simply use train car icons in the past like this:
2 car:
🚋
🚋
3 car:
🚋🚋
🚋
4 car:
🚋🚋
🚋🚋
Sadly getting ST to improve rider info is very difficult. They seem to think rider suggestions are beneath them.
They still refer to 1 Line as northbound and southbound in schedules and audio announcements without having directional reference signs in stations — 16 years later.
Liam, it looks like the stars didn’t align for you that day. The 48 gets from Mt. Baker Station to the Montlake Freeway Station in about 25 minutes and the 255 to Kirkland TC is about 20 minutes more. Depending on where you start in CC, the 7, 9, 106 are all a 5-10 minute trip to Mt. Baker Station.
The reality is that for trips from Rainier Valley to downtown Kirkland, it’s faster to take the 48 to Montlake. I do it semi-regularly and I see more than just a few people making the same trip.
Yeah, I was thinking that too. The 48 should be the main option here. The bus should be faster and run more often. At one point that was the plan (way back when). Note: The plans called for combining the 7 and 48 but the idea would be the same even if the 48 ended at Mount Baker. Make the 48 a lot faster and more frequent. In Liam’s case the 48/7 combination would be ideal, as it would avoid another transfer.
Good to know! Not sure why that wasn’t a suggested route. Or maybe it was and I have a train bias that I need to work out haha.
Just noting that Route 48 ends at Mt Baker station. Leaving from Columbia City, that’s still meaning a Route 7 ride to get to it. So if a rider is already on Route 7, just staying on Route 7 to 2 Line is going to be reasonable depending on the ultimate eastside destination unless you like playing the realtime arrival transfer game.
RapidRide K should make reaching Kirkland from 2 Line more frequent and predictable. Unfortunately it’s not expected to open until 2030.
It’s unfortunate that MLK has Route 106 for your trip. Years ago, MLK through Columbia City was Route 8 or Route 48. Past proposals also paired Route 48 with Route 7 south of Mt Baker to create RapidRide R. Of course, that’s history at this point.
Taking the 7 to I-90 and catching the 2 Line to UW Station is possible. JPS>UW is scheduled as a 17-minute trip. Then add 6 minutes to get to the 255 stop in front of the hospital for a 23-minute journey.
Or, if you “just miss” the 2 Line you could keep walking through the station and go out to 23rd Avenue and catch a 48 for the 20-minute trip to Montlake. The 48 runs very reliably in the mornings. It will depart JPS to Montlake at :05, :20, :35, :50 (give or take a minute or two). Good luck.
@Guy — Ooooh. That is a smart strategy. Very clever. I would probably use One Bus Away to make sure the 48 is coming soon, but either way it is nice to have two options. It is intuitive to want to head east right away (after all, it is a quick trip) but heading towards the UW is probably better (since the 255 is quick across the water as well).
I lived in SeaTac from 2020-2025 and I would ride link from angle lake to University of Washington and then the 255 to totem lake. So I’ll try to help you out here.
The 2 line isn’t going to be that useful for you because theres way too many connections and opportunities for a disruption somewhere (a canceled trip, mechanical issues on the 2 line etc).
I’ve considered the 2 line to work but it doesn’t math for me.
Going home I’ll take it for the views. There’s a bus that goes from totem lake to downtown redmond station.
I would do as follows:
Take the 1 line to u of w station. Transfer to the 255 there (by the hospital).
If the tunnel is whacky, with crazy delays, get off link at STADIUM, walk one block EAST to 6TH avenue, cross and head south until you see the 545 stop. Then catch that bus to one of the two SR 520 freeway stops (evergreen point and yarrow point). Catch the 255 there.
Or you can get off at Mount baker and take the 48 if it’s real bad. Then take the 48 to montlake freeway station. The stop for the 255 will be to the east (don’t need to cross any streets here).
Trip planners aren’t great. On days link is running smoothly which lately it seems to be the ruoe not the exception.
I now live in the u district so the 255 is the only bus I need to take but I’ll take the 2 line for fun some evenings
My assessment, based on your friction points:
1: You had bad luck with the 7. It is supposed to run every 8 minutes at that hour.
2: That’s odd. I thought the bus stop was right there.
3: More bad luck.
4: This was inevitable given the design of the station. It could be oriented more towards Rainier but then it would be a longer walk from 23rd.
5: I can see how the gates can contribute to bad luck, especially from that direction. You get close to the platform about a minute before the eastbound train arrives. But now you have a train going the other direction, so you can’t reach it. So now you have to wait for the next train.
6: No one is quite sure why there are these delays. It might actually reduce the chance of having bad luck (see 5). I could see why they might hold the train to avoid that situation.
7: Yeah, construction projects often shortchange pedestrians around here.
8: More bad luck. The bus is supposed to run every fifteen minutes at that hour.
So I think in general you just had really bad luck. Other than the construction (which Google apparently wasn’t aware of) you made reasonable choices. We could definitely use better routing and better frequency on these buses but the frequency is supposed to be decent for those buses (and wasn’t). I also think it makes sense to run an express from Kirkland to Bellevue (although as you point out, that wasn’t the biggest problem). The biggest issue is frequency — as it often is.
Getting to my home near Kirkland Transit Center from SeaTac airport is a consistent 1 hour 15 minutes via the 1-line and 255. I’ve also done the trip from Columbia City, and it takes about an hour.
Some of that discrepancy may be walk time between home and the Link station. Some of it is also Google being generally pessimistic about assumed walking speeds and connection times.
In general, I think the 255 is a quicker way to do this trip than the 250, since Link is fast from downtown to UW and the 255 is fast going over the bridge.
Yeah, and know the circuit breakers if there’s a link disruption. 48 to montlake then 255 at montlake fwy station from Mt baker,
From stadium, 545 from 6th and royal brogham (if you see a mural of MLK on the chain linked fence at Atlantic base youre in the right spot). Transfer to the 255 at the freeway stations. The 545 is not being deleted this fall
These alternatives already exist in the route network and you don’t need to wait for metro to establish a bus bridge. You can also see these on their website.
The 8 and 48 also serve as circuit breakers for mt baker, judkins park and Capitol Hill / u of w and u district stations.
I am not sure that ST really thought through the design at Judkins Park – the at-grade pedestrian crossing there seems unnecessary, as if there should have been another option to avoid it (either going under or over the tracks) – I am not an engineer and I know they are cost-constrained, but scenarios where people are waiting to cross the tracks while a train is waiting on the platform feel particularly own-goal-ish.
This is an issue just with the west entrance?
Looking at the layouts from 2015, I don’t think there was the ROW – look at slide 12 in the PDF below, there is a gap between bridge 21 & 222 but not 223.
https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/project-documents/20161025-judkins-park-open-house.pdf
Re: Rethink line 4 alignment. Someone had made the comment on this blog previously- rail only makes sense when existing corridors have busses running at high frequency at full capacity. I don’t believe the Issaquah corridor is anywhere there. Many of the orientations have also focused on interlining. The bus ways to create high quality BRT should be built that can ‘preconfigure’ the demand for rail for the Issaquah (and most likely West Seattle) as well.
It makes more sense to connect line 4 with Bellevue and onward to UW (maybe via S Kirkland) onwards to Ballard in future ST plans (ST4?) allowing net new rail connections (with bus demand evaluations possible with the old 556, 271, and new 270). Busways built in ST3 connects the regions (Issaquah, West Seattle) to employment centers and then if there is further demand, it will be pre-configured for rail.
Issaquah and West Seattle links should become Stride 4,5 within ST3 and still be part of ST’s victory lap.
Money saved can be reinvested into either the Ballard link or if ST still comes short on the financials should then deliver another high quality BRT to Ballard as part of ST3. Similarly, Ballard link should probably look to be connected to a new region in Seattle instead of interlining. The 8 has already pre-configured demand for this.
There you go again, talking sense when the discussion is what ST might do with the remaining (or lack thereof) dollars. There’s all kinds of things that might make more sense; like putting it all on 18 red. The discussion of otherwise rational ideas isn’t relevant to a discussion of what the ST board is likely to do or even legally able to do. As long as Emperor Dow is in charge all the money is going to flow to West Seattle. That’s just a fact of how King County politics works. If that’s no longer the case then the crumbs may fall elsewhere. As I’ve tried to make clear, “if Issaquah wins the ST3 lottery” then how do they get the most viable project moved forward. That’s a complex mix of which other hyper local political allies you can get and what the partisan cost/ridership estimates will come in at. Talk all you want about how Seattle should have this or that but remember, King County (really the Eastside) had to bail out Seattle Transit when it went broke. If Seattle wants to break from Metro maybe it’s time. Just don’t expect to get thrown another lifeline if it fails.
Sounds like trains are crowded. I had contacted ST multiple times about removing transverse seating from the low-floor sections, to increase standing+circulation space.
Maybe a canned announcement, “Don’t stand in front of the F*cking doors” would help. Not sure how that translates to the other 4 languages but native speakers of those languages aren’t the target audience. It seems that at least with the 2 Line there is an overly polite problem. There can be several empty seats near a door but people don’t want to sit down next to someone else. That’s especially true of males boarding when the open seat is next to a female. Chivalry or fear of Cooties; not sure which. Then there’s the people who either take the aisle seat when both are available or put their purse+backpack+last weeks garbage on the seat next to them.
The Eastside is not the Upper East Side when it comes to dealing with “crowding”. There would be a complete meltdown if we had to deal with Asian style typical capacity.
Should some 1-line trains be reduced to 3 cars to allow all 2-line trains be 3 cars? It sounds like demand is similar between the two lines, so it makes sense to distribute the capacity more evenly.
How difficult is it to schedule around the overcrowding?
Several years ago, when TriMet hadn’t yet received all of its cars, they ran some single car trains. However, they made sure that those single car trains weren’t in downtown Portland during peak.
Eg: a single car trip on the blue line would leave downtown Portland at something like 3:30, but wouldn’t get back into downtown until 5:45, after the worst of Portland’s peak was over.
Is there enough of a peak concentration they could plan for the 3 car trains to be mostly in Lynnwood and Federal Way during the worst of the peak, and come back through Seattle after the worst is over?
“Should some 1-line trains be reduced to 3 cars to allow all 2-line trains be 3 cars? It sounds like demand is similar between the two lines, so it makes sense to distribute the capacity more evenly.”
My sense is that 2 Line is attracting new trips. Because of this, there is a learning curve about how train crowds accumulate during the day. However, after several weeks, attentive dispatchers and supervisors should have a clearer sense about what loads are occurring at what times. Even special events like Mariners game crowds should become more predictable after awhile.
When Glenn refers to is how seasoned transit services normally operate. They assign trains to be longer at the peak of the peak.
The question remains if ST will rise to the challenge and put in the effort figure out how to optimize the assignment of a limited number of train cars.
Hiring seasoned talent who have dealt with this challenge as part of their jobs should be a priority of ST management and the Board. Figuring out what to do is easier if the staff know the ways to address the problem. ST should start seeking experts on train overcrowding now.
The opening day was amazing! But it was also the day that Link graduated into “adulthood” where the hope of attracting more riders becomes tempered with how to approach daily crowding issues.
I think a case could be made to simply keep the 10 minute intervals of each line (5 minutes when combined) rather than go to 8 minutes (4 combined) as a way to avoid 2 car trains. It seems better to me to wait two more minutes for a train that has room then get stuck having to wait for a succeeding train because I couldn’t squeeze on.
I’m not sure how many train cars that would free, but I would think it would ease things.
I think what they should consider is to switch some of the NB 1 Line train into 2 Line train after they turnaround at Lynnwood in the mooring. There isn’t as much of demand going south of Downtown Seattle as other directions have in the morning.
Opening weekend: I took the 250 from South Rose Hill to Redmond Town Center, and hopped on Link to Symphony. When we crossed the bridge, everyone who wasn’t holding onto a handrail was shooting video of the trip on their phones (including me). The woman sitting next to me said she and her husband live in Seattle and he works on the Eastside, and his plan was to use the 2 Line for his commute. She also said they saw the demonstration of the rain hinge technology at Judkins Park by engineers. I hope somebody uploaded that to YouTube, I’d love to see it.
I had wanted to stop off at both Marymoor and Symphony to see the cricket team demo and the Seattle Symphony musicians, but having gotten to those stations at 11:30 and 12:30 or so, both were long gone, and my only momento was a Symphony travel mug from the prize wheel. I then went to Capitol Hill to visit some stores and eateries, and decided to take my maiden First Hill Streetcar trip to Chinatown for the trip back home. (I didn’t know one of the stops there had free parking; the woman next to me said she uses it as a park-and-ride when she uses the streetcar.)
The train back home was packed, with no seating until Wilburton. A little kid who got stuck standing had to stand on his tiptoes to see the train going over the tracks through the door windows. His father said, “This is train track that they’ve been building your entire life.” Someone else joked, “Enjoy it, kid, the rest of your life is going to be a big disappointment.” Such are the timelines needed for American infrastructure.
Next weekend: I took the 250 from South Rose Hill to the Bellevue Transit Center and then walked over to the Link stop. Two-car train, both were packed, even without a sporting event or political protest; constant three-car trips can’t come soon enough. On the return trip, people waiting for the 2 at the southern end of the Chinatown station were surprised when the two-car train stopped well short of that, and had to scurry northward to hop on. Again, crush-loaded, with no empty seats until Wilburton.
Ridership is dropping off as would be expected for a new line that opens whole new territory. It’s not like you could really access most of what East Link serves with the old bus service (unless you had a year and a day and liked hiking a lot). My experience after two weeks of commuting is ST is getting the balance of 2 vs 3 car trains dialed in pretty quickly. That said, I don’t think there is much marginal cost of running 2 vs 3 car trains. Running the longer trains makes ST’s numbers look better since they report cost on a per car rather than a per train basis (although it hurts on the % occupancy).
Right now the amount of rolling stock doesn’t appear to be an issue. I expect demand to start increasing again over the next few months. I wouldn’t be surprised to see 3 car trains all day like it was most of opening week. Stay tuned, same BAT time, same BAT channel ;-)
I’ve been commuting on the 2 Line M-Th since it opened, Northgate to Bellevue DT and back. Generally I catch the morning train at Northgate at about 6am or so, returning from Bellevue DT anywhere between 5 and 7pm. Including my drive to/from Northgate – the 75 would double that time; please go to Pinehurst 75! – and the average wait time for a train it’s about an hour or a bit more home to office (and back). This is more than 2x my drive commute in the morning but about equal to the evening commute in my car. All in all, that’s a win as what with being able to read etc. the commute seems quite a bit shorter than sitting on 520!
I don’t get the impression many are riding through from/to as far north as Northgate, at least in the morning; the cars are relatively empty by the time they get to CID, then some more folks join at Judkins Park and the other stations (except East Main). On the way back there have been good crowds on the trains headed west, in some instances because of events in Seattle – generally there are seats albeit with the horror of having to sit next to someone. Although it’s harder to tell in the afternoon/evening, I still don’t get the impression there are that many people riding from the Eastside much past Capitol Hill or maybe U District. The trains stay full but that seems to be people just hopping whatever the next northbound train is.
At Northgate in the AM the 4-car 1 Line train I don’t get on is always fuller than the 2-car 2 Line that I do get on, possibly because of the short headways between them – that said, I’m generally the only one at Northgate at that early hour who does not get on the 1 Line but waits for the 2 Line. The other 15-20 people get on the 1 when it arrives.
Technically (per Google Maps) it’s about 10 min faster to get off the train at U District and walk the block over to the 271 on the way to DT Bellevue, but I’m as close to the station as to a 271 stop in Bellevue so why bother? On the way back, again, the train is competitive with driving to the north end or the 271/train connection. I definitely enjoy the much lower stress levels as well as the ability to stop off in various places on the way that before I’d need to have planned a trip to.
Issues – mostly minor, although with visitors from around the world showing up in large numbers this year and trying to use the system, some of these things should be noted:
– please find a way to indicate how many cars are on each train on the platform signs! For an agency in a self-proclaimed “tech capital” not getting very pertinent information like this to riders is pretty inexcusable; OTOH this is an agency that couldn’t get “next train” time signs working forever, decades after the technology existed.
– station signage at Mercer Island and Judkins Park: it is difficult, occasionally impossible, to see the station sign from the train depending on what side you are on and what station elements might be blocking the suspended signs. Normally this is handled by station signage on the opposite walls; for whatever reason that wasn’t done at those stations. Of course that information is available on the trains themselves so it’s not a huge deal; still, most of us have probably not paid attention at some point in our transit travels and suddenly wondered where we were and if this was our station!
– not a huge fan of the blue and green color selection for the lines; they are visually very close together especially when a train is approaching from a distance. Yes, there are other ways to know what train that is, but the sign is there for a reason. (I’d also like to see the number designator added next to the color on train signs, understanding that the older Kinkisharyos are what they are regarding their signs.)
– the first evening they were terminating 2 Line trains at Northgate they made station announcements informing people of that (although the platform signs just said “trains arriving about every 12 minutes; no destination) – but the destination boards both inside and outside the trains still showed Lynnwood and there were more than a few people who were unaware at Northgate when they got shuffled off the train. No announcement was made on the train whatsoever. The next day the operator was great and made a detailed announcement at Roosevelt and again at Northgate.
– the first week or so 2 Line trains – at least when I was traveling – were not often on the 10 min schedule, sometimes considerably off. That seems to have improved quite a bit so I’ll put that down to teething pains.
Again – small-ish things; I’m happy to have the option to commute on the 2 Line now!
“ it is difficult, occasionally impossible, to see the station sign from the train depending on what side you are on and what station elements might be blocking the suspended signs.”
I too noticed that it is indeed hard to see the station names from the train windows. When Metro designed the DSTT, they put station names closer together on the platform. (Note that Metro also designed each DSTT with different colors and patterns for each station, while ST put the same square glass windows in every station for uniformity.) ST has a pretty picture for a portfolio bias as opposed to a bias to provide enough rider information. They probably thought more signage looks ugly.