Seafair Weekend & Ballard Link Update

52 Replies to “Seafair Weekend & Ballard Link Update”

1. Meanwhile, SDOT has “opened” the bus lanes on Rainier to general traffic during Seafair. Rainier Valley residents are getting increasingly tired of Seafair traffic and the lack of meaningful transportation management around the event.

   1. I went to seafair today and took the bus 50 westbound afterward. It took the bus an hour to get to Rainier Ave from 50th Ave.

      In real cities (Vancouver BC) they close regular traffic in the area immediately around the event and only allow special vehicles and buses through. It’s not a hard problem to solve

      1. I went today just for the afternoon (was downtown in the AM for a different event) – it took over an hour to get to Genesee Park from Westlake in the early afternoon. Coming back? After waiting 40 mins for the shuttle that was stuck in traffic (and I was in front of the shuttle line!) I opted to just walk back to the station. And I even tried to leave before the Blue Angels were done (I was mainly there for the hydros!) this was definitely not my first Seafair – and not the first one I’ve taken the shuttle – but definitely a very poor experience getting to and from the park.

      2. So while Seattle excelled at World Cup transit compared to some other host cities, we have those cities’ experience for Seafair.

   2. Meanwhile, SDOT has “opened” the bus lanes on Rainier to general traffic during Seafair.

      Wow, that is genuinely stupid. I guess the Mayor is more into firing her Police Chief (ACAB) than making the City work. I hiked our from my office on Friday to the I-90 overlook via the Mtn 2 Sound Greenway (through the Mt Baker Ridge tunnel). The Blues are not what they used to be back when they closed I-90.

      I looked at the SeaFair website to get the schedule and noted that they were providing a shuttle service from Columbia City. On my ride in in the morning (~8AM) I saw a lot of families using the 2 Line. None of them got off at Judkins Park to take the 7; I guess smoking crack on the bus and other obnoxious behavior isn’t family friendly. And, since the soccer ended the City has let Judkins Park sink into a homeless hell hole. There was a huge number getting on the WB train at Judkins Park which is something I never saw during the WC, That was strange?

      1. I went on Friday to Seafair and took the 7 back after discovering the shuttle was totally inadequate.

         I saw the readerboard signs at Genesee near Rainier saying the bus lanes were “open” but at least on Friday there were mostly being observed. In fact the 7 was totally the way to leave Seafair. Rainier was all backed up with cars and the 7 was sailing by in the NB bus lane. Only place it wasn’t observed was for a block or two south of I-90.

2. If it doesn’t go to ballard, don’t call it “ballard light rail”.

   Alternative: Build the bit from seattle center to ballard, and beef up the monorail. Better transfers for monorail -link than anything planned on new downtown tunnel.

   1. The Monorail doesn’t have the capacity and can’t get it without major construction to create a “folded dogbone” with a loop at each end for reversing.

   2. Or don’t build it at all if it just duplicates the monorail! It will double in cost by the time it’s built, provide no new high capacity links and add a new downtown tunnel that does nothing to improve system capacity or reliability, provides a terrible system transfer, and impacts the International District. There’s no political path forward once Link reaches Everett and Tacoma to come back to regional voters to extend the line from Seattle Center to peek into Ballard (with the terminal station at a Safeway half-a-mile from the pedestrian center of Ballard.) This is not a compromise, it’s a face-saving forever war.

   3. 14th & Market is in Ballard, but Mount Baker Station isn’t in Mount Baker.

   4. I think Psf is talking about how the first phase of Ballard Link ends at Seattle Center, which isn’t Ballard.

      I’m not sure it’s a fair comparison. Federal Way Link was called that even when the project was only to 272nd. Everett Link will probably still be called that even if the first phase is only to Mariner.

      1. My bad. But would Link just to Seattle Center literally be named Ballard Link? I don’t mean how people are calling it Ballard Link now, but when it’s up and running. Surely the official extension name will be Seattle Center, or LQA, or Uptown.

         1. ST probably hasn’t thought that far yet. It will doubtless come up with a buzzword-compliant name for the phase, maybe when it determines the final station names during late design.

         2. You’re right, Sam. The stub should own up to its own inadequacies. “Uptown Link” has a nice cachet. But don’t be surprised if it ends at Westlake for a decade or two first.

            Winter is coming, economically, even if the planet cooks during it.

         3. “Uptown Girl” can be its unofficial song.

         4. Mike, cool!

   5. What’s in a name? For ST, the name tends to be where they intend to put the project’s end station (except for the initial Central Link and East Link).

      Given how the end stations also have the highest boardings in an extension give some validity to the practice.

      A case could be need for calling Ballard Link something like Northwest Seattle Link, or Everett Link as Central Snohomish Link, or Tacoma Dome Link as Northeast Pierce Link.

      At this point, it seems rather academic except for Ballard Link. I’m expecting that when the new end station is determined, we will see the project become something like SLU Link or Smith Cove Link. I would personally just call it Northwest Link but I doubt that would happen.

      1. Ballard was the original purpose of the line, because it was Seattle’s largest regional center without Link in that quarter of the city. It was the Ballard and 45th activists that really got ST3 accelerated, because they argued that it should be now and they were willing to pay taxes for it. They convinced Mayor McGinn, although he changed the goal from Ballard-UDistrict to Ballard-downtown and added a streetcar study (Westlake Ave N). The suburban subareas didn’t want to be left out so they accelerated their projects too. That’s all what led to ST3 in 2016.

         “Everett Link”, “Tacoma Dome Link”, “Northgate Link”, etc, are just names of the construction projects. Operationally the public says north Link, south Link, Eastside, 2 Line, or a similar variation. Federal Way and Lynnwood are so prominent in people’s mind as the largest city on I-5 between Seattle. Tacoma, and Everett that those names hang on. It’s too early to guess what Ballard Link or Seattle Center Link will be called by the people who use it. ST has never offered official names for the in-operation corridors, so I doubt it will start.

         1. Right. Build ballard first.

            Throw a billion at the monorail with good transfers.

            Skip dstt2 for now. It makes everything worse for every rider, forever.

         2. Rebuilding the monorail to Link’s capacity would cost as much as a new elevated line, and would require an EIS assessment.

            It’s not us you have to convince, it’s the ST board. They’re not going to skip DSTT2. We’ve tried to convince them to for eight years and have gotten nowhere. It would take boardmembers suddenly changing their mind, new boardmembers being appointed, or city leaders pressuring them to. None of that is on the horizon.

         3. Mike has a point. We may be stuck with a century of deep stations and bad transfers and mostly longer total transit travel times — all for tens of billions of taxpayer money over 40 years and counting. All for a relatively small number of Alaska Junction residents to get a direct train to UW.

         4. Y’all are missing the point.

            It’s a slogan, with a simple, clear message.

            Build Ballard First.

            So long as dstt2 isn’t started, there is room to make it suck less.

         5. “It’s a slogan, with a simple, clear message. Build Ballard First.”

            It’s a slogan that sounds like a construction demand that can be ambiguous. The first use of it and the only sensible meaning is that ST should put its Ballard-Westlake starter line alternative first.

            The problem with just saying the slogan in the context of a SODO-Seattle Center phase is it sounds like building Ballard-Seattle Center first, which doesn’t make sense. That would replicate the problem in West Seattle Link, where people would have to transfer to the D to get downtown, when they could just take the D all the way from Ballard to downtown. Connecting to the Monorail doesn’t make sense because it would require relocating the Link station (how would you put it at the Space Needle, and what environmental impacts would it create? Would you have to tear down the Space Needle and rebuild it?), and the Monorail has nowhere near the capacity needed, and extending a 70-year old discontinued Monorail model south sounds like a non-starter. So if you’re going to say “Build Ballard First”, you need to at the same time clarify what that means, the Ballard-Westlake alternative.

3. I just had my first two nights of transit dreams. Just now I was on a bus going eastbound on NE 8th Street in Bellevue. I wanted to transfer to the 550 because it would turn left later. I pulled the cord for 130th but the next stop was 124th, so I called to the driver that I’d made a mistake and I wanted the next one. When we passed 124th I was going to pull the cord again, but out the window we were going over a freeway. “That’s odd, I thought we’d already passed 405 and 116th, and this is way high up like the viaduct in Vancouver.” The routes don’t do this of course but this was a dream. I’ve ridden Metro on 8th for 47 years now, at first the 226 to Northup Way, later the B to 124th, although I’d stopped doing it three years ago. The 253 used to turn left on 156th, but that was never my route.

   In yesterday’s dream I was in Germany about to go home. I’d forgotten to see what time my flight departs so I didn’t know if I’d get to the airport in time. (I’ve had this kind of dream a few times.) I couldn’t even remember which airport to go to. My first thought was Düsseldorf (the only one I’ve used) but I didn’t think it was that one. My second thought was Cologne. (I don’t know what Cologne uses for an airport or if it even has one separate from Düsseldorf’s.) I knew Düsseldorf has an S-Bahn to the airport because I’d ridden it, and the place I’d stayed was on the same line. I assumed Cologne must have something like that to the airport because it’s a larger city, but I didn’t know what it had. I couldn’t ask somebody in German because my German was somehow not working. I wasn’t sure if Cologne was the right airport either or I was in another part of the country.

   When I woke up I thought, how extraordinary. Of course I’d have memorized what time the flight would depart and what time I’d leave for the airport. I’d know which airport and transit route because it was the one I’d come in. I was surprised I couldn’t say anything in German: I guess I dream only in English.

   I may have had other transit dreams in the past, but the only thing I remember is a few monotonous moments of riding an Amtrak train or Greyhound bus overnight.

   1. I have transit dreams here and there. No nightmares though. Sometimes it’s dreaming about ST actually being successful and being able to travel around the region rapidly anywhere you want. Others is about the bare minimum… Buses being on time and fast and frequent.

4. I thought the Seafair hydrofoil races were only a few hours on a Sunday, and the Blue Angels was the only flight. I’ve never been to it, but once in the 80s I rode my bike to Rainier Beach and Lake Washington Blvd was closed so I had to go around it.

   This year it’s three days, with boats scheduled all three days and several other air shows in addition to the Blue Angels. Has it long been like that?

   I looked at the ticket price. $60.25. I’m definitely not paying that for hydrofoil races I don’t care much about or a few air shows. I have enough trouble thinking about paying $30 for a concert or sports event I’d want to see more.

   Added the Seafair link to the beginning of the article. It was supposed to be there but somehow it wasn’t.

   1. Yes. $60+ per person is outrageous!

      SeaFair may have reached a point where the price is going to dampen attendance so much that the public may just shun future air shows. It already has many haters. It’s a major hassle to reach.

      Is it that Boeing is no longer underwriting the event?

5. “Sound Transit, Seattle, and King County jointly released a South Downtown Hub framework report. This is a 99-page vision for the greater CID2 and Midtown station areas between Cherry Street, Royal Brougham, Alaskan Way, and I-5.”

   No amount of alluring renderings and colored maps can hide the fact that future 1 Line transfers will suck big time with the ST plans.

   1. When I skimmed the report, I didn’t see anything about the stations themselves. There can’t really be, since ST hasn’t made a final decision on what stations will be where yet. When I read it more closely I may find something about the stations or the Link project.

      I’m sure there will be a new art installation at each station, and a lot of announcements about it.

   2. There is vague musings about bus restructure after Link extensions. But they have already happened with ST2. Pierce County bus is more that 20 minutes after than Link. I would think the ST3 network would retain routes 101, 150, 124, 131, 132. Why do they think they could skinny up 4th Avenue South north of South Jackson Street?

6. August 1: the new traffic patterns on Denny are going into effect. Drivers will no longer be able to access I-5 via Yale Street and the 8 won’t have to fight with freeway traffic to cross I-5.

   On Thursday at about 645pm, I watched a flotilla of 3 bunched L8s pass southbound by Judkins Park Station. Hopefully that will be a thing of the past. And incidentally, only 1 passenger from the 3 buses got off at JPS.

7. Does Metro post detour maps anywhere? I find the text summary on their alert webpage hard to understand. For example, a bunch of routes are detoured today in different ways for Lake City Fest. Buses that normally share a path don’t, while buses that normally take different streets are together. And where I’m actually seeing buses driving doesn’t seem to match the partial list stops.

   For example, let’s say I want to get from Lake City to Seattle Children’s. Where can I catch both the 65 or 75? The 3 correct answers are 145th Street and 15th Ave, Lake City Way and 145th Street, and 35th Ave and 130th street. Maybe there are others? But good luck figuring any of it out from the alert on their site.

   1. I’ve never seen a detour map. Metro probably figures they’re too short-term for them. Yes, the technicalese stop list on the alerts page is the most definitive information, because that’s what the drivers use.

   2. NE 125th street farside Lake City way NE would be a common stop with eight trips per hour between the two routes. Metro does not offer that common pathway in the U District.

8. Question for everyone. Have you ever boarded a bus that started out or arrived mostly on-time, but then as the trip progressed, got further and further behind? If so, if you can remember, what were the causes of the bus getting progressively late? Did it seem, as one commenter here suggests often happens, that the bus driver seemingly did everything in their power to make the bus run late? Or, were outside factors involved in making the bus late, like getting stuck in traffic, etc?

   1. Usually it’s already late when I get on. When it becomes late while I’m on it, it’s because of an obvious cause: traffic jam, lane closure, bridge raising, bus breakdown, unruly passenger who won’t get off (the driver won’t move until the police come).

   2. Was taking the 7 from Columbia City to downtown a while back. The bus wound up 5-10 minutes behind the schedule in the app, mostly from traffic and some long stops for boarding and deboarding, plus a few folks asking the driver some questions. Consolidating stations would do wonders for the 7’s speed and reliabiloty imo.

   3. In my experience, buses that I am on become behind schedule for two main reasons. One is an obvious event, like traffic congestion. The other reason is, I’ll call it death by a thousand cuts, where a series of small events make the bus late. Example, driver needs to deploy the lift. Then misses traffic light. Then needs to use the lift again. Then misses another traffic light. Suddenly, the bus is more than a few minutes behind schedule. Then that lateness begins to snowball into increasing lateness throughout the trip, as it has to pick up and drop off more and more passengers.

      1. That is exactly how it often happens, to the letter. In San Francisco, on the trolley lines, it is acceptable for a driver in a leading bus of two within sight of each other on the same route to “give the thumb” to people waiting at a stop for which the leading bus has no stop request from a rider.

         The driver simply drives by and makes a “He’s OUT!” motion pointing back to the approaching bus.

         Since trolleys can’t pass one another easily, this helps diminish the problem that you described so well.

   4. For some reason, King County Metro does not seem to account much for traffic slowing down buses in the schedules, even if it happens every day. If there is traffic, the bus is late, even if the traffic is happens every day. I don’t understand this.

      I have never seen a bus driver make a bus late, although I have seen them start the route 5 minutes late pretty often. On some routes, if it’s near the beginning of the route, I can expect the bus to consistently be 5 minutes late, and then catch up to the published schedule later on.

      But typically when a bus is unusually late, the driver will develop a lead foot, alternatively slamming on the brakes and gas to try to catch up. It’s almost always other cars getting in the way that makes a bus late.

9. Regarding Sound Transit having to give away all of its surplus property for free for the creation of low-income housing, I did a little digging, and believe that just isn’t true.

   ST doesn’t have to give away all of its surplus land to low-income housing, just 80% of it. And even then, just 80% of that housing has to be low-income. And, at 80% of AMI. It’s called the 80-80-80 rule.

   So, my question is, is Sound Transit taking advantage of the remaining 20% of its surplus property, and creating revenue-generating projects from it? If so, what and where are those projects?

   1. 20% is pretty thin. Thinking of the surplus land around East Link, I don’t think you can subdivide the lots that small and still build anything worthwhile. I think this is a bad rule, because it priviledges housing over retail. Retail is the best way to use land near a station.

   2. Sound Transit has touted going much further beyond the 80% minimum.

10. Ballard in 2060?

    https://www.theurbanist.org/full-ballard-link-line-could-take-until-2060-to-build-sound-transit-says/?fbclid=Iwb21leATbeDFleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAwzNTA2ODU1MzE3MjgAAR65LNKUbDaYmTSPvRm8Qmz5np4mPtZeyYoCYyqr3ZjmxpI-JFi_NoLyvx4_Pg_aem_K5i5qyKoksQsODpKlBWGNw

    1. Alternate slogan.

       Link to Market before I (graduate|retire|die).
       Not very catchy, but 2060 is ludicrous.

    2. The biggest thing I fear is that if Link is delayed 24 years, its limbo state will discourage SDOT/Metro from upgrading bus service because “Link will save the day”. 24 years is a long time to wait, half a career life, and people’s interest in living in or shopping in Ballard will be artificially limited until transit is improved.

    3. Every Board member making decisions this year will be either mostly or entirely dead, or extremely feeble if they’re still alive.

       After watching the Board nonchalantly moving the end date of ST3, I think a pretty good case could be to set a maximum time limit to any transit capital funding.

       Meanwhile, ST still has not officially changed the West Seattle Link opening year of 2032. None of the Board members that made the decision to go ahead with the project dared to ask staff when it would actually open in the meeting.

       Tacoma Dome Link is already pushed to 2035 and there is no cable-stayed high bridge or deep boring tunnel with a deep station vault required.

       1. “ST still has not officially changed the West Seattle Link opening year of 2032. None of the Board members that made the decision to go ahead with the project dared to ask staff when it would actually open in the meeting.”

          It doesn’t matter that much. It’s useful to have a nominal date even if it’s unlikely. The alternative is no date at all, or postponing it to another date that sounds more certain but isn’t. It’s better to wait until there’s more certainty, then reset the date.

          The board vote was based on them wanting West Seattle Link regardless of date, and wanting it first.

11. the new et tdp shows that there will be no service improvements for 5 years until new funding is obtained in 2030, with its status quo plan of maxing out its local authority. and even then, only to get 25% more service hours by 2045. …that timeline wraps up 4 years after the evle is finished. brutal.

    since the tdp is supposed to reflect a future if consolidation doesnt happen, it probably should be assuming swift tax share (0.05% taken from et’s 0.6%, so that 0.55% is left over) continuing as is to not accidentally be financially misleading. notice the ending cash getting precarious after roughly factoring in that share

    yet again, more signs supporting that unifying the transit system in snoco would be fiscally, socially, and politically responsible. a combined system could easily beat that 25% increase, about several times over infact, in less than two years as opposed to twenty.

    it would be nice if someone on the blog could do a deep dive into the et-ct consolidation and maybe examine the frustrating effects of having an arbitrarily segmented transit network between funded and underfunded.

    1. What happens in 2030 to get new funding?

       ET could go to the legislature any year and ask permission to raise its sales-tax cap.

       However, with the merger pending, and any intelligent review concluding it’s the sensible next step, the legislature might say no until the merger issue is resolved one way or the other.

       As for an article, somebody might, but I don’t think we have any regular authors in Snohomish County or somebody willing to dig deep into ET’s issues or has the expertise to. A guest article by a Snohomish resident may be able to do it better.

12. Ballard Link cost savings, anyone? What is the rational for the Smith Cove Station: All those Expedia commuters? Seasonal cruise ship passengers? Please advise.

    1. The best way that many of us think would save money on the project is to change the rail technology to an automated rail system that comes much more frequently. Platforms can be shorter. Rail designers have more flexibility in reducing underground station vault sizes and track vertical profiles (fewer steps). When operating, waiting could drop in half.

       Smith Cove Station would provide a RapidRide D transfer.

       ST still has not released the revised EIS for Ballard. It’s way overdue. It should disclose how many riders are coming from bus routes. The draft a few years ago said 23 percent but Smith Cove was not the end station in that report.

       https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/documents/west-seattle-and-ballard-link-extensions-station-planning-progress-report-smith-cove.pdf

       No Board member is publicly requesting a presentation and review of forecasted ridership of any planned extension. They generally make decisions based on costs and several other reasons — but not ridership.

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