First-drop election results after the headlines.
Service changes are coming at the end of August! Summary articles are in the works.
Headlines:
- Op-Ed: Federal Transportation Policy Is Growing Unhinged Under Trump (The Urbanist)
- Full Ballard Link Line Could Take Until 2060 To Build, Sound Transit Says (The Urbanist); Seattle Subway’s response.
- The Builder’s Remedy Looks To Be Coming to Bainbridge Island (The Urbanist)
- Seattle Council Reins In Growth Plan Appeals in Narrow Vote (The Urbanist)
- Impending Metro Service Changes See Last-Minute Pushback in Lake Forest Park (The Urbanist).
- PubliCola introduces new comparison commentary column “Greater Seattle” (PubliCola)
- In California, Some Cities Are Done With Drive-Throughs (The New York Times, gift link)
- Seattle office building turns into apartments. Here’s how it looks (The Seattle Times, $; free via SPL)
- Bellevue adds “Bellevue Light Rail Shuttle” on top of its existing BellHop app-taxi shuttle (Visit Bellevue). Coverage by The Seattle Times ($)
- “August Adventures” accessible via Community Transit (CT News)
- Pierce Transit to run a special express service to the Washington State Fair, Sept. 4-27 (What’s New)
EDIT, 11:30am: Election Results have been moved to a new post.
This is an Open Thread. Election results should be discussed in comments on that post.
Sound Transit is trying hard to communicate to passengers during planned and unplanned Link outages. During planned outages it has surprisingly large an army of staff at station entrances to tell people where to board a shuttle and where Link is running — more than any other transit outage gets. It has been working on communication during unplanned outages and preparing for ever-more contingencies. Yet there’s always a disconnect, and a lot of passengers fall through the cracks. I’m wondering what exactly is breaking down in the communication efforts.
I have been at Link stations during outages, and the destination displays and audio announcements either don’t mention the problem, have inaccurate or implausable next arrivals (5 minutes but it never shows up, or 40 minutes or hours when that should never be), or just say something is wrong without specifics or when we’ll hear an update, or you can’t understand it over people talking or the driver’s voice is muffled, or it says to visit ST alerts webpage when it should be ST telling us, not forcing us to look it up on a phone. So there’s vast room for improvement there.
Even with all the efforts in the world there are always some passengers who don’t realize what’s going on. There are always first-time riders, or riders with limited English. So it will never reach everybody. But it definitely should reach more people.
In-person staff is always the best way to inform people of disruptions. This is why security officers are required to assist in wayfinding when something goes wrong – planned or unplanned.
The real improvement needs to be in digital communication, whether it be via text, online or station monitors. ST relies on automated templates where free-forming is very limited. Sometimes this results in partial or vague information. An example is “service is suspended until further notice” What the eff does that supposed to mean? It’s not helpful not does it iINFORM or INSTRUCT riders how to get where they need to go.
Lake Forest Park is finally realizing what we’ve been saying for years here: S3 is a bad design and makes the network significantly worse.
They should be complaining to Sound Transit.
Lake Forest Park’s objection is too little, too late. The 522/future S3 is moving to Shoreline South station because ST thought Lake Forest Park, Kenmore, Bothell, and Woodinville wanted it to. They all assumed that would get to downtown Seattle faster than using Roosevelt station. Lake Forest Park raised no objection when ST reaffirmed 145th station (instead of 130th and 155th) and moved it to 148th (instead of straddling 145th with entrances on both sides). and when Metro proposed and approved truncating the 372 at 145th (renaming it to 72). We knew about the street-crossing transfer then and tried to get Metro to do something about it, but nobody else spoke up about it, not Lake Forest Park. Lake Forest Park’s only objection was BAT lanes on part of the S3’s route. That can be seen as being concerned only for car drivers, not for transit passengers who might want to go to Lake City or Roosevelt or have a better transfer. Now suddenly, months after ST and Metro approved their final plans, and just one month before implementation, Lake Forest Park suddenly realizes it’s losing 372 service and will have bad transfers. It should have raised those objections when ST and Metro were planning the routes and asked for feedback on their proposals. Private citizens can be excused for not realizing what’s going on or not knowing what to do about it, but the city government is supposed to be knowledgeable about these matters and advocate for their residents’ mobility needs — all mobility modes, not just car drivers.
Yes, the network horse is out of the barn. Stride3 and Route 522 are fixed on their west ends. Stride3 and Route 522 could still be improved by changing their east ends; all trips should extend to Woodinville, a real place in the ST district with an established layover, multifamily housing, retail, and other transit connections. For Stride3, a few more BEB would be required.
The LFP council did object during their briefing on LLC by Metro staff. They did send a letter during the ordinance process.
The Metro network could be much better even with the ST alignment. Will the upset be enough for the elected officials to ask Transit to change it? I hope so. There are many flaws in the network; RossB has covered the issues.
I expect Transit staff would recommend that LFP riders oriented to the UW either take Link via South Shoreline or transfer between routes 522 and 72 on NE 145th Street at 30th Avenue NE; Route 65 is also available there.
@Mike. I’m a member of the LFP city council, but am speaking for myself. We flagged the 72/522 transfer issue to Metro for multiple years. We wrote letters and testified at county council meetings. But it was only now that we got substantial buy-in from neighbors with the furrent letter. Our pleas over the last few years were unfortunately ignored by Metro.
The adherence to what was called “representative alignments” in ST3 is part of the problem. The corridor was defined politically without input from the riders on the route nor productivity metrics. It was chosen by a handful of elected officials at the time looking at a map with lines on it. It never got the bigger picture scrutiny that most transit projects get.
I always read the alignment subtext as a way to get 145th and other roads improved with transit dollars. There is also the issue that the project is an East King Subarea project and Lake City is in North King.
It’s just one more way that ST3 was developed. There was a rush to the ballot and cities thinking that they knew best. The strategy was “successful” as it got passed, but it’s really hard to get the Board to now consider any adjustments to the project concepts from 2016. And no Board member even today suggests that any performance measure be involved in spending those funds. When will more elected officials hammer ST about ridership usage, travel time differences and transfer difficulty?
The adherence to what was called “representative alignments” in ST3 is part of the problem.
Absolutely. Not only was the choice of projects arbitrary but they were chosen with very little information. Cost is a big factor with just about every project. If I can buy a good electric bike for a couple hundred dollars I am buying it for my commute. If it costs two grand I just ride my regular bike. In this analogy a lot of these projects cost twenty grand.
Wait until those representative alignments on more of ST3 get locked in place because they’ve been planning based on them for 8-10 years. Now we are stuck with the duplicative route by Mercer Slough, transfer at the abysmal East Main, and a station for Factoria north of I-90.
“Our concern is that, taken together, Metro’s and Sound Transit’s changes will leave riders with worse service.”
Well, duh. We’ve been telling them that for a very long time.
Lake Forest Park’s objection is too little, too late. The 522/future S3 is moving to Shoreline South station because ST thought Lake Forest Park, Kenmore, Bothell, and Woodinville wanted it to.
I agree. They didn’t think through the network ramifications and nobody explained it to them. There are really two different issues:
1) Metro has been running the 372 for years despite the fact that it is not cost effective north of 145th. It spends a lot of time duplicating the 522.
2) The 522 is going to 145th. Thus the northern suburbs go from having two buses connecting them to Lake City to none. They go from having a one-seat ride to the U-Village to a three-seat ride. The trip to the UW itself goes from a one-seat ride to a two-seat ride (involving Link). This wouldn’t be that bad if the UW station was in the middle of campus but it isn’t.
Of course the timing is terrible. Metro should have truncated the 372 once the 522 became frequent (with Northgate Link). Then they could have sent it to 148th with Lynnwood Link. Then riders could see the problem with sending the 522 (and Stride 3) to 148th Station.
But there really isn’t much Metro can do at this point. Sure, they could run an extra bus up to Kenmore. But why duplicate service along the corridor just so a relative handful of riders can avoid a transfer? It isn’t worth it. There are a lot of flaws with the Metro routing — service levels in Lake Forest Park isn’t one of them.
Routes 522 and 372 were complementary in fall 2002 and until fall 2021. In 2021, ST should have made Route 522 even more frequent than they did and not relied on Metro Route 322. Before 2021, ST grew too focused on one-way peak service.
I’ve been commuting from Bothell to UW Seattle for more than 30 years. The 372 has gone through some route changes in the U District, but it was a reasonably easy commute as an express bus. As Metro increased frequency over the years, it also added more stops, slowing down the commute and thinning out the commuters north of 145th. Instead of returning the route to an express, we are deleting it and ignoring commuters north of 145th. You speak of a “relative handful of commuters”—our numbers are small compared to the hordes that board the 372 in the U Village area, but there are many UW employees making that commute. Morning commute buses run every 15 minutes, and they are half full by 145th. Returning to less frequent express buses would make total sense. But, no, the push to put everyone on light rail, even when it results in poorer commuter experiences, continues.
Before the pandemic both agencies were heavily focused on peak service, for good reason. There were a huge number of riders along the SR-522 corridor heading to downtown. Buses came every couple minutes. But outside of peak it was a different story. As is typical, ridership goes way down in the suburbs midday. The 522 ran every half hour midday while the 372 was more frequent (although the 372 ended in Lake City on weekends). At that point they were relatively complementary. If you were headed downtown you took the 522. If you were headed to the UW you took the 372. If you were just going along the corridor you could take either bus but chances are you would take the 372 (unless it was the weekend).
Then the pandemic hit. Peak ridership plummeted (and never returned). Northgate Link opened. With Northgate Link the 522 was truncated at Roosevelt and it ran every fifteen minutes. At that point the routes were a lot less complementary. If you were headed to the UW you could take the 522 and transfer (rather than wait for the 372). If you were headed downtown you had to transfer to Link with either bus. More to the point, it came with a big shift in service. The old 522 only ran every half hour. It spent a lot of its time getting downtown. Now the 522 runs every 15 minutes and spends most of its time north of Seattle. This is an improvement in a lot of ways but it also means that it is spending a lot of its time doubling up service with the 372 (on weekdays) on the least productive section. It is essentially a “reverse branch”. The area with less density (in the suburbs) has twice the service while the more urban area (in Seattle) has less. This is an obvious flaw (an anti-pattern if you will).
This has persisted since Northgate Link. The 522 should have gone to the U-District. Either way, the 372 should have stopped going north of Seattle once the 522 started running every fifteen minutes (midday). It should have either ended at Fred Meyer or at 145th & 15th (where the old 73 used to layover). At that point riders would have got a clear view of the future. The 372 would no longer be an option for getting from the northern suburbs to Seattle. ST would provide that connection. Riders would then debate the merits of a route to 148th Station or a bus directly to the U-District (or at worst, Roosevelt). But instead they assumed that the 372 was the option for trips to Lake City and the UW. It would be like the old days (but with a lot more service): the ST bus (Stride 3) would be for riders heading downtown while the 372 is for riders heading UW. Given that, I can understand why riders wanted the Stride bus to go to 148th (might as well). It doesn’t excuse the very poor routing of Stride 3 (riders shouldn’t be given the ability to choose an option that is terrible for a future network) but it explains it. If I was a typical rider in Kenmore I would have chosen the 148th option only to feel screwed over by Metro (at this point).
To quote Cool Hand Luke: What we’ve got here is a failure to communicate. The two agencies didn’t communicate with each other nor with the public. Oops.
The Seattle Subway commentary on Link to Ballard succinctly lays bare the opening date, station/ track design and cost savings skepticism around Link and ST3 inside Seattle.
As a Ballard resident, if we’re not gonna have Link until after everyone on the STB is dead, then I must advocate for:
1) a new 40 that is truncated at Holman Rd
2) a peak-hour express 40 that either goes along 15th Ave or Aurora
3) a peak-hour express D-Line (formally the 15X)
4) expand the maritime bridge restriction to 3p-7p.
Also staging extra buses in the Denny Triangle during heavy PM congestion so they can begin their route at Westlake & Denny. This will relieve crowding and improve reliability further down the line. These extra buses can turn back after Market St .
1) What about the section between Holman Road and Northgate?
2) Like the old 18 I assume.
3) Yeah, they should resurrect that bus.
4) Absolutely. We should push for that as it (theoretically) doesn’t cost a dime and yet would make a big difference. I don’t see the current administration doing that (simply out of spite) but hopefully the next one would (or the Coast Guard is independent enough that it doesn’t matter).
Also staging extra buses in the Denny Triangle during heavy PM congestion
I think the 15 and 18 buses will relieve crowding. That is the point of them, really. (They also benefit riders but that is essentially a side effect which is why they never ran those buses all-day).
It has been my experience that the 40 is divided into 4 types of riders. They use it to travel between:
1) Northgate and Aurora/Greenwood
2) Aurora/Greenwood and Ballard (anywhere between Holman and Market St)
3) Ballard/Fremont and downtown/SLU
The highest ridership is between downtown/SLU and Ballard. The bus really thins out after 65th St. In a fantasy world, I want to see the 40 split into two routes: Lake City-Northgate-Ballard and Ballard-Fremont-Downtown
** 3 types of riders
Yeah, sure. I’m just trying to wrap my head around your proposal. There are a number of different options but some route has to serve Northgate Way and 105th west of Meridian. It doesn’t have to be the 40. Personally I would do the following:
1) Extend the D to Northgate via the 40 pathway.
2) Extend the 61 to the Ballard Locks via the 85th, 24th NW and Market.
3) Have the 40 turn west at 85th (not east) and layover with the 45.
Ideally we would also:
4) Extend the 8 to Smith Cove. You would need a new layover/turnaround spot. Run it a lot more often (e. g. every ten minutes midday). Then the D could stay on 15th and thus get to downtown much faster.
The button-hook tail of the D (replacing the button-hook tail of the 40) is still awkward. Ideally the bus just keeps going on Northgate Way to Lake City. But Northgate Station is too big a connection point to skip. It is a shame that Sound Transit didn’t put a station on Northgate Way but we are stuck with this awkward location for a station and thus awkward routes serving it.
@ Ross… indeed, a route would be kept between Northgate. I kinda had your 61-idea already in mind/. But instead of using 85th, the route would replace the 40 between Northgate and Ballard via Holman and still use 24th Ave. There would be overlap along 24th Ave but it’s necessary because riders along 24th need to be connected to Holman, Greenwood and Aurora.
Extending the D to Northgate, however, would be a nightmare for the route’s reliability. The only true benefit would be giving 15th Ave riders a one-seat ride to Greenwood/Aurora/Northgate.
I think Metro probably should introduce another route that doesn’t go all the way to Downtown Seattle (or not even south of Ship Canal) to replace northern portion of 40.
There are probably very very few people who take 40 from South of Ship canal to north of Crown Hill. There are other one- or two-seat ride options that are not worse than 40. 40 can just end somewhere near 15th St NW at NW 85th.
Here is my thinking (step by step):
1) Whenever possible, buses should keep going straight.
2) The more connections you can make with other buses the better.
3) The layover of the D is poor. It misses the connection with the 5, E and Link.
Thus from an abstract standpoint, the 40 should just keep going on 85th and absorb the 61. The D should then take over the current tail of the D. The routes have fewer turns and a lot more connections.
4) Now the 40 is too long. It needs to be split. Since the bus goes far to the west and then back east it makes sense to split in Ballard. Not only is this a good separation point from a geographic standpoint but Ballard is a big destination.
5) Splitting involves trade-offs. You can overlap on 24th or send both buses to either Sunset Hill or the Locks. I prefer the overlap but I can see why others prefer a more efficient system.
I don’t think the D is then too long. Remember, the D used to be combined with the C. People complained but that was mostly West Seattle riders who had big delays because of the bridge opening. The D would be much shorter than the old C/D combination. It would also be shorter than the existing 40. Thus the riders who suffer most from a long route (e. g. Holman Road to Aurora) would actually come out ahead. Not only is the D shorter but the Ballard Bridge opens less often than the Fremont Bridge (i. e. the southern part of the D is more reliable than the southern part of the 40). This could delay riders heading towards downtown but not by a huge amount (and no worse than the riders of the 40 are delayed when they are heading downtown). Instead of one really big route (the 40) a medium size route (the D) and a small route (the 61) you would have three medium size routes. This is better.
I think Metro probably should introduce another route that doesn’t go all the way to Downtown Seattle (or not even south of Ship Canal) to replace northern portion of 40.
Yes, except you are better off doing what I suggested. The northern tail of the 40 is awkward, but necessary. It ends in the middle of the city, limiting its usefulness. You could extend that section to Lake City but then getting from Lake City to Ballard involves going back and forth quite a bit. It is a major detour for people trying to get from Northgate or Lake City to Ballard. Since that northern tail is so awkward it might as well be tacked onto the end of a route. Right now it is tacked onto the 40 but tacking it onto the D has the advantages I mentioned.
In contrast an extended 61 is far more useful. The extended 61 is a straightforward route — it is always going the same basic direction. There are no detours while you go to the eastern and western ends of the system, thus connecting to every north-south route. Again, things would be very different if there was a station on Northgate Way, but there isn’t.
I agree with the expansion of the maritime exclusion running from 3 to 7. I also like HZ’s general idea. It insulates the radial lines from the traffic jams around Northgate and the very long running time between there and the south end of downtown. And so far as Ross’s analysis, it seems to me that 24th is enough of a developed arterial that overlapping is a good idea. I very much agree with his assessment of and extended 61; it will be much quicker between north Ballard and Northgate than the Holman Road route of the extended D.
Maybe turn the “new 61” east to lay over at 14th and Market or even down at 14th and Leary, which is a growing hotspot.
Once the bus gets to 24th & Market I figure it should find the quickest layover. I tend to pick existing layover locations when considering restructures. But if there was a layover in Old Ballard then that would be ideal.
By the way, this just shows how poorly thought out the expansion is. West Seattle Link should not be the next project. Nor should a second tunnel. Ending at Uptown means that the buses can’t really take advantage of this restructure.
This is what I mean by that: Imagine the dust settles decades from now. West Seattle Link is finally connected to downtown (and Uptown). What does Metro do? Truncate a few buses. Some riders come out ahead. A lot of riders come out behind (because they have to transfer). Nothing much else happens. The Queen Anne buses aren’t to end at Uptown anymore than the West Seattle (and south end) buses don’t end at SoDo. They continue to downtown like they’ve always done. Same with the D. You’ve spent a lot of money and from a network standpoint have very little to show for it.
Now imagine instead they build a line from Interbay to Westlake. This would be done much sooner. You avoid the costly bridge crossing (for now). It would be automated (of course). In Magnolia you send the buses to Dravus and then to the UW. Thus getting to the second biggest destination in the area is much better. The D skips Uptown. It follows the faster route of the 15, all day long. Riders who want to go to Uptown just transfer to the frequent train. The vast majority of riders have a significantly faster way to get downtown from Ballard (all day long). A peak-only (or even all-day) 18 is quite reasonable.
ST basically just ignored the existing and potential transit network while the scribbled lines on the map. Oops.
The pitch in 2016 was to open West Seattle first because it took less time to build because it was to be all above ground. Then the bored tunnel was only supposed to get built if additional funds were raised. Then it became the baseline project.
Also, the segment from Alaska Junction to Delridge Station was about the same cost as going from Delridge to SODO (which includes a more expensive, signature high bridge). That may be lower now but I expect it’s not much when broken down by segment.
Notably, the Seattle Subway op-ed calls out ST for not providing new opening dates as they see that the promised opening dates that ST currently publishes appear unreasonable.
“2) a peak-hour express 40 that either goes along 15th Ave or Aurora”
That would be nice to bring back 18.
Current 40 to me is a route to get from Downtown to Fremont or Fremont to Ballard and North Seattle. It is not a route for anyone to get from Downtown to Ballard west of 15th St NW even with all the Route 40 improvements in place. Between Downtown and Fremont, 62 via Dexter Ave is even faster than 40 because the bus lane practically fix nothing at Westlake Ave at Fremont Bridge.
On Tuesday I took a detour on my way to work getting off at DT Bellevue and walking up to the Library to drop off my ballot. There was a table set up on street level at the station promoting the new Light Rail Shuttle. I asked the person staffing the table if the small brochure had a route map and was told yes. Well, not really. It did have a coverage area which is all of DT extending south to East Main Station and east to include Wilburton and Spring District Stations. From what I can tell though you will only be able to board a shuttle from the DT Bellevue Station. There doesn’t appear to be any fixed route which would be consistent with the tiny vehicles used for this service. Given that there are no “stops” or schedule or app it would appear that getting back from your destination to Link you’re on your own. A regular circulator route would be far more useful.
It does not seem to handle trips to Link, only trips away from Link. I doubt the vehicles can handle wheelchairs. Someone has money to burn.
The motivation may be crowd capacity rather than a two-way shuttle as we normally think of it. People get off Link all at once, but they arrive one by one. If there’s a crowd getting off looking for a way to get to downtown Bellevue destinations, and the BellHop doesn’t have enough seats or can’t meet enough trains, then a capacity relief service could be one way to deal with it.
It does leave people without a reciprocal way to get back to the station. They’d have to summon BelHop, use another bus route, walk, or get dropped off at the station. The shuttle driver would repeatedly get questions on to get back to the station and would have to keep explaining it. Or if the driver hasn’t been trained on that, they might say “I don’t know” and leave it to them to find something.
Not seeing a minivan doing much for crowd capacity. It’s not going to be sufficient to handle commuters that surge around 9AM. It’s not going to be able to handle groups which is a large number of “after hours” trips to the DT Bellevue Station. It’s unclear where the vehicles are going to wait without impacting traffic on 110th and in/out of the Transit Center. Ignoring the problem of visibility, it could intercept traffic before DT. Problem with East of Nowhere is there’s not a pickup point on the west side of the road. I think there is a 3 minute load/unload area with enough space for 2 or three vehicles. And then you’d have to pull a U-turn to get pointed back toward town. Wilburton is actually pretty good with a large kiss and ride area. Spring District could also work if the pull out spots were adjusted and the business towers adjacent to the station were willing to help. But none of this is going to be popular if there’s no way to get back to Link. This just seems like a waste of money. You’re paying a driver, and labor is a huge cost input to spend more time waiting or deadheading than moving a very small number of people when actually “in service”. IIRC, I read somewhere on the website that although it was free you had to show (maybe not scan) an ORCA card? The money would be better spent creating a controlled Lift/Uber free ride zone assuming drivers had portable ORCA scanners. And this does nothing for people using a credit card tap to pay.
Bellhop is the worst operation I’ve seen. It has zero capacity. It can never find you a ride, and says it experiencing a busy period and cancels your request. Once it does process your request you’ll wait 45 minutes and watch the time until arrival increase so after 20 minutes of waiting it will say its arriving in 40 minutes. Good luck planning any trip around this. A fixed route downtown shuttle would make way more sense than these ill thought out free on demand shuttles that require an app, incredible patience and max out on capacity after 8 people use the system at once.
I see it driving around DT quiet often. I rarely see it with any passengers on board… hmmm?
I actually see them almost full quite a few times, I think it depends where you and I saw them.
I see them mostly around Spring District. I rarely venture into DT Bellevue unless I have to. I don’t have a smart phone and refuse to spend the ginormous amount of money on something that’s a crappy phone and an even worse computer. But I’m about ready to break down and put a SIM chip in my tablet so I don’t have to worry about the hot spot connection to my flip phone. The route that would matter to me is NE 8th to the Square/Mall/”Collection”. The library would be nice but a shuttle route from Wilburton might make more sense than trying to torture a DT STation circulator to cover it. Overlapping loops could be very effective at covering the area the Link Shuttle is trying (very poorly) to serve.
“The library would be nice but a shuttle route from Wilburton might make more sense than trying to torture a DT STation circulator to cover it.”
The 550 terminates at the library. The 556 might keep that pattern.
Does it? On my way back from dropping off my ballot I saw a 550 (I think) waiting to go into service. I contemplated asking if I could board. By the time I got back to the TC no bus had passed so it would have been a loser anyway vs walking. I would have to look but I certainly didn’t see a 550 stop on my walk.
FWIW, the sidewalk from BTC to the library sucks rocks. At one point you have to hike up stairs, no ADA ramp, and at the north end the slope is way steeper than what ADA specs. There’s room to fix this at both ends but Bellevue doesn’t consider walking a mode of transportation. But you are guarantee a spot in the parking garage.
>>The 550 terminates at the library.
Does it?
Yes. You can see it on Google Maps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZXPXZuPdZ1JPsSps9. You can see it on the schedule as well: https://www.soundtransit.org/ride-with-us/routes-schedules/550
“The library would be nice but a shuttle route from Wilburton might make more sense than trying to torture a DT STation circulator to cover it.”
226/250 also serves it at least on one direction. I think it is more of problem for places like Old Bellevue and Bellevue Square. After this fall’s service change, 270 won’t even have a stop at the block of Bellevue Square. That’s why I think some kind of short fixed-route shuttle run by BellHop type of fleet can work somewhere within Downtown Bellevue.
The problem is exactly why micro transit, in general, is so unscalable. It works great when you’re the only person using it, but as soon as others start using it too, reliability breaks down very quickly.
Of course, in theory, Bellhop could force it to be scalable by adding a lot more vans, but the cost per van, relative to the number of passengers it carries is very high, and money is not infinite.
And why would you think micro transit is the answer in the one of Washington’s largest cities; arguably the second most dense urban core. This isn’t Wenatchee. What’s sad is that “they” are trying and spending a <strike)boatload train load of private/public dollars on something that is stupid. The tin foil hat conspiracy me says this is to “prove” that public transit is a failure. And if it was COB I could believe it; a City Council that still believes transit is so the roads will be freed up for me to drive. But Amazon is the sugar daddy here. Amazon knows a thing or plenty about routing and logistics. Apply the algorithm to Link passengers as a “package” delivered to the most common DT Bellevue locations and optimum circulatory route solved. Money left over to hand out sandwiches with artificial cheese to each rider.
“This isn’t Wenatchee.”
Wenatchee actually has a really nice network of fairly frequent full-sized buses. And they are free. Bellevue wishes they were Wenatchee. And so does Tacoma.
If only Bellevue wasn’t aversive to actual buses and bus lanes.
S Bellevue Way should be a bus way, and the downtown grid should have a bunch of buses.
I found a FAQ. I don’t see anything about having to show ORCA.
“How do I get back to the Light Rail station?”
“Please book a FREE ride on a Bellhop. The Bellevue Light Rail Shuttle does not provide return trips to the Downtown Bellevue Light Rail Station. For the Bellhop service riders need to download the Ride Circuit app and book an on-demand ride.”
“What if there isn’t a shuttle in the staging area?”
“The shuttles are circulating and dropping off other riders. Please be patient and another shuttle will come to the staging area within 10 – 15 minutes.”
That’s a long time to wait for a last-mile connection. It’s like transferring to another bus route. Only one would hope the next bus segment would be several miles so that the wait isn’t such a large part of the trip. That doesn’t work with a shuttle that goes only around downtown Bellevue.
Yep, you nailed it. Complete Fail. Nobody is going to use this if there isn’t a shuttle waiting when they get there. How many people are waiting for the next shuttle and where is the back of the line. You wait 15 minutes and someone else walks up from the platform and takes “your” ride. It would be hard to design anything worse. Just putting the $$$ into Bellhop to maybe make that work would have been a better investment. But yeah, there really needs to be a fixed route circulator before any of these glitz, oh look.. it’s an EV “services”.
I may have read that in the brochure I picked up at the table on Tuesday. It’s at work so I won’t be able to check until Friday. The whole thing is just; badly thought out, poorly advertised and pretty much a total waste since it’s a one way trip. Maybe they just should use Lincoln Town Cars and put people in the trunk for a one way trip to Meydenbauer Bay ;->
How about bulldozing the pedestrian walkways between the BTC and Bellevue Square and running Hop vehicles back/forth every 5 minutes??
Pedestrian walkways are important. And HOP serves many other destinations around DT Bellevue too.
That said, almost every trip served by hop is shorter enough to be less than a 15-20 minute walk. Including wait time, walking is usually faster than riding it. Even if hop disappeared tomorrow, nobody except the mobility-challenged would be worse off.
Great idea in my opinion.
There is probably enough space to build two-way super narrow lane for specialized shuttle vehicle while still having sidewalk on each side. Autonomous vehicle tech company can test their drive-less shuttle however they want there. 20 mph top speed is good enough there.
Nothing from the T-Dome with it’s always vacant parking stalls. So, even if the Spine was developed from it’s embryonic state I still couldn’t get thay’ar from Hey’ar. With all the emphasis Pierce members of the ST board have put on the Link connection to the T-Dome it seems they have a disconnect with PT operations.
I’ve never been to the fair but isn’t it near the Puyallup Sounder station? I think Sounder has had runs for the fair on certain days. It looks like it’s ten blocks south of the station on Google Maps. The 578 gets a few blocks closer. PT 400 and 402 are on Meridian Ave, which seems to be right at one of the entrances at 9th Ave SE. The 400 goes to Tacoma Dome, and the 402 to Federal Way. So the fair express is for areas that don’t have other transit to the fair. And if you’re a Pierce resident with a car, you can go to any of the P&Rs.
@Mike, Using Sounder is an interesting idea. Google Maps says it’s only a 3-4 minute walk to the fair grounds. It would be really fun to take the train to the fair. Problem is, you want to go on a Friday or Saturday night. If you could leave early on a Friday it could get you there. Growing up in Lakewood I love the Fair; but not enough to hang around until Monday morning for a return trip. If they ran a Saturday excursion train I might bite.
The Sounder station though has a ginormous P&R that would be empty unless other fair goers already know about it and are poaching all the spots.
Correction. My Google maps direction was set to “drive”. It’s a 15 minute walk not 3-4. That’s actually good since parking might actually be available early on a Saturday evening. Still, my original point was Pierce ST board members are pushing hard for the T-Dome Link; and I happen to agree with that goal. I get that the PT shuttle is geared toward county residents. But the Puyallup (do it at a trot, do it at a gallup, just don’t take transit) is a regional event and Tacoma/Pierce want to bring in tourist $$$; and have done a good job with DT Tacoma. It seems like a missed opportunity to not run a shuttle from the T-Dome. It would really help the Tacoma residents that have access to T-Link and promote “the Spine”. It would be legit to park there and take a Fair shuttle. Poaching parking at the Sounder Station is a grey area during a period when trains aren’t running.
I would not stress using Sounder and take PT 402 from Federal Way Link. It stops at the Fairgrounds and runs on weekends too. The frequency is sad but it’s doable.
That misses the point. This is a choice trip. I could easily drive and have many many times. It’s not “fun”. Traffic is terrible near the fair and parking is expensive. I’m looking for an excuse to ride the train… the bus, not so much. But if I have to drive then parking a 15 minute away walk for free it wouldn’t be so bad as I can then make my own schedule. Drive an hour just to take a bus and then worry about it’s return schedule; not going to happen.
“Traffic is terrible near the fair…”
I have to wonder how reliable PT 402 arrival times would be. Of course, Link has great frequency and excellent reliability so that part of the trip should work fine. It’s just that it would be about a 2 hour journey in total each way. Although there’s places near Federal Way Link that could be intermediate destinations like TJ’s or one of about 20 restaurants.
You could take Sounder to it on one of the Sounder fair days (I think these have occurred), then if you miss Sounder coming back, you can take the 578 or 402 or 400. The 578 stops at Federal Way, so if you love Link you can transfer to it the rest of the way.
According to Google AI Overview:
Sound Transit occasionally operates special weekend Sounder train service to the Washington State Fair in Puyallup on select peak days, allowing riders to bypass highway traffic and parking.
Service Overview
Route Coverage: Special fair trains typically run from Everett down to Puyallup, stopping at major stations along the S Line and N Line (including Seattle, Tukwila, Kent, Auburn, and Sumner).
Connections: A free Pierce Transit shuttle connects the Puyallup Sounder Station directly to an exclusive fairgate entrance.
Schedules: Dates and timetables vary each year depending on the official fair calendar (traditionally offered on one or two peak Saturdays or weekends during the run).
Tips for Riders
Check the Sound Transit Events Calendar ahead of the fair season for exact operational dates, precise train departure times, and fare information.
Standard Sound Transit fares apply, and you can pay using an ORCA card or the Transit GO Ticket app.
This would be really fun. Walk to Link, transfer to Sounder, VIP shuttle to the fair, repeat in reverse order. Except I’d probably walk if getting close to the return departure time for Sounder so I don’t miss it waiting for the shuttle or getting stuck in traffic. So far though nothing on the ST events calendar :-(
@Al — Link is an option if you are coming from the north. But it doesn’t make sense if you are coming from Pierce County.
In contrast Sounder could be a good option from any of the stations including the Tacoma Dome and Lakewood. I could see the State Fair Express complementing Sounder from Lakewood. You time the trip on Sounder in the morning but when coming back you have more flexibility, since the bus runs every half hour. The problem is, that doesn’t work for Tacoma (that is Bernie’s point). The 400 is an option but it doesn’t run that often, that late, or on weekends.
I mention Link as FWLE opened last December. It wasn’t open during the State Fair last year.
I mention Link as FWLE opened last December. It wasn’t open during the State Fair last year.
Yeah, I’m just saying that has nothing do to with the issue Bernie raised (or the bus he referred to). Accessing the fair from the north is a very different issue. We won’t know all the options for a while. In contrast, Pierce Transit has already announced a very good option for those trying to get to the fair from Lakewood (it is a shame it doesn’t also serve Tacoma).
If there’s one run from Everett to Lakewood in the morning for going to the fair, and a reverse run in the afternoon for returning, you won’t be able to take it from Lakewood or Tacoma to the fair.
If there’s one run from Everett to Lakewood in the morning for going to the fair…
My guess is they will run extra trains to the fair.
I now see the issue. The Pierce Transit State Fair uses SR 512 and skips Downtown Tacoma and Tacoma Dome. The Sounder service has run in just one direction — from Seattle in the mornings and to Seattle at the end of the day.
One irony is that the statewide supported trains, the Cascades, stop nearest at Tacoma Dome and yet skip Puyallup. As a “state” event, why isn’t the Fair enabling a connecting shuttle that can be used by folks from Bellingham to Vancouver WA?
Regardless, it looks to me that either a shuttle bus should run from Tacoma Dome or perhaps Cascades trains should have a special extra stop opened in Puyallup during the Fair. I’m not familiar with how quickly the latter could occur bureaucratically but if it could it looks like it could be useful. That would offer several times throughout the day to board trains going in either direction.
By the way, I noticed that Oregon State Fair has a shuttle bus to the Amtrak Cascades stop in Salem. And North Carolina has special temporary Amtrak station for its State Fair ( https://www.amtrak.com/stations/nsf)! Get with it, Washington!
Cascades runs twice a day each way in Oregon, three times if you include the much more expensive Coast Starlight. One Cascades trip each way runs in the morning and the other around sunset. This is not a practical way to get to the State Fair.
The Ambus (“Point”) runs five more trips each way, and they’re spaced better for the fair, so it can help. But the train is pretty useless and fairly expensive.
Yeah Tom. Since Cascades are less frequent south of Portland, I found the connection questionable.
Honestly I know nothing about the Oregon State Fair. It appears to only run less than two weeks. I just noticed that they mentioned a Cascades connecting shuttle service online.
That’s a “fair” point. The ST runs from what I’ve read have been historically targeted at peak weekend times. One or two special stops in Puyallup would be great. I’ll bet the Fair would chip in for the cost of “manning” the station. It would set the schedule back a bit but if you’re taking Amtrak you’re OK with it being late or you wouldn’t use it.
From the north:
Train 505 to the Fair
Train 506 for return.
Then I’d have to go to the Fair twice; once to ride Sounder and again to ride Cascades. It would be ultra deluxe if it could be on the new Aero trainset! Run Sounder two weekend days in Sept and have the Amtrak Fair Special cover the other two Saturdays. As a wise man once said, “Get with it Washington!”
I’m seeing online that the New York Stste Fair also has a temporary added stop. And several others like Texas have regular rail service with a station near the entrance.
Oh great, now I have to go to the fair 3X to ride all the trains ;-) Seriously, I’m close to retirement and taking a Coast Starlight to a CA State Fair would be a good excuse to ride the train. Actually I don’t need an excuse; riding the train is enough. But timing it with something else to see/do is a plus. Bucket List item is to buy a month/multi-month pass and just joy ride the rails. Maybe I’ll learn how to HoBo and catch the much more frequent freight trains :+)
The discussion of ways of getting to the fair calls to mind a rather grim memory of one of our visits. We lived out in the north and in those days, the 71 was through-routed from View Ridge to Federal Way on 99. That year (can’t recall which one), Metro offered a shuttle from the end of 71 down to the fair and back. Now the through-routing of the 71 had a bad impact on keeping to schedule, and I recall the shuttle dropping us back in Federal Way on the side of the highway where we waited about 35 minutes for a 71 to appear. Of course, we then had a single seat ride all the way home. Since the through-routing also played havoc with routine shorter disance user, we were not sorry to see it go. Commuting from the UW, some times we waited half an hour for a bus to appear. (The one side benefit in those days was that Andy Shiga’s sold warm humbows.)
“the 71 was through-routed from View Ridge to Federal Way on 99”
The 71 was through-routed with the 174? Ayayay! The 174 was the poster child of ultra-long milk runs, and no express segment anywhere. When I rode Metro in the 80s the 174 was too long and slow but it was decoupled from the 71. My routes were the 71/72/73 so I would have noticed that.
Once I spent a summer in Tacoma (1988), and I had to go back to the U-District to replace my glasses. There was no such thing as a Tacoma-Seattle express then, so I took the 500 to Federal Way and I the 194 express to downtown. Except I luckily encountered an out-of-service bus that was going straight to the U-District via I-5 so I got a magic carpet ride the whole way.
When I worked in Totem Lake I use to have to hike down to the 249 (RIP) to get to S. Kirkland P&R. Then grab whatever bus was going to Kirkland TC. I learned that Out Of Service 255 buses headed from Kirkland TC to Totem Lk TC to start a run back to Seattle would take 85th to 405 and if you asked nice you could get the “magic carpet ride”. I don’t know why connections like this aren’t a Metro Express policy?
I believe it is Metro policy for any bus to accept passengers when they are head to TERM or BASE.